Stage 2 S3 owners please help! I'm completely stumped and demoralized.

[TheDude420]

I'm at a loss and don't know what else to do or who else to ask. My Stage 2 S3 is no longer performing how it used to. I've owned car for 2 years now and for the last 2 months it feels completely different to drive than it did before. I have APR Stage 2 high torque and DSG tune. I've gone to 2 reputable tuning shops and they've told me that my S3 is performing as expected but it's not. I emailed APR on 01/03/2020 but I've yet to hear back from them. If anyone knows what may have happened or what I can do to get performance back I'd appreciate any advice. All of my mods are in my signature if that helps at all. It's hard to explain but here's what I'm experiencing:

When I floored the gas pedal it used to feel like a rubber-band being stretched and let go. It no longer feels as aggressive and the car feels less powerful like there is less torque. I no longer get a burst of power when I floor the gas pedal and instead it's now a more gradual power delivery. I've not changed the throttle response either. I used to enjoy the aggressive performance which would knock me forward/backward but now my car feels too smooth. I've never driven a stock S3 but my S3 now performs how I imagine a stock S3 does. My car just doesn't feel as fun as it used to. I usually drive in dynamic mode with automatic shifting. The car used to downshift quickly but now it feels like downshifting is delayed. I've taken my car to 2 tuning shops. The first shop kept my car for a full day but said the car was performing as expected. I believe they reset the ECU but I'm not sure. The second shop updated my APR tune from version 2.7 to 2.8 and also said the car was performing as expected. I've been very meticulous with all of the recommended maintenance including the haldex AWD system. I've never tracked my car or been to the drag strip. I have launched my car but not very often. Would removing the Stage 2 tune and then flashing it again possibly fix what I'm experiencing?

I tried Googling but I'm only finding old posts from people who disconnected their battery and are worried they lost their tune. I also read something about using the cruise control stalk to cycle through the programs but it wasn't very clear and apparently a code is needed for this. I have no idea what caused this change in performance but it's very frustrating when every shop tells me the car is performing normally when it feels completely different to drive than it used to. When I first bought my S3 every car tuning shop mechanic who test drove it expressed their surprise at how aggressively tuned my S3 was compared to other Stage 2 S3's they'd driven.

[Tdub Lion]

I'm at a loss and don't know what else to do or who else to ask. My Stage 2 S3 is no longer performing how it used to. I've owned car for 2 years now and for the last 2 months it feels completely different to drive than it did before. I have APR Stage 2 high torque and DSG tune. I've gone to 2 reputable tuning shops and they've told me that my S3 is performing as expected but it's not. I emailed APR on 01/03/2020 but I've yet to hear back from them. If anyone knows what may have happened or what I can do to get performance back I'd appreciate any advice. All of my mods are in my signature if that helps at all. It's hard to explain but here's what I'm experiencing:

When I floored the gas pedal it used to feel like a rubber-band being stretched and let go. It no longer feels as aggressive and the car feels less powerful like there is less torque. I no longer get a burst of power when I floor the gas pedal and instead it's now a more gradual power delivery. I've not changed the throttle response either. I used to enjoy the aggressive performance which would knock me forward/backward but now my car feels too smooth. I've never driven a stock S3 but my S3 now performs how I imagine a stock S3 does. My car just doesn't feel as fun as it used to. I usually drive in dynamic mode with automatic shifting. The car used to downshift quickly but now it feels like downshifting is delayed. I've taken my car to 2 tuning shops. The first shop kept my car for a full day but said the car was performing as expected. I believe they reset the ECU but I'm not sure. The second shop updated my APR tune from version 2.7 to 2.8 and also said the car was performing as expected. I've been very meticulous with all of the recommended maintenance including the haldex AWD system. I've never tracked my car or been to the drag strip. I have launched my car but not very often. Would removing the Stage 2 tune and then flashing it again possibly fix what I'm experiencing?

I tried Googling but I'm only finding old posts from people who disconnected their battery and are worried they lost their tune. I also read something about using the cruise control stalk to cycle through the programs but it wasn't very clear and apparently a code is needed for this. I have no idea what caused this change in performance but it's very frustrating when every shop tells me the car is performing normally when it feels completely different to drive than it used to. When I first bought my S3 every car tuning shop mechanic who test drove it expressed their surprise at how aggressively tuned my S3 was compared to other Stage 2 S3's they'd driven.

You probably need a valve cleaning. And the intake and all cleaned. These cars get very gunked up and have to be serviced or it will cause extreme power loss. Did it happen slowly or all at once the power loss?

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[JDF12997]

This is what I'm thinking as well.
Without going in depth he's some things that could be your issue.

- Carbon Cleaning is a must with these engines
- Fuel Issue?
- How many miles are on your car might need new clutches? Old ones can't hold full torque?
- Or Maybe the S3 just isn't doing it for you anymore? New S/RS in your future?

[TheDude420]

You probably need a valve cleaning. And the intake and all cleaned. These cars get very gunked up and have to be serviced or it will cause extreme power loss. Did it happen slowly or all at once the power loss?

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My issues started several months ago when the EPC light turned on as I floored the gas pedal while merging onto the highway. I felt an immediate loss of power and pulled over. After a few minutes I turned the car back on and the EPC light was off but I drove home and still felt the lack of power and shifting issues. I went to my usual shop a few days later and they fixed it. A few months ago while making a left at a traffic light I floored the gas to avoid getting stuck at the light. I felt a lack of power but the EPC light did not turn on. My car has felt like that ever since. Are you saying I need a carbon cleaning? Any idea how much that will cost?

[TheDude420]

This is what I'm thinking as well.
Without going in depth he's some things that could be your issue.

- Carbon Cleaning is a must with these engines
- Fuel Issue?
- How many miles are on your car might need new clutches? Old ones can't hold full torque?
- Or Maybe the S3 just isn't doing it for you anymore? New S/RS in your future?

I have the 93 octane tune and only fill up at Shell and Mobil. My shop also said that it was possible that a bad batch of fuel caused some issues a few months ago which I explained above. When I bought the car it had 44k miles and it was already Stage 2 tuned. I'm now at 70k miles and I've kept up with all the maintenance. The previous owner also kept up with all the maintenance and had folders full of records which he gave to me. This past summer I had new RS3 ignition coils and RS7 spark plugs installed. Regarding the clutches, I didn't think they would need replacing this early if at all. I do have the Stage 2 high torque and DSG tune so maybe that's what's causing this. I don't know enough about cars to say. Is that expensive to replace?

A few people have said that maybe I've just gotten used to the car but no something is definitely off/different. I plan on keeping this car for another 2 or 3 years. My next car will likely be an RS since I went from a B7 A4 to an 8V S3.

[Sv2k]

When you took it to the shop the first time EPC came one, what did they fix? Are you leaking boost somewhere? Shop DAP has a video how to diagnose it, maybe give it a try?


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[TheDude420]

When you took it to the shop the first time EPC came one, what did they fix? Are you leaking boost somewhere? Shop DAP has a video how to diagnose it, maybe give it a try?

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I'm not sure. From what I remember they said something about a sensor and also resetting the ECU. I've been going to the same shop for 2 years and I may be mixing up what they said at one time with what they said at another. I looked up that boost leak video from Shop DAP. Very informative. I do have OBDeleven so I may give that a try. My boost gauge is still lighting up when I accelerate it's not like it's not moving at all though. This has been so frustrating.

[Tdub Lion]

My issues started several months ago when the EPC light turned on as I floored the gas pedal while merging onto the highway. I felt an immediate loss of power and pulled over. After a few minutes I turned the car back on and the EPC light was off but I drove home and still felt the lack of power and shifting issues. I went to my usual shop a few days later and they fixed it. A few months ago while making a left at a traffic light I floored the gas to avoid getting stuck at the light. I felt a lack of power but the EPC light did not turn on. My car has felt like that ever since. Are you saying I need a carbon cleaning? Any idea how much that will cost?

Yea Im thinking so. Because it will clog up the intake sensor and throw that EPC light. But I would also check plugs and maf first just to make sure its nothing simple. Bad plugs can cause major issues in high revs like when you get on it.
But I would almost bet carbon cleaning is the answer. Should run from 500-700 depending on where you live. Or there are diys out there to.

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[TheDude420]

Yea Im thinking so. Because it will clog up the intake sensor and throw that EPC light. But I would also check plugs and maf first just to make sure its nothing simple. Bad plugs can cause major issues in high revs like when you get on it.
But I would almost bet carbon cleaning is the answer. Should run from 500-700 depending on where you live. Or there are diys out there to.

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Thanks for the info man. Now that you mention it these issues started a few months after I had the RS3 ignition coils and RS7 spark plugs installed.

[Tdub Lion]

Thanks for the info man. Now that you mention it these issues started a few months after I had the RS3 ignition coils and RS7 spark plugs installed.

Yea I think those will be good places to start. I would drop a little coin on some really good plugs for that set up and see if that helps. You'll need to at least spend about 80 -100 on plugs. Copper or Plat wont do.

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[TheDude420]

Yea I think those will be good places to start. I would drop a little coin on some really good plugs for that set up and see if that helps. You'll need to at least spend about 80 -100 on plugs. Copper or Plat wont do.

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These are the plugs I switched to:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...079905626gkt1/

Do you have any other spark plug recommendations? I'm out of my element when it comes to this. I do know that I had my shop regap the RS7 plugs to .026 and that one of them came unplugged a few months ago according to them.

[xander3zero]

What's your mileage at? If you're at ~50k I would doubt that carbon buildup would be significant enough to make your car feel stock? Obviously there would be carbon I just don't think it would be taking 50-70hp or whatever haha.

As far as plugs, what does APR recommend for stage 2? You can't just try OEM plugs with their specified gap?

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[Spinnetti]

Before you do anything, get some objective data. Check for codes, Log if you are patient, and go to the drag strip. Times don't lie. If times are good, then its just your perception. Carbon would have to be insane to cause power loss, and not throw any cels? highly unlikely especially with your miles.. Plugs basically work or not and are very rarely an issue. I run the Beru RS7 plugs at .044 gap, and if you have to run a tiny gap for your plugs to work, you have other ignition issues. I'm at 80k+ and haven't done carbon cleaning yet, and can just dip in the 11's in the quarter. Don't just throw money at it, get data.

[morris39]

I'm at a loss and don't know what else to do or who else to ask. My Stage 2 S3 is no longer performing how it used to. I've owned car for 2 years now and for the last 2 months it feels completely different to drive than it did before. I have APR Stage 2 high torque and DSG tune. I've gone to 2 reputable tuning shops and they've told me that my S3 is performing as expected but it's not. I emailed APR on 01/03/2020 but I've yet to hear back from them. If anyone knows what may have happened or what I can do to get performance back I'd appreciate any advice. All of my mods are in my signature if that helps at all. It's hard to explain but here's what I'm experiencing:

When I floored the gas pedal it used to feel like a rubber-band being stretched and let go. It no longer feels as aggressive and the car feels less powerful like there is less torque. I no longer get a burst of power when I floor the gas pedal and instead it's now a more gradual power delivery. I've not changed the throttle response either. I used to enjoy the aggressive performance which would knock me forward/backward but now my car feels too smooth. I've never driven a stock S3 but my S3 now performs how I imagine a stock S3 does. My car just doesn't feel as fun as it used to. I usually drive in dynamic mode with automatic shifting. The car used to downshift quickly but now it feels like downshifting is delayed. I've taken my car to 2 tuning shops. The first shop kept my car for a full day but said the car was performing as expected. I believe they reset the ECU but I'm not sure. The second shop updated my APR tune from version 2.7 to 2.8 and also said the car was performing as expected. I've been very meticulous with all of the recommended maintenance including the haldex AWD system. I've never tracked my car or been to the drag strip. I have launched my car but not very often. Would removing the Stage 2 tune and then flashing it again possibly fix what I'm experiencing?

I tried Googling but I'm only finding old posts from people who disconnected their battery and are worried they lost their tune. I also read something about using the cruise control stalk to cycle through the programs but it wasn't very clear and apparently a code is needed for this. I have no idea what caused this change in performance but it's very frustrating when every shop tells me the car is performing normally when it feels completely different to drive than it used to. When I first bought my S3 every car tuning shop mechanic who test drove it expressed their surprise at how aggressively tuned my S3 was compared to other Stage 2 S3's they'd driven.

If you own a VCDS scanner (or something similar) it's possible to get a fair indication of peak BHP and torque which is simpler/easier/cheaper than timed runs or dyno measurements at least as first indication. Before and after is the important part.
Why this is not commonly done is food for speculation about motives.

[TheDude420]

What's your mileage at? If you're at ~50k I would doubt that carbon buildup would be significant enough to make your car feel stock? Obviously there would be carbon I just don't think it would be taking 50-70hp or whatever haha.

As far as plugs, what does APR recommend for stage 2? You can't just try OEM plugs with their specified gap?

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I'm current at 70k miles. APR recommends 1 step colder for Stage 2 gapped at .024 - .026 so I bought the NGK RS7 plugs that I linked to earlier. Yea I'm just trying to get as many ideas from people so I can try to get to the bottom of what's going on.

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[TheDude420]

If you own a VCDS scanner (or something similar) it's possible to get a fair indication of peak BHP and torque which is simpler/easier/cheaper than timed runs or dyno measurements at least as first indication. Before and after is the important part.
Why this is not commonly done is food for speculation about motives.

I don't have VCDS but the shop I frequent does and there are no fault codes currently. I have both OBDeleven and Dragy. My best 0-60 time earlier this year was 3.7s. I'll try another run and see what I get. Thanks for the info.

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[sogood]

thats called getting used to the power. time to swap the turbo lol

[wavedash]

Did you change the coil packs as well? I had the stock coil pack when it gave out after going to Stage 1 and my car went into limp mode right after launching. I just had the shop switch everything to the APR coil packs and the RS7 spark plugs

[TheDude420]

Did you change the coil packs as well? I had the stock coil pack when it gave out after going to Stage 1 and my car went into limp mode right after launching. I just had the shop switch everything to the APR coil packs and the RS7 spark plugs

Yes I ended up getting the RS3 ignition coils because the APR coils were sold out everywhere. I paired the RS3 coils with the 1 step colder NGK RS7 Plugs.

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[FastMike]

Check out my post on the 55k carbon cleaning I did. Also I would change engine/trans mounts also... I could move them with my fingertips with just 45k on them. Stage 2 requires spark plug change intervals of around 10k, and I upgraded to the APR coil packs and I've never had an issue.

[Spinnetti]

The NGK are nothing special. The Beru are however.

[mtarr07]

As people have mentioned, you should log your car/ take it to a track/ borrow someones (or purchase) Dragy/ race a stock S3 and/ or a stage 2 S3 (post up in your local forums). Sounds like you're just getting used to the car. I was also thinking maybe the turbo is on it's way out, that is a weak point or point of failure on these cars.