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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Springs: SLine v H&R v Eibach Pro

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    Currently running OEM SLine suspension on my MY16 A6 TDI. Going to upgrade the shocks to Koni Special Active dampers which should help to take a little edge of the harshness during highway driving (which is my #1 goal).

    Was considering upgrading the springs at the same time, anyone go from SLine OEM to either H&R or Eibach? Any feedback on ride quality would be appreciated (not looking for more drop, ride height is fine by a little drop without sacrificing ride quality would be fine... not likely I realize.)

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Three Rings eurospek's Avatar
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    Then avoid H&R. I have barely a one finger gap up front and solid 1.5 finger gap in back with H&R Sports on stock dampers.

  3. #3
    Established Member Two Rings
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    What springs did you start with? How has the ride changed overall?

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Three Rings eurospek's Avatar
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    Oem S-Line suspension. It’s definitely more harsher now. But that’s to be expected with lowering springs. Not my first lowered car. And hope to dump it before needing new dampers.

  5. #5
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Thanks for the feedback, appreciated.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Three Rings prestige.phantom's Avatar
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    I went from standard suspension to Eibach. Eibach is definitely rougher than stock, but not bad. Theres some more vibrations and bumps, but the car is not unbearable by any means. As far as drop is concerned, I went from roughly 4 to 5 fingers of gap all around to a tight 2. Not absurd drop by any means, but its a definitely lower.
    2013 Audi A6 3.0T Prestige
    | Phantom Black Pearl | Nougat Brown interior | LED Headlights | Cold Weather PKG | 20" Sport PKG Wheels & 3 Spoke Heated Wheel | Fine Grain Ash Natural Inlays | Michelin Pilot Sport AS3+ Y | OEM "Rings" Puddle Lights |
    | AWE Touring Exhaust | JHM Non-Res DPs | Eibach Pro Kit & Bilstein B4 Sport Shocks | Eurocode Trans Mount | JBX Carrier | S8 Front Brakes w/ EBC Red Pads | 034 ECU 93 STG 1, TCU, Rear Swaybar, and Endlinks |
    IG: @prestige.phantom @ctautoart

  7. #7
    Established Member Two Rings dmvinnyfl's Avatar
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    What model number Koni's did you go with?

  8. #8
    Established Member Two Rings
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    (Front) 8245 1264, (Rear) 8045 1265. Verified by Koni.

    https://www.koni-na.com/en-US/NorthA...=161&mk=3&mt=1
    Last edited by OC Pablo; 08-04-2020 at 01:21 AM. Reason: Added url

  9. #9
    Active Member One Ring
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    Keep the stock S Line suspension... i dont understand how it can be harsh. What size wheels do you have? 20s? And coil spring change will make it harsher. 19’s are good and 18’s will aid comfort even more

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Three Rings NAR Mike's Avatar
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    OP, are you're interested in selling your OEM S-Line springs?

    Not to thread-ack, but has anyone tried Bilstein B4 Sport Suspension shocks?
    2014 AUDI Q5 3.0T
    2015 PORSCHE MACAN S

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Three Rings prestige.phantom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimatter View Post
    OP, are you're interested in selling your OEM S-Line springs?

    Not to thread-ack, but has anyone tried Bilstein B4 Sport Suspension shocks?
    Yes. I am running them rn.
    2013 Audi A6 3.0T Prestige
    | Phantom Black Pearl | Nougat Brown interior | LED Headlights | Cold Weather PKG | 20" Sport PKG Wheels & 3 Spoke Heated Wheel | Fine Grain Ash Natural Inlays | Michelin Pilot Sport AS3+ Y | OEM "Rings" Puddle Lights |
    | AWE Touring Exhaust | JHM Non-Res DPs | Eibach Pro Kit & Bilstein B4 Sport Shocks | Eurocode Trans Mount | JBX Carrier | S8 Front Brakes w/ EBC Red Pads | 034 ECU 93 STG 1, TCU, Rear Swaybar, and Endlinks |
    IG: @prestige.phantom @ctautoart

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Three Rings NAR Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prestige.phantom View Post
    Yes. I am running them rn.
    With OEM sport springs? How is ride height? I'm guessing the handling is much improved?
    2014 AUDI Q5 3.0T
    2015 PORSCHE MACAN S

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Three Rings prestige.phantom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimatter View Post
    With OEM sport springs? How is ride height? I'm guessing the handling is much improved?
    With Eibach springs. I am about two fingers of gap all around. There is much less body roll, but a little more vibration and uncertainty at high speeds. So id say its a marginal improvement handling wise.
    2013 Audi A6 3.0T Prestige
    | Phantom Black Pearl | Nougat Brown interior | LED Headlights | Cold Weather PKG | 20" Sport PKG Wheels & 3 Spoke Heated Wheel | Fine Grain Ash Natural Inlays | Michelin Pilot Sport AS3+ Y | OEM "Rings" Puddle Lights |
    | AWE Touring Exhaust | JHM Non-Res DPs | Eibach Pro Kit & Bilstein B4 Sport Shocks | Eurocode Trans Mount | JBX Carrier | S8 Front Brakes w/ EBC Red Pads | 034 ECU 93 STG 1, TCU, Rear Swaybar, and Endlinks |
    IG: @prestige.phantom @ctautoart

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings RedS-line's Avatar
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    2019 S5, 1990 944 S2
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulo744 View Post
    Keep the stock S Line suspension... i dont understand how it can be harsh. What size wheels do you have? 20s? And coil spring change will make it harsher. 19’s are good and 18’s will aid comfort even more
    You nailed it. If stock suspension is too stiff, dont buy aftermarket. Softer tires and/or tire pressures might help you
    2019 S5 BO.SS
    1990 944S2 Cabriolet
    2009 R8 6 Volt :)

  15. #15
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Was just quoted $965 to install the Eibach Pros. Does that sound asinine to anyone else or am I being naive in regards to the time/labor involved in doing so?
    2016 S8+. DS1 Custom Tune by Racebox, Boost Creations Intake, Autotech HPFP Plungers, LPFP Lines, Flex Sensor, btres, berk TCU. 1/4 mile 10.37 @ 134. 0-60 in 2.69

    2016 A6 3.0T Prestige, APR Stage 2 Dual Pulley, ECS Intake, JHM Heat Exchanger, Melen TCU Tune. 1/4 mile 11.37 @ 120.29, 0-60 in 3.36

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Three Rings eurospek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by academytim View Post
    Was just quoted $965 to install the Eibach Pros. Does that sound asinine to anyone else or am I being naive in regards to the time/labor involved in doing so?
    I paid $600 by a very reputable Porsche tuner shop for my installation.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Three Rings prestige.phantom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by academytim View Post
    Was just quoted $965 to install the Eibach Pros. Does that sound asinine to anyone else or am I being naive in regards to the time/labor involved in doing so?
    My install cost was close to that cost, but I installed new shocks, top hats, and alignment too. I wouldn't say that cost is outrageous, but im sure there are better deals out there.
    2013 Audi A6 3.0T Prestige
    | Phantom Black Pearl | Nougat Brown interior | LED Headlights | Cold Weather PKG | 20" Sport PKG Wheels & 3 Spoke Heated Wheel | Fine Grain Ash Natural Inlays | Michelin Pilot Sport AS3+ Y | OEM "Rings" Puddle Lights |
    | AWE Touring Exhaust | JHM Non-Res DPs | Eibach Pro Kit & Bilstein B4 Sport Shocks | Eurocode Trans Mount | JBX Carrier | S8 Front Brakes w/ EBC Red Pads | 034 ECU 93 STG 1, TCU, Rear Swaybar, and Endlinks |
    IG: @prestige.phantom @ctautoart

  18. #18
    Established Member Two Rings
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    I’m considering this same setup. How did the Eibach Pro & Koni Special active combo workout (ride comfort and handling)?


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

  19. #19
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Update: I went and installed the Koni Special Actives, and kept the OEM SLine springs. I am working on a deeper review, but here is the short of it.

    Goal: To minimize some harshness, specifically when I hit expansion joints/repairs on freeways specifically. (Mind you, I live in SoCal and or the most part our freeways are pretty smooth... not Germany smooth, but nothing like major metros like Chicago, NY, etc..)

    I chose the KSA's based on a recent installation by a family member who put them on his 20yr old 911. Good feedback. Watched all the videos I could find, called Koni to make sure I was getting what I was looking for. The biggest challenge was determining if I wanted to add the Eibach Pro springs. These were bought based on some conversations I had with A6/S6 owners in Europe. From what I learned, the SLine suspension on the C6 series was very good. Lots of people I met shared with me that Audi completely missed the SLine suspension on the C7 series and many owners who had the C6 series were trying to find the best combination to mimic what the C6 had (which was a combination of excellent highway comfort and solid performance/capabilities when the driving gets 'fun').

    Again, I was not trying to build a track day car... this is a daily that can see 200-300 miles a day for work purposes at times. I was not expecting Lincoln Town Car smooth... just a little upgrade which Koni was 100% certain these shocks would provide.

    As advertised, the KSA's as designed would "lessen the harshness on impact of small irregularities and give a more connected feel vs the stock suspension." I speaking with Koni, the only variable would be the springs. I looked for over a month to try and figure out the spring rate of the stock SLine springs (never found) to compare to the Eibach's. In speaking with Eibach (VERY helpful), they were able to give me the spring rates for the Eibach Pro's and spring rates for the C7 A6 OEM springs they tested against... but they could not tell me what the OEM springs were they compared to. Stock? SLine? No idea. But the spring rate delta was 30ftlb's, which was less than 10% stiffer than the stock versions they tested against.

    When installing the Koni's I took a look at the stock SLine springs and it was obvious, the number of coils of the Eibach's and the coil diameter as compared to the OEM's would result in a stiffer spring, and probably more than 10%. Interestingly, the spring length was almost identical to the stock SLine, so the drop people are getting has to be based on the spring winding (Eibach's have twice as many coils but a slightly smaller coil diameter.)


    Result:

    Not only did the Koni's NOT remove the harshness I was looking for, they have actually made the ride a bit worse overall. Two major issues.

    1. The stock front shock tower has a rubber donut that is attached to the spring perch. This is bonded to the shock perch, and I assume it's purpose is to reduce vibration/road noise. Has to be, because the amount of road noise I now get has increased quite a bit.

    2. I know this may not seem logical, but the shocks are a bit harsh until they seemly warm up a bit. It's not slammed on cheap coilover's harsh... but every bump is now pronounced and transmits throughout he entire car. Add the aforementioned increase in road noise and layer in a few new rattles (I HATE rattles)... ugh.

    BUT... as these warm up they do seem to remove a little of the impact harshness on the freeway, but the added road noise makes it seem a lot worse.

    AND... When you consider I am running H&R swaybars F&R the addition of the Koni's has made the car overall much tighter. The best way to describe this is the car feels more like a A4 size vs A6. Smaller, quicker to respond to input... it is just a bit sharper in the handling area. That was a pleasant surprise as my rig is a TDI.

    Another interesting fact... we corner weighed the car before and after the shock upgrade, and the front to rear weight bias is damn near 50/50 (literally less than 20 lbs delta on a 4200 lb vehicle... we were stunned!). Corner balance was very, very good as well... not as close as the F/R but something so minimal we agreed shimming would be pointless as the suspension is limited on adjustability overall.)

    Installation was very straight forward. Every bolt/nut was (per Audi spec) replaced, torqued in steps and with the suspension under load at pre-measured ride hight... and re-checked a week later.


    So now what?

    First step is I am going to see if I can pry off the rubber doughnuts off the front OEM shocks and mount them to the Koni's in some fashion to confirm what they actually do. If I can reverse some of the road noise, maybe the KSA's stay on as I do like the overall 'tightness' of the suspension when in fun mode (another costly option would be to Dynamat the floor). I am also talking with Koni to see if they have any thoughts on if these shocks are ideal for my needs, so far they are 'surprised' that I have not seen an immediate (even if subtle) improvement on ride quality and the road noise increase has them asking questions at the factory/engineering level.

    I have had more than a few people recommend the Bilstein "Green Body" Touring shocks. Sold in Europe, I have had more than a few people tell me these are what I am looking for and a couple people share their opinion that the Bilstein Green's w/the Eibach Pros are a winning combination. (So for now the springs are BNIB waiting for what's next.)

    Lastly, I am going to probably pull the springs off and have the spring rates determined. From there I can decide on the Eibachs, even if the spring rates are a bit stiffer (310ftlb vs 330ftlb for example) I might make the swap if they would work better with a different shock. I am also looking into the cost/availability of the Bilstein Green versions cost wise and may try that.


    In conclusion would I recommend the KSA? Probably only if your car is due for new shocks and you want to tighten up the overall feel a bit. Do they work as advertised... well not for what I was trying to do, but again on smooth roads they are as good as the OEM but the road noise is a definite factor.

    Finally... for those of you ready to respond with "well what were you expecting, they are a SPORT shock" hold off on that thought. The whole premise of the KSA was an overall IMPROVED ride quality vs stock. Watch the videos... you'll find they compared everything on a BMW, but they never tested them on a M series (or for that matter sport style suspension... at least I was not able to determine that). Koni reps I have spoken with are all surprised with my experience, and are willing to swap out the shocks but I can't say they are not operating correctly. They also can't explain why the shocks seems to 'settle' and the ride quality improves after 15-20 minutes of driving. Until we can determine if something is not correct, why go through a swap out only to find the same issue. They are trying to confirm what the rubber doughnut does, they agree it probably helps with road noise type vibrations... appreciate they are willing to ask the factory for feedback. Overall, Koni has been awesome in response/feedback.

    I hope this info is helpful... feel free to PM me if you have more questions.
    Attached Images
    2016 A6 TDI Prestige: OEM RS4 Rims 20", Alcon Mono 6 Front BBK, S6 Rear Rotors, SS Brakelines, Koni Special Active Dampers, Eibach Pro Springs, H&R Swaybars F/R

  20. #20
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Nov 03 2019
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    524973
    Location
    San Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by OC Pablo View Post
    Update: I went and installed the Koni Special Actives, and kept the OEM SLine springs. I am working on a deeper review, but here is the short of it.

    Goal: To minimize some harshness, specifically when I hit expansion joints/repairs on freeways specifically. (Mind you, I live in SoCal and or the most part our freeways are pretty smooth... not Germany smooth, but nothing like major metros like Chicago, NY, etc..)

    I chose the KSA's based on a recent installation by a family member who put them on his 20yr old 911. Good feedback. Watched all the videos I could find, called Koni to make sure I was getting what I was looking for. The biggest challenge was determining if I wanted to add the Eibach Pro springs. These were bought based on some conversations I had with A6/S6 owners in Europe. From what I learned, the SLine suspension on the C6 series was very good. Lots of people I met shared with me that Audi completely missed the SLine suspension on the C7 series and many owners who had the C6 series were trying to find the best combination to mimic what the C6 had (which was a combination of excellent highway comfort and solid performance/capabilities when the driving gets 'fun').

    Again, I was not trying to build a track day car... this is a daily that can see 200-300 miles a day for work purposes at times. I was not expecting Lincoln Town Car smooth... just a little upgrade which Koni was 100% certain these shocks would provide.

    As advertised, the KSA's as designed would "lessen the harshness on impact of small irregularities and give a more connected feel vs the stock suspension." I speaking with Koni, the only variable would be the springs. I looked for over a month to try and figure out the spring rate of the stock SLine springs (never found) to compare to the Eibach's. In speaking with Eibach (VERY helpful), they were able to give me the spring rates for the Eibach Pro's and spring rates for the C7 A6 OEM springs they tested against... but they could not tell me what the OEM springs were they compared to. Stock? SLine? No idea. But the spring rate delta was 30ftlb's, which was less than 10% stiffer than the stock versions they tested against.

    When installing the Koni's I took a look at the stock SLine springs and it was obvious, the number of coils of the Eibach's and the coil diameter as compared to the OEM's would result in a stiffer spring, and probably more than 10%. Interestingly, the spring length was almost identical to the stock SLine, so the drop people are getting has to be based on the spring winding (Eibach's have twice as many coils but a slightly smaller coil diameter.)


    Result:

    Not only did the Koni's NOT remove the harshness I was looking for, they have actually made the ride a bit worse overall. Two major issues.

    1. The stock front shock tower has a rubber donut that is attached to the spring perch. This is bonded to the shock perch, and I assume it's purpose is to reduce vibration/road noise. Has to be, because the amount of road noise I now get has increased quite a bit.

    2. I know this may not seem logical, but the shocks are a bit harsh until they seemly warm up a bit. It's not slammed on cheap coilover's harsh... but every bump is now pronounced and transmits throughout he entire car. Add the aforementioned increase in road noise and layer in a few new rattles (I HATE rattles)... ugh.

    BUT... as these warm up they do seem to remove a little of the impact harshness on the freeway, but the added road noise makes it seem a lot worse.

    AND... When you consider I am running H&R swaybars F&R the addition of the Koni's has made the car overall much tighter. The best way to describe this is the car feels more like a A4 size vs A6. Smaller, quicker to respond to input... it is just a bit sharper in the handling area. That was a pleasant surprise as my rig is a TDI.

    Another interesting fact... we corner weighed the car before and after the shock upgrade, and the front to rear weight bias is damn near 50/50 (literally less than 20 lbs delta on a 4200 lb vehicle... we were stunned!). Corner balance was very, very good as well... not as close as the F/R but something so minimal we agreed shimming would be pointless as the suspension is limited on adjustability overall.)

    Installation was very straight forward. Every bolt/nut was (per Audi spec) replaced, torqued in steps and with the suspension under load at pre-measured ride hight... and re-checked a week later.


    So now what?

    First step is I am going to see if I can pry off the rubber doughnuts off the front OEM shocks and mount them to the Koni's in some fashion to confirm what they actually do. If I can reverse some of the road noise, maybe the KSA's stay on as I do like the overall 'tightness' of the suspension when in fun mode (another costly option would be to Dynamat the floor). I am also talking with Koni to see if they have any thoughts on if these shocks are ideal for my needs, so far they are 'surprised' that I have not seen an immediate (even if subtle) improvement on ride quality and the road noise increase has them asking questions at the factory/engineering level.

    I have had more than a few people recommend the Bilstein "Green Body" Touring shocks. Sold in Europe, I have had more than a few people tell me these are what I am looking for and a couple people share their opinion that the Bilstein Green's w/the Eibach Pros are a winning combination. (So for now the springs are BNIB waiting for what's next.)

    Lastly, I am going to probably pull the springs off and have the spring rates determined. From there I can decide on the Eibachs, even if the spring rates are a bit stiffer (310ftlb vs 330ftlb for example) I might make the swap if they would work better with a different shock. I am also looking into the cost/availability of the Bilstein Green versions cost wise and may try that.


    In conclusion would I recommend the KSA? Probably only if your car is due for new shocks and you want to tighten up the overall feel a bit. Do they work as advertised... well not for what I was trying to do, but again on smooth roads they are as good as the OEM but the road noise is a definite factor.

    Finally... for those of you ready to respond with "well what were you expecting, they are a SPORT shock" hold off on that thought. The whole premise of the KSA was an overall IMPROVED ride quality vs stock. Watch the videos... you'll find they compared everything on a BMW, but they never tested them on a M series (or for that matter sport style suspension... at least I was not able to determine that). Koni reps I have spoken with are all surprised with my experience, and are willing to swap out the shocks but I can't say they are not operating correctly. They also can't explain why the shocks seems to 'settle' and the ride quality improves after 15-20 minutes of driving. Until we can determine if something is not correct, why go through a swap out only to find the same issue. They are trying to confirm what the rubber doughnut does, they agree it probably helps with road noise type vibrations... appreciate they are willing to ask the factory for feedback. Overall, Koni has been awesome in response/feedback.

    I hope this info is helpful... feel free to PM me if you have more questions.
    Thanks for the detailed feedback. Much appreciated. Sounds like this is not the winning combo I was hoping for though.

  21. #21
    Established Member Two Rings James115's Avatar
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    Jun 02 2021
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    Audi A6 3.0 TFSI ABT, Mercedes C63 amg
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    Good morning, since I new to replace my coilover, I would know which coilover and spring to run in order to improve the handling, I am planning to make other improvement ma like the swaybar and chassis brace. But definitely I absolutely want to avoid harshness

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