First upgrades to improve handling

[StannisthMannis]

I’m interested in improving the overall handling characteristics of my ’19 RS3 without sacrificing much in terms of ride quality or reliability. The only things I’ve done to the car are squared 18x9” Neuspeed’s with PS4S and EMD lowering springs. I DD the car (currently at 12,000 mi) and likely won’t be taking it to the track any time soon.

I’ve done some research online but can’t seem to find a consensus as to what upgrades provide the biggest improvements to a stock car for the cost. I’m currently leaning towards stiffening the subframe and transmission mounts, as opposed to something like control/trailing arms or sway bars. Would doing this make sense on a car that will be kept mostly stock? I figure I can upgrade the suspension bushings down the road once the factory ones start to wear.

Any input is appreciated!

034 front subframe locking collars $132
034 rear subframe mount inserts & stretch bolts $137 + $28
034 upper & lower dogbone mount inserts $35 + $42
Total $374

[mike_TX]

I'm about to do the upper and lower dogbone inserts. I've read that adding rear subframe inserts help allot as well. Are you happy with the EMDs?


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[Cool_Breeze]

If I were to do it again, I'd go with camber plates first. Massive improvement in track-in and cornering, much more than the RSB/end links and rear subframe inserts that I did first

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[StannisthMannis]

I'm about to do the upper and lower dogbone inserts. I've read that adding rear subframe inserts help allot as well. Are you happy with the EMDs?


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Overall I am very happy with the EMD springs. Drop is noticeable but not super aggressive. Ride feels similar to stock. I might try the mag ride calibration I was quoted a very reasonable price.

If I were there do it again, I'd go with camber plates first. Massive improvement in track-in and cornering, much more than the RSB/end links and rear subframe inserts that I did first

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I forgot 034 makes fixed camber plates, thank you! These look like the way to go.

I wonder how they affect tread wear with normal street driving?

[mike_TX]

Ya I've heard good things about camber plates as they increase the camber past -1 I believe. However, just by lowering your car you already have achieved about -.8 camber. Also do note that you will increase the car's height a tad bit by adding those plates. That's the only reason I'm not inclined to add the plates cause I really want that lowered look with the springs, though this might be so minimal that prolly wouldn't be noticed.


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[Cool_Breeze]

Ya I've heard good things about camber plates as they increase the camber past -1 I believe. However, just by lowering your car you already have achieved about -.8 camber. Also do note that you will increase the car's height a tad bit by adding those plates. That's the only reason I'm not inclined to add the plates cause I really want that lowered look with the springs, though this might be so minimal that prolly wouldn't be noticed.

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Hmm, I didn't notice any change in ride height after the camber plates. But I also didn't measure it...

[mike_TX]

Hmm, I didn't notice any change in ride height after the camber plates. But I also didn't measure it...

Yea, it might be almost none or so minimal, its barely noticeable . In any case, I'm really tempted to put these on (034 camber plates) along with some lowering springs (H&R). Have you noticed any noticeable NVH from these plates?

[Cool_Breeze]

Yea, it might be almost none or so minimal, its barely noticeable . In any case, I'm really tempted to put these on (034 camber plates) along with some lowering springs (H&R). Have you noticed any noticeable NVH from these plates?

Nope, no noticable change in NVH!

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[Leonitus86]

Rear sway bar is legit. That was the one suspension mod that to "me" made the most difference in handling. made the car take the corners like crazy.

[mike_TX]

Rear sway bar is legit. That was the one suspension mod that to "me" made the most difference in handling. made the car take the corners like crazy.

Which brand rear sway bar did you get?

[StannisthMannis]

Ya I've heard good things about camber plates as they increase the camber past -1 I believe. However, just by lowering your car you already have achieved about -.8 camber. Also do note that you will increase the car's height a tad bit by adding those plates. That's the only reason I'm not inclined to add the plates cause I really want that lowered look with the springs, though this might be so minimal that prolly wouldn't be noticed.


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034 website says they provide an additional 1.4 degrees of negative camber at each of the front wheels.

Is anyone running the Euro Sport street camber kit? Looks like it may be a better option for those who don't track.

https://www.eurosportacc.com/products/18700k

[TheContrarian]

This is easy, increase camber.

[bucolic]

I have 034 RSB & endlinks installed & have noticed improvement, less unsettled motion going through corners, IMO.

I also have 034 rear subframe mounts & front subframe locking collar waiting to go on, ECE dogbone mount too.

Then I plan on doing Eibach Ground Control camber plates & lowering springs. Last, JXB rear trailing & control arm spherical bushings, I was thinking their front control arm spherical bushings too, but I might just do the SuperPro Duroball front LCA since the control arm itself seems like a more sturdy design with added negative camber.

Just looking to optimize handling & steering turn-in as much as possible. I want the most fun-to-drive RS3 I can have!

[MistahMahk]

Does anyone consider or have the 034 lowering springs on? If so, what's your opinion?

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[steven5210]

Rear sway bar is legit. That was the one suspension mod that to "me" made the most difference in handling. made the car take the corners like crazy.

Yep 100% on this. I got the H&R rear sway bars because no squeak so I won't have to maintain it.

[bucolic]

Does anyone consider or have the 034 lowering springs on? If so, what's your opinion?

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No first hand experience, but they have spring rates well matched for the RS3, or so I've been told. If just doing springs it would be the route I'd go. Other springs seem to be softer than ideal...

[Ross_T_Boss]

I'd actually go ahead with the rear trailing arms first, the improvement on my TTRS for 'fast road' driving was substantial with respect to turn-in/Corner entry and higher speed transitions. I'd get the JXB bushes. In my opinion, they are the weakest link at the rear of the car, which is far weaker than the front to start with... best start with the rear wheels able to keep something close to the set alignment under load.

Also I have MSS Track with MagRide (a good improvement but mostly to 'fix' the stilts look), and front/rear subframe inserts with dogbone (cant say any improvement but aim to avoid stock getting sloppy, seems to be working so far).

I plan to poly bush more of the rear and put a bit more camber up front, would love the JXB front bushes but in less of a rush now as it feel really responsive, connected and well balanced on the road as it is.

[mike_TX]

Does anyone consider or have the 034 lowering springs on? If so, what's your opinion?

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I've heard good things about their spring but do keep in mind that they don't go as low as some others such as H&R and MSS.


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[mike_TX]

Yep 100% on this. I got the H&R rear sway bars because no squeak so I won't have to maintain it.

What end links did you get? I've heard that spherical links cause noises.


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[amusegt1]

The biggest change for a stock car would be a rear sway bar. Easy to install or remove if you don't like it. Another big improvement would be camber plates, but it comes with added NVH.
Any upgraded mounts will increase NVH.

I had camber plates, springs, rear sway and f/r endlinks done all at the same time. The turn-in and overall balance is massively improved. Noticeable increase in NVH though.

[Rod Paine]

I am evidently missing something here, as the performance of my late build 2019 RS 3 has been very good after immediate installation of 245/40/18 Michelin A/S3+ tires on Neuspeed RSe10 18X8.5 inch wheels. Now after 11,317 miles fast back country roads runs and 4,632 miles normal transportation, for a total 15,939 miles I haven't found a need to make any further changes, other than our now worn tires.

My background is that I am 81 years old and have been running 'canyon roads' in southern CA since 1958 and the same now in northern VA since 1973 in many different performance vehicles (Corvette, Porsche, BMW, Volvo 123, highly modified Mini Cooper, Golf R) and now our 2019 Audi RS 3.

I am puzzled as to why so many of you are making suspension changes to your RS 3. What kind of driving are you doing and how many miles annually?

It's unclear as to what 'SPECIFICALLY' you're looking for in your Audi RS 3 road handling, to improve what handling deficiency? Few if any of you have actually specified what your RS 3 handling deficiency is that you want to correct? I for one would certainly appreciate knowing what specific issues you're grappling with, during fast back road RS 3 performance.

[NelsDMAX]

034 website says they provide an additional 1.4 degrees of negative camber at each of the front wheels.

Is anyone running the Euro Sport street camber kit? Looks like it may be a better option for those who don't track.

https://www.eurosportacc.com/products/18700k

I am running the Euro Sport kit. Added 0.9 deg neg camber, no NVH. Currently sitting at 1.9 neg camber in front, 1.65 neg camber rear.
Also running 034 rear trailing arms. All bushings for rear subframe, and Eurocode rear brace (in the trunk).
Staggered setup (265/30R19 Front & 235/35R19 Rear) Michelin Cup 2 tires. 18x9.5 wheels up front, 18x9.0 rear.
Lowered all the way down on MSS Track fronts, Sport rears.

Car corners extremely well, easily achieving 1.5 G cornering without blinking an eye (believe the cornering G is higher but dash scale only reads to 1.5)
A portion of this ability comes from using a stiffer wall tire like the Cup 2, however the stiffer sidewall makes for a slightly harsher ride than say a PS4S tire.
The Euro Sport kit and the 034 trailing arms are the biggest thing you can do make a very good street/track car.
Tire wear with heavy cornering is just right, without any wear occurring onto the sidewall (caused by the sidewall rolling over...)

[bucolic]

I am evidently missing something here, as the performance of my late build 2019 RS 3 has been very good after immediate installation of 245/40/18 Michelin A/S3+ tires on Neuspeed RSe10 18X8.5 inch wheels. Now after 11,317 miles fast back country roads runs and 4,632 miles normal transportation, for a total 15,939 miles I haven't found a need to make any further changes, other than our now worn tires.

My background is that I am 81 years old and have been running 'canyon roads' in southern CA since 1958 and the same now in northern VA since 1973 in many different performance vehicles (Corvette, Porsche, BMW, Volvo 123, highly modified Mini Cooper, Golf R) and now our 2019 Audi RS 3.

I am puzzled as to why so many of you are making suspension changes to your RS 3. What kind of driving are you doing and how many miles annually?

It's unclear as to what 'SPECIFICALLY' you're looking for in your Audi RS 3 road handling, to improve what handling deficiency? Few if any of you have actually specified what your RS 3 handling deficiency is that you want to correct? I for one would certainly appreciate knowing what specific issues you're grappling with, during fast back road RS 3 performance.

RS3 handling leaves room for improvement, brakes too. C&D Lightning Lap testing wasn't impressive a VIR. Comparable cars ran significantly faster.

A few suspension upgrades, better tires, brakes and now you've got a little track monster!

[steven5210]

What end links did you get? I've heard that spherical links cause noises.


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These are the ones I got. You definitely won't get as great of performance by getting these over the spherical links but I'd rather not deal with the noises. You can see xlr8's post on the differences between the two on this thread https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...s-for-endlinks

[TheContrarian]

RS3 handling leaves room for improvement, brakes too. C&D Lightning Lap testing wasn't impressive a VIR. Comparable cars ran significantly faster.

These tests are bogus because they are all running on completely different tires.

How did they get such a good time for the TTRS? They showed up with the car wearing Trofeo R tires. The whole thing is a giant scam.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2018/

[ketchupfreak]

I am evidently missing something here, as the performance of my late build 2019 RS 3 has been very good after immediate installation of 245/40/18 Michelin A/S3+ tires on Neuspeed RSe10 18X8.5 inch wheels. Now after 11,317 miles fast back country roads runs and 4,632 miles normal transportation, for a total 15,939 miles I haven't found a need to make any further changes, other than our now worn tires.

My background is that I am 81 years old and have been running 'canyon roads' in southern CA since 1958 and the same now in northern VA since 1973 in many different performance vehicles (Corvette, Porsche, BMW, Volvo 123, highly modified Mini Cooper, Golf R) and now our 2019 Audi RS 3.

I am puzzled as to why so many of you are making suspension changes to your RS 3. What kind of driving are you doing and how many miles annually?

It's unclear as to what 'SPECIFICALLY' you're looking for in your Audi RS 3 road handling, to improve what handling deficiency? Few if any of you have actually specified what your RS 3 handling deficiency is that you want to correct? I for one would certainly appreciate knowing what specific issues you're grappling with, during fast back road RS 3 performance.

The 2 main specific deficiencies that I have noticed immediately on spirited canyon driving is the understeer and the floaty feeling through fast sweepers which may go hand in hand. This lends to low confidence when driving fast. Lowering springs (EMD then MSS) and a EMD rear sway bar GREATLY improved this. I'm also on a PS4S square setup.

[bucolic]

These tests are bogus because they are all running on completely different tires.

How did they get such a good time for the TTRS? They showed up with the car wearing Trofeo R tires. The whole thing is a giant scam.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2018/

Hmmm, that is odd. I think/thought C&D always says they just run what the car comes equipped with from the factory...

I do love the LL issue, and C&D analysis in general. They seem to be one of the more reliable sources of information regarding performance numbers, IMO.

[Rod Paine]

The 2 main specific deficiencies that I have noticed immediately on spirited canyon driving is the understeer and the floaty feeling through fast sweepers which may go hand in hand. This lends to low confidence when driving fast. Lowering springs (EMD then MSS) and a EMD rear sway bar GREATLY improved this. I'm also on a PS4S square setup.

Interesting... I am now at 11,317 FAST country back roads runs, 4,622 normal daily driving and other then the immediate change to 245/40/18 on 18x8.5 light weight alloy wheels, our 2019 RS 3 has delivered very good handling indeed. I have no complaints based on my 64 years of such vehicle use, most all of them European brand automobiles. Maybe my 'older' age is now masking something that I can't feel versus when I was 20 years old, but I really doubt it.

EDIT - Just got back from a 123.6 mile back roads run, on this very warm 67°F beautiful winter day. Our fast back roads mileage is now 11,440.6 miles. Our total RS 3 mileage is now 16,062.6 miles.

[S3DUDE]

I only did neuspeed RS-10 18x8" wheels and Bridgestone RE-71 with 200 thredwear on 255/35/18 and the car feels very planted. My ride is now much better, the ride is not as harsh. I switch between driving the wife's S5 on factory optional 20', sport package rear sport diff, sticky tires and the RS3 feels significantly more firm on the turns.

[mike_TX]

Interesting... I am now at 11,317 FAST country back roads runs, 4,622 normal daily driving and other then the immediate change to 245/40/18 on 18x8.5 light weight alloy wheels, our 2019 RS 3 has delivered very good handling indeed. I have no complaints based on my 64 years of such vehicle use, most all of them European brand automobiles. Maybe my 'older' age is now masking something that I can't feel versus when I was 20 years old, but I really doubt it.

EDIT - Just got back from a 123.6 mile back roads run, on this very warm 67°F beautiful winter day. Our fast back roads mileage is now 11,440.6 miles. Our total RS 3 mileage is now 16,062.6 miles.

I concur with you, that the RS3 in stock form handles really well. I was so impressed with the handling of my S3 that it made me get the RS and its even better with perfect weight balance compared to the S3. However, some slight tweaks here and there can further it I think. Thats the reason why I'm about to get a RSB put on it. I was seriously thinking about lowering springs but I've ditched that idea for now because I really think that the magride works in perfect harmony with the stock springs and my area has lots of crappy roads.

[mike_TX]

I only did neuspeed RS-10 18x8" wheels and Bridgestone RE-71 with 200 thredwear on 255/35/18 and the car feels very planted. My ride is now much better, the ride is not as harsh. I switch between driving the wife's S5 on factory optional 20', sport package rear sport diff, sticky tires and the RS3 feels significantly more firm on the turns.

I test drove a S5 twice and hated how it handled compared to my ride at that time (S3), so I ditched the idea right away. I view the S4/S5 as more of a GT car, definitely not in the same league as the S3/RS3.

[StannisthMannis]

I am running the Euro Sport kit. Added 0.9 deg neg camber, no NVH. Currently sitting at 1.9 neg camber in front, 1.65 neg camber rear.
Also running 034 rear trailing arms. All bushings for rear subframe, and Eurocode rear brace (in the trunk).
Staggered setup (265/30R19 Front & 235/35R19 Rear) Michelin Cup 2 tires. 18x9.5 wheels up front, 18x9.0 rear.
Lowered all the way down on MSS Track fronts, Sport rears.

Car corners extremely well, easily achieving 1.5 G cornering without blinking an eye (believe the cornering G is higher but dash scale only reads to 1.5)
A portion of this ability comes from using a stiffer wall tire like the Cup 2, however the stiffer sidewall makes for a slightly harsher ride than say a PS4S tire.
The Euro Sport kit and the 034 trailing arms are the biggest thing you can do make a very good street/track car.
Tire wear with heavy cornering is just right, without any wear occurring onto the sidewall (caused by the sidewall rolling over...)

Did you buy the pre assembled Euro Sport kit or did you install them yourself?

I'm considering doing just the camber kit for now. Would this alone be a worthwhile upgrade to my current setup if I don't do anything else for the time being?

Should I plan to replace the upper strut bearings with the install or is that unnecessary?

[Cool_Breeze]

Interesting... I am now at 11,317 FAST country back roads runs, 4,622 normal daily driving and other then the immediate change to 245/40/18 on 18x8.5 light weight alloy wheels, our 2019 RS 3 has delivered very good handling indeed. I have no complaints based on my 64 years of such vehicle use, most all of them European brand automobiles. Maybe my 'older' age is now masking something that I can't feel versus when I was 20 years old, but I really doubt it.

EDIT - Just got back from a 123.6 mile back roads run, on this very warm 67°F beautiful winter day. Our fast back roads mileage is now 11,440.6 miles. Our total RS 3 mileage is now 16,062.6 miles.

First off, props to you!! Second, I felt the same until I took the RS3 to the track bone stock. Body roll was significant and major front push. Laguna Seca shredded my outer front tires in only a few runs and the brakes cooked. So for me, all the basic mods addressed this (better pads, RSB/endlinks, subframe/dogbone inserts and camber plates) and I'm happy w/it on track or AX. Agree that for canyon carving, the stock RS3 is all you'd ever need, though these basic mods make it even better!

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[NelsDMAX]

Did you buy the pre assembled Euro Sport kit or did you install them yourself?

I'm considering doing just the camber kit for now. Would this alone be a worthwhile upgrade to my current setup if I don't do anything else for the time being?

Should I plan to replace the upper strut bearings with the install or is that unnecessary?

I did by the kit and installed myself (with some help from my brother, as and extra pair of hands makes installing the pucks into the upper rubber strut easier)

Yes.

Depends on how many miles you have already. I only had about 10k when I installed and I did not use new ones. The original ones were in perfect shape.


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[HHughes1]

These tests are bogus because they are all running on completely different tires.

How did they get such a good time for the TTRS? They showed up with the car wearing Trofeo R tires. The whole thing is a giant scam.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2018/

Corsa is nowhere close to the Trofeo or Cup 2's for that matter. In my humble opinion the LL comparison is the best journalist evaluation out there. The Grand course lessens the horsepower disparity slightly and the drivers are actually pretty damn good for amateurs. They are very transparent regarding tire selection being based solely on what's available directly from the dealership. Surprised though that you can drive off a MB lot with a CLA AMG shod with actual Trofeo R's !!! Also surprised that the Supra is only available with PSS ??

[StannisthMannis]

After giving it some more thought I'm now leaning towards the following

-Euro Sport street camber kit
-034 upper and lower dogbone inserts
-JXB Performance spherical trailing arms

I believe these parts together would address some of the biggest issues with the factory setup. While my OCD is kicking in for using separate brands for each part, I think they are the best options respectively for my criteria.

I'm still exploring trailing arm options though. Not really interested in poly. I think the BFI solid rubber bushings look interesting but they're only available for the front control arms. Is anyone here familiar with the Verkline spherical trailing arms? They're a bit less expensive than 034. They also just released an adjustable trailing arm for lowered suspensions but they're super expensive!

[Rod Paine]

First off, props to you!! Second, I felt the same until I took the RS3 to the track bone stock. Body roll was significant and major front push. Laguna Seca shredded my outer front tires in only a few runs and the brakes cooked. So for me, all the basic mods addressed this (better pads, RSB/endlinks, subframe/dogbone inserts and camber plates) and I'm happy w/it on track or AX. Agree that for canyon carving, the stock RS3 is all you'd ever need, though these basic mods make it even better!

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What size and brand tires are you running? The factory 19-inch tires lasted ONLY two days of fast canyon running! The switch to the 18-inch configuration has been bullet proof for over 11k miles! I don't know anyone running these fast canyon roads on 19" configuration... they've all involved 18" configurations, typically 245/40/18 size inorder to survive bad road surface hits, that the 19" 235/35/19 doesn't survive!

[Cool_Breeze]

What size and brand tires are you running? The factory 19-inch tires lasted ONLY two days of fast canyon running! The switch to the 18-inch configuration has been bullet proof for over 11k miles! I don't know anyone running these fast canyon roads on 19" configuration... they've all involved 18" configurations, typically 245/40/18 size inorder to survive bad road surface hits, that the 19" 235/35/19 doesn't survive!

I'm running Michelin PS4S's on the stock 19" staggered config. They're amazing on street and decent on track. But I'm in northern cali where roads aren't too horrible. Agree that in areas w/crappy roads 18s are probably must!

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[NelsDMAX]

After giving it some more thought I'm now leaning towards the following

-Euro Sport street camber kit
-034 upper and lower dogbone inserts
-JXB Performance spherical trailing arms

I believe these parts together would address some of the biggest issues with the factory setup. While my OCD is kicking in for using separate brands for each part, I think they are the best options respectively for my criteria.

I'm still exploring trailing arm options though. Not really interested in poly. I think the BFI solid rubber bushings look interesting but they're only available for the front control arms. Is anyone here familiar with the Verkline spherical trailing arms? They're a bit less expensive than 034. They also just released an adjustable trailing arm for lowered suspensions but they're super expensive!

This combo will be very eye opening and you will be very pleased with the results.

[Cool_Breeze]

This combo will be very eye opening and you will be very pleased with the results.

The trailing arm upgrade is mostly noticable in bumps around high speed corners (e.g Sonoma Turn 1). Though significantly better in that case.

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