EA839 engine rear main seal

[mobE]

So.... I’m buying all the supplies I need to drop my trans and replace the main seal. I figured like most Audi’s I’d be able to pick up an iABED Industries billet rms but go figure they don’t have an option for this engine yet. If you have any info on a billet rms upgrade for this platform please let me know! I’d hate to go through all this effort and replace with an oe that will just fail again....

[mobE]

After some digging it’s come to light that it’s not really possible to upgrade due to the design.

[18GlacierS4]

How many miles on the car? I'm shocked that the rear main is leaking on such a new car...

[Shawn@PacificGerman]

Most likely is not the rear main seal leaking. We have re sealed a hand full of lower timing covers now on 2018 and 2019 cars.

[crhh95]

Most likely is not the rear main seal leaking. We have re sealed a hand full of lower timing covers now on 2018 and 2019 cars.

What are the symptoms for this issue? Just leaking oil, low oil pressure..?

[18GlacierS4]

Most likely is not the rear main seal leaking. We have re sealed a hand full of lower timing covers now on 2018 and 2019 cars.

Do you know offhand what mileage those vehicles had on them? I've got 45k on mine and as far as I know, no leaking...

[Shawn@PacificGerman]

Do you know offhand what mileage those vehicles had on them? I've got 45k on mine and as far as I know, no leaking...

As low as 2-3k miles on one car, 6k miles on another, and as high as 40k miles I have seen another car.

We have some B9 S4/5 customers now with 70-80k+ miles without leaks (but other random issues over the course of their travels)

[Makes Centz]

As low as 2-3k miles on one car, 6k miles on another, and as high as 40k miles I have seen another car.

We have some B9 S4/5 customers now with 70-80k+ miles without leaks (but other random issues over the course of their travels)

Is it a pain to get to? Is it a gasket or sealant like the oil pan? Any info would help greatly

[Wobblenuts]

Audi is telling me that mine is leaking and I’m at 38k. They TD1 me though because of mods. So if it is leaking it’s on me.

[TJay74]

Audi is telling me that mine is leaking and I’m at 38k. They TD1 me though because of mods. So if it is leaking it’s on me.

That would be very easy to fight under the MMWA. While a tune would void coverage of any damage to the internals of the engine, transfer case, transmission and rear end it doesnt give the dealer or Audi Carte Blanche to deny coverage on everything on the car just because the owner tuned the ECM/TCM.

[oesman]

Audi is telling me that mine is leaking and I’m at 38k. They TD1 me though because of mods. So if it is leaking it’s on me.

Wow they've actually refused to fix a timing cover leak because of a TD1? Do you have mods that would be relevant to a gasket leak or are they just being shitty? If you just have bolt-on mods and a tune I don't see how they'd link a timing cover leak to your TD1. Try to escalate this with Audi at all?

I've had other manufacturers (i.e. GM) pay for things I definitely thought they'd refuse to warranty on bolt-on cars, like hard component transmission damage. They didn't even argue about it, just didn't feel they could really link it to the mods (was a known issue) and I know they look for all this stuff too (i.e. flash counters), their internal documentation on this has been leaked and it is pretty sensible.

I've never had to deal with VAG warranties on a modified car. I've heard its a pain. Luckily I have a well equipped shop of my own. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is supposed to help with this, but realistically you'd have to sue them since they can jus tell you to pound sand. However, I'm surprised they're not more worried about a potential class action lawsuit, especially since federal statutes (like the Magnusson-Moss act) mean you can sue for legal costs too in an exception to the American rule. Surprised no attorneys have jumped on this yet. Not sure how they'd ever prove gaskets are failing from a tune in court.

[Wobblenuts]

Yea so because the car is tuned by IE, Audi refused it saying it added more pressure causing the seal to blow out. They quoted me $5800 to do the rear main

[CELison]

It probably wouldn’t be a horrible job to do yourself if you have the time. If you’re going to have a shop do it, find a good European Shop who’s familiar with these cars and save yourself some cash.

[oesman]

Yea so because the car is tuned by IE, Audi refused it saying it added more pressure causing the seal to blow out. They quoted me $5800 to do the rear main

Shouldn't happen with functional crank case ventilation, don't see how that would be the tune's fault. Also could see you blowing oil out of more than just the rear main if that were the cause :-/. Really sucks man.

[RatBustard]

Is it a pain to get to? Is it a gasket or sealant like the oil pan? Any info would help greatly

the rear main seal?

yes, you have to separate the engine and transmission.

[TJay74]

Shouldn't happen with functional crank case ventilation, don't see how that would be the tune's fault. Also could see you blowing oil out of more than just the rear main if that were the cause :-/. Really sucks man.

This would be my engineering argument as well, there is no way a tune that increases the boost only a couple of PSI would cause a oil leak unless the PCV system failed. the whole reason they (Audi/Dealer) deny the claim is in hopes you wont fight them and will pay them normal labor rates to do the work. When I took my 16 SQ5 in that had been tuned for a bad battery, non-working drivers side seat heater and a rattling sunroof the dealer tried to TD1 my car and say none of the repairs would be done due to being tuned. Once they knew I was educated and know how things worked they dropped the tuning and TD1 issue and fixed the car under warranty.

[Makes Centz]

I was referring to the lower timing chain cover….i think that requires dropping the trans as well, do you know.?

- - - Updated - - -

the rear main seal?

yes, you have to separate the engine and transmission.

^^^^^

[CELison]

I was referring to the lower timing chain cover….i think that requires dropping the trans as well, do you know.?

- - - Updated - - -



^^^^^

Yes. Also requires the trans to be dropped or engine pulled.

[slws4]

This would be my engineering argument as well, there is no way a tune that increases the boost only a couple of PSI would cause a oil leak unless the PCV system failed. the whole reason they (Audi/Dealer) deny the claim is in hopes you wont fight them and will pay them normal labor rates to do the work. When I took my 16 SQ5 in that had been tuned for a bad battery, non-working drivers side seat heater and a rattling sunroof the dealer tried to TD1 my car and say none of the repairs would be done due to being tuned. Once they knew I was educated and know how things worked they dropped the tuning and TD1 issue and fixed the car under warranty.

When you say educated; what did you bring or presented to have them drop the td1?

My car is a bone stock 18 s4 and I just came across this issue; was noticed on my last oil change but the shop pointed it out (friends shop that works on exotics). So they said to just drive it; will clean it up on the next ride in we’ll inspect again. I noted the car performing a lil slower than usual a week later; checked oil via mmi; and it was a qtr above min line; called the shop scheduled a slot to drop off Friday with them looking at it Saturday.

The reviewed it and confirm it’s the rear main seal when car was on and in the air they can see oil bubbling out of the general area near the oil cooler. Not insane pouring out just a small bubble every few seconds. They don’t work on Audi’s much but quoted using all data; says about 40 hrs of work; trans drop etc. over 4k.

Car is several months out of being out of warranty so I told them I’ll check with the dealer first which they agreed since free is better than what they were charging. And that I’ve been a long time customer so they understood.

However car is tuned; but I figure flash it back to oem; I have 0 bolts on other than a HAS spring kit; and I removed my resonators for sound but other than that it’s bone stock and some obd11 tweaks.

So I wanted to be prepared if they hit me with TD1.

Thanks in advance for the response!

[Daaavid]

When you say educated; what did you bring or presented to have them drop the td1?

My car is a bone stock 18 s4 and I just came across this issue; was noticed on my last oil change but the shop pointed it out (friends shop that works on exotics). So they said to just drive it; will clean it up on the next ride in we’ll inspect again. I noted the car performing a lil slower than usual a week later; checked oil via mmi; and it was a qtr above min line; called the shop scheduled a slot to drop off Friday with them looking at it Saturday.

The reviewed it and confirm it’s the rear main seal when car was on and in the air they can see oil bubbling out of the general area near the oil cooler. Not insane pouring out just a small bubble every few seconds. They don’t work on Audi’s much but quoted using all data; says about 40 hrs of work; trans drop etc. over 4k.

Car is several months out of being out of warranty so I told them I’ll check with the dealer first which they agreed since free is better than what they were charging. And that I’ve been a long time customer so they understood.

However car is tuned; but I figure flash it back to oem; I have 0 bolts on other than a HAS spring kit; and I removed my resonators for sound but other than that it’s bone stock and some obd11 tweaks.

So I wanted to be prepared if they hit me with TD1.

Thanks in advance for the response!

Car will be flagged TD1 even if you are out of warranty. The car is 100% going to be hooked up and will call back to home so the technician can use "Guided functions" tool; it is basically a step-by-step walkthrough that gives the technician instructions on how to perform a desired service and will go through the applicable control module. This doesn't matter if it will be flagged under TD1 since you're out of warranty, so the work should be warrantable by the standard warranty most dealers will offer (12 mo/12,000-mi) on in-house services (e.g. the technician forgets to put your oil drain back after an oil change and all the oil drains out during your drive home and seizes your engine, you get a new engine on their dime). I would check with your service advisor on this though given the status of vehicle.

[slws4]

Car will be flagged TD1 even if you are out of warranty. The car is 100% going to be hooked up and will call back to home so the technician can use "Guided functions" tool; it is basically a step-by-step walkthrough that gives the technician instructions on how to perform a desired service and will go through the applicable control module. This doesn't matter if it will be flagged under TD1 since you're out of warranty, so the work should be warrantable by the standard warranty most dealers will offer (12 mo/12,000-mi) on in-house services (e.g. the technician forgets to put your oil drain back after an oil change and all the oil drains out during your drive home and seizes your engine, you get a new engine on their dime). I would check with your service advisor on this though given the status of vehicle.

Noted; 2018-2022 is four years; however each car does have a manu date so I was going by that. But I don’t fit the 50k criteria as I’m slightly over.

My major concern is not paying a 4-5k bill. When you say Warrantable under the standard warranty; can you clarify on that a bit more?

[Daaavid]

Noted; 2018-2022 is four years; however each car does have a manu date so I was going by that. But I don’t fit the 50k criteria as I’m slightly over.

My major concern is not paying a 4-5k bill. When you say Warrantable under the standard warranty; can you clarify on that a bit more?

Sure, I should have expanded on the "standard warranty" bit. If you look at any RO from a dealer, there's a footnote that mentions a warranty for the provided service with certain terms and conditions. This is not the manufacturer warranty that comes with the car, but rather comes from the dealership or independent repair center.

Let's take for instance, a tech forgets to put your oil drain plug back in after an oil change, and on your way home, all the oil drains out and seizes your motor. The manufacturer warranty is not going to cover this (not a manufacturer defect, recall, etc.). This was at fault from the dealership technician. Another angle you can look at is, if you changed your own oil and forgot to put the oil drain plug back in and seized your motor . . . the manufacturer warranty is not going to cover for that either.

So essentially, you can go in to the dealer and get the work performed out of your own pocket and they will warranty their work for a certain period until it starts leaking again and use the dealership service warranty. Or, you can leverage your relationship with your service advisor to see if they can push this across as a powertrain warranty claim if it's still active or as "in good faith" since you're slightly over. Now, obviously the specifics of what Audi will/will not cover is going to entirely dependent upon your dealer group, specifically your service advisor and how much they will go to bat for you. Some appreciate the honesty upfront about the car being tuned and can work with their service technician to avoid certain procedures requiring it to call back to home. Others, not so much.

It helps if there is a local Audi group in your area that members can direct you to certain advisors who are on the enthusiast side, and go through the technical jargon with you so they can communicate to Audi about performing it in good faith regardless of the tune or mileage (similar to what TJay74 replied).

[slws4]

Sure, I should have expanded on the "standard warranty" bit. If you look at any RO from a dealer, there's a footnote that mentions a warranty for the provided service with certain terms and conditions. This is not the manufacturer warranty that comes with the car, but rather comes from the dealership or independent repair center.

Let's take for instance, a tech forgets to put your oil drain plug back in after an oil change, and on your way home, all the oil drains out and seizes your motor. The manufacturer warranty is not going to cover this (not a manufacturer defect, recall, etc.). This was at fault from the dealership technician. Another angle you can look at is, if you changed your own oil and forgot to put the oil drain plug back in and seized your motor . . . the manufacturer warranty is not going to cover for that either.

So essentially, you can go in to the dealer and get the work performed out of your own pocket and they will warranty their work for a certain period until it starts leaking again and use the dealership service warranty. Or, you can leverage your relationship with your service advisor to see if they can push this across as a powertrain warranty claim if it's still active or as "in good faith" since you're slightly over. Now, obviously the specifics of what Audi will/will not cover is going to entirely dependent upon your dealer group, specifically your service advisor and how much they will go to bat for you. Some appreciate the honesty upfront about the car being tuned and can work with their service technician to avoid certain procedures requiring it to call back to home. Others, not so much.

It helps if there is a local Audi group in your area that members can direct you to certain advisors who are on the enthusiast side, and go through the technical jargon with you so they can communicate to Audi about performing it in good faith regardless of the tune or mileage (similar to what TJay74 replied).

Thank you for the response.

[TheLizards]

RE: TD1.

My buddy has a Q7 and the Supercharger clutch assembly failed. There is a TSB for this issue it is a known problem and his car is issuing the codes that are listed in the TSB and you can visually see that the part has failed.

He was told by the service advisor he took it to, who is supposed to be mod friendly, that the car shows stock tuning right now but per their scan he’s definitely tuned and is now flagged TD1 and they are trying to deny warranty coverage despite having a known fault and there being a revised part to address it.

[slws4]

Car will be flagged TD1 even if you are out of warranty. The car is 100% going to be hooked up and will call back to home so the technician can use "Guided functions" tool; it is basically a step-by-step walkthrough that gives the technician instructions on how to perform a desired service and will go through the applicable control module. This doesn't matter if it will be flagged under TD1 since you're out of warranty, so the work should be warrantable by the standard warranty most dealers will offer (12 mo/12,000-mi) on in-house services (e.g. the technician forgets to put your oil drain back after an oil change and all the oil drains out during your drive home and seizes your engine, you get a new engine on their dime). I would check with your service advisor on this though given the status of vehicle.

Welp I wanted to post that my car didnt get flagged td1 and i got my issues fixed under warranty. Woot. I think I go this td1 stuff figured out.

[CELison]

I had my oil leak fixed under warranty as well while being tuned with bolt-ons. I came in with it diagnosed as being the oil filter housing gasket. They said, yup, sure it, we'll replace it and won't scan the car.

[slws4]

I had my oil leak fixed under warranty as well while being tuned with bolt-ons. I came in with it diagnosed as being the oil filter housing gasket. They said, yup, sure it, we'll replace it and won't scan the car.

Mine was the main rear oil seal Took well over a week to get fixed.

[crhh95]

Mine was the main rear oil seal Took well over a week to get fixed.

Jeez how much oil were you losing?

Mine goes low, like halfway on the bar around 5k miles (when cold) but then when the oil warms up the bar is full. Idk if I should be worried or not lol


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[slws4]

Jeez how much oil were you losing?

Mine goes low, like halfway on the bar around 5k miles (when cold) but then when the oil warms up the bar is full. Idk if I should be worried or not lol


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not a lot lol, a drop at a time. maybe a quart after a month. it was just bubbling from the seams.

Overall wanted to take care of it so i didnt have to deal with it in the near future

[crhh95]

So is oil consumption on these cars regular or not? I’ve seen so many differing views on it.


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[K1196A]

Welp I wanted to post that my car didnt get flagged td1 and i got my issues fixed under warranty. Woot. I think I go this td1 stuff figured out.

So what was your strategy to avoid the TD1?

[slws4]

So what was your strategy to avoid the TD1?

Crazy part was that the car was tuned when I brought it in. I don't want to post my start, but I used points in this thread, and it worked out in my favor and ill just bring it back to the same dealer LMAO. The one near me I am sure would've flagged it, the one i brought it to? They didnt care.

Works out

[SHCKR]

Is this all on factory oil?

[ssanderson1]

It really has nothing to do with where you take the car. If the car is tuned, and they plug the thing in and scan it, it’d get flagged TD1. If they don’t plug it in, you’re good.

[slws4]

It really has nothing to do with where you take the car. If the car is tuned, and they plug the thing in and scan it, it’d get flagged TD1. If they don’t plug it in, you’re good.

I get what your saying, but my overall point was that it was taken care of under warranty and not flagged is all.

Is this all on factory oil?

Liqui moly same weight.

[Wobblenuts]

Update on my “rear main” leak. I’m probably 800 miles or so into this oil change with zero drop in level. I haven’t been under the car to take a look at wetness but I suppose it’s not a big deal at the moment. Maybe it’s not the rear main like Audi said. We will never know

[CELison]

Rear main is almost always a very slow leak.