maestro 7 problems with tuning

[jerm0331]

Hey everyone, I really need your guys help with some problems I've run into in regards to the Eurodyne tuning suite. I have a fully built engine with all the supporting hardware. The problem I am having is after re-flashing my car with the correct custom maestro tune for my hardware- I look in my data logs and it is pulling timing all over the place, even at idle (its pulling -6 mostly but during WOT it goes up to -8.75 at times. The car seems to be running ok but it definitely does not have a smooth power delivery in WOT. Also my IAT sensor will not read correctly I've tried replacing it but it still reads at about -45 to about -36 degrees. Lastly, I also have a reoccuring fault for the cam position senor and secondary O2 sensor, I'm really stumped and don't want to jack up my new engine, any help will be much appreciated. Thanks in advance
- Jeremy

[EuroxS4]

It may be pulling timing if it senses knock or if you have a engine thats slightly out of time that may be your issue and explain the cam fault.Not a big fan of maestro. Ignitron is the way to go!!!

[jerm0331]

True but its even pulling timing at idle with no engine load. I also had the suspicion the maybe it's the cams I have that are causing this, they are cat cams and they are more aggressive I'm wondering if the knock sensors are picking this up or something. I just dont really understand why its pulling timing, my afr are good, it has 8.5:1 pistons and im running meth

[EuroxS4]

With aggressive cams you normally want to retard the timing by 2 degrees with adjustable cam gear.

[jerm0331]

Got an ideas on why my IAT sensor is reading at -45 degrees? I've tried replacing it with no help. I'm pretty sure that for the o2 sensor fault I just need to tune the ecu to ignore that because I'm not even running a secondary o2 sensor which is obviously why its throwing that code

[Gin+]

Sounds like you have aftermarket pistons. I've heard that forged pistons etc can cause issues with false knock. I'd compare timing maps with the stock map just for due diligence and try to get that IAT thing sorted as that does have some effect on timing but I can't imagine it would have the effect that you're seeing.

[jerm0331]

Is there a way in the meastro settings to make the knock detection not so sensitive? I know there are people out there with a similar setups to mine that have there cars dailed in with maestro

[EuroxS4]

IAT -45 sounds like its pinned at the max reading range. if the sensor was changed you would be looking at wiring issue in my opinion. As far as knock goes take a look a mvb 20,22,23 and 28 and log those mvb. It should tell you how much knock the engine is seeing. If the engine detects 4.5 degrees of knock it will wait a set period of time until no more knock is detected. Once this set time has elapsed the ECU will gradually decrease knock retard in .75 deg increments until 0 is reached.

AS far as decreasing sensitivity you would need to adjust the knock maps in the ecu. However even with aggressive cams you should not be seeing knock unless you have a internal engine issue or an issues with hardware or fuel being used. Also I dont think its a good idea to reduce sensitivy on any knock map untill everything else is dialed in. Making the knock map less sensitive can grenade you engine when you get real knock. I would be looking else where to determine the cause of why your getting knock.

[jerm0331]

I'm a still getting familiar with the software right now, what is mvb? Is that in the data log? Or is that looking at the measuring blocks?

[EuroxS4]

MVB= measured value block. I havent used maestro in a while,but there should be a log feature built into it to log certain condiutions and mvb's.

[jerm0331]

thank you for helping me out EurosS4 ill see what i can do in the morning

[Seerlah]

If this is a fresh tune (flash), you need to let the ECU learn the car. This can take a while, and your car will run like poop till it does. First start the car and let it idle till the car gets up to full operating temps and let it sit maybe 5 minutes longer (for good measure). Mind you, it will run like poop till the ECU adapts. Once things settle down after the aforementioned, now you need to go for a drive and let the ECU learn your driving habits with the engine in each gear (or engine load). So do like 15-30 more minutes mixed driving after the idle engine warm up and the ECU should be settled.

Try this out and post if it corrects your issue.

[jerm0331]

Well I ended up finding a rather large vacuum/boost leak on the intake manifold. There is a vacuum port on the underside of the of the manifold that I did not see. I plugged the vacuum leak and now the car runs like absolute crap, I have to try to start it for about 15 mins until it will actually run but when it does it runs extremely lean and the idle is all over the place. I tried re-flashing the car with a fresh tune and it did not help. I removed the plug I put on that port and now the car runs pretty good actually lol I have no idea what is going on. I assume there is no idle control valve because the throttle is drive by wire and the throttle should be able to control idle. I'm really stumped but the car will only run if that vacuum port is unplugged and is sucking air straight from the atmosphere.

[Seerlah]

Plug that hole up, reflash, and follow instructions I posted back. I run Maestro with a Comp Turbo CT2 5152 Triplex and it happened to me too (I did not have to log it; it was running like straight poop). Called my tuner, he gave the same instructions (with reasoning) I am giving you, and car has been on the road for a few years now with this setup.

And if that does not work, then diagnose further.

[jerm0331]

I tried plugging the port and re-flashing earlier today and it did not idle smoothly at all and it took almost 15 mins to start up finally. I let it run for about 5 mins before turning it off because it was running super lean and I was worried it may damage something if I let it run like that for much longer. Ill try plugging it and re-flashing again tomorrow hopefully ill have better luck. One thing to note: I was looking at my log after I plugged the port and re-flashed, the ecu was not correcting the fuel mixture at all, in the o2 correction block it remained at zero the whole time but after unplugging the port, the ecu started making o2 corrections again...

[Seerlah]

Did you tune the ECU yourself? And if you did, are you confident the tune is solid?

I am no tuner by a longshot, but understand the basics. My tuner is an Audizine forum member that used to be the in-house tuner for RAI Motorsports. So the information I am giving you, is the same information he gave me. If you want me to to call him and ask him to chime in (on this thread), I can do that too. If the tune is solid, you need to follow the instructions posted above.

I built my engine myself, but don't know how to tune. So I take advice from people who know what they are doing (one hand washes the other). And I am relaying that same information to you. Because...it worked (as long as the tune is solid).

[jerm0331]

All I did was set my injector injector constant with the injector wizard then chose my maf size then loaded that tune. It ran ok before I even knew about the vacuum leak lol which is funny because it actually idled perfectly by ear anyway... except for the constant knock I was getting at idle in my data logs lol. My engine was built by Arnold from pagparts so I'm pretty confident that its not any internal engine problems. I haven't done any tuning at all I'm still just trying to get it running without any knock then I found this vacuum leak so I figure this might be the issue but now I cant even start my car pretty much and when it does it runs absolutely terrible, I mean I'm scared to even drive it like that. I think contacting him would be pretty sweet I definitely need his help I think .

[jerm0331]

Thank you for chiming in Seerlah I need all the help I can get.

[Seerlah]

Arnold is a personal friend of mine and is pretty good at what he does. Did you also buy the Eurodyne Suite from him? If so, you should have asked him how to go about it.

What are your engine, turbo, and fueling specs? And with the new information you gave, I assume you are just trying to get a base file on your car running and go from there (this is also a real question)?

I have been out the loop for a while, but the base files "back in the days" were basically OTS (off the shelf) tunes that CTapp used to offer for bigger turbo applications. Not sure if the Eurodyne program is the same today (I have Eurodyne and got remote tuned) as it was before, but the Suite basically allowed you to fine tune from that base file (that was essentially an OTS tune). When I had my car tuned, my tuner had already tuned a bunch of cars and had a library of files (this was his job at the time). I gave him the specs of my setup, he said he had a file that was similar to that setup and that was the base tune we used for my vehicle. From that base tune catered for another vehicle he refined it through 5 (or 6) revisions total, increasing boost on each revision. During this time my crank gear was not dowel pinned and I felt the engine was unsafe to chase more power, so we stopped at 25psi on 93 octane (350whp butt dyno). Been running like that for a few years now, and next goal is 400whp on e85 (current slow project).

Point is that is how I went about getting my car dialed in, so you know at least one avenue to take if things don't work out too well. And I say this because even though I know the basics of tuning (don't confuse knowing the basics with actually putting parameters in a program), I also know how easy it is to blow up your engine if you do things improperly. So, I leave that to the professionals.

[BecksA3]

Thank you for chiming in Seerlah I need all the help I can get.

What are you running for fuel?


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[EuroxS4]

At this point I think a build sheet of the engine would help so we can all understand what kind of work was done to the internals and so on. Was everything measured and put together correctly and so on. Is the oil pressure good?? Just checking the basics first. also pictures of vacuum leak would help and any modification or simplification to the pcv system should also be mentioned.


However given the fact that you are seeing -45 IAT could also be a factor. Basically you need to stage 0 the car. Resolve any issues you may have as far as faults go and start there. I know it sounds silly but in order to be certain we need to figure out why IAT is pinned at -45 IAT and the cam fault as both can and will affect engine performance and how it adjusts for timing and fueling and ignition.

[Seerlah]

^Totally agree. Words from forum member (happy2B5/Jeff) I follow till this day after a more entailed personal conversation between him and me. Sometimes you need to take two steps back, to make one step forward. Very true words that apply to many things in life (I applied this to my personal life, and the end result is that which it is)...including getting your vehicle running properly before you damage a Pag Parts engine.

[jerm0331]

I don't remember who I bought the software from but I don't believe it was from Arnold. I have been slowly piecing this car together over the last 4 years after I put a rod through the block on my first build lol. I'm in the military and this project car is in my grandpas garage back home so I only get about a 3 week window every 6 months to work on it. Anyway the amount of stuff done is long so I will try to remember everything. Its bored and stroked to a 2.1l with an aeb head and cat cams with supertech stainless steel intake and exhuast valves with catcam gold valve springs, running 750cc injectors and a 4 bar fuel pressure regulator with 93 octane and and inline walbro 255 fuel pump and a gt3071 turbo with Arnolds billet compressor wheel. Its been converted to a return style fuel system. I've ripped all of the SAI out I also am running a mishimoto catch can at the moment. Oil pressure is good it hovers at about 17-19 psi after the engine is warmed up. So you can see going back to stage 0 will be difficult, I think I need to have someone remote tune my car after I debug the stuff that's going on right now I would feel a lot better knowing I have a good tune for my setup.

[jerm0331]

These are the codes that keep coming back: P0036, P0342 and P0113 hope this info may help as well

[EuroxS4]

P0036 I wouldn't worry about as that's the rear o2 fault it does not have any affect on fuel trims simply there just to monitor catalyst. P0113 is related to IAT I would check the sensor ,wiring and fuse for the sensor. This fault is normally set if the ecus sees a voltage of 4.91v for more than half a second. I would check make sure wiring is good as well as sensor. Perhaps take a resistance reading on the sensor, and lasts check or replace the fuse just in case.

I have seen high lift cams eat valve guides on these engines,not saying this is your issue but its something ive seen only with high lift cams and heavy duty valve springs and ferrea or supertech valves and valve seats.

I think checking or rechecking the timing is also a good idea for the cam sensor fault. If its off a tooth you will have that fault stored. Will also give you a hard start condition and possibly lean condition.

[jerm0331]

Ok I'm going over tomorrow in the morning to try and workout some of these issues. I'll report back with how it goes, I think I may have the connector for the IAT sensor switch with another connector that looks similar. I have a diagram of the wiring harness by connector and wire color so I'm going to double check all the connector are in the right place and verify the timing as well.

[EuroxS4]

Sounds good! I think N249 has the same style connector as does the solenoid for the SAI kombi valve. IIRC correctly both those solenoid have colored connector. One is brown and other is green iirc. IAT should be a black connector.

[jerm0331]

Ok thanks for the tip I'll check it out and see, I really hope that it's something simple like that lol.

[Gin+]

I wonder if the P0342 code is popping due to the AEB head not having variable CCT and it hasn't been coded out.

[Seerlah]

Iirc, the Maestro Tuning Suite is pretty user friendly when it comes to coding out sensors. It is a simple on/off option or something in that vicinity. Once again I am no tuner, but opened up the program out of curiosity.

[jerm0331]

Well I found the problem for the cam sensor fault... I failed to install and cam trigger wheel when I put the engine together lol I guess that's what happens when you walk away from a project for 6 months. So now that is fixed the engine starts up on the first turn of the key now which is good, however as far as the IAT sensor it definitely has the right connector going to it, I verified. While looking at the value block for the IAT sensor I disconnect the connecter and the value will change from -48 tom-42 so I'm thinking perhaps I just got a faulty sensor from the auto parts store so I'm going to swap that out one more time to see if it fixes it. The bad news is that I plugged up that vacuum leak and re-flashed and it still wont run right unless that port is unplugged. I got it to run for a bit but it was at 10.5:1 afr the whole time, if I unplug it it adjusts to a perfect 14.5 afr.....

[EuroxS4]

Glad you got the cam sensor issue sorted. In regard to the line or port you plugged a picture is worth a thousand words. Please post a picture if possible so I cant take a look at what we are looking at to have a better understanding what is plugged/blocked. 10.5 is lean for AFR the lowest you want to go is about 11.4 no lower than that.

Also note for big turbo setups its beneficial to swap over the amb head cams,trigger wheel and cct.

[jerm0331]

Ok I'll try to take a pic either tomorrow or the next day when I'm out there again, I swapped over the trigger wheel today and I've already got the cct installed so I'm good there. Is 10.5 rich or lean? I was under the impression it was a rich condition.

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[EuroxS4]

10.5 is rich typo on my part. Sorry anything above 14.7 is considered lean anything below is rich. Either way you want 11.4-11.7 afr anything lower is super rich. Looks like you can pull some fuel out and adjust.

[jerm0331]

So I found the problem with the rich condition at idle. I was running a blowoff valve and noticed that at idle it was spewing out air. I swapped that out for a diverter valve routed to the TIP and boom problem fixed. Idles perfectly now with the vacuum port plugged. So two of the main 4 problems are fixed. Can anyone chime in on how to delete the rear o2 with maestro? I open up the rear o2 settings and select every thing to off to the off position, save it then load that new file to the ecu but it still throws the code for rear o2 sensor? How do you turn off the rear o2 completely? Does it still need to be plugged in to turn it off?

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[EuroxS4]

I think best approach is to leave it in but turn rear o2 diagnosis off. Should be good after that. Yes motronic system do not like BOV as they calculate air going into engine. This system basically care about nothing except filling cylinder with air. That's the core of the system pretty complicated yet simple at the same time.

[jerm0331]

Ok I'll try that tomorrow and see what happens, I havn't tried turning it off while the o2 sensor is actually plugged in yet. There is no bung on the exhaust for it right now so I guess I'll just have to find a spot to zip tie the sensor to.

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[EuroxS4]

Ok I'll try that tomorrow and see what happens, I havn't tried turning it off while the o2 sensor is actually plugged in yet. There is no bung on the exhaust for it right now so I guess I'll just have to find a spot to zip tie the sensor to.

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Worth a shot but also before you do that I would change the coding of the ecm irc you can code the rear o2 out via coding not 100% on this but I could of sworn this was possible. I will take a look tonight when I get home to check on my b6.

[old guy]

Ok I'll try that tomorrow and see what happens, I havn't tried turning it off while the o2 sensor is actually plugged in yet. There is no bung on the exhaust for it right now so I guess I'll just have to find a spot to zip tie the sensor to.

Be mindful of the O2 sensor heater when you zip tie it. The heater gets very hot.

[jerm0331]

Just an update because I want to thank everyone that has posted on my post. You all were a very big help because of what you guys posted. I ended up finding the most of the big issues with my setup with some diagnosis on my own part, but it was you guys that put me on the right path so thank you (EuroxS4, Seerlah, Gin +, and old guy). Unfortunately I am again walking away until this summer were I can work on my car again :(. I wasn't able to check out the o2 problem today because I was family. Hopefully I can figure out the IAT problem.... that's the next big concern I have. I never got the chance to swap it out because the auto parts store kept pulling a part that wasn't right for my car (the connector was square in all dimensions, instead of a square with a half moon shape on the opposite side like my connector is on the wiring harness) so I will have to go to the dealership I think for the IAT sensor. I hope you guys can help me when I come home again. Thank you all again for the help.
- Jeremy

FYI if anyone cares and reads this, I a have a b5 s4 that I daily drive in Florida were I'm stationed and where I'm going back to on Saturday. I may need your guys help eventually on that as well lol but hopefully not yet because its what I have right now to go to work and back with. Eventually I plan on building its engine as well....