Engine swap - which engine do I choose?!

[Christianmacart]

Hey everyone,

I've got a 2010 B8 Avant with an engine (2.0t CAEB/CAED) that's done for. I'm planning on replacing the engine with a B8.5, either 2015 or 2016, both CPMA/CPMB. The 2015 is from a Q5 and has a 5th digit of "F" on the vin - same as my current engine. The 2016 engine, also from a Q5, has a 5th digit vin "2". I'd prefer to get the latter because it has less miles and is only slightly more expensive, however, I want to make sure it is compatible. I've read up on the other users who have successfully completed the B8 to B8.5 swap, but I believe they did so with a Vin "F" for the 5th digit.

Thanks everyone, will be posting the build in December!

[Theiceman]

i will leave this to the guys who have done this , but care to share some details on what done for ! means ? is it oil consumption ? chain tensioner failure ??? just good for the stats really

[Smac770]

Unless they radically changed the engine codes from 2009-2015 for 2016, F is the 2.0T I4 (R4 in German) and 2 is the 4.0T V8. 8 would be the code for the 2.0T in the Q5 hybrid. Are you sure that 2 is correct?

[Christianmacart]

Yup, it was taking in a quart of oil every 200 miles or so. Audi/local Euro repair shop quoted a rebuild @ $13k, which as we know might only temporarily fix the issue.

[Christianmacart]

I've only been looking at the CPMA/CPMB engines, which from my research are 2.0t. I found a 2015 Q5 that had 5th digit vin F and a 2016 Q5 w/ 5th digit 2, but the engines are the same other than that. So I'm not sure that the 2 correlates to in the US

[Theiceman]

Yup, it was taking in a quart of oil every 200 miles or so. Audi/local Euro repair shop quoted a rebuild @ $13k, which as we know might only temporarily fix the issue.

actually we are finding the opposite .. there are no guarantees a replacement will fix it as the newer engines are starting to show the issues. where as the upgraded pistons seem to be working out fine.. but 13K for a rebuild is highway robbery, literally

[Misticvega]

Definitely don't pay the 13k for a rebuild. I swapped for what I think is a CPMB (from a 2016 A4). Also stole the 7,000 miles turbo from the car. All in all, 4k total cost (did it myself though). Could probably get a shop to do it for 7-8k?

[MyDimeIsUp]

If you can, a 3.0 Supercharged would be cool in an avant. If not, a CPMB should work with a ZF8

[Theiceman]

Definitely don't pay the 13k for a rebuild. I swapped for what I think is a CPMB (from a 2016 A4). Also stole the 7,000 miles turbo from the car. All in all, 4k total cost (did it myself though). Could probably get a shop to do it for 7-8k?

still crazy when you think at least a sedan is hardly worth even that

[Smac770]

"2016 Q5 w/ 5th digit 2". If it has a US VIN, it's US spec. Because non-US have ZZZ ... maybe it was a Z and misread as a 2? No US B8 has a 2 for the engine "digit".

The actual engine code is far more important than the VIN letter anyway. Because US spec in those years, it'll be CAED or CPMB. Both can be put into your car, but both will require some adjustments. And the necessary adjustments will differ for the two different engine codes. Non-US, could be a number of engine codes which may or may not work.

[AutoUnionNH]

I swapped a 48k mile 2017 Q5 CPMB into my '09 A4 Avant replacing the CAEB. Its a straight forward swap and has been well documented on this forum - only a few parts from the old motor need to be put on the new. So far so good and I have a little over 10k miles on it since the swap (58k total miles on the motor).

[RoadRage]

4.0TT

[AutoUnionNH]

OK, I'll play -

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ight=s4+engine

[Christianmacart]

That is the plan, swap in a CPMB and work w a mechanic so I can get some hands-on experience and save some cash.

[Theiceman]

That is the plan, swap in a CPMB and work w a mechanic so I can get some hands-on experience and save some cash.

im not sure how that works,,, working with someone it takes me longer as they typically just get in the way ..

if they want to save cash just tell we what you want, bring me the parts and go home.

[hardfive]

OK, I'll play -

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ight=s4+engine

You could buy a wreck for that price and get the info on where everything goes. If you haven't done this, its gonna be overwhelming figuring out what goes where. Better to buy the wreck, learn everything you can documenting as you dismantle, and then put it back together.

Definitely suggest the 3.0t. Excluding the HP/speed reasons, its just a much better engine reliability wise.

[RoadRage]

You could buy a wreck for that price and get the info on where everything goes. If you haven't done this, its gonna be overwhelming figuring out what goes where. Better to buy the wreck, learn everything you can documenting as you dismantle, and then put it back together.

Definitely suggest the 3.0t. Excluding the HP/speed reasons, its just a much better engine reliability wise.

Engine goes in front under the hood. pretty easy if you ask me

[hardfive]

Yup. case closed. easiest swap ever.

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Christianmacart]

Did you document your swap at all? Would love to hear if you came across any issues during the build

[hardfive]

Did you document your swap at all? Would love to hear if you came across any issues during the build

click on the link in my signature

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Christianmacart]

Alright, little update. So I purchased a 2016 CPMB engine w/ 45k miles out of a Q5 - going to start the swap in two weeks. Currently I'm planning to add an AFE filter and a turbo inlet hose, and down the road hopefully either an APR stage 1 ECU tune/Chipwerkes Pro and a new intercooler. Does anyone have any other recommendations? I'm working with a pretty tight budget (poor college kid) but wanna take any preventative measures now.

[hardfive]

Thermostat and water pump. Id do high flow cat when I had it all apart. Will make a ko4 upgrade down the line easier, and can get you some more power even while stock/stage 1.

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Christianmacart]

Got it, should I look into a down pipe / HFC combo or just HFC?

[hardfive]

Got it, should I look into a down pipe / HFC combo or just HFC?

The nuts holding the cat to the downpipe are likely gonna be rusted pretty good and might have to be cut off so a Hfc and downpipe may save you a bit of time/frustration here.

It would be easier to do both but if money is tight the downpipe can be done later on jackstands no problem.

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[hardfive]

Get new motor mounts too. Id go solid rubber aftermarket but even new oem style would be good. Never gonna have an easier chance.

You can buy Non-audi branded oem lemforder mounts for 100 each online which is cheapest option.

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Christianmacart]

I asked for the motor mounts from the donor vehicle w 45k miles - think these are good enough? Or should I bite the bullet and snag the lemforders / 034s?

[AutoUnionNH]

Good choice on the motor (2016 CPMB engine w/ 45k miles out of a Q5). This has the updates you are looking for and should be good. I did the same. Before you start - pull the plug to check the timing chain tensioner and count the number of ribs showing (peace of mind thing !). As to what to do while in there - fit a new rear main seal (iABED recommended), replace the water pump and radiator, replace the oil filter drain back valve under the oil filter and get a new seal for the Oil Filter Housing. Don't forget to get new engine mount bolts for that connect the motor to the transmission (another VW/AOA masterpiece - they are stretch bolts!). Motor mounts are also good to do given the easy access. Same with the starter motor. Label, label and label every connection ! Take your time. On startup and run in, change the oil often as the engine may have been sitting for some time. Think of it as a break in period. And finally, if upgrades are in the plan, do the work now (high flow cat, turbo, etc.) as the access is never going to be better. The only caveat is, putting in a stock engine and keeping it stock is going to lesson the troubleshooting risk vs making all the upgrade changes and trying to figure out a problem afterwards if it doesn't run right. Food for thought!

[Theiceman]

personally the only thing i would do is make sure the water pump is not leaking. and i doubt it is after only 45K but definitely worth a look. I/m not convinced the IE8ED is the be all and end all and if it is worth the money but its not a bad product but i would definitely replace the RMS.

engine -transmission bolts can be reused once. just put an X on them to identify they have been used.

the rest is just personal choice and is not required IMO .

[AutoUnionNH]

Agreed - most of the list I posted is personal choice. I guess I should have provided some perspective in that I was replacing an engine on car with 164k New England miles, hence the refresh and parts list.

[Theiceman]

holy crap ! im surpised there was anything left of the car to put an engine in . Your winters are as bad if not worse than ours.

[hardfive]

I asked for the motor mounts from the donor vehicle w 45k miles - think these are good enough? Or should I bite the bullet and snag the lemforders / 034s?

Mounts on a 16 are 6 or 7 years old. Id be worried about rubber failing and eventually ripping not mileage.

I bought new ones when I did my swap just because its a hassle to do, and something I would likely delay as much as possible down the line since it doesesnt keep car from running. Save future me from the hassel. I get wanting to save money where you can but to me it just doesent make sense to skip. Frw sets of used mounts in classifieds right now.

Solid rubber ones from 034 would be bulletproof. s4 mounts same as a4 which make me think the BFI ones in the s4 section would also work but since there design is different Id ask BFI to be sure.

The rear main seal and looking at the timing both good ideas.



Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Christianmacart]

Currently in the process of snagging some 034's and possibly a CTS HFC. I'll look at the RMS right now. For that, do I just need to replace the rubber part, or the housing for the seal as well?

One other random question that just came to mind - I know that I'll have to swap over the intake manifold from the B8 to use on the CPMB, but I'm a bit confused as to what to do with the fuel injectors. I know they often get stuck in the block or sometimes get pulled out with the intake manifold. I'm assuming I should just leave the stock fuel injectors in the B8.5 and only take over the manifold?

[AutoUnionNH]

The OEM RMS is a one piece assembly. The seal is not removable from the stamped metal. The iABED does have a replaceable seal and as Theiceman mentioned, this is a "nice to have" RMS that no one will ever see. I have to agree there isn't much in the way of data to differentiate this seal from the OEM, though it is a fairly substantive product and I haven't had any issues with mine. Its now been in two motors (the original CAEB and went approx 70k miles without issue) and my new CPMB (with a new seal fitted of course) for approx 12k miles. I'm sure porting the RMS from one engine to another is going to be a rarity to say the least. Regarding the intake manifold, my experience has been the fuel injectors almost always come loose when removing the manifold. There are many places to buy the seal kits and they aren't that expensive, though I would recommend an injector service kit (it allows the injectors to be removed and installed safely as well as the seal to be slid onto the injector without damage). Look on Amazon and Ebay for a cheap kit. I kept the CPMB injectors that came with the motor and put my CAEB injectors on the shelf as spares should I ever need them.

[AutoUnionNH]

Theiceman - I've been spent a fair amount of time in your neck of the woods (Ontario, CA) and have to say its not a walk in park up there either. I clearly remember years ago I was driving in the winter from Montreal to Ottawa in my Audi Q Coupe and kept coming close to hitting my head on ceiling from the frost heaves! I didn't have many kind words to say on that trip. Some of that may have been on me as the Q Coupe was heavily modded with sport springs, delrin bushings, Porsche Big Reds, etc. etc. As for the Avant, the old girl is still hanging in there. I'm happy to say rust, surprisingly, hasn't been an issue.

[Christianmacart]

I found a few OEM ones but they say TSI-specific, and my current and replacement engines are both TFSI. Do those who replaced their seals, where did you find the part at and fir how much?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[AutoUnionNH]

For the injector seal kits, typically I either go ECS, FCP Euro or even the local VW or Audi Dealer. There typically isn't a huge price difference among them.

For the injector tool set, I picked up a kit on Amazon.

[lorduvtherings]

Why not get a s4 b7 engine? That’s a real nice swap lots of extra power, Pretty straight forward just need a running s4


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Theiceman]

Why not get a s4 b7 engine? That’s a real nice swap lots of extra power, Pretty straight forward just need a running s4


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

a B7S4 is a very nice machine .. seems sacrilege to destroy one to get a B8 running

[Smac770]

If you want a 4.2L, would not the one from the B8.0 S5 coupe be more likely to swap in directly?

[Christianmacart]

Why not get a s4 b7 engine? That’s a real nice swap lots of extra power, Pretty straight forward just need a running s4


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

Unfortunately I don’t have the Capital, time or knowledge to do that swap. Currently just trying to get the car up and running


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum