Looking for advice -- Stage 1 ECU/TCU -- 034/EPL/APR?

[Boost112]

Hello everyone!

I have been lurking on the forum for while, posting here and there... and I have been slowly modifying my B8.5 S4 and have finally decided to tune the car!

I am really not looking to go more than stage 1...I drive back and forth from Miami to Tampa every week...I rack up between 600-800 miles/week...and am looking for input and experience from this group, to help decide which tuner to go with.

My priorities are on drivability over power...mainly since I have a DSG...Im looking for the best DSG/ECU tune combo.

These are the three that I have narrowed it down to:

-034 Motorsports: (1700 for ECU/TCU and cable)...currently the most expensive, curious to see their Black Friday sales...being able to tune from home and update files when they come out is a plus...seems to be THE tune to have...how good is there DSG drivability?

-EPL: (1049 for ECU/TCU and cable -- Black Friday pricing) Hell of a bargain for being able to tune from home and constant updates...How are their DSG tunes?..Driveablity?...do they make the same power as 034?

-APR: (1100 for ECU/TCU) I cant believe that APR is the cheapest of the three (except EPL during their Black Friday sale which is about $50 cheaper) Tune hasn't been touched for a while...no further updates/platform support...best set it and forget it?...how is the DSG drivability and power compared to 034 and EPL?

Any help on driving experiences...reliability issues...anything on either three would be greatly appreciated!

[Mscar1205]

Just got epl stage 1 and dsg. My b8 has 95,000 miles and I've put about 3,000 on the tune so can't speak to reliability.
Car feels way quicker from a dig or highway. For example, I have decent all seasons on rn, wet outside, 3 other people in the car, going 40 about 3500rpm and flooring it spun the tires.....this wouldn't happen stock in my experience.
Dsg feels much more like a torque converted auto when coming to stops or taking off.
I have noticed it shifts harsh on a cold morning for a few miles (prob when the trans fluid is very cold) but otherwise I have enjoyed it.
I still have to replace plugs to Chris's recommendation and do a carbon cleaning but I don't see that making much more power, maybe help in fuel economy.
Hope this helps your curiosity

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[enycelilc]

i'm also debating on which tuner to go with. any reason why you ruled out IE?

APR may be the cheapest but you need to go to a dealer to flash who will charge labor. other tuners' ability to flash from home and continued support for our platform makes APR a no go for me.

i understand 034 and IE to be more aggressive than EPL but EPL still provides for a nice increase in power and the ability to resell in two years is nice. tough decision

[Tony@EPL]

i'm also debating on which tuner to go with. any reason why you ruled out IE?

APR may be the cheapest but you need to go to a dealer to flash who will charge labor. other tuners' ability to flash from home and continued support for our platform makes APR a no go for me.

i understand 034 and IE to be more aggressive than EPL but EPL still provides for a nice increase in power and the ability to resell in two years is nice. tough decision

We're rolling another round of updates and features as we speak. The B8.5 stage 1 files will have adjustable ethanol support and user adjustable speed limiters in the next release. If you have access to e85, this will give you the abilty to adjust ethanol content with out a full flash! And flash at home... and resale =).

[Mscar1205]

We're rolling another round of updates and features as we speak. The B8.5 stage 1 files will have adjustable ethanol support and user adjustable speed limiters in the next release. If you have access to e85, this will give you the abilty to adjust ethanol content with out a full flash! And flash at home... and resale =).

What kind of hp/tq gains have you seen for stage 1 and 2 for a b8/8.5 ?

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[Boost112]

i'm also debating on which tuner to go with. any reason why you ruled out IE?

APR may be the cheapest but you need to go to a dealer to flash who will charge labor. other tuners' ability to flash from home and continued support for our platform makes APR a no go for me.

i understand 034 and IE to be more aggressive than EPL but EPL still provides for a nice increase in power and the ability to resell in two years is nice. tough decision

Reason I didn't pick IE was that they are about the same price as 034...but had more issues that popped up when I was researching for DSG drivability...kind of turned me off of them...

With regards to APR...I have a dealer, that I have known for years, down the street and wont charge to flash my car. With APR I shouldn't really need to go back for a reflash...as they don't support the platform anymore...hence the set it and forget it route.

[Boost112]

What kind of hp/tq gains have you seen for stage 1 and 2 for a b8/8.5 ?

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With the latest release in the EPL stage 1 tunes...they said it had some changes...I wonder if the power went up?...also has EPL made any updates to the TCU files as well?

[Tony@EPL]

With the latest release in the EPL stage 1 tunes...they said it had some changes...I wonder if the power went up?...also has EPL made any updates to the TCU files as well?

TCU updates will be 1st 1/4 2021. We are being told the latest releases are performing even better then before.

Read the fine print people have been posting lately... we've had several clients switch tunes and not end up with the desired result.

[034Motorsport]

Without sharing details, I'd say the forecast is reporting a 100% chance for good Back Friday Deals.

If I were you, I'd hold off for a week to see the best deal available on the best tuning for the 3.0T Platform

-Nick@034

[Boost112]

TCU updates will be 1st 1/4 2021. We are being told the latest releases are performing even better then before.

Read the fine print people have been posting lately... we've had several clients switch tunes and not end up with the desired result.

Tony...just to clarify...the new DSG tune that is being released in the 1st quarter of 20201 is better than before?...and when you say switch tunes...are you referring to customers going from another tuner to EPL...or EPL customers going to other tuners?...

Thank you for the information....greatly appreciated!

[enycelilc]

We're rolling another round of updates and features as we speak. The B8.5 stage 1 files will have adjustable ethanol support and user adjustable speed limiters in the next release. If you have access to e85, this will give you the abilty to adjust ethanol content with out a full flash! And flash at home... and resale =).

are there performance updates/increases or just the new features? i do have access to e85 but adding a HPFP and tracking ethanol content isn't something i want to do right now

[motoguat]

Without sharing details, I'd say the forecast is reporting a 100% chance for good Back Friday Deals.

If I were you, I'd hold off for a week to see the best deal available on the best tuning for the 3.0T Platform

-Nick@034

Fuck yes!!!!

[shortyolsen2017]

I like EPL myself. Hasn't let me down or had problems.
Single pulley ran equal to 11.4@120 sea level.
Dual pulley now and lots more upgrades to come.

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[B8S4inKC]

I've had the stage 1 EPL tune on my 6MT for close to 2 years now (about 25K miles) and its been great. I bought an extended warranty with my car so sticking with stage 1 for now and it's really nice being able to flash back to stock before taking my car in.

As for APR, my friend has an APR stage 1 B8 S4 DSG (same year as mine) and I'm slightly quicker on rolling pulls and and much quicker from a dig to 60. Super unscientific I know, just some personal experience.

[pausenot]

Just installed the EPL stage 1 ECU/TCU tune. Car definitely feels more alive. Not much noticeable changes in comfort mode. It may hold out a little longer on gears rather than rush to D7 at 45 mph. Haven’t had a chance to open her up yet or do any pulls but plan on getting her out on an open highway soon. Chris was prompt in his customer service and even shipped the cable out the same day around 4pm. So far I’m happy.


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[5moremins]

I'm in the same boat currently but leaning towards 034. Seems like many of long time, more invested members have made their way to 034. From what I've read their DSG tune is the least problematic as well.

I was intrigued with EPL for a bit but honestly, why no website? Why so few details in the first post of the sales thread? Everything is PM or email... Why? I prefer to work with companies that are open about their products, not hidden behind the words of sales people.

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[BR11S4]

I've had the stage 1 EPL tune on my 6MT for close to 2 years now (about 25K miles) and its been great. I bought an extended warranty with my car so sticking with stage 1 for now and it's really nice being able to flash back to stock before taking my car in.

As for APR, my friend has an APR stage 1 B8 S4 DSG (same year as mine) and I'm slightly quicker on rolling pulls and and much quicker from a dig to 60. Super unscientific I know, just some personal experience.

EPL rips. My brothers 6mt stage 1 EPl flys. Felt much quicker than my 6mt apr stage 1. I’m APR DP now with gutted cats. But his car is really quick and fun. I’m probably gonna go 034 or IE if sales are really good.


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[BR11S4]

I'm in the same boat currently but leaning towards 034. Seems like many of long time, more invested members have made their way to 034. From what I've read their DSG tune is the least problematic as well.

I was intrigued with EPL for a bit but honestly, why no website? Why so few details in the first post of the sales thread? Everything is PM or email... Why? I prefer to work with companies that are open about their products, not hidden behind the words of sales people.

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That would be EPL.


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[Frymanx]

Hey I have a 2013 S4 and I have 034 ECU/DSG Stage 1 tunes.

The reason I bought 034 was because they still work on our platform unlike others and release new updates and parts, 7 years later for my car. Yes the price is expensive but I bought the tune when APR was the still originally 2000$ For both ECU/DSG and 034 was 1600$ for both.
If you don’t plan on going higher than stage 2 then I’d go with APR only because of the low price and around same performance. But if you want to flaunt your 034 badge like me and go far in upgrades past stage 1 then go with 034.

PS: I’m not sponsored to say this for 034 or APR but I wish I could get a discount Please 034! <3

[Mscar1205]

I agree.
For how aggressive tunes are u could look at hp/tq gains posted by the companies. Here's a chart of stage 1 and 2 for 034, IE, EPL, and APR..... although epl doesn't have a website and the 90hp is the top end of gains they have seen on there dyno.
For whatever tune you choose, you will be happy. If a company sucked, the forms would let u know lol

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[Dutch_A6]

Happy customer of EPL, they do still support the platform and just released updates for the ECU and I believe will be doing a TCU update in January.

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[Moogas1]

What is your end goal? Will you continue to modify or are you doing stage 1 and not going further? That’s what you need to take into consideration.


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[Dan_G]

I've had epl for a year and 10k miles. Been dual pulley and now e40 dual pulley the whole time. Great customer support, I've probably sent Tony over 100 emails and he's always been quick to answer.

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[Envy187]

What is your end goal? Will you continue to modify or are you doing stage 1 and not going further? That’s what you need to take into consideration.

If I'd take the OP's first post on this thread at face value, I'd be remiss to say he'd go further than Stage 1 as he already stated to the contrary.

[doughboy17]

I like the colorful chart provided by the prior poster but believe it reflects BHP vs. WHP. EPL's torque figures are obtainable with some in-depth research and are obtained using a Mustang dyno. Its tune seems to slightly emphasize TQ over HP (my preference).

I highly recommend EPL but 034 should be a consideration, too. I, too, emphasize drivability and reliability over total power, hence, why I went with a comparatively smaller crank pulley. You will NOT find better or quicker customer service than EPL. Yes, its business model (without a website) is a bit different but it has obviously worked for them. The fact that EPL has the profits to continue to develop this platform (see Chris and Tony's posts) is a testament to that business model.

[shortyolsen2017]

I like the colorful chart provided by the prior poster but believe it reflects BHP vs. WHP. EPL's torque figures are obtainable with some in-depth research and are obtained using a Mustang dyno. Its tune seems to slightly emphasize TQ over HP (my preference).

I highly recommend EPL but 034 should be a consideration, too. I, too, emphasize drivability and reliability over total power, hence, why I went with a comparatively smaller crank pulley. You will NOT find better or quicker customer service than EPL. Yes, its business model (without a website) is a bit different but it has obviously worked for them. The fact that EPL has the profits to continue to develop this platform (see Chris and Tony's posts) is a testament to that business model.

I second that, customer service bar none best I've experienced. Don't care to window shop when I can shoot an email or call.

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[Mscar1205]

I second that, customer service bar none best I've experienced. Don't care to window shop when I can shoot an email or call.

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I third the customer service lol. Responses near immediate, but still would prefer a website instead of having to email about simple questions

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[BR11S4]

That chart is very misleading


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[doughboy17]

That chart is very misleading


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Yes, my recollection is that the EPL Stage 1 chart indicated a 75 - 90 whp increase on a Mustang dyno.

[Mscar1205]

Yes, my recollection is that the EPL Stage 1 chart indicated a 75 - 90 whp increase on a Mustang dyno.

Yup I did take higher end of what I heard (90).
Misleading? Doesn't really matter on what dyno u use, if u look at gains and not overall numbers then your only measuring the tunes performance on an equal basis. Sure you could make the argument that is the mustang dyno shows lower numbers overall then u should be going off of percentage increase but I digress, the percentage increase chart would look very similar to the above data

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[Tony@EPL]

Yes, my recollection is that the EPL Stage 1 chart indicated a 75 - 90 whp increase on a Mustang dyno.

Yup I did take higher end of what I heard (90).
Misleading? Doesn't really matter on what dyno u use, if u look at gains and not overall numbers then your only measuring the tunes performance on an equal basis. Sure you could make the argument that is the mustang dyno shows lower numbers overall then u should be going off of percentage increase but I digress, the percentage increase chart would look very similar to the above data

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Dyno "claims" are always difficult to sort through because of difference in dyno/condition ect... that said Im still comfortable with the 75-90 WHEEL hp gain. Our e40 file gains(part of the adjustable option suite) are actually much more then this and is probably the easiest way to make big power on a stage 1 file without any other hardware changes. I believe we are currently the only tuner to provide e40 for stage 1 clients.

[medium_stingray]

I've been with EPL for a little over a year now. I started out with a stage1 ECU/TCU tune and have since moved on to Stage 2 and ethanol blends. I will not speak on other tuners as I have no direct experience. The no website thing was a little weird, but the customer service via email and telephone has been second to none. The team at EPL responds to my questions promptly, and are always willing to spend time explaining things to me, even outside of a sales cycle. I am very happy with the tune and the support from EPL. Stage 1, especially if you take advantage of the adjustable ethanol capabilities, will be a very noticeable difference over stock.

[Boost112]

What is your end goal? Will you continue to modify or are you doing stage 1 and not going further? That’s what you need to take into consideration.


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My end goal is to stay stage 1...IF...I chose to go further i would go to a single pulley upgrade...and only if i had to replace the crank pulley...every tuner i choose has an upgrade ability to single pulley.

[jyim]

When I was shopping for a ECU/TCU tune, I decided on EPL for the price, reliability, and customer service. One year in and I have no thoughts of switching tubes and have been satisfied with the stage 1 tune.

034 is coming out with exciting features for their tunes such as the adjustable launch control limiter, but it seems like EPL is also updating their features based on the posts above.

[Boost112]

Thank you all for giving so much feed back...it is greatly appreciated!!!

I just wanted to add I have no interest what so ever to run any Ethanol blend other than what I get with 93 pump gas...I respect the guys that do, and love the fact that it is supported…but I have done the e40 blend routes with my other cars...and am not going down that route again...with how many miles I drive in a week...I'm at the gas station a lot and don't want to do the song and dance just to fill up...imo its a pain in the ass...just my .02

I'm more focused on the best DSG tune that I can pair with a tune that makes reliable power. How is everyone's impression on the DSG tunes and the drivability?...thanks again!

[Mscar1205]

In D it drives similar. Better and more smooth take off and stopping. Does hold gears a little bit longer but very small (maybe it's in my head). Things I would knock is that issue I have at low temps in the morning. Also sometimes when flooring it and making it downshift it seems like it doesn't pull as hard as if I manually put it in 1st. I'm attributing this to having a b8 which has issues with the mechatronics unit, maybe mine is getting worn and isn't shifting as quickly as it should. I just mention it incase someone else has similar feeling but I really would not associate this to epl.

In S it rips. Doesn't short shift, maybe slightly faster shifts, much better kick down when demanding acceleration. Basically it does everything u want it to do when driving aggressively, wouldnt change it a bit. Have yet to do a launch because I would prefer not replacing a transmission in the winter lol, I will wait a few months.

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[Corydms7]

Awesome! Didn’t know you guys were improving the DSG tune. What kind of improvements are being made on the DSG tune?

TCU updates will be 1st 1/4 2021. We are being told the latest releases are performing even better then before.

Read the fine print people have been posting lately... we've had several clients switch tunes and not end up with the desired result.

[Gaineyz]

Thanks for this Thread Boost112. I've been wanting to pull the trigger on upgrading my stock B8.5 but share your concern about reliability vs performance. At this point I'm just planning on the Stage 1, but like you am open to possibly hitting Stage 2 at some point. Very hard to decide just based on specs, etc. I hope more people will post their experiences and opinions about their tunes.

Waiting anxiously for Black Friday!!!

[iksnoved25]

Anyone know if APR is going to have a Black Friday sale? I know they recently decreased the price of their tunes. Also looks like some of the HP/Tq numbers have increased - Don't quote me on that, I just thought they were lower at some point. If comparing what is in that chart to what is on their website, it looks like they have.

https://www.goapr.com/products/softw...0T-EA837-SIM85

Stage 1 = +134hp
Stage 2 (single Pulley = +148hp

[rjv126]

I am Unitronic Stage 3 dual pulley. I went right to 2+ with SC pulley in 2017 so I cannot speak to what Stage 1 will get you other than the what their numbers say. It's a whole different, better, driving experience. As Ferris Bueller famously said, if you have the means I highly recommend it.

As for reliability I've had my car on a track pushing it to the limits and driven it thousands of miles since tuning. No reliability issues although I have to detune every year to pass NYS emissions. Very easy to do.