Turbo Upgrades - B9 RS5

[PI5]

Hi everyone. I'm exploring the turbo upgrade route and have really only come across the thread on the Hybrid turbos with only limited information out on the performance outcome.
Are there any other kits out there, or has anyone gone on and built a custom/ full frame set up? If so, what sort of numbers are you seeing?
Current mods - AWE exhaust with high flowed cats, awe intake, JB4.

[KUbeastmode]

It sounds like bigger turbos can't do much for our cars until the cooling limitations have been better/further addressed.

[PI5]

I was looking at the MercRacing complete cooling system upgrade, though other than Technika's car, there doesnt seem to be any others with experience on this kit - that have posted here anyway.

[Seatbelt]

I was looking at the MercRacing complete cooling system upgrade, though other than Technika's car, there doesnt seem to be any others with experience on this kit - that have posted here anyway.

I'm running the Mercracing FMHX. Did some pulls last week in ambient temps ~90-92F degrees, JB4 on Map 5 (full tank with 5 gal e85, the rest 93 oct pump), made 25psi without issue (current boost safety limit set), no significant timing pulled and IATs ranged from 100-107F degrees. Also did two 4.5 hour rides, to and from beach this weekend, and highest temp I observed was ~118-120F when stopped at a light (made trips on Map 3). Solid improvement over stock and happy with the results but am still planning on adding the pierburg CWA-100-3 pump (I believe our cars have the CWA-50 equivalent) to make the system more efficient - will also consider the mercracing or wagner tuning intercoolers if/when necessary.

[penguiNET]

I'm running the Mercracing FMHX. Did some pulls last week in ambient temps ~90-92F degrees, JB4 on Map 5 (full tank with 5 gal e85, the rest 93 oct pump), made 25psi without issue (current boost safety limit set), no significant timing pulled and IATs ranged from 100-107F degrees. Also did two 4.5 hour rides, to and from beach this weekend, and highest temp I observed was ~118-120F when stopped at a light (made trips on Map 3). Solid improvement over stock and happy with the results but am still planning on adding the pierburg CWA-100-3 pump (I believe our cars have the CWA-50 equivalent) to make the system more efficient - will also consider the mercracing or wagner tuning intercoolers if/when necessary.

whoa, temp on dash was 118-120F max? Usually mine is around 200-220 on normal commute. FMHX makes that huge of a difference? Wow

[TEKNIKA]

whoa, temp on dash was 118-120F max? Usually mine is around 200-220 on normal commute. FMHX makes that huge of a difference? Wow

I think he means the IATs are 118-120 max. The temperature on the dash is the engine temperature. Your 200-220 is normal engine temperature.

[penguiNET]

I think he means the IATs are 118-120 max. The temperature on the dash is the engine temperature. Your 200-220 is normal engine temperature.

thanks for clarifying!

[Seatbelt]

I think he means the IATs are 118-120 max. The temperature on the dash is the engine temperature. Your 200-220 is normal engine temperature.

Correct, meant IATs. Engine temps on dash were certainly over 200.

[joeyoro]

Hi everyone. I'm exploring the turbo upgrade route and have really only come across the thread on the Hybrid turbos with only limited information out on the performance outcome.
Are there any other kits out there, or has anyone gone on and built a custom/ full frame set up? If so, what sort of numbers are you seeing?
Current mods - AWE exhaust with high flowed cats, awe intake, JB4.

I went with the TTE7XX turbos and coupled it with the ABT additional intercooler and water pump, bashed out hi-flow cats and exhaust all tuned up. There was a noticeable turbo spool noise even routing it through the stock intake that was inaudible before, I opened it up with an intake and the spool sound was worth the swap for me. I come from a long history of rice so, I like that stuff. Power wise I was dyno'd on a Dyno Dynamics stock 362 HP/427 Lb/Ft to the tuned up 490HP/519 Lb/Ft on a 95 Octane Tune. Unless you are trying to tangle with exotics or just want really big power a hybrid turbo setup is probably all you will need, you will retain factory-like throttle response just with a lot more punch. Because they are generally the same turbos you can also install them and drive them without tuning if you were still waiting to complete your build before tuning with no ill effects. That being said at this point the cars are more cooling and octane limited than turbo limited. I know Teknika is running a 800 hybrid turbo setup and he hasn't even hit that ceiling yet and that thing is blazing fast.

https://youtu.be/IR5u-HN2dZo

[PI5]

Thanks for the info joeyoro. Have you timed any runs with your setup? 0-60, 1/4mi etc? I like that induction noise. I used to own 300zx's so was always keen on that turbo spool noise.

Looking at the Pure Turbos website, I can see 700 series, but not 800 series.

So how are your temps with the additional intercooler and water pump?

[joeyoro]

Well Teknika is special I think he is testing their 800 blend there before it hits the market lol. I haven't gotten anything official as of yet for times, just a draggy run, but for some reason my gps signal isn't great so I lose it often. I did a 170+ run and it was showing me in the quarter at 124ish which is higher than I should be for my power level in the current Arizona temps. So until the tracks open here in September I won't have much solid info. Per Draggy the 0-60 is around 3.2, unfortunately I had to launch on gravel there so it's definitely not a clean launch. As for temps with the ABT intercooler and pump I posted some here a while ago in the radiator thread. They definitely aren't ideal as of right now AZ has not seen a day under 110 and 114-117 has been the solid temps during the day with high 90's low 100's at night. Ultimately cooling wise how far you take it is going to depend on what your use is. Teknika definitely tracks his ride, in that case I would go with the biggest heat exchangers and as much extra fluid in the system I could muster since you only hit high speeds to cool things down quickly in straight and long sweepers. In temperatures like Arizona that we have been experiencing, I will probably opt to get into the Merc Racing stock intercooler replacement unit as well. But if you aren't going to a track and are just daily driving and drag racing once in a while the ABT system would also be acceptable. But again, I don't think you will lose with any of the options. The stock system is just barely up to the task, if you are looking at going further you will need to address that first. Then octane to pump up the boost regardless if you are going replacement turbos or not. The engine is stout but it needs good fuel and good cooling to shine.

Here is the pull with the gravel launch and dragy talking to me.

https://youtu.be/zHuX4HnD5pE

This information was from back in May during the day when it was still below 110..smh.

Ambient Air Temp Reading from Google - 109 F
Vehicle Dash Temp - 112 F
OBDEleven Vehicle Monitored Ambient Air Temp - 48 C (118.4 F)

I drove the car till warm, very easy in AZ. I then conducted 10 pulls 60MPH-120MPH

All of the pulls were roughly the same

65-70 MPH - 61-63 C (145.4F)
85-90 MPH - 57-59 C (136.4F)
70-125 - 70-75 C (167F)
Idle in traffic temps - 68-69 C (154.4) *Expected due to no air flow running through the heat exchangers*

This is obviously not the most scientific observation as I have to go by live monitoring on the OBDEleven but it gives you a general idea of where you would be at if you were running in my god awful conditions. I won't be pushing it again in the same temps as this was a semi-torture test and it's only going to get hotter as we are expected a nice 117 day coming up on the weekend and I don't want to test the limits of heat and my octane limits.
With that said, this is where I go to the seat of the pants gauge and go by opinion. Stock on a hot day like this I could feel the car struggle, this is also due to Arizona only having 91 at the pump so it is two fold, but when temps get high here power sharply decreases on every vehicle I have ever owned. With the current tune it is solid also because I am running 100 Octane blended with 91 to even out at 95, but the power does not seem affected at all by the heat. After the runs coolant temps were stable at 224 F at 65MPH and IAT's quickly returned to the 61-63C range. I also don't have meth injection, so for those of you thinking of using meth this would further bring temps down.

Ultimately, I think this falls under the category of choose which system you want, as long as they are inline and increasing the stock system capacity you will have positive results. Honestly for the temps that we have out here in AZ, I think any of the upgrades are pretty mandatory for this car in hot dry climate.

Thanks for the info joeyoro. Have you timed any runs with your setup? 0-60, 1/4mi etc? I like that induction noise. I used to own 300zx's so was always keen on that turbo spool noise.

Looking at the Pure Turbos website, I can see 700 series, but not 800 series.

So how are your temps with the additional intercooler and water pump?

[wwhan]

At low speeds, additional fan cooling may help like SRM did with the 4.0T: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post13782789

[PI5]

Great info, thanks so much for sharing this joeyoro

[PI5]

Does anyone have experience with these Hybrids?

https://www.emdauto.com/products/tur...32716816318552

[penguiNET]

I went with the TTE7XX turbos and coupled it with the ABT additional intercooler and water pump, bashed out hi-flow cats and exhaust all tuned up. There was a noticeable turbo spool noise even routing it through the stock intake that was inaudible before, I opened it up with an intake and the spool sound was worth the swap for me. I come from a long history of rice so, I like that stuff. Power wise I was dyno'd on a Dyno Dynamics stock 362 HP/427 Lb/Ft to the tuned up 490HP/519 Lb/Ft on a 95 Octane Tune. Unless you are trying to tangle with exotics or just want really big power a hybrid turbo setup is probably all you will need, you will retain factory-like throttle response just with a lot more punch. Because they are generally the same turbos you can also install them and drive them without tuning if you were still waiting to complete your build before tuning with no ill effects. That being said at this point the cars are more cooling and octane limited than turbo limited. I know Teknika is running a 800 hybrid turbo setup and he hasn't even hit that ceiling yet and that thing is blazing fast.

https://youtu.be/IR5u-HN2dZo

Love the sound...your HUD seems to have more stuff on it than I'm used to seeing on mine...what is that stuff?

[PI5]

Looks like the lap time display. You can select this via the additional displays menu.

[joeyoro]

Looks like the lap time display. You can select this via the additional displays menu.

Yeah I have it up when using the paddles since it shows your rpm indicator in manual mode.

[idrinkv8]

I'm running the Mercracing FMHX. Did some pulls last week in ambient temps ~90-92F degrees, JB4 on Map 5 (full tank with 5 gal e85, the rest 93 oct pump), made 25psi without issue (current boost safety limit set), no significant timing pulled and IATs ranged from 100-107F degrees. Also did two 4.5 hour rides, to and from beach this weekend, and highest temp I observed was ~118-120F when stopped at a light (made trips on Map 3). Solid improvement over stock and happy with the results but am still planning on adding the pierburg CWA-100-3 pump (I believe our cars have the CWA-50 equivalent) to make the system more efficient - will also consider the mercracing or wagner tuning intercoolers if/when necessary.

Did you bypass the oem HX or just add it in line with the Merc?

[Seatbelt]

Did you bypass the oem HX or just add it in line with the Merc?

Installed inline with the Merc.

[wwhan]

Pure Turbos PURE700 Upgrade turbos Audi RS4/RS5: https://www.vividracing.com/pure-tur...152768823.html

Weistec EA839 W.3 Turbo Upgrade Audi B9 RS5: https://www.vividracing.com/weistec-...152770755.html

[PI5]

Seatbelt and JoeYoro, Id love to get your opinions on this.
I was on the dyno last week and struggled to make more than 355awhp on a stage 1 tune. I figured the car was pulling timing due to the IAT's. This is what the JB4 indicated.

Max boost on Map 3 at 24.7psi at around 3200rpm. IAT's sitting at 118f, then spiked to 130F at 6000rpm whilst boost dropped down to 17psi. seemed to make max power around 4000rpm, then hit a wall and drop right off.

What IAT's would the car start pulling timing?

Im on a stock cooling system.

[Seatbelt]

Seatbelt and JoeYoro, Id love to get your opinions on this.
I was on the dyno last week and struggled to make more than 355awhp on a stage 1 tune. I figured the car was pulling timing due to the IAT's. This is what the JB4 indicated.

Max boost on Map 3 at 24.7psi at around 3200rpm. IAT's sitting at 118f, then spiked to 130F at 6000rpm whilst boost dropped down to 17psi. seemed to make max power around 4000rpm, then hit a wall and drop right off.

What IAT's would the car start pulling timing?

Im on a stock cooling system.

I recommend sending your logs from those runs to [email protected] as a start. If you post your logs here, I'm sure a number of people would weigh in too.

[idrinkv8]

Seatbelt and JoeYoro, Id love to get your opinions on this.
I was on the dyno last week and struggled to make more than 355awhp on a stage 1 tune. I figured the car was pulling timing due to the IAT's. This is what the JB4 indicated.

Max boost on Map 3 at 24.7psi at around 3200rpm. IAT's sitting at 118f, then spiked to 130F at 6000rpm whilst boost dropped down to 17psi. seemed to make max power around 4000rpm, then hit a wall and drop right off.

What IAT's would the car start pulling timing?

Im on a stock cooling system.

355 is wayyy too low. Something is wrong. Stock they make more than that.

Post your logs here.
Mod list and who installed everything.

[PI5]

Ok here are the logs. First one is Map 0, the second Map 3.
Map 0 - 348awhp
Map 3 - gained on 15 awhp at 363awhp.

this is with an intake, high flow downpipes, 98 RON fuel.

Should be making more power on Map 3, and possibly more stock on Map 0.

Any thoughts on the logs

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2dh2am9uj8...0Logs.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ubvhopc4r2...0logs.jpg?dl=0

[Seatbelt]

Ok here are the logs. First one is Map 0, the second Map 3.
Map 0 - 348awhp
Map 3 - gained on 15 awhp at 363awhp.

this is with an intake, high flow downpipes, 98 RON fuel.

Should be making more power on Map 3, and possibly more stock on Map 0.

Any thoughts on the logs

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2dh2am9uj8...0Logs.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ubvhopc4r2...0logs.jpg?dl=0

I'm not sure IATs are your issue. First thing I noticed on both runs is that it looks like you have the Meth settings enabled. Are you running meth injection?

If not, I would make sure you have the identical User Adjustment Settings to what is recommended here: https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49608

[PI5]

No wasnt running meth. Thats interesting.
Problem is we ditched the JB4 and opted for a stage 2 ECU tune, which again hit a wall at 363 awhp.
Could the JB4 have changed anything permanently?

[Seatbelt]

No wasnt running meth. Thats interesting.
Problem is we ditched the JB4 and opted for a stage 2 ECU tune, which again hit a wall at 363 awhp.
Could the JB4 have changed anything permanently?

May be a fuel/octane issue. If you have access to e85 (run 5 gal e85 and top off with 98 RON) or use a high quality octane booster and in the jb4 set fuel open loop to 100 in the user settings, it may fix your timing issue. If that doesn't work, have your shop check out the plugs/coils and other components.

The jb4 makes no permanent changes to the ECU. You can leave it installed, set to Map 0 and continue to use it for logging or even augment your tune.

[sogood]

I went with the TTE7XX turbos and coupled it with the ABT additional intercooler and water pump, bashed out hi-flow cats and exhaust all tuned up. There was a noticeable turbo spool noise even routing it through the stock intake that was inaudible before, I opened it up with an intake and the spool sound was worth the swap for me. I come from a long history of rice so, I like that stuff. Power wise I was dyno'd on a Dyno Dynamics stock 362 HP/427 Lb/Ft to the tuned up 490HP/519 Lb/Ft on a 95 Octane Tune. Unless you are trying to tangle with exotics or just want really big power a hybrid turbo setup is probably all you will need, you will retain factory-like throttle response just with a lot more punch. Because they are generally the same turbos you can also install them and drive them without tuning if you were still waiting to complete your build before tuning with no ill effects. That being said at this point the cars are more cooling and octane limited than turbo limited. I know Teknika is running a 800 hybrid turbo setup and he hasn't even hit that ceiling yet and that thing is blazing fast.

https://youtu.be/IR5u-HN2dZo

What tune are you running?

[joeyoro]

It is a custom one by DynoComp. They appear to be the only one in my area to be able to.