Power Liftgate Issues on 2009 Avant

[TexasAmazon]

It appears I have a faulty Liftgate Control Module per my scan in OBDEleven. I can no longer open or close the rear hatch. I can hear the motors trying to actuate and the latch itself closes and locks. I am afraid to force it open and closed. I have searched on Audi's website for the proper part for over an hour with no success. Any advice?

124865673_10100261863590886_606496512555539826_n.jpg

[Smac770]

What do you mean "open or close"? If it's closed and you cannot open it, you do not know if you could close it. And vice versa.
If it's closed and it will not open, when it is attempting to open, can you manually pull it open (even just a little bit)? Ie, is the latch actually releasing so it could open if the motors were working?

https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a4...827-827010/#30
Motors are part 30, there's one for left and one for right.
I'm assuming the J605 rear lid control module 1 is the left one and the J756 rear lid control module 2 is the right one. In either case, the J605 has the 8-pin plug and the J756 has the 10-pin plug.

There's not much to the wiring, 12v and ground to each module, two comms wires between the two modules, two CAN bus wires to the J605, and a wire to the J605 from the open/close push button on the inside of the rear lid.
It would be nice if the error was more specific, which of the two modules and what exactly the presumed issue is.

If you can get the lid open, pull the rear roof trim panel (pulls out to the rear, not downward towards the ground) and see if you can get a better visual on the motor arm movement.
But all in all, if it comes down to needing to replace those motors, that's the kind of task I'd pass to the dealership. I don't have extra arms/hands around here to help hold the lid.

[TexasAmazon]

Smac,

Thank you for such a detailed reply. I could have done a better job describing my issue. For many years the tailgate needed assistance going up and down. A gentle tug on the rear hatch would assist it in going up and a gentle push after pushing the close button would send it downwards. I replaced the gas shocks without any change in operation. Yesterday the rear lid got stuck and I had to push it closed manually. The lock still actuates to close it, and I can hear the motors making noise, but not actually moving it when I try to open it.

How are you able to get the J605 and J756 nomenclature for the actual motors themselves? I was under the impression that the module was separate from the motors. Per a Q5 thread I read the following: "The tailgate is activated by two control units: the master tailgate control unit -J605 and the slave tailgate control unit 2 -J756. The master control unit (tailgate control unit -J605) is always located on the left when looking into the boot. Consequently, the slave control unit (tailgate control unit 2 -J756) is always located on the right. The tailgate drives and the tailgate control unit form a single unit. They have one part number."

Very impressed with your mileage. My Avant just turned over 150k. Been a great car!

[Smac770]

Lot of useful information on erwin.audiusa.com in PDF format, repair manuals, wiring diagrams, etc. Pay for a day and grab the PDFs for your vehicle.

Here's the relevant page from the wiring diagram document. Note, the wire colors apparently changed at some point, but this is the correct image for my Aug 2008 build. The rest of the details such as pin numbers are unchanged.

Notice the Vxxx motors are inside the Jxxx control modules. So typical all in one unit (same deal with the J500 and the electromechanical steering rack for the B8.5).

rear lid motors wiring.jpg

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...ft/8k9827851a/
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...ht/8k9827852a/

Note the plugs, those are the T8ae and T10ad in the wiring diagram.

Do the motors sound like they are struggling or just free spinning? The remove/install instructions for the rear lid are in the repair manual - body exterior (and why I say get all the docs, you never know when one is going to say "and go do this as noted in this other repair group document", such as this process which refers to a step in the repair manual - body interior).

Note, our MY09 vehicles would have come originally with no revision versions, but that's replaced by A now. There is also a C rev out there, if you go looking used, but that's for builds after Dec 2013. The wiring is not any different, but there must be some difference for Audi to retain stocking different parts. I'd stick to A versions for our cars.

I've never used VCDS to look at output tests or measuring blocks for the J605 (address 0x6D). There might be something useful there or there might not. There is no coding for these modules, but you can be sure there is a basic setting or adaptation you'll have to do if you do a replacement operation.

[Smac770]

"The tailgate drives and the tailgate control unit form a single unit. They have one part number." I think what that's trying to say is the control module and the motor are a single unit, so a single part number and not separately replaceable (at least not parts you can buy from Audi). But there's still the left side one and the right side one, each with their own part number.

[TexasAmazon]

Thanks for the further clarification, it's a huge help. Do you think I will be ok with the "C" revisions of the parts? Is there anything on the manuals that has info on how to install them and adapt them?

I found two for $250 on Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tailgate-Li...d/133422628806
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tailgate-Li...d/133422628853

[Smac770]

I already said my thought on A vs C: "I'd stick to A versions for our cars." If it's worth it to you to try C and see if it actually works, go for it. I have no idea what's different A vs C or why Audi bothers with two different parts.

The repair manuals almost never include any useful information on how to run the computer side of things. Always just "perform basic setting" or "run guided fault finding". You might look in VCDS at that address I already noted and see if basic setting or adaptation show any possibly relevant actions (though don't initiate them).

The repair manuals do have the remove/install instructions; wouldn't be much point to them if they didn't.

[TexasAmazon]

SMAC - I got in there this evening and took a closer look at the left motor. It was missing its mounting screw completely and not attached. The challenge I am having is that I can't get it to realign and go back in. It appears there is an indicator on the crown of the motor(see attached) but on the keyed arm it supposed to mate with, I can't tell. I've tried adjusting the motor by plugging it in and hitting the rear switch to move it around to no avail. Does Audi have info on how to install the motor you might be able to share. I've got the mounting bolt on order. Thank you!

62717492600__DB9E50DD-C9DE-4C3F-BB09-D27040FF519E.jpg

[Smac770]

That junction is not a normal disassembly point. Go to the ECS link for the ...851A and go to the third pic. What I see you showing me is the silver arm held on by the round brass object has separated from the motor. The normal disassembly point is the threaded nut on the black end of that arm, where it bolts to the rear lid hinge. If we look at the parts diagram page, we see that arm to hinge point is fastened by bolt #34: https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+a4.../8/827-827010/

But there's no break down of the motor itself. And the repair manual is of similar fashion. How to unbolt the motor from the hinge, yes. But how to rebuild the motor, which is all one replaced unit, is not discussed. How did you determine the part number of the brass object?

I'm also curious, notice in your pic, at the far end of the black flange you have a hex bolt. But in the ECS pic, it appears to be a black pin, sticking in the other direction.

https://6.allegroimg.com/original/03...lapy-8K9827851
Here we have pics of the motors, and we see the silver pin sticking out; guessing it's some kind of safety stop. So maybe yours is like these, and the pin part is just outside the edge of your pic.

You're going to have to dismount the motor and then unbolt the arm so you can reassemble the motor unit and the install it properly. This is all the repair manual really has to say about the motors:

wagon rear lid motors.jpg

[dskb8avant]

Hi all, I'd like to resurrect this thread. This is also my first time posting on AudiZine. I think I attached a couple photos of my Audi for your viewing pleasure .

@texasamazon, did you ever get this fixed? Were you able to do it yourself? I had a similar issue where the left side motor was basically sitting on the fabric trim piece, not engaged where it was supposed to be. The Brass pressed-fit flange piece, holding the little silver arm, had come undone, much like yours. I reassembled and the lift gate now only opens half way. I brought it to Audi and they hooked it up to VCDS and gave me a $2300 quote to replace both hatch motors. Audi can't get the parts so they didn't even offer to do it and sent me on my way. I went home and have found the parts, this forum, and am wanting to gather some more info before spending $1600 on new motors.

My questions:
Did you do the install yourself? If so where did you get parts? Are you mechanically capable?
Did you replace both motors or just one?
If you did install yourself, did you have to bring it to an Audi dealer, or some shop with VCDS, to be able to program the motors to work together?
What is required for programming these motors? (is it VCDS, or is it simply using the hatch open/close button to set the max open/close parameters?

@Smac770, you seem to be a wealth of knowledge, so please chime in if you happen to have any more insight on this repair.

I don't have a repair manual. I have determined that I need the 'A' spec'd parts, but I'm unaware if the C parts will work or not. I won't be buying the 'C' spec parts to find out.

My car:
2012 Audi A4 Avant Prestige, 85k miles. I've had quite a few mechanicals already (cracked water pump housing) but I sure do love the car.IMG_1972.jpgIMG_3479.jpg

[Smac770]

You're going to want the manuals if you're going to be taking things apart and trying to put them back together well. erwin.audiusa.com, pay for a day, get all the PDFs for your VIN.

I'll say the instructions are poor and cryptic. The kind that only make sense once you're in there and actually in the motion of things. It doesn't even reference the right side motor.

There's no coding to reprogram. I believe there's an owner procedure for setting the opening stop point, in the owner's manual no doubt. But also appears there's an adaptation that can be invoked directly. http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...tronics_(J605)

But other than clearing DTCs, no, doesn't seem to be any real computer work after a replacement. As mentioned, it could be you'll need to reset the stop point.

[Smac770]

A rev is for builds through Dec 6 '13 (>mid MY14).
C rev is for builds starting Dec 9 '13 (mid MY14>).
So you shouldn't be trying C rev anyway.

[dskb8avant]

Thanks for the help. Do you happen to know if both motors need to be replaced at the same time? Audi dealer said replace both. I know that the left motor had some issues but didn't think the right one had any problems. But now that it's been operating impaired for awhile, maybe that has changed.

I'll be getting the repair manuals as you suggested. Nice to know that it doesn't need any real computer work (Audi dealer told me it needed VCDS to reprogram both motors to work in harmony)

In the meantime, I was thinking of disconnecting both motors and allowing the hatch to be manually lifted and lowered, using the struts to hopefully hold it in place while it's open. I have no idea if they're strong enough to do this, or if the hatch is mainly held up by the motor being 'locked' in the open or close position. Other than the potential for codes, does anyone foresee issues with doing this?

Updates to follow once I can get in there and dig around some more.

[Smac770]

The manual is really not helpful on the specifics of this object. It would be best if someone who has actually done the task would denote what was actually required. The manual doesn't even have instructions for the R&R of the right side motor. But it is very clear about don't mess with the L bracket that connects to the body which the motor mounts to. "positioned at the factory with special tools", etc.

That thing is really heavy, the struts alone might hold it up some, but I doubt all the way.

[bdrforums]

Having this problem right now. The right lid motor mount screw somehow backed out and is lost. The motor is just dangling and I think it bent the bracket on the right hinge. I have to figure out how to reposition this motor and find a metric bolt to secure it to the mount bracket

[FlyingCowboy]

Hi All,
Going to resurrect this thread somewhat.
Mostly from the point of providing some answers for a bunch of the questions posted that no one has seemed to figure out.

Short backstory - I had the left tailgate motor sheer its mounting bracket upon encountering some resistance during an opening cycle. (There is a long story behind how this occurred)



So I went on the mission of replacing this bracket and discovering that you cannot simply refit the motor back into position from this state.
There is only one way to get the motor back into its original location, and that involves removing it entirely, and refitting it in the correct installation sequence (Now I did find an Audi motor installation diagram when I did this originally - which I no longer have)

But essentially you have to strip out the entire trim in the luggage compartment, remove the motor from the hinge and then fit it back into position, fitting the hinge bolt back in at the very end, if you fit the hinge bolt any other stage in the process you will not be able to get the motor into place correctly.

Anyway, after replacing the bracket, my tailgate only opened halfway. I tried reprogramming it - nothing.
Did some digging around and it seemed to me that there was an issue with the right motor, so I ordered a new (eBay off a salvaged vehicle) right hand motor (slave motor) and went through the process of replacing this motor.
Still only opened half way after fitting it.

Recently I got a garage to try through VCDS to reprogram my tailgate and set the upper limits etc. But it kept coming up with:
02786 - Module 2 for hatch / Trunk Lid (J756)
004 - No Signal/Communication - intermittent

Which is how I found this thread.

Just this past weekend I ran a different diagnostic program (Car Scanner) through the fault code and got:
00317 - Luggage compartment lid control Unit (J605) - Tailgate Control
Along with:
02914 - Luggage compartment lid sensor 1 (Lid closed)
02915 - Luggage compartment lid sensor 2 (Lid closed)

I repaired the lid sensor ones, that was some corrosion in the plug.

Did some searching around and found on the Ross tech wiki that the 00317 fault is the Master control unit electronic failure, says to reset it and try again, else replace.
Suffice to say, the reset did sweet blow all... However the fault isn't showing up on a fault scan currently.

But... i just purchased another motor (the left one) and will be fitting it and reprogramming the luggage compartment limits in the near future.
Since there is very limited information about this online - I shall record the process and post a link to a YouTube video on how to (at the very least replace the motors) fix this issue.

[sciroccokid]

Hi All,
Going to resurrect this thread somewhat.
Mostly from the point of providing some answers for a bunch of the questions posted that no one has seemed to figure out.

Short backstory - I had the left tailgate motor sheer its mounting bracket upon encountering some resistance during an opening cycle. (There is a long story behind how this occurred)



So I went on the mission of replacing this bracket and discovering that you cannot simply refit the motor back into position from this state.
There is only one way to get the motor back into its original location, and that involves removing it entirely, and refitting it in the correct installation sequence (Now I did find an Audi motor installation diagram when I did this originally - which I no longer have)

But essentially you have to strip out the entire trim in the luggage compartment, remove the motor from the hinge and then fit it back into position, fitting the hinge bolt back in at the very end, if you fit the hinge bolt any other stage in the process you will not be able to get the motor into place correctly.

Anyway, after replacing the bracket, my tailgate only opened halfway. I tried reprogramming it - nothing.
Did some digging around and it seemed to me that there was an issue with the right motor, so I ordered a new (eBay off a salvaged vehicle) right hand motor (slave motor) and went through the process of replacing this motor.
Still only opened half way after fitting it.

Recently I got a garage to try through VCDS to reprogram my tailgate and set the upper limits etc. But it kept coming up with:
02786 - Module 2 for hatch / Trunk Lid (J756)
004 - No Signal/Communication - intermittent

Which is how I found this thread.

Just this past weekend I ran a different diagnostic program (Car Scanner) through the fault code and got:
00317 - Luggage compartment lid control Unit (J605) - Tailgate Control
Along with:
02914 - Luggage compartment lid sensor 1 (Lid closed)
02915 - Luggage compartment lid sensor 2 (Lid closed)

I repaired the lid sensor ones, that was some corrosion in the plug.

Did some searching around and found on the Ross tech wiki that the 00317 fault is the Master control unit electronic failure, says to reset it and try again, else replace.
Suffice to say, the reset did sweet blow all... However the fault isn't showing up on a fault scan currently.

But... i just purchased another motor (the left one) and will be fitting it and reprogramming the luggage compartment limits in the near future.
Since there is very limited information about this online - I shall record the process and post a link to a YouTube video on how to (at the very least replace the motors) fix this issue.

Did you try holding the lift button on the hatch to set/reset the final lift height?

[FlyingCowboy]

Did you try holding the lift button on the hatch to set/reset the final lift height?

That was my first go to, I did it at all different height settings to see, and it always returned to the exact same midway opening point.

The fault codes coming up in the scan tell that there is something wrong with the life gate control module.

[Smac770]

Yeah, but those are error codes, those are DFCCs, component codes. All they say is "this component", which the text already elaborates. The actual error text is omitted. Notice the VCDS entry above those. A DFCC for the J756, but then the actual error, 004 - no signal/comms.

[FlyingCowboy]

Yeah, but those are error codes, those are DFCCs, component codes. All they say is "this component", which the text already elaborates. The actual error text is omitted. Notice the VCDS entry above those. A DFCC for the J756, but then the actual error, 004 - no signal/comms.

Well I just repaired my tailgate this morning.

With a bit more investigation and through process of elimination, I discovered that the tailgate was no longer soft closing and then the right hand motor was stopping its lift sequence ahead of the left (communication intermittency) and through that I was certain that i could conclude that the fault was in fact in the left hand lift motor.

I went ahead and ordered a new left tailgate lift motor with the master control module and swapped it out.
I did an adaptations reset by following the instructions on the Ross-Tech wiki (which I had tried on the original motors) and it is back to normal, fully functioning open and close...

And out of interest I replaced B revision motors, with a D revision for the master (Left) and a C revision for the slave (right) and they work together without any VCDS intervention.

[FlyingCowboy]

For anyone interested.

https://youtu.be/Y8qB2jolSpA

There is a video of the repair process