FYI, engine failure A5 SB

[jrsAudiA6]

In 2017 I bought my wife a 2018 A5 SB which after 2.5 years she managed to put over 45K miles on it. We also purchased AUDI care. In May of this year we had the APR stage 1 tune put on the car, the mileage was about 45K at the time. Fast forward to early October and my calls me to inform me that the CEL is on. I have her drive home immediately so I can determine the cause of the CEL. I find that cylinder 2 is misfiring. At this time the mileage is around 51.5K, so technically out of warranty. I arrange to have the dealer look at. To make a long story shorter number 2 piston had a piece of the piston land, between the bottom and middle ring broken. There are 2 vertical lines on the cylinder wall that you can feel when running your finger nail over them. Initially the dealer contacted AoA to inform them of the failure and after the dealer tore the engine down to find the failure, they sent pics to AoA for further evaluation. AoA instructed the dealer to perform a spec actual on the vehicle which resulted in AoA determining the vehicle is tuned and thus washed their hands from having any further involvement. My personnel opinion is that this piston land was going to fail at some point down the road and tune just accelerated the failure. I suspect that there was a latent defect in the piston casting. It's unfortunate AoA is unwilling to show any kind of good will in helping with the cost replacing the engine. The engine had only about 6-7K miles on it with the tune, which I could prove with paperwork, plus my wife does not drive the car in a spirited fashion like I tend to do with my 2012 A6, which is also heavily tuned with over 100K miles and has seen ver 3 dozen days at the track.

I am not looking for any sympathy since we both understood the risk when having the tune put on the car. This is just information that I think is of some value to the auto enthusiasts.

Still waiting on a new engine from Germany.

[A4 Centaur]

That sucks and is typical AoA BS. They rejected my Timing Chain work and receipts as well. Only going with a piggy-back tune from here on out when I get my S5 or RS5.

[RS5fvr]

Yikes. Sorry to hear mate.

What will the new engine set you back?

[303 Spartan]

That sucks and is typical AoA BS. They rejected my Timing Chain work and receipts as well. Only going with a piggy-back tune from here on out when I get my S5 or RS5.

It's a common misconception that piggybacks will prevent AoA from determining that the car was tuned. Keep in mind that a full diagnostic is still likely to uncover that the car exceeded target factory boost levels, as well as other parameters, which will look out of spec from the piggyback.

I've had this confirmed by a couple of techs over the years, including an Audi master tech. A piggyback, will be more difficult to uncover, but that doesn't mean it's untraceable and it's not a true fail-safe from running into AoA denying warranty coverage.

The only real way to remain covered is:

1) Don't tune
2) Get a tune that comes with a factory matching warranty

[chrisdazzo]

Get a tune that comes with a factory matching warranty

Best advice right here.

[MR_RS5_SB]

In this case however, a factory matching warranty unfortunately wouldn't have helped. Good luck with the new engine and hope you are out on the roads soon.

[wwhan]

... Get a tune that comes with a factory matching warranty

Best advice right here.

And sell the car before the warranty ends.

[303 Spartan]

And sell the car before the warranty ends.

Always.

[wwhan]

Yikes. Sorry to hear mate.

What will the new engine set you back?

Example price, which may be a different engine:

BASE ENGINE LONG BLOCK, 2018 Audi A5 2.0L, Engine Code CYMC, Part Number: 06L100034L....... MSRP: $10,085.31

Of course there are additional charges for labor, shipping and miscellaneous install parts.

[coolwater]

It's a common misconception that piggybacks will prevent AoA from determining that the car was tuned. Keep in mind that a full diagnostic is still likely to uncover that the car exceeded target factory boost levels, as well as other parameters, which will look out of spec from the piggyback.

I've had this confirmed by a couple of techs over the years, including an Audi master tech. A piggyback, will be more difficult to uncover, but that doesn't mean it's untraceable and it's not a true fail-safe from running into AoA denying warranty coverage.

The only real way to remain covered is:

1) Don't tune
2) Get a tune that comes with a factory matching warranty

There is also the aftermarket warranty option too. If you buy new and use the gecko. :)

-cW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RS5fvr]

Example price, which may be a different engine:

BASE ENGINE LONG BLOCK, 2018 Audi A5 2.0L, Engine Code CYMC, Part Number: 06L100034L....... MSRP: $10,085.31

Of course there are additional charges for labor, shipping and miscellaneous install parts.

If the dealership helps out a bit on MSRP pricing I'm sure you could go all in for 10K.

Man I'd hate to see the price for my RS5 but if it was only 10K I'd be ecstatic. Stage 1 plus I guess is the best way to enjoy these cars as mentioned above and get rid of prior to warranty expiration. TBH I've had nothing but headaches with all my german cars after the warranty is up that I would never even consider keeping a tuned one past the 4 years.

The best approach IMO is keeping it stock and enjoying it for what it is. I've found that I'm generally happier this way and frankly I would probably never use the added power(as it is already fairly stout) unless I'm just racing all the time on the highways.

[Zed 2.0]

I think OP is being reasonable about accepting the risk. It was an out-of-warranty engine with a tune. Audi just isn't going to cover that. He's also probably right that the tune didn't cause the failure (but might have exacerbated it). Bad luck.

[Andy_FL]

Curious - were you billed for the initial tear down ? Your timeline makes it sound like they only discovered the tune after "digging deeper" - I guess I always imagined the dealer to be able to see/find a tune pretty quickly after connecting their diagnostics.

[wwhan]

...Man I'd hate to see the price for my RS5 but if it was only 10K I'd be ecstatic. ......

Price example.....RS5 BASE ENGINE LONG BLOCK, 2.9L, 2018, 2019 coupe?, Part Number: 06M100032A.... MSRP: $18,042.62

[DCB1951]

Price example.....RS5 BASE ENGINE LONG BLOCK, 2.9L, 2018, 2019 coupe?, Part Number: 06M100032A.... MSRP: $18,042.62

FYI

[1flossedS4]

Man that stinks.

What's the estimated cost on the repair?

[wwhan]

FYI

Note as I mentioned it fits the 2019 RS5 Coupe.

"RS5 BASE ENGINE LONG BLOCK, 2.9L, 2018, 2019 coupe?, Part Number: 06M100032A.... MSRP: $18,042.62"

https://www.audihendersonparts.com/p...6M100032A.html

[DCB1951]

Note as I mentioned it fits the 2019 RS5 Coupe.

"RS5 BASE ENGINE LONG BLOCK, 2.9L, 2018, 2019 coupe?, Part Number: 06M100032A.... MSRP: $18,042.62"

https://www.audihendersonparts.com/p...6M100032A.html

Sorry - my bad.

[jrsAudiA6]

Man that stinks.

What's the estimated cost on the repair?

Currently 17K + which includes the replacement cost for the cylinders fuel injector.

Edit: Update

The dealer had to order the long block from Germany since the long block in the US was sold before they got their order placed. In any case the long block arrived last week on Thursday. It has been installed, just waiting on the the tech finishing the testing of the new engine. Was hoping to get it yesterday but was informed by SA that it is still not ready. Must be having some kind issue. Hopefully will get it today.

[1flossedS4]

Currently 17K + which includes the replacement cost for the cylinders fuel injector.

Edit: Update

The dealer had to order the long block from Germany since the long block in the US was sold before they got their order placed. In any case the long block arrived last week on Thursday. It has been installed, just waiting on the the tech finishing the testing of the new engine. Was hoping to get it yesterday but was informed by SA that it is still not ready. Must be having some kind issue. Hopefully will get it today.

Brutal dude. Anyway to of rebuilt it cheaper with aftermarket stuff?

[Gen8888]

That is unfortunate AoA is unwilling to help due to the tune, thanks for sharing the part failure for those who may encounter it in the future. It seems like this happens more often than not with many luxury brands where the cars coming off their warranty periods has some kind of failure. Unlucky or brilliantly planned by the manufacturers hmm...

[RS5fvr]

That is unfortunate AoA is unwilling to help due to the tune, thanks for sharing the part failure for those who may encounter it in the future. It seems like this happens more often than not with many luxury brands where the cars coming off their warranty periods has some kind of failure. Unlucky or brilliantly planned by the manufacturers hmm...

It's kinda like the phone world when you update and everything crashes/slows down to the point it makes more sense to get a new phone. Considering everything these days are computers it wouldn't surprise me.

[jrsAudiA6]

Brutal dude. Anyway to of rebuilt it cheaper with aftermarket stuff?

I did find a company that sells a beefed up GEN3 engine but they require a good block as a core for the purchase. The block on the A5 had 2 vertical scores on the number 2 cylinder wall, so no good for a core.

[jrsAudiA6]

That is unfortunate AoA is unwilling to help due to the tune, thanks for sharing the part failure for those who may encounter it in the future. It seems like this happens more often than not with many luxury brands where the cars coming off their warranty periods has some kind of failure. Unlucky or brilliantly planned by the manufacturers hmm...

What is interesting is I have had my 2012 A6 tuned with stage 2 for about 7 years. It has over 100K miles and I have had no issues other than one thermostat failure (covered under warranty) and I am now on my fourth water pump. Also had the stock crank pulley separate on me 2 years ago. I just replaced the crank pulley with 034's 179mm single piece crank pulley. My 3L supercharged engine has been rock solid and has seen over 36+ track days. So, now it is tuned with dual pulley, updated dual pulley GIAC tune and transmission tuned to shift at 7300 rpm. I guess it is like computer CPU's with overclocking (i.e. silicon lottery) vs. engine quality lottery.

[wwhan]

.......I guess it is like computer CPU's with overclocking (i.e. silicon lottery) vs. engine quality lottery.

+1, defect rates are never low enough in the automotive business. It somewhat depends on engineering design margin & incoming quality control from suppliers.

Some 2.0T engine technical details....

(date 2016) SSP 920163 Third Gen 2p0T TFSI EA888 engines: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...05867-2280.pdf

(date 2013) SSP 920243 The Audi 2.0L Third Generation EA888 Engine: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...22162-9999.pdf

"The cylinder block has been significantly revised to save weight. The wall thickness has been reduced from approximately 0.13 in (3.5 mm) to 0.11 in (3.0 mm)."

(date 2015) Audi SSP 644 -> A4 B9 SSP. A lot of things here are applicable to the B9 A5 too.

[1flossedS4]

What is interesting is I have had my 2012 A6 tuned with stage 2 for about 7 years. It has over 100K miles and I have had no issues other than one thermostat failure (covered under warranty) and I am now on my fourth water pump. Also had the stock crank pulley separate on me 2 years ago. I just replaced the crank pulley with 034's 179mm single piece crank pulley. My 3L supercharged engine has been rock solid and has seen over 36+ track days. So, now it is tuned with dual pulley, updated dual pulley GIAC tune and transmission tuned to shift at 7300 rpm. I guess it is like computer CPU's with overclocking (i.e. silicon lottery) vs. engine quality lottery.

I had an A6 3.0t that is a GREAT motor. Loved that car. Only issues they have are waterpump and thermostate usually. Motor mounts go bad too. I'd buy another in a heartbeat for a daily.

[Jprieur]

Price example.....RS5 BASE ENGINE LONG BLOCK, 2.9L, 2018, 2019 coupe?, Part Number: 06M100032A.... MSRP: $18,042.62

Damn, the RS5 engine costs less than a set of ceramic brake rotors. . .

[wwhan]

Damn, the RS5 engine costs less than a set of ceramic brake rotors. . .

Well no, there are only two front Ceramic Composite Brake rotors (the rear ones are iron).

A single disc brake rotor. Ceramic Composite Brakes. Audi Part Number: 4K0615301D, MSRP = $5,565.71 each

~ $11,131.42 for a pair.

[Jprieur]

Well no, there are only two front Ceramic Composite Brake rotors (the rear ones are iron).

A single disc brake rotor. Ceramic Composite Brakes. Audi Part Number: 4K0615301D, MSRP = $5,565.71 each

~ $11,131.42 for a pair.

Whoops, I didn’t realize the rears weren’t ceramic.

[jrsAudiA6]

If your interested, here is an update on the saga of replacing the 2.0t in my wife's 2018 A5SB. The dealer has now order, about a week ago, a third engine from Audi. the first 2 new engines had problems when they were checking it out after installation. Hopefully the 3rd new engine will be thec harm one. lol

The dealer has also flashed the ECU back to stock , with my permission, during their checkout of the 2nd new engine. Going to leave it stock at least for the 12 month 12K mile warranty that comes with the new engine.

[c99]

Typical cause for this is LSPI (Low Speed Pre-Ignition), big problem of TFSI or all direct injection engines.

Probably APR tune did make the drive on the edge, or behind the edge.

2012 A6 has no problems, because the engine is from different time, when engines was done on safe side with reserves yet.