switch engine off and check oil level.

[Riley97392]

i have a 2009 a4 non quattro, about a week ago i got an alert saying switch engine off and check oil level. ive scoured the forum and cant find any actual answers to how to solve this problem. ive changed the oil twice, new filters, and installed a new brown and blue sensor. the warning only comes up when the car has reached operating temperatures, and only when the car is stopped or im slowing down to a stop. i changed the oil again yesterday with an oil that was recommended on another thread and the problem went away for the rest of the day, the mmi showed the oil level around 80%, however today the warning began showing again, and when i opened the hood to reset the level sensors reading and read it again, it showed the bar all the way at the top. the car isnt making any weird noises, no knocks or anything, this beep every time i stop however is just so goddamn annoying and if there is something really wrong with it id like to get it fixed

[BradyBoi55]

I have had this problem before. Either your engine is burning oil profusely or its a small glitch in the system. The way I fixed this issues was get a scan tool and clear the codes. It should get rid of the low oil level light. But what i suggest you do is buy a dip stick for that engine. I bought one for my 2.0t because it doesn't come stock from the factory with one. Its a good cheap investment to make sure you have the correct amount of oil. Also make sure its not a low oil pressure light. That would be catastrophic. Hope this helps!

[Riley97392]

Also make sure its not a low oil pressure light. That would be catastrophic. Hope this helps!

this is whats been confusing me the most, from what ive been reading the yellow light is what comes on when the pressure is low saying shut engine off, oil pressure low, correct? the warning ive been getting is the red one where it says shut engine off and check oil. ive just ordered a new pcv valve because i checked the codes and i was getting the p2187 code and ive read a few people say that the vacuum caused by a bad pcv valve could be causing the loss in pressure once the engine warms all the way up. it should get here within the week so if that fixes it I'll come back and let yall know

[BradyBoi55]

a very easy way to check if the pcv is working properly is to remove the oil cap while it is running. If there is a good amount of vacuum it is in working order. If not your pcv has failed. The car should skip and stutter while it is removed because it is a big vacuum leak.

[Smac770]

There's two yellow oil can lights, one for oil getting low, add some when you can. The other for too much oil, remove some. Both have the wavy line under the can, indicating the message is about oil level.
There's two red oil can lights, one for oil is too low, add some now. This has the wavy line under the can, indicating the message is about oil level.
The other does not have the wavy line, and comes with the message "turn the engine off now". This is about the low oil pressure switch not active, meaning oil pressure at that point is below .7 bar (appears manufacturing tolerances allow the switch point to be anywhere between .55 and .85 bar).
Most likely you're dealing with some kind of internal issue impacting oil flow in some manner. Maybe it's the pickup screen, maybe it's the cam bridge screen, maybe it's the balance shaft screens, maybe it's the oil pump itself.
If it were my engine, I'd get some kind of oil pressure gauge tap to place between the engine and the low pressure switch so I could see factual oil pressure movement as I drove. Keep in mind the switch is M10, not NPT or such.

[Smac770]

I did not have any red oil pressure light during either time my PCV diaphragm failed. Maybe if the PCV fails in some other manner, stuck breather valve or such?

[Riley97392]

I'll try dropping the oil pan this weekend and inspect the screen and, im really hoping that isnt the issue though. the oil pan on these cars seems like an incredible pain in the ass to get off.

[BradyBoi55]

I wouldnt suggest to drop the oil pan and see if its working properly. You will have to either loosten/drop the subframe. Try to get a hold of a top tier scan tool to test the different sensors. Most shops allow a free scan so maybe just ask if they can test it with the scan tool. It should only take accouple seconds.

[Theiceman]

I thought you could drop the lower pan on a B8 without issue. Maybe not.

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[Riley97392]

The oddest thing is it doesn’t happen consistently anymore. I’m almost convinced it’s a clogged screen. When I changed the oil yesterday I put an engine flush in and let it run for the specified time before draining and putting the new oil in, then for the rest of the day it didn’t give me the warning at all, and then today on my way to autozone it went off on my way there, but on the drive back it didn’t come on at all at any of the stops. I saw a post earlier about someone who was able to clean the screen on the pickup tube without having to drop the pan with a wire brush he clipped the bristles down on and a flashlight aimed into the drain plug hole so I’m gonna try that and see if it helps since it’s a bit less time intensive and less likely to cause more damage than I know how to fix. I’m going to the dealership tomorrow to see if they’ll scan it for me and maybe hook up the pressure gauge and give me a rough idea of what it could be

[Smac770]

The correct procedure includes removal of the crossbrace, the stabilizer bar, and unbolting the steering rack to lower it 4 inches. So the steering rack rather than the subframe, but that's still far from easy.
And all 19 bolts have to be replaced, as well as the gasket remade, etc. So also far from a no cost inspection. Then again, Audi built unnecessary cost into inspecting anything on this engine.

[FR_A4]

The correct procedure includes removal of the crossbrace, the stabilizer bar, and unbolting the steering rack to lower it 4 inches. So the steering rack rather than the subframe, but that's still far from easy.
And all 19 bolts have to be replaced, as well as the gasket remade, etc. So also far from a no cost inspection. Then again, Audi built unnecessary cost into inspecting anything on this engine.

Steering rack bolts are a biotch. Also should be replaced but my local dealer doesn’t replace them.

[gt854t5]

Hey Guys- any solutions/update on this issue???
I recently started having the same problem. Prior to the "stop engine and check oil level" warning, I was having the "do not exceed 3500rpm warning" and DTCs for oil pressure switches. I have replaced the blue & red sensors/switches; the oil pressure control valve and the oil filter retaining post. Performed an oil/filter change after. AFTER all that was done, the red oil lamp waring stated popping up occasionally. I have an ECS dip-stick and it says I have enough oil; also the MMI reading is at Full and when I power on the car (but not start engine) the gauge in center says "oil level OK" and shows just below MAX. Today, I replaced the diaphragm in the PCV (the old one was brittle but not broken); 2 hrs after same issue; so I believe its not PCV related.
I'm hearing all sorts of possibilities: Oil pump could be failing; crankshaft/camshaft issues. My main question: Is it ok to drive with this occasional warning? I plan to have car checked out by another indie shop for oil pressure reading. Hoping for the best; thanks for any suggestions!!

[Theiceman]

If it's oil pressure issues you are having you should have it checked with a gauge against spec.
On this engine it seems the balance shafts are the number one cause of oil pressure issues.

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[chuckb825]

I'm running into same issue with oil warning. I have 09 A4 2.0t. I replaced the balance shafts, oil pump, oil sensors brown and blue, oil level sensor and I have dipstick and it's full but I get red warning telling me to stop engine and check oil then I get Rev limiter max 4k. I know the Rev limiter is cause of the supposed low oil pressure. I removed oil pressure sensor and hooked oil pressure gauge and at idle its like 30psi and running it up to 3k the oil pressure climbs up to 50psi. So I know the oil pressure isn't a problem. I do have this engine built pretty far JE racing pistons and bored to 83mm Mahle 700HP rods K04 turbo and other mods. When the light warning first came on I tore engine back apart and replaced the balance shafts oil pump and level sensor. But after putting it back together I'm still getting the warnings. Then I tried the gauge to make sure I had good oil pressure cause I have 3500 in the engine and don't wanna blow it up. Here is a picture I have circled this one sensor but I can't seem to find out what it's for does anyone know?? And have any ideas what else I can check to see what's causing this issue. I've replaced alot of parts.

[chuckb825]

I'm running into same issue with oil warning. I have 09 A4 2.0t. I replaced the balance shafts, oil pump, oil sensors brown and blue, oil level sensor and I have dipstick and it's full but I get red warning telling me to stop engine and check oil then I get Rev limiter max 4k. I know the Rev limiter is cause of the supposed low oil pressure. I removed oil pressure sensor and hooked oil pressure gauge and at idle its like 30psi and running it up to 3k the oil pressure climbs up to 50psi. So I know the oil pressure isn't a problem. I do have this engine built pretty far JE racing pistons and bored to 83mm Mahle 700HP rods K04 turbo and other mods. When the light warning first came on I tore engine back apart and replaced the balance shafts oil pump and level sensor. But after putting it back together I'm still getting the warnings. Then I tried the gauge to make sure I had good oil pressure cause I have 3500 in the engine and don't wanna blow it up. Here is a picture I have circled this one sensor but I can't seem to find out what it's for does anyone know?? And have any ideas what else I can check to see what's causing this issue. I've replaced alot of parts.

Sorry having issue trying to attach pic. On the driver's side of engine down in the bottom where the upper oil pan is where it Angles out there is a sensor that faces down what is that sensor?

[chuckb825]

[Smac770]

The system is not a complicated one. It's two passive toggle switches that ground a signal line so the ECM sees current flow and knows the switch sees pressure of at least X value.

There's the reduced oil pressure switch (brown) that toggles around .7 bar. This is the one that will give you the "turn it off now" warning.
There's the oil pressure switch (blue) that toggles around 2.55 bar. This is the one that will give you the "don't go past 4k" warning.

As for your pic, the system is very limited. It accepts nothing but pure basic JPG. So not sure what you're referencing. There's the oil level/temp sensor on the bottom of the oil pan, then there's the mode actuator for the oil pump on the front left of the oil pan.

You should be monitoring the values reported by the ECM using a tool like VCDS to analyze this. If the ECM is commanding high pressure mode from the oil pump (activation of oil pressure switch valve = 0), then the ECM expects to see both oil pressure switches activated (status of oil pressure switches = 3). If the ECM is commanding low pressure mode from the oil pump (activation = 1), then the ECM expects to see just the low pressure switch active (status = 1). A status of 0 means neither switch is seeing sufficient pressure to activate, and a status of 2 means only the high pressure switch is reporting active. That would seem to imply a failure of the reduced oil pressure switch or the wiring between.

Idle, you should measure 1.2-2.0 bar. Holding 2k rpm, you should measure 1.6-2.2 bar. Holding just under 4k rpm, you should measure 3.0-4.0 bar. The oil pump is shifted to high pressure mode at 3500 rpm; it's also activated during cold start, etc.

[duttyone6]

Enjoying this read, as I have many others concerning this topic. 2011 A4 2.0T bought with 55k. Audi rebuild under class action suit at 90k. Currently at 160k with 15k on IE stage two. Epc do not exceed 4k has been around so long I do not recall its first appearance. I have tried all the know remedies without a solution. Definitely will devote some time with my Ross tech and follow smac's well worded write up. Thank you! I expect the engine to be tired and likely the reason I am seeing a light. I will not part ways with this car but this engine does not seem worth the hassle. Patiently waiting for another member to ls swap his a4 and waiting for the day my baby overclocks.

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[Smac770]

There could be other causes for the 4k message, if there's an issue with the exhaust cam VVL adjustment, etc. EPC is electronic power control, throttle-by-wire management. So not really tied to the oil pressure. Also, with a tune, anything is possible. You need a scan for DTCs of the whole car while the EPC issue is active, along with checking the state of the oil switches vs the activation of the oil pump when over 3500rpm. Load flaps is another value to check, specified vs actual; they shift at 3000rpm, the exhaust VVL shifts at 3100rpm.

Someone in Europe is working on an LS swap into their B8. Not the most pain free process it seems to work out the engine speed comms. I'd be perfectly happy with a 3.0T supercharged swap.

[Theiceman]

I bet he is trying to show the switch over solenoud. That is mounted just above the oil pan. Not sure what it's official name is

Oh just read smacs post. Oil pressure switch valve, I was close..

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[duttyone6]

There could be other causes for the 4k message, if there's an issue with the exhaust cam VVL adjustment, etc. EPC is electronic power control, throttle-by-wire management. So not really tied to the oil pressure. Also, with a tune, anything is possible. You need a scan for DTCs of the whole car while the EPC issue is active, along with checking the state of the oil switches vs the activation of the oil pump when over 3500rpm. Load flaps is another value to check, specified vs actual; they shift at 3000rpm, the exhaust VVL shifts at 3100rpm.

Someone in Europe is working on an LS swap into their B8. Not the most pain free process it seems to work out the engine speed comms. I'd be perfectly happy with a 3.0T supercharged swap.

Thanks! Epc issue was well before the tune but I did trigger the light and scan which reviled...
5580 oil pressure switch
P164B 00 [040]
Pretty much lost hope but I will take another attempt to fix my baby.

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[Smac770]

What was the actual problem, since the posted DTC is incomplete? 5580 is a component identifier, P164B is a generic OBD code, what was the actual error? Implausible signal, malfunction, electrical fault, etc?

Getting such a DTC is not an indication of oil pressure problems. It's an indication of the on/off state not making sense or the switch not working. Maybe the plug is not entire pressed on. Maybe there's a break in the wiring. Maybe the ECM is faulty.

For example, is the switch reporting closed when the ECM is not activating the high pressure mode of the oil pump. You need to start by tracing those values I've already mentioned and seeing when they don't make sense. It should always be either 1-1 or 0-3 (activation oil pump - status oil switches).

[duttyone6]

What was the actual problem, since the posted DTC is incomplete? 5580 is a component identifier, P164B is a generic OBD code, what was the actual error? Implausible signal, malfunction, electrical fault, etc?

Getting such a DTC is not an indication of oil pressure problems. It's an indication of the on/off state not making sense or the switch not working. Maybe the plug is not entire pressed on. Maybe there's a break in the wiring. Maybe the ECM is faulty.

For example, is the switch reporting closed when the ECM is not activating the high pressure mode of the oil pump. You need to start by tracing those values I've already mentioned and seeing when they don't make sense. It should always be either 1-1 or 0-3 (activation oil pump - status oil switches).

I really appreciate your time. The error read as a malfunction, I have attached a photo of the read out from a few months ago when I read the codes. Maybe this can help others reading this as well. 20210728_210811.jpg

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[Smac770]

Fault frequency 47 times since the initial DTC on Jun 28th. So that's once every other day.

As you have VCDS, you can log the relevant values during a drive. As mentioned in the PM, IDE00496 and IDE00497 are the two key values. You'll then want to add other values like engine speed and vehicle speed and accelerator position so you have some context when you're looking at the data. But if you don't have Group UDS (don't have a HEX-V2 or HEX-NET), then the data sample rate becomes real suck as you add values. Without Group UDS, you'll probably have to just keep it at the two key values and start from there.

A graph I made from a log made some time back (I do all the data manipulation and graphing in Excel; I don't try to use VCDS for what it's not best at):

oil pressure management graph.jpg

You see in the graph that the engine is started, kicks up to 1200 rpm (red line) but does not run the sustained high idle as the engine is already a bit warm, it rolls down to the normal idle pretty quickly.

You see the oil pressure switches (orange line) "low" (value 1) comes on first (total value 1) then "high" (value 2) comes on shortly after (total value 1+2=3).

The oil pump mode switch (blue line, 0 = high mode, default; 1 = reduced mode, optional) is not activated initially, normal. Then after the ECM decides it's not running a sustained high idle and the oil temp is sufficient, it kicks the pump over to reduced mode (value 1). We see the oil switches respond as expected. The high switch stops reporting closed (no longer at least 2.something bar of pressure detected) and the total status value drops to 1 (only the low switch still reporting sufficient pressure, at least .7 bar).

And then we see pretty tight control as the ECM decides at times to kick in high mode and then to bring it back to reduced mode. The normal changeover point is 3500rpm, but until the oil is fully up to temp, you see how it kicks in sooner under engine load and engine rpm rises towards 3k.

So one of the first things to see from the data is the reporting of the high switch (the one in your DTC) consistently not there, or is it intermittently not in line with expectation?

In the Excel data, you can make another column and put this in to find the lines that do not have a logical IDE00496 - IDE00497 association:
=IF(E12=1,IF(F12=1,"-","ERR"),IF(F12=3,"-","ERR"))
In this case, the IDE00496 is in column E and the IDE00497 is in column F, and I just happened to copy the instance from line 12.

[morris39]

Fault frequency 47 times since the initial DTC on Jun 28th. So that's once every other day.

As you have VCDS, you can log the relevant values during a drive. As mentioned in the PM, IDE00496 and IDE00497 are the two key values. You'll then want to add other values like engine speed and vehicle speed and accelerator position so you have some context when you're looking at the data. But if you don't have Group UDS (don't have a HEX-V2 or HEX-NET), then the data sample rate becomes real suck as you add values. Without Group UDS, you'll probably have to just keep it at the two key values and start from there.

A graph I made from a log made some time back (I do all the data manipulation and graphing in Excel; I don't try to use VCDS for what it's not best at):

oil pressure management graph.jpg

You see in the graph that the engine is started, kicks up to 1200 rpm (red line) but does not run the sustained high idle as the engine is already a bit warm, it rolls down to the normal idle pretty quickly.

You see the oil pressure switches (orange line) "low" (value 1) comes on first (total value 1) then "high" (value 2) comes on shortly after (total value 1+2=3).

The oil pump mode switch (blue line, 0 = high mode, default; 1 = reduced mode, optional) is not activated initially, normal. Then after the ECM decides it's not running a sustained high idle and the oil temp is sufficient, it kicks the pump over to reduced mode (value 1). We see the oil switches respond as expected. The high switch stops reporting closed (no longer at least 2.something bar of pressure detected) and the total status value drops to 1 (only the low switch still reporting sufficient pressure, at least .7 bar).

And then we see pretty tight control as the ECM decides at times to kick in high mode and then to bring it back to reduced mode. The normal changeover point is 3500rpm, but until the oil is fully up to temp, you see how it kicks in sooner under engine load and engine rpm rises towards 3k.

So one of the first things to see from the data is the reporting of the high switch (the one in your DTC) consistently not there, or is it intermittently not in line with expectation?

In the Excel data, you can make another column and put this in to find the lines that do not have a logical IDE00496 - IDE00497 association:
=IF(E12=1,IF(F12=1,"-","ERR"),IF(F12=3,"-","ERR"))
In this case, the IDE00496 is in column E and the IDE00497 is in column F, and I just happened to copy the instance from line 12.

Interesting analysis. Summing state 1 and state 2 suggests that when actual oil pressure is above high pressure setpoint both switches remain "on". Is that correct? Sounds logical.
The posted screen shot says pressure switch defective. Is the switch (and wiring) not the place to start troubleshooting? I seem to recall a service bulletin about that.