Q5/SQ5 AWD - How does it respond with 2 wheels off the ground on a dirt incline?

[rumplestilskin7]

I am wanting to know more about the capabilities of the AWD in a situation where 2 wheels come off the ground. Anyone have experience with the following type of situation?
Going very slowly up a dirt hill at an incline and 2 opposing wheels come off the ground (articulation) - What happens? Do the wheels without traction spin for about 2 to 3 seconds and then computer locks up the spinning wheels and off you go? I am trying to compare it to the 2013 Subaru XT I had. I don't want another Subaru, not that is wasn't a great car for what it is but does not compare to the SQ5.
Any input on your experience would be greatly appreciated.

[pdnation]

https://youtu.be/ArAZ4ezyNeM


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[rumplestilskin7]

Thank you, I have seen that video. That Q5 has the new AWD system. It seems like the 2015 Q5 would do a little worse then this newer one.
It does not look like it performs real well in this situation at least compared to the X3.

[Pittdawg]

Thank you, I have seen that video. That Q5 has the new AWD system. It seems like the 2015 Q5 would do a little worse then this newer one.
It does not look like it performs real well in this situation at least compared to the X3.

I have not driven a B9 but that AWD is only part-time/predictive whereas the B8/B8.5 have full-time AWD.

Full-time AWD is much better for offroad/snow terrain whereas part-time will get better mpgs in town/highway driving.

[rumplestilskin7]

I have not driven a B9 but that AWD is only part-time/predictive whereas the B8/B8.5 have full-time AWD.

Full-time AWD is much better for offroad/snow terrain whereas part-time will get better mpgs in town/highway driving.

So you think the B8/8.5 would actually do better then the B9? It is strange though that Audi would go backwards in their AWD capability just for 1 or 2 MPG. What I gathered from the video and comments after the video is that the B9 is using more computers like the Xdrive systems from BMW. It seems that BMW has a better system for my dirt road needs but these guys in the video did not test a B8/B8.5 that I saw or could find.
I am only familiar with how my 2013 Forester XT would do in this situation. Anyone have both for comparison sake? LOL

[Norskie]

So you think the B8/8.5 would actually do better then the B9? It is strange though that Audi would go backwards in their AWD capability just for 1 or 2 MPG. What I gathered from the video and comments after the video is that the B9 is using more computers like the Xdrive systems from BMW. It seems that BMW has a better system for my dirt road needs but these guys in the video did not test a B8/B8.5 that I saw or could find.
I am only familiar with how my 2013 Forester XT would do in this situation. Anyone have both for comparison sake? LOL

I don't know if I'd call it "backwards" unless we know what the intent of the changes were. I highly doubt the intent was to be able to climb the sorts of terrain in that video; more likely the intent is to maintain excellent driving dynamics on slippery roads and the ability to get through a few inches of snow.

If where you intend to drive looks anything like what's in that video, and you do it frequently, I'd suspect a Jeep. My brother has an old Cherokee and a new Rubicon and their unsophisticated 4x4 systems would just walk right up that slope, but the tradeoff is reliability and any semblance of on-road performance or comfort.

The other thing to consider is how much abuse the vehicles can handle, and what it would cost to repair. The new Subaru's aren't as tough as the older ones but they are still very durable. Parts aren't expensive and they're not hard to fix. The Q5's (and most euro brands, for that matter) are a bit more delicate. They're not throw-away like the FCA's are, and by that I mean that nearly everything on them is repairable, but the repair procedures are often overly complex and expensive.

BTW I also came from the Subaru world ... after a crappy A4 we had a 2005 Outback XT 5MT for many many years, then a BRZ, a WRX (FA20DIT) and a 2017 Legacy (stupid CVT). Somewhere in there we also had an A6, which was a pile of crap, far worse than our A4. Then I dipped my toes into BMW's xDrive (E60 535ix 6MT), and now back to Audi (2015 SQ5).

For any off-pavement driving I'd pick my old Outback over my newer SQ5, any day.

[rumplestilskin7]

I don't know if I'd call it "backwards" unless we know what the intent of the changes were. I highly doubt the intent was to be able to climb the sorts of terrain in that video; more likely the intent is to maintain excellent driving dynamics on slippery roads and the ability to get through a few inches of snow.

If where you intend to drive looks anything like what's in that video, and you do it frequently, I'd suspect a Jeep. My brother has an old Cherokee and a new Rubicon and their unsophisticated 4x4 systems would just walk right up that slope, but the tradeoff is reliability and any semblance of on-road performance or comfort.

The other thing to consider is how much abuse the vehicles can handle, and what it would cost to repair. The new Subaru's aren't as tough as the older ones but they are still very durable. Parts aren't expensive and they're not hard to fix. The Q5's (and most euro brands, for that matter) are a bit more delicate. They're not throw-away like the FCA's are, and by that I mean that nearly everything on them is repairable, but the repair procedures are often overly complex and expensive.

BTW I also came from the Subaru world ... after a crappy A4 we had a 2005 Outback XT 5MT for many many years, then a BRZ, a WRX (FA20DIT) and a 2017 Legacy (stupid CVT). Somewhere in there we also had an A6, which was a pile of crap, far worse than our A4. Then I dipped my toes into BMW's xDrive (E60 535ix 6MT), and now back to Audi (2015 SQ5).

For any off-pavement driving I'd pick my old Outback over my newer SQ5, any day.

Thank you for the info. What did you think of the Xdrive? Not that you got to go off road with it? LOL
I really want to upgrade a bit to an SQ5 or if that awd is a bit weak for my needs then my second choice is an X3 35i. I had an older jeep before but except for its capability it is not my cup of tea. I like speed and sports cars so I think a good compromise is one of the two above vehicles. I need something capable because sometimes I do have 2 opposing wheels slightly off the ground. Most of the time a 2WD is fine and I don't technically go off road. I sell land for a living in rural county areas and there is always a road of some sort. LOL
I have an older Acura MDX with VTM4 Lock. It's not as good a SH-AWD and nowhere as good as my Forester I had 4EAT (Torque converter auto, no CVT) The MDX system I have will get the 3 wheels slipping off my test rollers but it is very heat sensitive as the AWD clutch will release with just a bit too much throttle. It gets very hot here in the summer, so this system isn't great and repeatable performance is not its strong suit.
I think the reliability of my 2 choices of vehicles is fairly even give or take.
To sum up, I want the AWD to be equal to or better then my Forester but in a faster and better looking package. I have test driven the 2015 SQ5 and the 2015 X3 35i. Both are fun to drive, much more so then my Forester obviously. It seems like the Xdrive slips a lot less then the Q5/SQ5 from what I have seen video wise.

[Norskie]

Thank you for the info. What did you think of the Xdrive? Not that you got to go off road with it? LOL
I really want to upgrade a bit to an SQ5 or if that awd is a bit weak for my needs then my second choice is an X3 35i. I had an older jeep before but except for its capability it is not my cup of tea. I like speed and sports cars so I think a good compromise is one of the two above vehicles. I need something capable because sometimes I do have 2 opposing wheels slightly off the ground. Most of the time a 2WD is fine and I don't technically go off road. I sell land for a living in rural county areas and there is always a road of some sort. LOL
I have an older Acura MDX with VTM4 Lock. It's not as good a SH-AWD and nowhere as good as my Forester I had 4EAT (Torque converter auto, no CVT) The MDX system I have will get the 3 wheels slipping off my test rollers but it is very heat sensitive as the AWD clutch will release with just a bit too much throttle. It gets very hot here in the summer, so this system isn't great and repeatable performance is not its strong suit.
I think the reliability of my 2 choices of vehicles is fairly even give or take.
To sum up, I want the AWD to be equal to or better then my Forester but in a faster and better looking package. I have test driven the 2015 SQ5 and the 2015 X3 35i. Both are fun to drive, much more so then my Forester obviously. It seems like the Xdrive slips a lot less then the Q5/SQ5 from what I have seen video wise.

The xDrive was excellent, by far the most planted and "performance" oriented of the bunch. On dry pavement the handling was superb, in snow with the nanny-aids turned on it just went where you steered and allowed acceleration right up to the limit. Turn off the nanny-aids (as much as it let me) and it did allow some sliding and drifting and then it softly reigned it in; you could still spin donuts if you wanted to. Since it was a 5-series it didn't have much ground clearance so did not do anything worse than gravel. It wasn't the best looking car, but still ranks as one of my favorites. I had it tuned to stage 1 and it was plenty fast, handled great, and very comfortable. It's a shame that even at low miles (60k) it was too unreliable to trust. I've had to rescue the wife and kid from the side of the road once, and twice had to return home to swap cars because the CEL came on. It hadn't gone a single oil change interval without needing some sort of repair.

The xDrive transfer case uses a plastic actuator gear inside that likes to strip, for heavy duty offroad I suspect that would be the weak link.

Careful with that 35i ... while the N55 (and especially the older N54, with forged internals) engines are strong, but it's unfortunate that BMW puts such crappy parts on the outside; plastic cooling systms, charge pipes that crack, oil leaks galore (filter hoursing, valve cover, rear seal, oil pan), terrrible water pumps, they can't figure out how to make good injectors, crappy HPFP's etc. Nor are the ZF6's in BMW's reliable, many owners have had to replace the mechatronic units.

Have you considered the 1st gen Porsche Cayenne? Adjustable height suspension and locking diff's, it's pretty capable offroad. Get the V6 for it's reliability (v8's prior to 2011 had cylinder scoring issues).

[rumplestilskin7]

The xDrive was excellent, by far the most planted and "performance" oriented of the bunch. On dry pavement the handling was superb, in snow with the nanny-aids turned on it just went where you steered and allowed acceleration right up to the limit. Turn off the nanny-aids (as much as it let me) and it did allow some sliding and drifting and then it softly reigned it in; you could still spin donuts if you wanted to. Since it was a 5-series it didn't have much ground clearance so did not do anything worse than gravel. It wasn't the best looking car, but still ranks as one of my favorites. I had it tuned to stage 1 and it was plenty fast, handled great, and very comfortable. It's a shame that even at low miles (60k) it was too unreliable to trust. I've had to rescue the wife and kid from the side of the road once, and twice had to return home to swap cars because the CEL came on. It hadn't gone a single oil change interval without needing some sort of repair.

The xDrive transfer case uses a plastic actuator gear inside that likes to strip, for heavy duty offroad I suspect that would be the weak link.

Careful with that 35i ... while the N55 (and especially the older N54, with forged internals) engines are strong, but it's unfortunate that BMW puts such crappy parts on the outside; plastic cooling systms, charge pipes that crack, oil leaks galore (filter hoursing, valve cover, rear seal, oil pan), terrrible water pumps, they can't figure out how to make good injectors, crappy HPFP's etc. Nor are the ZF6's in BMW's reliable, many owners have had to replace the mechatronic units.

Have you considered the 1st gen Porsche Cayenne? Adjustable height suspension and locking diff's, it's pretty capable offroad. Get the V6 for it's reliability (v8's prior to 2011 had cylinder scoring issues).

What year was your BMW?
Yes, reliability is on my mind, so is fuel economy, performance, and AWD capability. I wish I could have it all. LOL My 2013 Forester was modded and would run 12.5 in the quarter with E85. That is the 4 speed auto too. LOL So, unfortunately I got bit by the acceleration bug 100 years ago and it never let go. The V6 Cayenne is too slow for my needs, even the first gen V-8 is too. The second gen is good but all have some water pipe issues (plastic coolant pipes that crack) under the intake manifold and the newer ones have glued pipes that pop out with age and heat. I can't seem to win and I really don't want two vehicles.
Do you think the SQ5 is more reliable then the N55 X3? I really need to get ahold of a Q5 to test on a hill to see if it would work for me. No one really has one for sale in my small town.
My subaru would slip a wheel a lot, but then lock it up and it would go anywhere. I tested it in the same spot at my older 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee at the time . The only difference was the with the jeep you could stop and start without any wheel slip if two wheel were off the ground. The Subi would roll back if stopped in the middle of having 2 wheels off the ground on a hill because it needed to see a decent amount of wheel slip first. I wonder if the SQ5 is like the Subi or worse in that situation.

[Norskie]

What year was your BMW?
Yes, reliability is on my mind, so is fuel economy, performance, and AWD capability. I wish I could have it all. LOL My 2013 Forester was modded and would run 12.5 in the quarter with E85. That is the 4 speed auto too. LOL So, unfortunately I got bit by the acceleration bug 100 years ago and it never let go. The V6 Cayenne is too slow for my needs, even the first gen V-8 is too. The second gen is good but all have some water pipe issues (plastic coolant pipes that crack) under the intake manifold and the newer ones have glued pipes that pop out with age and heat. I can't seem to win and I really don't want two vehicles.
Do you think the SQ5 is more reliable then the N55 X3? I really need to get ahold of a Q5 to test on a hill to see if it would work for me. No one really has one for sale in my small town.
My subaru would slip a wheel a lot, but then lock it up and it would go anywhere. I tested it in the same spot at my older 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee at the time . The only difference was the with the jeep you could stop and start without any wheel slip if two wheel were off the ground. The Subi would roll back if stopped in the middle of having 2 wheels off the ground on a hill because it needed to see a decent amount of wheel slip first. I wonder if the SQ5 is like the Subi or worse in that situation.

My 535ix was a 2010, the last (and best) year of the E60's. They made some improvements with the N55 (mainly injectors and only one turbo to replace), but it no longer had forged internals and BMW continued to use crappy water pumps, engine gaskets, plastic valve covers, etc. My brother bought an N55 X5 with ~70k miles on it and on the drive home it overheated (water pump stopped) and his transmission was acting up before he traded it. His N54 335i convertible had 100k and no issues. Anecdotal evidence and personal experience only goes so far, so take it for what it's worth.

If I ever own another BMW it'll be a RWD manual transmission naturally aspirated inline 6.

In my opinion the SQ5 will be more reliable than anything from BMW, or even most other Audi's for that matter. The 3.0SC engine with the ZF8 is considered quite reliable. Even at stage2+ we hardly ever hear about engine and transmission failures. Compare that with the plethora of NASIOC and bimmerfest (etc) forums with 'blown engine' threads. My WRX ran great on E30, but 330 awhp was as far as I dared take that engine.

I had my eye on a low mileage 2010 Porsche CTTS but I couldn't deal with the possibility that down the road I'd be looking at engine replacement, despite the low price. The reason I suggested the 1st gen is that those were generally built with more off-road focus than 2nd gen models were, and the v8 problems is why I suggested the v6. But you're right about the water pipe issues on the newer v8's, but at least that can be addressed pre-emptively and it doesn't require a new engine. You might even be able to find a used one where that has already been addressed.

A 2016 JGC SRT was nearly in my garage before I found my SQ5 for $20k less and 2x+ the MPG. I'm guessing 10 mpg is why this won't work for you.

BTW ... if you like the SQ5, you could find a less expensive Q5 with the 3.0SC and a stage one tune will bring it beyond SQ5 power levels. If you're going off road you probably don't want the 21" wheels as there are very limited rubber options.

[Pittdawg]

BTW ... if you like the SQ5, you could find a less expensive Q5 with the 3.0SC and a stage one tune will bring it beyond SQ5 power levels. If you're going off road you probably don't want the 21" wheels as there are very limited rubber options.

Good point; there are even a select few that have an "off-road package".

[Qboost]

BTW ... if you like the SQ5, you could find a less expensive Q5 with the 3.0SC and a stage one tune will bring it beyond SQ5 power levels. If you're going off road you probably don't want the 21" wheels as there are very limited rubber options.

And the Q5 does have a higher/softer suspension over the SQ5.


Does the TDI have the same Quattro as the 3.0? There's this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq2VAzlKfNg
The Q5 does have more wheel slip than the Forester but still gets the job done.

[rumplestilskin7]

And the Q5 does have a higher/softer suspension over the SQ5.


Does the TDI have the same Quattro as the 3.0? There's this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq2VAzlKfNg
The Q5 does have more wheel slip than the Forester but still gets the job done.

I guess I need to pay someone local to test it on a challenging spot I know of. Not interested in the looks of a regular Q5. I have seen that video as well and it looks like a ton of slipping on the very last test.
Thank you for your help.

[rumplestilskin7]

My 535ix was a 2010, the last (and best) year of the E60's. They made some improvements with the N55 (mainly injectors and only one turbo to replace), but it no longer had forged internals and BMW continued to use crappy water pumps, engine gaskets, plastic valve covers, etc. My brother bought an N55 X5 with ~70k miles on it and on the drive home it overheated (water pump stopped) and his transmission was acting up before he traded it. His N54 335i convertible had 100k and no issues. Anecdotal evidence and personal experience only goes so far, so take it for what it's worth.

If I ever own another BMW it'll be a RWD manual transmission naturally aspirated inline 6.

In my opinion the SQ5 will be more reliable than anything from BMW, or even most other Audi's for that matter. The 3.0SC engine with the ZF8 is considered quite reliable. Even at stage2+ we hardly ever hear about engine and transmission failures. Compare that with the plethora of NASIOC and bimmerfest (etc) forums with 'blown engine' threads. My WRX ran great on E30, but 330 awhp was as far as I dared take that engine.

I had my eye on a low mileage 2010 Porsche CTTS but I couldn't deal with the possibility that down the road I'd be looking at engine replacement, despite the low price. The reason I suggested the 1st gen is that those were generally built with more off-road focus than 2nd gen models were, and the v8 problems is why I suggested the v6. But you're right about the water pipe issues on the newer v8's, but at least that can be addressed pre-emptively and it doesn't require a new engine. You might even be able to find a used one where that has already been addressed.

A 2016 JGC SRT was nearly in my garage before I found my SQ5 for $20k less and 2x+ the MPG. I'm guessing 10 mpg is why this won't work for you.

BTW ... if you like the SQ5, you could find a less expensive Q5 with the 3.0SC and a stage one tune will bring it beyond SQ5 power levels. If you're going off road you probably don't want the 21" wheels as there are very limited rubber options.

No, I don't want the 21 inch wheels. You are right on that. Choices, choices.... LOL I need to drive a local one here at a hill I know to see how it does for me.