Issues after metal in oil after blowing turbos

[S6Man4.0tt]

So I bought an s6 and the turbos where blown at 91k miles. Metal was in the oil as commonly happens. Previous owner did do the correct procedure and did 3 back to back oil changes to get the metal out and he said they couldn't see any more metal coming out. It's been driven 4k miles seemingly ok since. I know tons of these turbos have shot and blown metal into the oil. How bad is it that this happened. Has anyone had engine failure or issues related to this happening? I do wonder how they hold up in the real world after all of that. One would think with all the blown turbos that they are holding up well because it doesn't seem like there are many blown motors.

[WhiteDiamond]

My S6 blew the turbos at 76K miles. I did not have obvious signs of metal in the oil on drain. I did not send the oil out for test, so not sure there wasn't microscopic amounts. Think I'll add back to back oil changes once I get it fired up with only minimal mileage in between.

[Audibellybutton]

I am curious about this as well. Bought one used with new turbos I’ll keep doing oil changes and send a sample out

[ItsLarryG]

I work for a large manufacturer dependent on ICB engines and saw a couple of these kits in the outgoing mail for analysis. Not advertising, but I'll be running these monthly once I go big turbo since our engines are so...predictable.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/?ses...bzynb%29%29%2F

[S6Man4.0tt]

How does the oil route from the turbos relate to when turbos blow? I know some pieces depending on the case can end up in various intake tracts and intercooler. I heard that the metal shavings should go straight to the oil filter and avoid the engine as well but not sure this is true.

[Madtech]

Well yay im in the same boat. Had my 13 s6 for 5 mnths. Thought great it’s got new turbos.... slapped a stage 1 in and after 2800km it sounded weird. did an oil change and found metallic oil in the filter housing 15k after turbo failure. Im not sure if i sell it before i keep modding it or pray but i ordered a oil test kit and im dropping the filter again after 1000km on the new oil. Have a bad feeling since obviously metal wont come out of a bearing. Engine build sooner then later 🤦*♂️

[Audibellybutton]

Well yay im in the same boat. Had my 13 s6 for 5 mnths. Thought great it’s got new turbos.... slapped a stage 1 in and after 2800km it sounded weird. did an oil change and found metallic oil in the filter housing 15k after turbo failure. Im not sure if i sell it before i keep modding it or pray but i ordered a oil test kit and im dropping the filter again after 1000km on the new oil. Have a bad feeling since obviously metal wont come out of a bearing. Engine build sooner then later 🤦*♂️

let me know how this goes for you, just got mine too havent noticed anything but im going to check the filter housing now

[blackout85]

Who created this "correct procedure" that 3 oil changes fixes he problem? That doesn't sound right to me... Although I can see the logical part of it. I believe once you have visible signs of metal in your oil, you are on borrowed Time with the motor, not sure oil changes would halt the inevitable. Maybe I'm wrong. But I would never buy one with the kinds of issues you guys are buying with. Plenty of examples that are clean out there so not sure the reason to. You might soon realize that you "pay to play". Although I very much hope I'm wrong for your guys' sake

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[S6Man4.0tt]

Who created this "correct procedure" that 3 oil changes fixes he problem? That doesn't sound right to me... Although I can see the logical part of it. I believe once you have visible signs of metal in your oil, you are on borrowed Time with the motor, not sure oil changes would halt the inevitable. Maybe I'm wrong. But I would never buy one with the kinds of issues you guys are buying with. Plenty of examples that are clean out there so not sure the reason to. You might soon realize that you "pay to play". Although I very much hope I'm wrong for your guys' sake

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Average people arn't aware of these issues when they are shopping for an Audi so they end up with a car that had a bad turbo rebuilder ect without knowing it or don't even expect major turbo issues. In my case I did find out about the turbo issue so I shopped for high mileage cars that had new turbos that's why I bought mine. But I was stupid and didn't realize there could be issues with metal but I did found out about it from the previous owner. At least I don't think Audi would design this car with turbos where its going to directly shoot worn bearing metal into the engine unless something just extreme happens. An Audi mechanic I know guessed it avoids the engine when they blow. So the metal should be in the pan/filter crankcase ect. I need to confirm this though. A TON of people have blown turbos catastrophically and motors are not blown left and right by how things look or I would be more concerned. Leaving a ton of metal in there without flushing out the oil is asking for it though and I know there are cases where people cheap out and a bad mechanic does not do the oil flush procedures leading to some blown motors or just changes the oil once. All good mechanics will always clean out your oil with repeated changes and inspecting the filter for metal ect. after turbos blow like this but it's also not gauranteed. If your mechanic or yourself doesn't do these procedures they don't know what they are doing. I know there are a number of cases where they did not even change the oil after turbo failure or only once. If you do flush the oil a bunch it's well known that it won't remove all the metal but it can remove alot of it and your engine may can make it but could also have issues at anytime if metal that isn't flushed out in there dislodges ect. depending on your luck in the future. Older turbo cars with older oil systems ect. depending on the case can be screwed as well I'm hoping with the fancy Audi overengineering the oil system will keep it safe.

[daytona rs7]

the multiple oil changes does sound like a correct procedure. I recall someone posting about their turbo replacement at the dealer and the invoice (covered by warranty) was some ridiculous qty of oil. it was like 5+ oil changes worth of oil.

the point is that you change the oil multiple times to get "all" the shavings out, and hope that it actually got them all. some reassurance would be lab analysis.

[duke70301]

Does the shavings get into oil only on catastrophic failures? My turbos failed with minimal play but failed on hot side sheered against manifold.


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[S6Man4.0tt]

the multiple oil changes does sound like a correct procedure. I recall someone posting about their turbo replacement at the dealer and the invoice (covered by warranty) was some ridiculous qty of oil. it was like 5+ oil changes worth of oil.

the point is that you change the oil multiple times to get "all" the shavings out, and hope that it actually got them all. some reassurance would be lab analysis.

It will never get them all but hopefully the filter will keep it at bay over the long run is the idea I'm getting. You can have metal in the pan and it still has to get through your filters and other routs ect. and it wont blow your engine if it doesn't make it to the engine. Having a ton of metal in there without flushing most of it out is a bad idea though asking too much of the filter system.

"Does the shavings get into oil only on catastrophic failures? My turbos failed with minimal play but failed on hot side sheered against manifold."

If your bearings don't sheer off and stuff doesn't break off then yea. It seems in most if not all cases they do on these cars. Some cases are high speed blow ups with extra horsepower ect. and metal gets pushed alot farther into the intakes ect. freak stuff can happen

[duke70301]

Do you know of the correct procedure to flush the motor. Do you do a complete oil and filter change 3 times? Do run it between changes? Do you use cheap oil between the 2 then final put good oil?


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[S6Man4.0tt]

Do you know of the correct procedure to flush the motor. Do you do a complete oil and filter change 3 times? Do run it between changes? Do you use cheap oil between the 2 then final put good oil?


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You can do up to 5 changes its sorta variable depending on how it goes related to how much metal and how the metal is coming out from what I take. You change it to start with once and then run it with new oil very briefly the first time carefully for a few miles only then change it again. If it's looking not bad you then do a couple more changes over the next 500 miles driving it carefully. I believe the oil system can go into various bypass modes depending on the system (concerns me about how the procedure is done) when you accelerate hard maybe (not sure about this) ect. so its one of those things to be careful about. There are actual methods of pump flushing the engine as well that are probably better but it seems most people skip this. It is impossible to get it 100 percent free of metal but it is possible if your lucky to where it won't be an issue in some cases. Personally I would be changing the filters every time but yea you do use cheaper oil there is no point in expensive oil.

[duke70301]

Thanks for the input I’m in process of changing turbos and fuel upgrade but never dropped oil yet. I didn’t think much of it because of turbos were no sheered only on back side. I don’t think mine was from strainer either just turbo fatigue.


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[Madtech]

If your turbo has sheered off you will have a seized shaft and there for damage going into the oil turbo drains that drop on top of the crank and rods. It must be flushed and not driven so there is no load on the motor while flushing it. I was an audi tech for over ten years and i never once thought of a blown turbo being an issue until i realized the turbo drains were above the rotating assembly. With that being said i am going to drop my oil filter shortly and inspect since the car is running quietly and i have done 1000km of shit kickings so i will know shortly if the dealer Just didn’t flush it well enough. In my opinion once it goes over a bearing its going to get stuck in the bearing due to how soft it is. With that said once i check the filter and its clean i will do my usual 10k oil change and send the oil for analysis to find out how long it has. I would never choose a rs7 over an s6 regardless of how strong the tranny is or how it has better turbos. I am more then happy with rebuilding my motor and slapping a upgraded dsg clutch in and sending it to rs7 owners who think they are fast. 🤣

[blackout85]

Lol be careful what you wish for madtech. But fair enough... You possess the skills most don't in being able to rebuild. I sure as hell don't! So I would never share that view.

I'd rather KNOW I'm fast than have to try hard and cross my fingers something don't go boom boom in the process. Cuz I ain't smart enough to fix it!



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[S6Man4.0tt]

If your turbo has sheered off you will have a seized shaft and there for damage going into the oil turbo drains that drop on top of the crank and rods. It must be flushed and not driven so there is no load on the motor while flushing it. I was an audi tech for over ten years and i never once thought of a blown turbo being an issue until i realized the turbo drains were above the rotating assembly. With that being said i am going to drop my oil filter shortly and inspect since the car is running quietly and i have done 1000km of shit kickings so i will know shortly if the dealer Just didn’t flush it well enough. In my opinion once it goes over a bearing its going to get stuck in the bearing due to how soft it is. With that said once i check the filter and its clean i will do my usual 10k oil change and send the oil for analysis to find out how long it has. I would never choose a rs7 over an s6 regardless of how strong the tranny is or how it has better turbos. I am more then happy with rebuilding my motor and slapping a upgraded dsg clutch in and sending it to rs7 owners who think they are fast. 🤣

How the hell can they design turbos that always wear out and break before a motor to dump metal into the motor. That just makes no sense to me. So literally the metal goes to the engine first?

[JRYtheS4]

Planned obsolescence? Germany probably expects you to catch the issue early because you follow the maintenance plan to a T and always check everything and NEVER EVER tune your car /s. Pretty silly to dump oil into the top end though. Might have just been a packaging issue, or they wanted that line as short as possible to prevent issues with clogging.

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[WhiteDiamond]

I'm of the belief this may be a smaller issue than the thread makes it sound. I have one shaft that is seized and the other shaft has fore/aft play. I had no visible metal flake or shimmer in the oil on drain. Not saying there is not metallic particles that made it into the system, but the filter and change is going to remove basically all of it. May be more important to change the filter several times during the first round of oil after re-birth than to completely flush it. Either way, I have had much worse failures with other projects and no failure related to metal in the oil on rebuild. I'm sure some have.

[S6Man4.0tt]

I'm of the belief this may be a smaller issue than the thread makes it sound. I have one shaft that is seized and the other shaft has fore/aft play. I had no visible metal flake or shimmer in the oil on drain. Not saying there is not metallic particles that made it into the system, but the filter and change is going to remove basically all of it. May be more important to change the filter several times during the first round of oil after re-birth than to completely flush it. Either way, I have had much worse failures with other projects and no failure related to metal in the oil on rebuild. I'm sure some have.

There’s at least a few motors that seem to have gone related to shavings so it can happen but at least it’s not in mass. I do know there are a lot of cases where a significant amount of metal makes it to the oil. I’d be careful when buying, but yea it seems most motors are making it and people do usually flush the oil if they know what they are doing


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[gk1]

Question: Does it also depend on the material in question?
"Soft" material like bearing metals or aluminum vs. steel shards? Understandably any metal would be bad, but are there varying degrees of bad?
Lead/Tin (1.5) vs. Bronze, Brass, Copper, Aluminum (3) vs. Steel or Iron (4) vs. hardened steel (7)

I'm thinking like if a main bearing goes and the hardened steel crank journal wears away those steel fragments in the oil would be highly detrimental to aluminum in both the block and pistons and even perhaps the piston rings. However if say a small bronze turbo bearing gets ground up into the oil would it be less detrimental since it is roughly the same hardness as aluminum?

Just curious if anyone actually knows more than any real contribution on my part.

[WhiteDiamond]

Question: Does it also depend on the material in question?
"Soft" material like bearing metals or aluminum vs. steel shards? Understandably any metal would be bad, but are there varying degrees of bad?
Lead/Tin (1.5) vs. Bronze, Brass, Copper, Aluminum (3) vs. Steel or Iron (4) vs. hardened steel (7)

I'm thinking like if a main bearing goes and the hardened steel crank journal wears away those steel fragments in the oil would be highly detrimental to aluminum in both the block and pistons and even perhaps the piston rings. However if say a small bronze turbo bearing gets ground up into the oil would it be less detrimental since it is roughly the same hardness as aluminum?

Just curious if anyone actually knows more than any real contribution on my part.

I can say I wish I had sampled a portion of my oil when I drained it. I have used Blackstone in the past and this would have been good info. Just didn't think it through.

[S6Man4.0tt]

So I had my first oil change on my new used S6 and asked the old filter to be inspected and kept and found metal in the filter. This is 4k miles since the turbopacalypse the previous owner had and still is metal after the 3 engine flush oil changes. I was worried so I had the compression tested and cylinders scoped. Came out real good no scoring on the cylinder walls and compression almost exactly 146 on all 8 cylinders (97,000 miles).

[Audibellybutton]

Oh yeah I realized I forgot to update too. I did an oil change. It’s maybe 4k miles after turbo failure (previous owner) Blackstone says everything looks good. It was really reassuring now I’m excited to continue modding and enjoying the car (just hit 70k miles)

[FastS6]

My turbos blew at 60000. Opted to go up to rs7 turbos/stage 3. Oil was flushed through several times. Yes there was metal at the 4th oil change, nothing since. I drive this car hard and take it up to 120-150 weekly, depending on traffic. I also take this car to The drag strip a few times per year. Typically I change oil before and after each trip. Otherwise at 3000. I have been sending oil for analysis and is now showing 45parts per million(ppm) lead in the oil. Lab says 1ppm is normal and suspects my bearings are going. I need to find the the critical point, ppm lead, then I guess Ill do the bearings.
2013 S6 now has 70000

[Audibellybutton]

My turbos blew at 60000. Opted to go up to rs7 turbos/stage 3. Oil was flushed through several times. Yes there was metal at the 4th oil change, nothing since. I drive this car hard and take it up to 120-150 weekly, depending on traffic. I also take this car to The drag strip a few times per year. Typically I change oil before and after each trip. Otherwise at 3000. I have been sending oil for analysis and is now showing 45parts per million(ppm) lead in the oil. Lab says 1ppm is normal and suspects my bearings are going. I need to find the the critical point, ppm lead, then I guess Ill do the bearings.
2013 S6 now has 70000

Sorry to hear that. I’ll keep sending samples out. Your car is around the same mileage as mine and though I just got the car I do drive it like you do

[gk1]

My turbos blew at 60000. Opted to go up to rs7 turbos/stage 3. Oil was flushed through several times. Yes there was metal at the 4th oil change, nothing since. I drive this car hard and take it up to 120-150 weekly, depending on traffic. I also take this car to The drag strip a few times per year. Typically I change oil before and after each trip. Otherwise at 3000. I have been sending oil for analysis and is now showing 45parts per million(ppm) lead in the oil. Lab says 1ppm is normal and suspects my bearings are going. I need to find the the critical point, ppm lead, then I guess Ill do the bearings.
2013 S6 now has 70000

Usually I would say lead is the main or rod bearings too, but AFAIK the 4.0T uses lead-free bearings...
"The main bearings are a lead-free, three-material composite design....The lower connecting rod bearing shell, like the main bearing, is a lead-free, three-material composite bearing. A lead-free, two-material composite bearing is used for the upper connecting rod bearing shell" and I believe the turbo bearing would be simple bronze. So where is lead coming from?
Only thing I could find is "Sintered lead steel exhaust valve guides" so perhaps your exhaust valve guides are going.. not that that particular job is any better than replacing bearings. Sorry.