Blown PCV and Oil Leaks

[vincent_nguyen2]

I've had a P2187 and hesitation issues for a month now. A shop diagnosed it as a blown PCV, which was also the reason for my oil leaks. Initially I thought it was the PCV and did some of the common tests for it (removing oil cap at idle, checking for vacuum at pressure valve) but I didn't get any results that said "yup, blown PCV". So my first question is, are there any more tests I could've done to diagnose the blown PCV beforehand? And iirc, the updated part is the AK revision?

The shop also quoted me ~$1500 to replace the PCV, reseal the cam girdle, and reseal the timing chain covers then ~$2200 if I wanted to include replacing the chain and tensioner also. I have a '14 with a CPMB, ~56.5k miles, and cam phase adaptation at -3.96. Would it be smart to do the timing chain and tensioner now or is it a little too early and not worth the cost for that preventative maintenance? I don't plan on ever really selling the car unless it totals so I'll be driving it for a while.

[A4x]

How bad is the oil leak? If you could get away with just doing the PCV, as that seems to be the more urgent matter, that would save you a lot of $. PCV is a relatively easy DIY.

I'd say 56.5k miles on a 2014 engine is a little early to do the timing. Closer to 100k is probably more appropriate, but it is a devastating failure if it happens early.

[vincent_nguyen2]

How bad is the oil leak? If you could get away with just doing the PCV, as that seems to be the more urgent matter, that would save you a lot of $. PCV is a relatively easy DIY.

I'd say 56.5k miles on a 2014 engine is a little early to do the timing. Closer to 100k is probably more appropriate, but it is a devastating failure if it happens early.

I agree I can do the PCV by myself and save +$1000 but the leaks look pretty bad. However idk what a minor leak really looks like since this is the first I’ve seen firsthand. I was thinking of saving the timing later too, but wanted to see what y’all say. I just took some pictures of the leaking. I think I lost 1/4 - 1/3 quart in 500mi based off of the oil level on MMI

1st pic : oil pooling on top


2nd pic : cold side cam girdle by PCV


3rd pic : bottom side of upper timing chain cover. I took this picture with my phone sideways aiming at, I believe, the bottom left bolt

[A4x]

I barely see any oil leaking.

Your pic #1 shows some oil pooling which is a common leak from the upper timing chain cover. I just replaced the gasket on mine a few weeks ago and it is a super simple DIY. The gasket is like $30 from Audi and you need another 2 small o-rings/gasket for the intake camshaft phaser. Like I said, simple DIY, Google it. Someone with a Q5 posted a good write up.

Your pic #2 looks totally normal to me. I dont see anything worth paying for here. At least not yet.

Your pic #3 might be addressed with an upper timing cover gasket. Like I said, easy DIY, or should take an experienced mechanic 30 minutes.

[vincent_nguyen2]

Well that’s some positive news for me. I’ve seen the upper timing cover and it’s gaskets and I know I can do that specifically, but just need to read up and watch some videos on the best way to access it. The only thing I’m not confident in doing is the cam girdle, but as you said it’s not much of an issue or so it seems. Any chance you know the odds the lower timing cover is shot too?

[A4x]

If the lower timing cover has never been removed, I'd say there is a low chance it is leaking at your mileage. It usually starts to leak after a repair in which it has been removed and bent.

You only need to touch the cam girdle if you're doing the valve cover gasket. From your pic #2, it doesn't really seem like its leaking to me.

Let's see what other forum members have to say about this. If you can post more pics, that might be helpful.

A P2187 can be caused from oil leaking onto the O2 sensor from the outside and causing false readings. Do you see oil on the sensor or on the wiring for it?

Check for other common leak areas in that area, especially the vacuum pump. Mine is leaking and I'm going to replace the o-rings soon. For comparison, my car is a 2011 with 110k miles. The vacuum pump leak just started to get bad enough where it sometimes drips onto the cat and smells like burning oil in the HVAC sometimes. At least I hope that is it! I can tell it has been very slowly leaking for a while...

[jfo]

I experienced the same leak issues due to a gasket leak at the upper timing cover. I doubt that would be related to your DTC however.

[Theiceman]

power wash it, replace the PCV ( as its good PM anyway ) replace the rubber upper timing cover gasket and go with it. do anything else when timing service is needed.

[cuda2000]

Cheapest route is swap put the pcv diaphragm. Only takes a flat head screwdriver. Most times the diaphragm gets brittle and tears.
Your oil leaks are nothing to worry about. Worry about oil consumption if you are burning a quart every tank of gas. Then you replace the pistons. Up to that point you are ok.
Pcv valve video: https://youtu.be/dWiq38FShD0

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[Theiceman]

Cheapest route is swap put the pcv diaphragm. Only takes a flat head screwdriver. Most times the diaphragm gets brittle and tears.
Your oil leaks are nothing to worry about. Worry about oil consumption if you are burning a quart every tank of gas. Then you replace the pistons. Up to that point you are ok.
Pcv valve video: https://youtu.be/dWiq38FShD0

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I was under the impression when the diaphragm tears you get lean running condition due to a vacuum leak through the diaphragm.
I do not believe that failure mode causes over pressurization. .

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[cuda2000]

I was under the impression when the diaphragm tears you get lean running condition due to a vacuum leak through the diaphragm.
I do not believe that failure mode causes over pressurization. .

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You are correct. OP may have a bad pcv valve but his oil leaks are minor and not related. Over the 10years I have owned my b8 I have had to replace the pcv 4 times. About every 3 years. He is due.

2010 Audi A4 Quattro, Check out my upgrade and maintenance videos Cars and Coding here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...4DHrYwEPid0aZb

[vincent_nguyen2]

Hopefully this gets to you guys without writing each post...
I took off the PCV and opened up the diaphragm and it looked okay, no tears or anything. I guess I’ll go ahead and replace it because PM, but that’s got me confused because I was under the impression that a bad PCV cause over pressurization and caused the leaks. I have the front end off up to and including the crash bar, but I’m not experienced enough to continue. Is there a direct guide that I can follow to remove the rest of the front end all the way through the radiator support?

[vincent_nguyen2]

And here are some pictures I meant to include... a couple of the diaphragm and one of where I am at on the disassembly process

[vincent_nguyen2]

If the lower timing cover has never been removed, I'd say there is a low chance it is leaking at your mileage. It usually starts to leak after a repair in which it has been removed and bent.

You only need to touch the cam girdle if you're doing the valve cover gasket. From your pic #2, it doesn't really seem like its leaking to me.

Let's see what other forum members have to say about this. If you can post more pics, that might be helpful.

A P2187 can be caused from oil leaking onto the O2 sensor from the outside and causing false readings. Do you see oil on the sensor or on the wiring for it?

Check for other common leak areas in that area, especially the vacuum pump. Mine is leaking and I'm going to replace the o-rings soon. For comparison, my car is a 2011 with 110k miles. The vacuum pump leak just started to get bad enough where it sometimes drips onto the cat and smells like burning oil in the HVAC sometimes. At least I hope that is it! I can tell it has been very slowly leaking for a while...

The lower timing chain shouldn’t have been removed judging from my service history so I’ll have to see if it really is leaking once the radiator is off. There isn’t any oil on the O2 unfortunately so no quick fix, but can you guide me to where the vacuum pump is?

[old guy]

I took off the PCV and opened up the diaphragm and it looked okay, no tears or anything. I guess I’ll go ahead and replace it because PM, but that’s got me confused because I was under the impression that a bad PCV cause over pressurization and caused the leaks.

It depends upon the mode of failure. The large diaphragm controls the amount of vacuum being pulled on the block. When it fails the block can experience excessive vacuum.

There are also several flapper check valves in the PCV combination valve that prevent any boost pressure from entering the block. If one of these fails you get excessive block pressure.

The diaphragm is replaceable. The flappers are not. If the flapper check valves fail you have to replace the complete PCV combination valve.

[vincent_nguyen2]

The diaphragm is replaceable. The flappers are not. If the flapper check valves fail you have to replace the complete PCV combination valve.

Ah I understand now. Thanks for the clear answer

[B6_Dolphin]

Your issue provide just another example of good preventative maintenance to replace the PCV Assembly by 50k miles.

[jfo]

If the leak is from the upper cover gasket, you don't need to remove any of that. I cleaned up the oil on the upper engine, replaced the gasket, and it was done. Do you have other repairs in mind?

[Theiceman]

If the leak is from the upper cover gasket, you don't need to remove any of that. I cleaned up the oil on the upper engine, replaced the gasket, and it was done. Do you have other repairs in mind?

Exactly what I suggested. Touch nothing else.
This could have been done without removing anything else on the car

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[vincent_nguyen2]

Well I ordered the PCV and upper timing gaskets. I wasn’t sure if the lower timing was leaking or not, but the shop quoted to replace it so I was going with that motion too. I haven’t taken much off so I guess I’ll switch plans to put everything back and put in the parts once it arrives.

New plan: replace PCV and upper timing gaskets, clean off oil residue, and see how much of a leak there is after

Thanks for all the feedback and input guys. I really appreciate it

[vincent_nguyen2]

Took off the timing to get it cleaned up



But also think I’ve found the original source of my P2187... while I was cleaning up all the oil from underneath I noticed 2/3 of my turbo muffler bolts were blown off... does anybody know the dimensions of them or where to get direct replacement bolts?

Edit: they’re M6-1.0 x 16

[Theiceman]

Shoot forgot to tell you to order that gasket for around the vvt solenoid. It consists of two actually, a round gasket. That goes in the cover and a rubber oring that sits in the aluminum bracket.
If you are not in a hurry you might want to pick them up.

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