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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Does anyone know the crossover frequencies for the non-B&O speakers?

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    I'm trying to find out what the crossover frequencies are for the various speakers used in the non-B&O audio system (Audi Concert). I'm mainly concerned with the woofers in the front doors and the three speakers across the dash, with the two outer speakers being tweeters and the center being a midrange speaker. The tweeters are rated at 8 ohms and use a 10 uF capacitor so that means it has a 2 kHz high pass filter. The center dash speaker is a midrange driver and has no capacitor so I assume it's being used as a full range speaker with a natural roll-off at an upper and lower frequency instead of using a bandpass filter. I am mostly interested in knowing what the lower crossover point is for the center dash speaker as well as the upper crossover frequency for the mid-bass speakers in the front doors.

    Here are the various crossover frequencies for the B&O speakers in case anyone's interested:

    https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...B-amp-O-system

  2. #2
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    You can test this in two ways yourself. Disconnect all the other speakers except the one you are interested in and run a sweep with a measurement mic measuring the response. However what I found was doing it this way means you are also measuring the frequency response of the actual speaker too.
    So the method I used was to actually connect the speaker wires directly into an RTA and measure that. This way you are looking at what how the HU is actively applying a cross over. That was how I worked out that the centre channel in my B9 is indeed band passed.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_miranda View Post
    You can test this in two ways yourself. Disconnect all the other speakers except the one you are interested in and run a sweep with a measurement mic measuring the response. However what I found was doing it this way means you are also measuring the frequency response of the actual speaker too.
    So the method I used was to actually connect the speaker wires directly into an RTA and measure that. This way you are looking at what how the HU is actively applying a cross over. That was how I worked out that the centre channel in my B9 is indeed band passed.
    Yeah, except I don't really want to go tearing my car apart to disconnect speakers to test their frequency response. I was hoping that someone else had done this for the Audi Concert system the same way it was done for the B&O system. It's not that I'm lazy as I intend to upgrade my entire system when I find the time. I just have too many things going on right now to devote any time to this. I'm trying to find the right value capacitor that will allow me to use the best high pass filter point to mesh the Dayton Audio RS75-8 speakers with the mid-bass drivers in the door rather than just use a 10 uF capacitor like the ones used for the tweeters. That value is fine if I'm only looking to replace just the tweeters in the dash, but I'm mainly concerned that I may be missing some of the lower midrange frequencies in the process by using the same value for the driver that is replacing the center midrange speaker. Right now I'm just experimenting with capacitor values to see if I can find the sweet spot that provides the best overall sound.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Three Rings Bobby Kinstle's Avatar
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    When I did it in my car, I left everything together and put my measurement mic through the hole in the bottom of a clay plant pot filled with foam. Then I placed that over the speaker to help isolate it from the rest of the speakers. This worked well enough to see the crossover points on most of the speakers with the exception of the speakers under the front and rear windows because I couldn't fit the clay pot under the glass (especially the rear because I was worried about scratching the tint film) and also the front door midrange because the front door woofer was sending vibrations up the panel and throwing off the measurements.

    To Bruce's point, I noticed the front door woofer falls off well above the channel frequency. To the ear it barely plays below 70Hz, and the measurement mic still showed some response into the 50s but when I was sending test tones to the subwoofer, I noticed the door panel was vibrating below 50hz so I went back to "feel" the vibrations at lower frequencies and that's how I found the channel's lower cut off frequency. Luckily for me it's a really hard stop, the kind that can only exist in DSP programming. It still begs the question why they programmed the channel to play frequencies well below the driver's capability when they had the option to cut it anywhere they wanted.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    The entire sound system seems to have put together by atleast 3 people who didn't talk to each other. Which is why I say that playing around with the crossover frequencies can result in some surprisingly brilliant results, as opposed to simply replacing a speaker and then sticking the same capacitor that Audi had in there. @captain_video you should experiment with a few lower crossover points for your dashboard replacement speakers. Driving a lovely full range RS75 as a tweeter is a wasted opportunity. Letting it play some midrange will lift the entire sound stage. That then gives you more flexibility to concentrate on the low end for the door woofers.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_miranda View Post
    The entire sound system seems to have put together by atleast 3 people who didn't talk to each other. Which is why I say that playing around with the crossover frequencies can result in some surprisingly brilliant results, as opposed to simply replacing a speaker and then sticking the same capacitor that Audi had in there. @captain_video you should experiment with a few lower crossover points for your dashboard replacement speakers. Driving a lovely full range RS75 as a tweeter is a wasted opportunity. Letting it play some midrange will lift the entire sound stage. That then gives you more flexibility to concentrate on the low end for the door woofers.
    I agree 100%. When I swapped out the 4 ohm speakers for the 8-ohm versions using the same 10 uF capacitor, it lowered the crossover frequency from 4 kHz to 2 kHz and it did exactly what you described. The sound stage opened up and everything was more defined. The imaging improved noticeably. I've ordered some other value capacitors to experiment with to lower the crossover point even more. Now I just have to find the time to play around with it. I just started building a new deck out back and it's keeping me pretty busy.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Three Rings Bobby Kinstle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_miranda View Post
    The entire sound system seems to have put together by atleast 3 people who didn't talk to each other.
    You left out the part where they snorted a line of cocaine shaped like Germany and then had sex in the ASK speaker parts bin until 19 random speakers were stuck to them.

    I still need to find the time to get my tweeters in. I'm lowering the crossover points to 4K.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
    I agree 100%. When I swapped out the 4 ohm speakers for the 8-ohm versions using the same 10 uF capacitor, it lowered the crossover frequency from 4 kHz to 2 kHz and it did exactly what you described. The sound stage opened up and everything was more defined. The imaging improved noticeably. I've ordered some other value capacitors to experiment with to lower the crossover point even more. Now I just have to find the time to play around with it. I just started building a new deck out back and it's keeping me pretty busy.
    I did alert you to that fact quite early on to try different capacitor values. On the 8ohm versions of these speakers I would start with say a 47uf which is a pretty std value. And then lower those sightly. The only issue with RS75s are the low power handling, and so with a passive -6dB slope you want be absolutely sure you are filtering out the low end. 33uf will be a pretty safe alternative, and that in itself will make a massive difference rather than the 10uf you are currently running with.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_miranda View Post
    I did alert you to that fact quite early on to try different capacitor values. On the 8ohm versions of these speakers I would start with say a 47uf which is a pretty std value. And then lower those sightly. The only issue with RS75s are the low power handling, and so with a passive -6dB slope you want be absolutely sure you are filtering out the low end. 33uf will be a pretty safe alternative, and that in itself will make a massive difference rather than the 10uf you are currently running with.
    Yes you did, and I appreciate your inputs. I was just going with what had been tried before and the results seemed to be agreeable with everyone that had used the 10 uF caps. I was using the approach that if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but knowing that the Daytons are capable of so much more than just being tweeters simply won't allow me to do that. I've already procured several different value capacitors to experiment with. I think the 47 uF value will probably work best with the 8-ohm drivers as it will act as a 420 Hz high pass filter. A 33 uF value would cross over at around 600 Hz, which would probably be the next best alternative. For the 4-ohm versions an 80 uF cap would give me a 500 Hz HPF and the 68 uF cap would act as a 580 Hz HPF. I really wish I had a B&O system to play around with, but I suppose I could try the 4-ohm speakers in my non-B&O setup. I'm concerned about the overall balance in sound because it will probably affect the sound level of those driver locations so it will be harder to evaluate them accurately.

    The biggest issue I see is that these capacitors are considerably larger than the tiny 10 uF caps I have been using. I'll have to fabricate all new wiring harnesses to allow the caps to be tucked out of the way instead of being able to hide then next to the speaker terminals. I just wish I had more free time to devote to this for a proper evaluation.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    UPDATE: I just replaced the 10 uF capacitors on my 8-ohm speakers with 47 uF capacitors and it does make a huge difference. The high pass filter crossover is now at around 420 Hz instead of 2 kHz. I'm not sure what I was thinking and I replaced the capacitor in the center speaker too, which is a 4-ohm speaker. That lowered the crossover to about 850 Hz. I probably should have used an 80 uF capacitor to lower it to 500 Hz so all three speakers would be more uniform in response. There's way more bass in the front of the car now and the sound is fuller and richer. I've only done some brief listening so this is just a preliminary impression. I'll need to get the car on the road and listen to more different types of music to see how they sound. I have the Alpine X701D-A4 head unit and it has multiple presets for equalization settings. I'll have to evaluate it with different settings to see how it sounds overall. I don't know what the Audi Concert or B&O systems may have setup as far as any type of equalization so I can only go by how it sounds with my system. There's a flat setting so that may be the best one to use for my listening tests.

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Three Rings Bobby Kinstle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
    I just wish I had more free time to devote to this for a proper evaluation.
    I feel you there. Someone went and released a new GPU and I've ben so busy at work that I don't have time for car projects.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    I'm guessing you're referring to the latest Nvidia RTX 30 series GPUs. I heard that there are some issues with them depending on which model you have. The capacitors they use in the center of the card come in two flavors. I believe there are something like six banks of capacitors in the center of the board. If they primarily use the cheap capacitors in most of the positions it can cause problems. Check out this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6bUUEEe-X8

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Three Rings Bobby Kinstle's Avatar
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    Yes I am. The biggest issue for me is that there isn't a standard PCB layout as much as there has been in the past. As far as the caps go, most of them are using the high cost tantalum solid caps, but a few are using lower cost electrolytic caps which are much larger and harder to wrok around and will fail sooner but so far those cards appear to have less audible capacitor-inductor resonations also known as "coil whine" or "coil hiss". My work mainly focuses around PC cooling and since both Intel and nVidia have decided that power limits are for chumps, and TDP is merely a marketing bullet, well life has been pretty interesting for me to say the least. Oh also the memory is WAY hotter than previous generations so some cards like the 3090 with memory on the back side need actual heat sinking so the cosmetic cover on the PCB suddenly now has heat pipes and actual fins on it too.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Why bother with any capacitor in the centre speaker? Its being actively crossed over by the HU. So why limit it?

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Three Rings Bobby Kinstle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_miranda View Post
    Why bother with any capacitor in the centre speaker? Its being actively crossed over by the HU. So why limit it?
    in fact you should not use a capacitor in the center location because it will change the phase of the tweeter and it will no longer be in alignment with the mid-range center

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Audizine Forum mobile app

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_miranda View Post
    Why bother with any capacitor in the centre speaker? Its being actively crossed over by the HU. So why limit it?
    I was never sure if the head unit was actively crossing over the center speaker or not considering the tweeters both had capacitors attached to them, although I had assumed that was the case due to the lack of any crossover components attached to the speaker. Everything I know about these systems is based on what others have done before me so I'm just following their lead. I have learned a lot more about these systems as time progresses and it appears that I still have more to learn. In my case, I'm using an Alpine X701D-A4 head unit so I'm not sure if it's providing an active crossover frequency to the center speaker or not. I am going to be using different capacitor values for each of the dash speakers so they cover more of the frequency spectrum than before rather than just going with the 10 uF capacitor to cross over the 4-ohm speakers at 4 kHz and the 8-ohm versions at 2 kHz. The midrange speaker in the center of the dash uses a bandpass filter from 500 Hz to 12 kHz in the B&O system. I have no idea what's used in the non-B&O setup. The reason for using a capacitor in the center location is because others have reported that the Daytons distort if you don't use it with a high pass filter and just let it run full range. Right now I have the two 8-ohm speakers in the dash connected to 47 uF capacitors and the center connected to an 80 uF cap. This is in the non-B&O system. I haven't had a chance to do any long term listening to see how they sound, but so far they sound pretty good and are a definite improvement over the previous configuration.

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    Veteran Member Three Rings Bobby Kinstle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
    I was never sure if the head unit was actively crossing over the center speaker or not considering the tweeters both had capacitors attached to them, although I had assumed that was the case due to the lack of any crossover components attached to the speaker. Everything I know about these systems is based on what others have done before me so I'm just following their lead. I have learned a lot more about these systems as time progresses and it appears that I still have more to learn. In my case, I'm using an Alpine X701D-A4 head unit so I'm not sure if it's providing an active crossover frequency to the center speaker or not. I am going to be using different capacitor values for each of the dash speakers so they cover more of the frequency spectrum than before rather than just going with the 10 uF capacitor to cross over the 4-ohm speakers at 4 kHz and the 8-ohm versions at 2 kHz. The midrange speaker in the center of the dash uses a bandpass filter from 500 Hz to 12 kHz in the B&O system. I have no idea what's used in the non-B&O setup. The reason for using a capacitor in the center location is because others have reported that the Daytons distort if you don't use it with a high pass filter and just let it run full range. Right now I have the two 8-ohm speakers in the dash connected to 47 uF capacitors and the center connected to an 80 uF cap. This is in the non-B&O system. I haven't had a chance to do any long term listening to see how they sound, but so far they sound pretty good and are a definite improvement over the previous configuration.
    The center in my B&O plays well below 500Hz. I'd say 250hz is probably more like it

    In the B&O only a few tweeters have filter caps on them, and none of the other drivers do, which means they are either letting them run all the way up to 20KHz and hoping the driver will roll off on it's own, or limiting the frequency in the B&O amp.

    The thing about adding caps as filters is that they delay the phase by 90 degrees. If you add a low pass filter to the woofer (mid) with an inductor, this advances the phase by 90 degrees and so it creates a dip where the two cross over where they cancel each other out. This isn't always bad and can help sharpen the roll off point, but if you have a cap on the tweeter and nothing on the woofer, then you can get some pretty funky overlap between the woofer and the tweeter when they overlap and the tweeter is 1/4 sine behind the woofer. In car systems where the tweeter is in a very different place from the woofer you can get away with this because you'll never get phase alignment anyway, but if the two drivers are right next to each other, like in the center channel you will get some undesired overlap.

    Linkwitz Riley 4th order uber alles

  18. #18
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    The reason the car uses capacitors on some channels is because you will notice that those channels happen to have atleast 2 speakers on them connected in parallel so the capacitor is acting as a poor man's crossover. Any speaker that is directly driven on its own by the HU or the B&O amp will have no capacitor on them, as the HU / B&O amp will be actively crossing them over as part of its DSP. The fact that you have a centre speakers means there is a DSP at play within your HU, so let it do its job. In any case the Dayton that you added is definitely more capable than the OEM driver it replaced.

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Interesting. So you're both saying that I should leave the capacitor off the center speaker and let the head unit provide the correct frequencies? I have often wondered why the tweeters had caps and the center speaker didn't. I only added it because that's what others had done before and I went with their recommendations. What you're saying about the speakers being connected in parallel and using a capacitor makes perfect sense. I'll give that a try and see how it goes.

    FWIW, the crossover frequency that was measured by another user for the center speaker indicates a bandpass filter from 500 Hz to 12 kHz. Apparently all three speakers in the dash for the B&O system are midrange speakers, with the two outer speakers using a high pass filter at 250 Hz. The tweeters are located in the sail panels at each side. The non-B&O system has two tweeters at the outer edges of the dash and a midrange in the center, but no tweeters in the sail panels. Looking at photos of the B&O center speaker it does not appear to have a capacitor connected. I have one of the outer midrange speakers and it doesn't have a capacitor either. So far, the only dash speakers that I can confirm having capacitors are the two tweeters in the non-B&O system, and they both have the 10 uF caps. The more I get into this, the more confusing it gets. I'm starting to wonder if any of the speakers other than the non-B&O tweeters require a capacitor.

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Three Rings Bobby Kinstle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
    Interesting. So you're both saying that I should leave the capacitor off the center speaker and let the head unit provide the correct frequencies? I have often wondered why the tweeters had caps and the center speaker didn't. I only added it because that's what others had done before and I went with their recommendations. What you're saying about the speakers being connected in parallel and using a capacitor makes perfect sense. I'll give that a try and see how it goes.

    FWIW, the crossover frequency that was measured by another user for the center speaker indicates a bandpass filter from 500 Hz to 12 kHz. Apparently all three speakers in the dash for the B&O system are midrange speakers, with the two outer speakers using a high pass filter at 250 Hz. The tweeters are located in the sail panels at each side. The non-B&O system has two tweeters at the outer edges of the dash and a midrange in the center, but no tweeters in the sail panels. Looking at photos of the B&O center speaker it does not appear to have a capacitor connected. I have one of the outer midrange speakers and it doesn't have a capacitor either. So far, the only dash speakers that I can confirm having capacitors are the two tweeters in the non-B&O system, and they both have the 10 uF caps. The more I get into this, the more confusing it gets. I'm starting to wonder if any of the speakers other than the non-B&O tweeters require a capacitor.
    The main thing about the cap is that it prevents low frequencies that would damage the tweeter from entering the driver. Since larger drivers don't need to worry about normal bass frequencies (obviously a small driver will over drive if played too hard and too low) they don't face instant death like a tweeter does. Combined with that many larger speakers naturally fade off and stop playing frequencies above a certain point, car companies often omit the low pass filter to save cost. This isn't always a good thing for issues like phasing as I mentioned before, but it can also be a very bad thing because many larger speakers do have a high frequency response that it highly distorted or peaking at certain harmonics above it's rated "usable" range. This is especially true on paper speakers. Another problem with not using a low pass inductor is that the entire frequency range of power is flowing through the driver. Even though it can't play those frequencies, the electricity still flows through it which steals power from the tweeter, and puts a heavier load on the amplifier.

    So if the tweeter doesn't have a cap on it, don't add one because it will change its behavior. Sometimes caps exist also just to block DC if the amp has a loud thump when you turn it on or off. If the speaker does have a cap you should use one, but you have the opportunity to change it's behavior to something you want.

    The 3rd case is the midrange speakers. You can add a cap to limit the lower frequency response, but I would only do so if it's a problem. IE it's too loud in the bass range, or it's buzzing badly, or being overdriven. If the dash speaker is being driven on the same channel as another speaker, it's often a good idea to filter it above the point where the impedance starts rising so you don't put too much load on your amp.

    Regarding the frequency response of the center, I measured 250 to also around 12K, but that was for BOTH the tweeter and midrange on at the same time as it was more trouble than I was willing to put forth to isolate them from each other.

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    I understand what the capacitor is for. I was into high end home audio for over 40 years and I was also working towards a EE degree until I decided to change my major. I've also done quite a few custom car audio installations over the years, but this is the first time I've tried to shoehorn a mod into a factory setup. I was just a bit confused as to why the outer two speakers used capacitors and the center speaker did not. Now that I know that the DSP in the head unit is handling the crossover frequencies it all makes perfect sense now. I just got done replacing the 47 uF capacitors in the two outer speakers with 10 uF caps and have removed the capacitor from the center speaker altogether. I just did a cursory listening test to make sure there was no distortion from the center speaker and so far, so good. I'm heading over to my daughter's house in a while so I can listen for a longer period for a better evaluation. I changed the equalization curve back to a flat response so it's not enhanced in any way. My Alpine head unit has about ten different EQ presets for various types of music, but since the Audi Concert or B&O systems don't have the same presets I figured it would be best to test them with as little equalization as possible to get a better feel for the sound improvement.

    If you check the link in my first post you'll see that the two outer speakers in the dash for the B&O system have high pass filters staring at 250 Hz, which is why you're seeing that value.

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    You are at risk of confusing two totally different set ups between the B&O and the non B&O. The B&O amps have the ability to drive more channels independently. So those speakers and tweeters don't use capacitors. However the B&O amp also only has a fixed number of channels and so runs a few of those channels with a couple of drivers in parallel. You will find a capacitor on those tweeters only. No where else will a B&O car have any other passive crossover components.
    One look at the wiring diagram for a B&O and non B&O car would have told you that, rather than trying to guess.
    I've attached the diagrams for the previous generation A4.
    Attached Images
    Last edited by bruce_miranda; 10-26-2020 at 02:15 PM.

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    Oh and to answer you very first question, I think the door woofers actually get a near full range signal from the HU and the drivers play as low as they possibly can and then as high as they can go. The OEM dashboard tweeters that are connected in parallel are set to 2K high pass in an attempt to try and lift the sound stage up a bit while taking over from the door woofers. But it's all not executed very well. In Europe there is a version even below the base US version that doesn't even come with a Centre speaker and a subwoofer.
    In the B&O car's the dashboard end speakers are emphasised when the various surround and 3D modes are chosen, not during normal play back and hence why on the B&O cars you shouldn't add capacitors to the dashboard end speakers if the OEM ones didn't have them.

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Thanks for the diagrams. They are extremely helpful in seeing how the amplifier outputs are distributed. I was already aware that each system had different numbers of channels. I just wasn't sure how the signals were distributed or crossed over. I would never have thought to check a wiring diagram for a capacitor unless it was a standalone module and not integrated into a device like the speaker. I spent over 40 years generating technical manuals, mainly for DoD contracts, and most of them contained wiring diagrams. Wiring diagrams generally just show the connections between units and not individual components. That's what schematic diagrams are for. Since the capacitors in question are actually in between the connector and the speaker terminals I would never expect to see them on a wiring diagram, just the connection to the speaker connector and nothing beyond that point. The speaker would basically be considered a black box with the capacitor mounted inside the box. The wiring diagram would normally just show the wiring up to the connector that mates with the black box and not what's inside it. I guess Audi or whoever generated their wiring diagrams just doesn't adhere to standard conventions in that regard. I dealt mostly with MIL Specs whereas commercial applications tend to do whatever they like and not do anything that is tied to a standardized format. Every so often we'd get a contract that stipulated best commercial practice, which basically meant we could do whatever the heck we wanted. Clearly that is what Audi did in this case.

    Looking at the drawing for the B&O system it looks like the door speakers and the tweeters in the sail panels have the capacitor in the tweeters (outputs 2 and 4), with the left, center, and right dash speakers connected to outputs 1, 3, and 5, respectively. The rear door woofer and tweeter and connected to outputs 6 and 10, the rear mids on 7 and 9, and the sub connected to output 8. It looks like they used the capacitors on all of the tweeters in the front sail panels and rear doors for the B&O system.

    The non-B&O system appears to use outputs 1 and 3 for the front door speakers and the outer dash tweeters with the capacitors. Output 2 feeds the center midrange speaker. Outputs 4 and 6 are for the rear door woofers and tweeters, again, using the capacitors. Output 5 is for the subwoofer.

    The takeaway from this is that any tweeter in either system uses a capacitor as a high pass filter for both the front and rear doors or outer dash speakers, as applicable. The non-B&O system has a single midrange channel so I assume it's a summed channel between the left and right, whereas the B&O system has five dedicated channels for the midrange outputs, with the front center channel being a summed channel similar to the non-B&O setup.

    FYI - In case I haven't already mentioned it, the two rear midrange speakers are the same as the outer front dash midrange speakers. I have already verified with one of my customers that the speakers used in the dash will also work in the rear deck.
    Last edited by captain_video; 10-26-2020 at 04:47 PM.

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Three Rings Bobby Kinstle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
    If you check the link in my first post you'll see that the two outer speakers in the dash for the B&O system have high pass filters staring at 250 Hz, which is why you're seeing that value.
    My outer dash speakers are disabled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Kinstle View Post
    My outer dash speakers are disabled.
    That's not what you said here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Kinstle View Post
    Regarding the frequency response of the center, I measured 250 to also around 12K, but that was for BOTH the tweeter and midrange on at the same time as it was more trouble than I was willing to put forth to isolate them from each other.
    All three dash speakers in the B&O system are midrange speakers, but they just cover different parts of the audio spectrum with a good bit of overlap.
    Last edited by captain_video; 10-26-2020 at 06:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
    That's not what you said here:



    All three dash speakers in the B&O system are midrange speakers, but they just cover different parts of the audio spectrum with a good bit of overlap.
    In my car the outer side dash mids are only used for the 3D effect, which I have disabled. The center dash speaker is a mid/tweeter combo and is what I was measuring. This speaker has no controls and can not be disabled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Kinstle View Post
    In my car the outer side dash mids are only used for the 3D effect, which I have disabled. The center dash speaker is a mid/tweeter combo and is what I was measuring. This speaker has no controls and can not be disabled.
    Gotcha. Are the mids in the rear deck also used for the 3D effect or are they mainly for rear fill to supplement the rear door speakers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
    Gotcha. Are the mids in the rear deck also used for the 3D effect or are they mainly for rear fill to supplement the rear door speakers?
    The rear deck speakers in my car are the same 4.5" midrange used in the doors and the center channel location. They are listed as "rear surround" and have their own volume control and are not part of the 3D effect system. Technically you can't turn them off but if you turn the volume all the way down they are effectively off. They do seem to add some echo effect trying to make the space sound bigger and setting them higher than barely audible reduces the clarity of the music for me. If you are watching a DVD movie, they become the rear surround sound channels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Kinstle View Post
    The rear deck speakers in my car are the same 4.5" midrange used in the doors and the center channel location. They are listed as "rear surround" and have their own volume control and are not part of the 3D effect system. Technically you can't turn them off but if you turn the volume all the way down they are effectively off. They do seem to add some echo effect trying to make the space sound bigger and setting them higher than barely audible reduces the clarity of the music for me. If you are watching a DVD movie, they become the rear surround sound channels.
    Which Audi model do you have? You say you have 4.5" mid-range speakers in the doors and the rear deck? The parts list shows them to be the same as the outer dash speakers in all of the B8 models, except the A4 Allroad, and are the only Audi series I am interested in. Also, there are no mid-range speakers mounted in the doors of any B8 model. They're all either in the front dash or the rear deck. The doors only contain mid-bass drivers and tweeters. None of the mid-range speakers are 4.5" drivers and the speakers in the rear deck are identical to the outer speakers in the dash. This has been confirmed by one of my customers as well as the parts lists for every B8 model. It sounds like we're talking about completely different models here.

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    I have a B9 S4 with B&O. My dash corner speakers are smaller, around 3" across like the B8 has

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Kinstle View Post
    I have a B9 S4 with B&O. My dash corner speakers are smaller, around 3" across like the B8 has
    OK, that would explain the difference in speaker sizes. The B8 models are much different. I just realized that I never specified that I was looking for the crossover frequencies for just the B8 models. That's my bad.

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    The wiring diagrams in the Audi also normally do not tell you which speakers have capacitors on them. You will have known that when two different speakers are connected together in parallel to a single output, there is bound to be some passive components involved.
    Those wiring diagrams are for a B8 car.

    The B9 B&O car's diagram is below. Notice there is no capacitors shown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
    OK, that would explain the difference in speaker sizes. The B8 models are much different. I just realized that I never specified that I was looking for the crossover frequencies for just the B8 models. That's my bad.
    Oh yes the B8 stereo was a totally different animal and frankly much better than the B9.

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