Is this chain tensioner issue a guaranteed problem on our 3.0ts?

[LakeTahoeQuattr]

Who here has had the catastrophic 3.0t chain tensioner failure. I just spoke to an audi Cert. Mech and he said he is starting to get an influx of 3.0s with failed chain guides!! This has me a little stressed..

I have absolutely 0 chain rattle on cold starts on my 113k 2014 QL atm. But is this is a real issue I will but an extended warranty and get this fixed before I have a problem.

[Pothole]

Did he say the guides failed or that they failed and took out the valve train?
The plastic guides have been failing on Audi’s across multiple makes ans generations but you don’t see many that take out 3.0t’s. I could see them failing and making a ton of noise but I heard that mechanically the chain cannot fall off the sprockets even without tension on them.

[LakeTahoeQuattr]

Mechanic said the guides fail and it is becoming a common occurrence. They break but I guess not enough to make it fall out of time or anything making an engine failure. Still we are looking at a 4 grand repair

[PNW Avant]

From my understanding, catastrophic failure is not common. Instead the issue is first indicated by rattle on start-up. There was a TSB in 2015ish that called for updated timing parts. Many owners had upgraded timing parts installed while under warranty as a result of this TSB. Out of warranty - on your own.

From my understanding the issue was resolved for 2015ish or newer.
My 14 SQ5 had 1-2 seconds of rattle on start up, and nothing ever came of it. Bought with 38K miles, traded in at 63k. I never worried.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...20672-9999.pdf

[Pothole]

I can hear mine for a half second or so if I let the car sit for more than three or four days without driving it. I have always heard it's just the way this motor is and not to worry.

[Fourpoint282]

Well this sucks, I have a B6 S4 where I have already accepted the fact that I will need timing chain service at some point. Just bought a 2017 4M and guess I’ll have the same problem here. This is a well documented problem with the B6S4 platform and Audi knows it. It’s a matter of when, not if. There is no appetite on their end to help fix there, so just get in your minds now that Audi won’t replace this on the 4M platform either.


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[Fourpoint282]

I can hear mine for a half second or so if I let the car sit for more than three or four days without driving it. I have always heard it's just the way this motor is and not to worry.

There is a good video explaining this on YouTube. Basically when you turn the car off the motor will naturally bleed off oil pressure from the top part of the motor (over nite). When you turn the motor on the next time pressure has to build up again to flow oil through the top of the motor. This should only take 1 to 2 seconds. Audi says 1 to 3 seconds of “noise” is acceptable. If the noise persists longer than three seconds you might have a problem otherwise you’re fine. It does beg the question how much damage is done to these poorly designed guides in these 1-3 seconds.


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[PNW Avant]

Well this sucks, I have a B6 S4 where I have already accepted the fact that I will need timing chain service at some point. Just bought a 2017 4M and guess I’ll have the same problem here. This is a well documented problem with the B6S4 platform and Audi knows it. It’s a matter of when, not if. There is no appetite on their end to help fix there, so just get in your minds now that Audi won’t replace this on the 4M platform either.


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No way. The B6 S4 problem is far beyond any timing issue you will ever encounter on the 3.0T.

[Fourpoint282]

No way. The B6 S4 problem is far beyond any timing issue you will ever encounter on the 3.0T.

Well, possibly the repair, but the concept is the same. The b6s4 problem all comes back to plastic TC guides. The cost to repair might be different (e.g $4-8k on S4). Not sure what is involved with the 3.0 motor


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[PNW Avant]

Well, possibly the repair, but the concept is the same. The b6s4 problem all comes back to plastic TC guides. The cost to repair might be different (e.g $4-8k on S4). Not sure what is involved with the 3.0 motor


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The issue called out by the tsb above relates to the tensioner and how it operates under a low oil pressure scenario. Not the guides. This is the only documented timing related issue I’ve been aware of in my extensive research before getting into the 3.0t beginning in 2017.

The b6 s4 guides themselves break and fail.

Have not heard of any catastrophic or accelerated wear on the guides themselves, except the hearsay here from your mechanic. The 3.0t has been on the road in various iterations for over 10 years now, beginning in 2009 in the US. It is also evolution of the earlier and older 3.2. The b6 s4 issues were very very well documented before 10 years of age.

If this was a real problem on the 3.0t, a quick google search would confirm the point. Haven’t seen anything, personally, at least.


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[Fourpoint282]

The issue called out by the tsb above relates to the tensioner and how it operates under a low oil pressure scenario. Not the guides. This is the only documented timing related issue I’ve been aware of in my extensive research before getting into the 3.0t beginning in 2017.

The b6 s4 guides themselves break and fail.

Have not heard of any catastrophic or accelerated wear on the guides themselves, except the hearsay here from your mechanic. The 3.0t has been on the road in various iterations for over 10 years now, beginning in 2009 in the US. It is also evolution of the earlier and older 3.2. The b6 s4 issues were very very well documented before 10 years of age.

If this was a real problem on the 3.0t, a quick google search would confirm the point. Haven’t seen anything, personally, at least.


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This is promising then. Trust me with a looming TC system repair on one car, I’d hate to think I need it on both. Any idea on the repair cost for the tensioner failure? Does it require motor pull (that is a big part of the S4 cost).


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[LakeTahoeQuattr]

Yea no, the b6/7 failure was much worse with the tensioner pin guides being totally wallowed out causing them to not work. Guides is much less worse. Still sucks tho, I really thought this was a bulletproof engine I wasn't gonna have to fuck with. I swear to god, pland obsolescence is built into every manufacturer's equipment requiring maintenance premiums.

Replacement of the guides on the 3.0t is still a 4k job. Tensioner job on a b6s4 is a ~10k

Fourpoint282: my rattle lasts about 1 second "for now" on cold starts "occasionally"
Guess I'm lucky. Sometimes when the rattle lasts longer I do an oil chance and it goes away and slowly comes back with time. I have noticed this with many of my audis over the years. Once the rattle starts I change the oil, like the engine telling me it's time for an oil change.

Not to start a tangent subject about about oil, but i swear by and am not changing from Castrol full syn 0-40 Euro Blend w/ A3/B4 + 1 can of BG MOA on ALL my cars. This is one of the few oils with A3/B4 and if you are not familiar with this, it is good for you to look it up... (300V is used in the tt for track events in the summer temps driving events, winter events I still run the a3/b4 Castrol)

Now, this 4L is my "non modified" to be reliable audi. I tow with this car is 110 degree heat ac full blast running for 8 hours. I run premium oil and strict maintenance schedule. I am not buying a new ugly body style Q7 and my 08 3500 Cummings is overkill is far too uncomfortable for only towing 8k.

PNW-Avant: Some internet search does show some cases of such and this mechanic I spoke to said that the cases are starting to recently increaseas the engines get older, he is seeing more and more of these 3.0ts with the broken plastic guides coming in more often, that's all.

Sorry for the rant, getting off subject. Guess pay to play.

[Fourpoint282]

Yea no, the b6/7 failure was much worse with the tensioner pin guides being totally wallowed out causing them to not work. Guides is much less worse. Still sucks tho, I really thought this was a bulletproof engine I wasn't gonna have to fuck with. I swear to god, pland obsolescence is built into every manufacturer's equipment requiring maintenance premiums.

Replacement of the guides on the 3.0t is still a 4k job. Tensioner job on a b6s4 is a ~10k

Fourpoint282: my rattle lasts about 1 second "for now" on cold starts "occasionally"
Guess I'm lucky. Sometimes when the rattle lasts longer I do an oil chance and it goes away and slowly comes back with time. I have noticed this with many of my audis over the years. Once the rattle starts I change the oil, like the engine telling me it's time for an oil change.

Not to start a tangent subject about about oil, but i swear by and am not changing from Castrol full syn 0-40 Euro Blend w/ A3/B4 + 1 can of BG MOA on ALL my cars. This is one of the few oils with A3/B4 and if you are not familiar with this, it is good for you to look it up... (300V is used in the tt for track events in the summer temps driving events, winter events I still run the a3/b4 Castrol)

Now, this 4L is my "non modified" to be reliable audi. I tow with this car is 110 degree heat ac full blast running for 8 hours. I run premium oil and strict maintenance schedule. I am not buying a new ugly body style Q7 and my 08 3500 Cummings is overkill is far too uncomfortable for only towing 8k.

PNW-Avant: Some internet search does show some cases of such and this mechanic I spoke to said that the cases are starting to recently increaseas the engines get older, he is seeing more and more of these 3.0ts with the broken plastic guides coming in more often, that's all.

Sorry for the rant, getting off subject. Guess pay to play.

Re oil: I use 0-40 blend too and do changes every 5k miles. I know the lubricating properties have come a long way over the decades, but leaving oil in a motor for more than 5k just feels wrong lol


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[PNW Avant]

Yea no, the b6/7 failure was much worse with the tensioner pin guides being totally wallowed out causing them to not work. Guides is much less worse. Still sucks tho, I really thought this was a bulletproof engine I wasn't gonna have to fuck with. I swear to god, pland obsolescence is built into every manufacturer's equipment requiring maintenance premiums.

Replacement of the guides on the 3.0t is still a 4k job. Tensioner job on a b6s4 is a ~10k

Fourpoint282: my rattle lasts about 1 second "for now" on cold starts "occasionally"
Guess I'm lucky. Sometimes when the rattle lasts longer I do an oil chance and it goes away and slowly comes back with time. I have noticed this with many of my audis over the years. Once the rattle starts I change the oil, like the engine telling me it's time for an oil change.

Not to start a tangent subject about about oil, but i swear by and am not changing from Castrol full syn 0-40 Euro Blend w/ A3/B4 + 1 can of BG MOA on ALL my cars. This is one of the few oils with A3/B4 and if you are not familiar with this, it is good for you to look it up... (300V is used in the tt for track events in the summer temps driving events, winter events I still run the a3/b4 Castrol)

Now, this 4L is my "non modified" to be reliable audi. I tow with this car is 110 degree heat ac full blast running for 8 hours. I run premium oil and strict maintenance schedule. I am not buying a new ugly body style Q7 and my 08 3500 Cummings is overkill is far too uncomfortable for only towing 8k.

PNW-Avant: Some internet search does show some cases of such and this mechanic I spoke to said that the cases are starting to recently increaseas the engines get older, he is seeing more and more of these 3.0ts with the broken plastic guides coming in more often, that's all.

Sorry for the rant, getting off subject. Guess pay to play.

Send the links. Would like to see them.

Even with a few cases on google or anecdotally, think about the sample size here.

The plagued b6/b7 s4 motor was in ONE Audi model for about 5-6 years (the specific model with the rear chain). The issue is so so commonly known and is one of the first hits you get when searching reliability. The aftermarket has invested in dedicated upgrade/remediation kits.

The 3.0t was introduced in 2009 in North America, and was in nearly every model range for double the amount of time (10 years): s4, s5, a6, a7, a8, q5, sq5, q7. I may even be missing a few. I understand it’s in the cayenne hybrid too. The motor is standard on many of these models.

Even the b7 rs4 was a derivative of then b6/b7 s4 motor and it didn’t have the same issues with a much more similar starting point.

If this was an issue, it would be very well documented by now. And the aftermarket would jump at the huge amount of money to be made given how many cars got this motor.

I am still highly skeptical until I see some examples. I sold a 2004 b6 s4 avant with 32k miles in 2010 because of the issues I was expecting to have down the road with the timing system. I have no plans to do the same thing with my 3.0t.


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[Pierce330]

Send the links. Would like to see them.

Even with a few cases on google or anecdotally, think about the sample size here.

The plagued b6/b7 s4 motor was in ONE Audi model for about 5-6 years (the specific model with the rear chain). The issue is so so commonly known and is one of the first hits you get when searching reliability. The aftermarket has invested in dedicated upgrade/remediation kits.

The 3.0t was introduced in 2009 in North America, and was in nearly every model range for double the amount of time (10 years): s4, s5, a6, a7, a8, q5, sq5, q7. I may even be missing a few. I understand it’s in the cayenne hybrid too. The motor is standard on many of these models.

Even the b7 rs4 was a derivative of then b6/b7 s4 motor and it didn’t have the same issues with a much more similar starting point.

If this was an issue, it would be very well documented by now. And the aftermarket would jump at the huge amount of money to be made given how many cars got this motor.

I am still highly skeptical until I see some examples. I sold a 2004 b6 s4 avant with 32k miles in 2010 because of the issues I was expecting to have down the road with the timing system. I have no plans to do the same thing with my 3.0t.


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I get the rattle for about a 2nd, a little bit louder on colder starts. I have not changed my tensioner yet but I guess that will be next. Just had my 3.0T decarbonated, belts, plugs, cat recall, CCV replaced, etc...