Tuning and Getting Flagged (GIAC)

**Swipple** · 07-22-2020 10:06 AM

Hey all,

I was wondering if anyone has any reliable insight on flash tuning (GIAC) and getting flagged. Obviously if I were to take my car in with an active tune it would get flagged, however, I have heard that since Oil Consumption Audi is checking the reset counter on the ECU and flagging based on that, is this true?

**chrisdazzo** · 07-22-2020 10:57 AM

My understanding since a couple years ago is that the moment Audi plugs in to OBD, their software auto-flags any Audi with a flash count.

**Swipple** · 07-26-2020 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by chrisdazzo

My understanding since a couple years ago is that the moment Audi plugs in to OBD, their software auto-flags any Audi with a flash count.

Chris,

That was my understanding as well, thank you. Anyone else that can give a hard confirm?

**underboss24** · 07-27-2020 01:42 AM

100% it’s auto and goes right to HQ. No escaping it. Tell the dealer not to plug in.

**Swipple** · 07-27-2020 06:27 AM

TY Underboss!

**IanCH** · 07-27-2020 07:26 AM

It's quite a bit more complicated than that.

The flash counter is reset by all the modern tunes when you flash back to the "stock" program. You are unlikely to encounter that method of flagging unless you leave the car for service with the tune software installed.

The real bugger for those trying to avoid detection is a process called GFF (Guided Fault Finding) which does a deeper read into the system. If the dealer performs GFF on a car that has been tuned they will find evidence of the tune and it will be auto flagged to Audi corporate. There is no avoiding that through any method.

Here's some key takeaways that I have learned through some experience with this stuff and the many threads discussing this on AZ and other forums. If tuning your car and looking for warranty support:

1) Your relationship with your dealer matters
2) Your dealer's individual policies on tuned vehicles matters
3) If you tune the car you should be prepared to pay for any drivetrain related repairs yourself.
4) Regular maintenance is best done a performance shop if you wish to minimize the exposure to the dealer detecting your tune (installed tune or flashed back)
5) If you get TD1'd by Audi it may go out of your dealer's hands to provide you with warranty repairs to the vehicle. Again your dealer's specific policies matter.

**Swipple** · 07-27-2020 09:59 AM

Thank you for the additional detail Ian

**Swipple** · 07-27-2020 10:32 AM

Thank you for the additional detail Ian!

**303 Spartan** · 07-27-2020 10:32 AM

To add to IanCH's informative post, I think it's also worth shedding light on the common misconception that tuning via piggyback is completely untraceable by Audi.

Sure, this method of tuning will avoid tripping the flash counter, making any 'tampering' more difficult to trace. As a result, it's unlikely that you'll get flagged TD1 for standard warranty repairs/service. However, Audi techs I've spoken with have made it quite clear that if serious drivetrain repairs are necessary, Audi will not only check the flash counter, but will also look at ECU data logs to ensure that all parameters remained within factory spec. For instance, if they find that boost levels ever exceeded factory specified limits, it will throw a red flag and will very likely result in your pricey warranty claim getting denied.

Which is funny because the only way to wipe ECU data is with a full reflash of the ECU. This will obviously trip the flash counter. So it's a proper catch-22.

All this to say that before you decide to tune via piggyback or full ECU reflash, take a step back and consider that either way, if things truly go awry, you need to be ready to pay for repairs out of pocket.

**wwhan** · 07-27-2020 02:49 PM

Also EPL tunes DO NOT reset the Flash counter, which means every time the ECU is Flashed with a EPL tune update, the Flash counter increments by one.

**Tony@EPL** · 07-27-2020 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by wwhan

Also EPL tunes DO NOT reset the Flash counter, which means every time the ECU is Flashed with a EPL tune update, the Flash counter increments by one.

Not entirely accurate.

First, Ill start by saying weather its a piggie back or a flash... if you modify your car you should be prepared to pay for repairs out of pocket. We've never advertised flashing to stock as a way to circumvent being flagged.

When you flash your car to STOCK with our system, in many cases the flash counter will increment (but not always). As someone stated above is this is the "catch 22" and will likely be an accurate statement for most/many/all of my competitors once they offer port flash (we are still the only one offering this option to date).

When you flash your car from EPL to EPL (updates, map switching) it most likely will NOT increment the flash counter(almost defiantly wont after running the v1.2 update). This was not the case on many tunes our earlier adopters were on, but changes have since been made.

We have several document case of s4/s5's going in for warranty repair or recalls and NOT being TD1'd with a stock ecu after being tuned. We have confirmed many of these cars were actually plugged into and scanned by Audi with information unloaded. This is REAL data and repeatably proven.

Furthermore we have documentation that details SOME (and in fairness I wont say all) of what the criteria is for Audi to TD1 a car and interestingly flash counter isnt mentioned once! If you have facts/documents that suggest other wise I would love to read them.

I'm willing to be fairly transparent on this if anyone has questions.

**wwhan** · 07-27-2020 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Tony@EPL

Not entirely accurate.

First, Ill start by saying weather its a piggie back or a flash... if you modify your car you should be prepared to pay for repairs out of pocket. We've never advertised flashing to stock as a way to circumvent being flagged.

When you flash your car to STOCK with our system, in many cases the flash counter will increment (but not always). As someone stated above is this is the "catch 22" and will likely be an accurate statement for most/many/all of my competitors once they offer port flash (we are still the only one offering this option to date).

When you flash your car from EPL to EPL (updates, map switching) it most likely will NOT increment the flash counter(almost defiantly wont after running the v1.2 update). This was not the case on many tunes our earlier adopters were on, but changes have since been made.

We have several document case of s4/s5's going in for warranty repair or recalls and NOT being TD1'd with a stock ecu after being tuned. We have confirmed many of these cars were actually plugged into and scanned by Audi with information unloaded. This is REAL data and repeatably proven.

Furthermore we have documentation that details SOME (and in fairness I wont say all) of what the criteria is for Audi to TD1 a car and interestingly flash counter isnt mentioned once! If you have facts/documents that suggest other wise I would love to read them.

I'm willing to be fairly transparent on this if anyone has questions.

I had an EPL tune on my previous car, so I have seen how many times the Flash counter has incremented & it was not only a couple times. So, yes the Flash counter does increment with at least some of the EPL ECU tunes.

**Tony@EPL** · 07-27-2020 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by wwhan

I had an EPL tune on my previous car, so I have seen how many times the Flash counter has incremented & it was not only a couple times. So, yes the Flash counter does increment with at least some of the EPL ECU tunes.

Nearly ever VAG platform is unique... this is one of the first VAG platforms to use this ECU and we don’t even supply a tune for the vehicle you own.

The RS5 ecu is different then the S4, so really it’s hard for your current and past experience to weigh in on what happens here.....

**Kabukijoe** · 10-17-2021 08:23 AM

I once had a guy in the service department advise me to re-flash to stock then drive 60 miles before bringing it in for warranty work as if it'll not get flagged or something... I've yet to try it but does anyone have any insight on this?

**zac3707** · 10-18-2021 05:31 AM

If you are flagged by Audi at a service visit, do they have to let you know that youve been flagged? Or is it kept a secret until something goes wrong

**ywang98** · 10-18-2021 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Kabukijoe

I once had a guy in the service department advise me to re-flash to stock then drive 60 miles before bringing it in for warranty work as if it'll not get flagged or something... I've yet to try it but does anyone have any insight on this?

I was told by my service advisor as well of this. He's mod friendly, but he said that Audi will know regardless. He did tell me that if I was tuned, I need to let him know first when servicing.

**VVG** · 10-18-2021 09:28 AM

I do not know if this possible today, but years ago, a had three ECUs for my then highly modded Audi. Two had different tunes, and one was stock. Is it still possible to keep a stock ECU and just switch it out with the tuned one? I am thinking, no, but just confirming.

**JohnEnglish** · 10-18-2021 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by VVG

I do not know if this possible today, but years ago, a had three ECUs for my then highly modded Audi. Two had different tunes, and one was stock. Is it still possible to keep a stock ECU and just switch it out with the tuned one? I am thinking, no, but just confirming.

It's not. ECUs have to be paired with car. You can only have one ECU at a time paired with the car. Audi learned its lesson from the B5 S4.

**Bezlar** · 10-18-2021 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Tony@EPL

Nearly ever VAG platform is unique... this is one of the first VAG platforms to use this ECU and we don’t even supply a tune for the vehicle you own.

The RS5 ecu is different then the S4, so really it’s hard for your current and past experience to weigh in on what happens here.....

Any chance you guys are working on a tune for the rs5?

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