Ignition Timing Pulling on Stock A3

[spacecase]

Was looking at my Ignition Timing Advance for Cylinder#1 through an OBD app and saw it was pulling up to 15 degrees at idle. Even while running I was seeing some -10 degree drops at WOT and casual driving. I plan on tuning my car soon but I still have warranty left so I want to make sure I fix any underlying issues while I can. Should this be a cause for concern? Car has no tuning on it and has a TIP and aFe intake. I am getting an accessport soon so hopefully I can see how all 4 cylinders are doing and log it but seeing this much degree change on one cylinder has me worried.

[spacecase]

Check engine light come on?

Nope no CEL so far but the reason why I checked is because the power felt inconsistent.

driving around some more I was seeing -5 to -7 degree pretty consistently.

[spacecase]

Was using OBDFusion, but also checked on Car Scanner and numbers were the same. Went for another drive and have more accurate numbers. At Idle fully warmed up the timing goes from -4 to -12. When coasting at 60-80 MPH without foot on the pedal it is around -4 to -8. When I go WOT the lowest I've seen is around -5 degrees but it hovers from -1 to -3. It still ramps up as RPMs go up. Spoke with my buddy about this and he said that doesn't seem normal

[Pdisguise]

What fuel?

[spacecase]

What fuel?

Shell 91 gas. Live in California so all I have access to

[aaronc7]

IIRC this car does run pretty low timing at idle and general cruise...way less than I was used to seeing with other cars in the past.

hard to say what's going on without logging knock. Which I doubt OBD fusion will display unless it's an app that specifically is defining vehicle-specific PIDs for this car.

[spacecase]

IIRC this car does run pretty low timing at idle and general cruise...way less than I was used to seeing with other cars in the past.

hard to say what's going on without logging knock. Which I doubt OBD fusion will display unless it's an app that specifically is defining vehicle-specific PIDs for this car.

That makes me feel a little better, but just seems weird as I verified while in Park or Neutral timing is only pulled 2 to 3 degrees it while in drive or reverse it’s pulling 10 to 12 degrees. OBD Does not log knock so I’m waiting on accessport to gather log data. I’m going to swap out my turbo inlet back to stock and verify everything is tight at the intake to see if that might be the issue.

[spacecase]

No Check Engine light?

No stored DCT codes?

(Does your app give your this feature? Reliably? Accuritly?)

IMO...every thing is fine.

Unless you can produce documents/manuals from factory Audi stating otherwise.



Get VCDS

I do have an app and the only DCTs I get are a Quintessence current (no idea wtf this is) and a failed actuator valve on my right defroster. I want to think that everything is fine but I've had some weird power inconsistency that made me think I was crazy.

But you're right, if no CEL or codes are being thrown me and the Audi dealer will be chasing ghosts. Just weird to see -10 timing at idle and it improves when placed into drive or neutral. Will give updates when I swap things back to stock (TIP, panel filter).

[spacecase]

- - - Updated - - -

Ok..you say -10 timing is weird...what is it suppose to read?

You have factory repair manual with what its suppose to read? Its range + or - ?

What component or engine sensor is causing this?

According to what I read online it seems like timing should stay above or around 0. Some timing pulls to -3 seem to be acceptable. This obviously varies from car to car, but the consensus that I got is if timing is pulled more than 6 degrees that could be a cause for concern. Once I get my accessport I can monitor knock and see if it's a true issue. I'm also doing a compression test just to get baseline numbers before my tune and can see if anything is up then.

[spacecase]

The ECU will have a DTC stored in it for any timing malfunction outside the rage an VW engineer has created for that particular system...its call Malfunction Criteria
and Threshold Value. Timing exceeds these parameters...DTC.

No DTC...system has not exceeded the Malfunction Criteria and Threshold Value.

That's great to know thank you for sharing that information. Makes me feel a lot better. Will post results if anything changes when I swap out the TIP and do compression testing.

[morris39]

Was using OBDFusion, but also checked on Car Scanner and numbers were the same. Went for another drive and have more accurate numbers. At Idle fully warmed up the timing goes from -4 to -12. When coasting at 60-80 MPH without foot on the pedal it is around -4 to -8. When I go WOT the lowest I've seen is around -5 degrees but it hovers from -1 to -3. It still ramps up as RPMs go up. Spoke with my buddy about this and he said that doesn't seem normal

My scans/logs values (VCDS) for M15 CYFB motor might be a useful reference. Average of ignition timing angle delay adjustment/dynamic ...... reports 14/2.25 deg. I have not logged cylinder delays individually (no reason). There are 0 DTCs, 0 cumulative misfires, 0 Pre-ignition suppression counts in 36k miles. Calculated HP from mass air flow matches the advertised.
If you have a baseline reference for mass air flow or torque you can compare and potentially rule out problems. Even if you do not have baselines comparing measured air flow or torque against advertised. If your scanner has a parameter for average/dynamic delay angles but no DTCs then things are likely as they should be.

[spacecase]

My scans/logs values (VCDS) for M15 CYFB motor might be a useful reference. Average of ignition timing angle delay adjustment/dynamic ...... reports 14/2.25 deg. I have not logged cylinder delays individually (no reason). There are 0 DTCs, 0 cumulative misfires, 0 Pre-ignition suppression counts in 36k miles. Calculated HP from mass air flow matches the advertised.
If you have a baseline reference for mass air flow or torque you can compare and potentially rule out problems. Even if you do not have baselines comparing measured air flow or torque against advertised. If your scanner has a parameter for average/dynamic delay angles but no DTCs then things are likely as they should be.

How did your timing look under idle? Does yours pull more than 3 degrees? Thanks for sharing your numbers!

[morris39]

How did your timing look under idle? Does yours pull more than 3 degrees? Thanks for sharing your numbers!

From Blockmap of Module 01:
IDE00155 Timing angle retardation cylinder 1 0 ° (he same for the other cylinders)
IDE00021 Engine speed 798 /min
IDE00025 Coolant temperature 105 °C

[spacecase]

From Blockmap of Module 01:
IDE00155 Timing angle retardation cylinder 1 0 ° (he same for the other cylinders)
IDE00021 Engine speed 798 /min
IDE00025 Coolant temperature 105 °C

Hm, so it doesn't look like my 10 degree retardation during idle is normal. Gah, looks like I'll be under the hood this weekend.

Adding Screen shots of my readings

https://imgur.com/a/VDxBkcB

https://imgur.com/yDh9iAX

[morris39]

Hm, so it doesn't look like my 10 degree retardation during idle is normal. Gah, looks like I'll be under the hood this weekend.

Adding Screen shots of my readings

https://imgur.com/a/VDxBkcB

https://imgur.com/yDh9iAX

I have no knowledge how your scanner works but something seems not right. The posted freeze frame does not appear to be at idle rpm or with vehicle stationary. I would verify scan results before making further decisions.

[spacecase]

I ended up swapping the TIP and aFe intake and made sure everything was tight. Only thing I noticed was a bit of oil on the bottom of the o-ring on the turbo side of the inlet. After swapping everything it looks like my problems didn't go away. If anything the timing seems worse.

https://imgur.com/a/08W9Wlj

That is a live graph and the dips are when I'm off throttle. What would cause timing to pull only when im off throttle??

[spacecase]

What timing do you have during idle Miktip? And I don't think accuracy will do anything. I'm pretty confident if I go buy VCDS it'll just give me near the same numbers since it's reading data from the same sensor. I've used two different apps and both numbers outputted were very similar.

[spacecase]

I dont find random apps to check my timing unless I have a DTC or CEL! Why fix something that isnt broke!

I have VCDS! I know it works! I use it all the time. I will use it now!

Oh look! I have stored DTC codes and no CEL!



Does your app do this?

I honestly don't get where you're going with this. Are you trying to sell me on VCDS or try to prove a point that I never asked for? And yes, I do have apps that let me code and do basic adaptations. Yes my app stores DTCs and codes, I told you them a few posts back. I can check readiness with my app. I have already debated with the idea of buying VCDS and I decided not to. You're more worried about answering a question that I never asked. I only asked what your timing is during idle. I really don't want to argue anything, I'm just trying to get answers to my question. I appreciate your past replies but it's getting tiring with you repeating literally the same questions over and over. You don't need tech data to know having timing pull in the double digits is bad. There's a poster who's timing is at 0 during idle. I'm not trying to start an argument with you even if you seem to be chasing one. Instead of sounding condescending and screenshotting your app, why not just screen shot your engine timing at idle? That's all I really need but thanks for showing me all your error codes

[spacecase]

This is what I am getting at:

Do you have tech data from the factory manual that clearly states exactly what the timing numbers are suppose to be for your specific engine?

No?

Then you write: You don't need tech data to know having timing pull in the double digits is bad.

So you dont even have tech data to KNOW what the timing is suppose to be...thats what I'm getting at!

Your ECU knows what its suppose to be...and you have no DTC or CEL... yet insist its wrong! WOW!



Good thing the mechanics at the dealerships have factory repair manual with data they need to verify and fix!

Good thing airplane mechanics have manuals to fix airplanes!

You are lost...

Go get a job as a mechanic...then tell your boss you dont need manuals.

Lol I'm going to start ignoring your post because you really have nothing productive to add. I am literally asking in this post what other people are at so I can get a gauge of what timing should be. If you searched instead of trying to argue in this post you'll see people bringing up timing pulls as a negative thing. Are you saying that an issue cant occur with a car unless it has a CEL? Are you saying that you HAVE to have a DTC or CEL if something feels off to your car? Does your car throw a CEL when a strut bearing is about to fail? You keep dodging my question. Your wall of text means nothing to me, I just want to know what your timing looked at during idle. I posted this to get answers and learn but instead you post nonsense. You're extremely condescending for no reason on a forum where people come to ask questions. Don't be an ass man.

[spacecase]

Notice no one responded to your posts except to say your app is AFU...

I have nothing productive to add cause I wont fall into your delusion of your timing issue!

I ask you if you have a manual that states what the timing is suppose to be and you write you dont need a manual!

Ignorance is bliss! Enjoy!

Lol man you're talking about a post where I posted the wrong screen shot. Would you like me to post the right one where my car was at idle? Notice the guy responded to my question with numbers? You're STILL hung up over an app. Just be quiet and delete/edit your posts some more.

[MikTip]

Go trade your Audi in for a Schwinn bicycle.

That way the only "timing" you will need to worry about is your feet going up and down on the pedals!

[spacecase]

Go trade your Audi in for a Schwinn bicycle.

That way the only "timing" you will need to worry about is your feet going up and down on the pedals!

Lol just quoting you in case you try and delete more of your immature posts. Jesus man you've been a member since 2004, yet it seems that's the year you were born. Dying of laughter right now.

[morris39]

Do you have tech data from the factory manual that clearly states exactly what the timing numbers are suppose to be for your specific engine?

For my CFYB motor the only reference I can find in the manual for ignition timing is a DTC:13EA00 Cold Start Ignition Timing Performance Off Idle. I am guessing that there is guided procedures in ODIS for detail.
Your VCDS Auto Scan is quoted with incredible number of DTCs. Wow just wow unless these nuisance ones which you didn't bother to clear.

[spacecase]

Dont you have some timing ghosts to chase on your car? Thats the real joke! Hahahhahaha! Maybe you could write your own manual? "How to chase ghosts in your car" by SpaceCadet
Be a best seller Im sure!

Don't you have a life to live? I can tell you don't have much else to do than argue with people over a car forum. I can tell by the way you argue and delete your past posts that youre the space cadet. Hope you enjoy your life outside of forums! Don't keep yourself too busy posting and deleting right after!