VCDS clone from AliExpress

[context.eax]

Have anyone use such a clone (not genuine) vcds cable from aliexpress?
I see you can get one with unlimited vins for like $27
They usually come with a fixed version of the vcds sw and you are probably not going to be able to upgrade to newer versions.


Sent from my iPhone

[MSq5]

And no customer support. Getting technical help from Ross Tech for service access codes to solve diagnostic issues is a huge part of the benefit of owning VCDS.

I had a steering angle issue. The scan showed the electric steering calibration needed to be done. I would do it per regular on-line suggestions, but it would fall out of calibration in a few days. Ross Tech provided information on how to recode the module. That provided a permanent solution. This came from direct email information supplier by Ross Tech employee exchanges with me.

All this and frequent updates for onlyna one time charge of $199.

Even if your knock off works, you will not get that support or updates.

And, does the Chinese intellectual property theft represented by this device bother you? It would me.

[o1turbo30v]

You drive a $55k plus car but want to save $150 on something that interacts with all the electronics on your car.....bold strategy Cotton.

[Spike Spiegel]

You drive a $55k plus car but want to save $150 on something that interacts with all the electronics on your car.....bold strategy Cotton.

Let's see if it pays off for em.. But seriously OP, I wouldn't go down that path. I wouldn't trust it personally. I wouldn't be comfortable plugging in anything other than a VCDS/OBDelven/Carista into my car personally. One of the few things I personally can't cheap out on a car no matter the cost of the car itself (granted the last two are cheaper than the VCDS, but have known record of working). Diagnostic tools, tires, rims, gas and oil.


Best,


Space Cowboy

[RSKYBET]

And, does the Chinese intellectual property theft represented by this device bother you? It would me.

I’m really glad to see someone call this out.

...but want to save $150 on something that interacts with all the electronics on your car...

Exactly.

Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[context.eax]

You drive a $55k plus car but want to save $150 on something that interacts with all the electronics on your car.....bold strategy Cotton.

$55 for and rs3. Lol. That was a good one :)
I would probably get a stripped down A3 for $55k. Rs3 in my country is $100k ++

I also have a genuine vcds cable. In fact I have 2. The older com version and the not so old hex-can that works fine atm on my 18 rs3.

My question is about the fake one and if it works. What kind of chip they are using. Atmel or stm32 etc. Since I dont have the newer v2 cable I want to know what kind of encryption they use / have updates to.
Do they use aes, rsa or ecc?
Will they leak info on the side channel for the chipwhisperer to pick up etc.

I wont use it on my car but I want to figure out how it works.
Hope you understand.


Sent from my iPhone

[S3DUDE]

Don't buy Chinese stuff, everything they do is crap. You coming from an advanced modern European country should never consider buying anything from them. They do copyright infringements, they don't have quality controls like the Westerners, they don't have a structural customer service like what you would find on civilized western countries. I know I might sound like an a*shole but I dislike what China is doing to the west as far is stealing copyrights and technology.

[context.eax]

Don't buy Chinese stuff, everything they do is crap. You coming from an advanced modern European country should never consider buying anything from them. They do copyright infringements, they don't have quality controls like the Westerners, they don't have a structural customer service like what you would find on civilized western countries. I know I might sound like an a*shole but I dislike what China is doing to the west as far is stealing copyrights and technology.

Don’t be so hard on them when they are just trying to make a living :)
They are born into a dictator ship (yes I know that some says its not but it is:)) and they know that complaining is not an option. If they do they end up in jail or ever worse. This is why quality control makes no sense for them coz no one would dare say that something is bad / wrong. They just don’t know how to criticize coz of they’re way of living. This is why they make a product and let the rest of the world complain for so to release a “pro” version where they have tried to fix some of the problems. I guess if I lived over there I might have done the same.
And yes I know its pretty annoying ordering something that is a fake and wont work like a 1TB SD card that is in fact 16gig when you get it. Some thing you can order and some thing you just buy locally coz of quality.
Take a look at the air intake for the rs3. That is way to expensive for what you get (or at least this is my opinion). I don’t need a carbon version of it. If I could find a Chinese plastic copy I would have ordered it already and perhaps bought a filter locally.
For the v2 VCDS cable I don’t like the new licensing they have where you have to order it based on how many vins you want. I guess they want to make more money from car shops that uses their product but for me to pay this extra makes no sense. Or I wont if there exist some other option. This is where AliExpress comes to rescue and I consider buying a copy / clone. But it would be nice to know if it works on the rs3 before I order and thats why I asked this question.
Remember they are people too that want to survive in this world ;)

I will of course have a closer look at it and perhaps make my own version that can use the vcds software. I have coded on these kind chips (that is pic, atmega and stm32) for many years now so I only need to know how it works. (makes it much easier to reverse engineer when you have a working product)

Guess its me now that sound like an a*shole :)


Sent from my iPhone

[MSq5]

Don’t be so hard on them when they are just trying to make a living :)
They are born into a dictator ship (yes I know that some says its not but it is:)) and they know that complaining is not an option. If they do they end up in jail or ever worse. This is why quality control makes no sense for them coz no one would dare say that something is bad / wrong. They just don’t know how to criticize coz of they’re way of living. This is why they make a product and let the rest of the world complain for so to release a “pro” version where they have tried to fix some of the problems. I guess if I lived over there I might have done the same.
And yes I know its pretty annoying ordering something that is a fake and wont work like a 1TB SD card that is in fact 16gig when you get it. Some thing you can order and some thing you just buy locally coz of quality.
Take a look at the air intake for the rs3. That is way to expensive for what you get (or at least this is my opinion). I don’t need a carbon version of it. If I could find a Chinese plastic copy I would have ordered it already and perhaps bought a filter locally.
For the v2 VCDS cable I don’t like the new licensing they have where you have to order it based on how many vins you want. I guess they want to make more money from car shops that uses their product but for me to pay this extra makes no sense. Or I wont if there exist some other option. This is where AliExpress comes to rescue and I consider buying a copy / clone. But it would be nice to know if it works on the rs3 before I order and thats why I asked this question.
Remember they are people too that want to survive in this world ;)

I will of course have a closer look at it and perhaps make my own version that can use the vcds software. I have coded on these kind chips (that is pic, atmega and stm32) for many years now so I only need to know how it works. (makes it much easier to reverse engineer when you have a working product)

Guess its me now that sound like an a*shole :)


Sent from my iPhone

It's not being hard on Chicom poor that is the concern. Its the blatant theft of intellectual property that purchasing this stuff condones and supports.

A company works hard, plays by the rules, puts in huge amounts of research and development, provides good paying jobs to outstanding engineering and support staff. It stands by the product, provides regular free updates, maintains an active user forum and provides very high direct customer technical support. That costs a lot of money to establish and maintain.

Then, the Chinese government sponsored (and owned) pirates come along, try to reverse engineer it, throw a shoddily made, low or non-existent quality controlled "clone" on the market that can't be upgraded, has no support, and may not work, or stops working any moment with no advance warning.

And the profit goes to maintain the piracy and the dictatorship. You can forget about any warranty claim or support.

All to save a very few bucks. Why not just break into Ross Tech in the middle if the night, steal a thousand of them, and pedal them out of the trunk of your car for $27 each? At least they would have been subjected to quality control. Oh, yeah, you would likely get caught and go to jail. We can't extradite crooks from China, though.

I don't need more than three VAGCOM VINs. If I did, I'm either a commercial user or pretty wealthy.

[RSKYBET]

Don’t be so hard on them when they are just trying to make a living :)

They are born into a dictator ship (yes I know that some says its not but it is:)) and they know that complaining is not an option. If they do they end up in jail or ever worse.
Sent from my iPhone

No. At this point, f!ck China, and especially f!ck their government for fostering an environment of dishonesty and theft. After what the world has gone through the last several months, I’m making a conscious effort to not buy any more crap they make, and I wish a lot more people would do the same.


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[context.eax]

So hostile are we :)

Lets give them the benefit of the doubt.
I ordered two of these cables to see if they work. One is using the Atmega162 and the other is using the STM32F405.
Will update when I get them. (or if I get them :))


Sent from my iPhone

[Kadab]

So hostile are we :)

Lets give them the benefit of the doubt.
I ordered two of these cables to see if they work. One is using the Atmega162 and the other is using the STM32F405.
Will update when I get them. (or if I get them :))


Sent from my iPhone

Benefit of what doubt? They're stealing! And you're supporting them!
I don't think you'll get much support for that here....

[context.eax]

Benefit of what doubt? They're stealing! And you're supporting them!
I don't think you'll get much support for that here....

Guilty as charged.. But hey, aren't we all “thieves“. I mean who hasn’t downloaded an mp3 without paying. I sure have ;)


Sent from my iPhone

[context.eax]

Some update om this thread.

I have received both cables I ordered and I have used them both for some time now. Or at least used the v2 cable a bit to test it out.

The first cable I got was the one based on the Atmega162 chip. This required a loader (a new exe file to start) which was marked as malicious at virus total. This cable was marked as a v2 cable but was in fact a hex-can cable (the older version)
Cable price was $29
Here are some pics of the cable.







So as you can see this is just a hex-can compatible cable.
I already have a genuine hex-can cable so this was of no interest to me.
The loader for this cable is also marked and will most likely be removed by your av.




I opened up my genuine hex-can to have a look and I guess the reason for using the Atmega162 is that it is used by Ross-Tech in their hex-can cable




I would not recommend buying this type of cable that is based on the Atmega162 if you are in search for a v2 cable. I would assume that every fake clones based on this chip is not a v2 cable.
Also because of the loader which is marked as malicious you would probably need to only run this is a virtual machine.
I will probably give this cable away to someone that is ok with it been a older version.


So the next cable I got is based on the Stm32F405 chip which I think is more or less the same as used in the genuine v2 cable. I do believe I found a picture of a genuine v2 showing it is using the F4 chip.
Cable price was $49
Here is some pics of this fake v2 cable










The strange thing about this cable is that it did not require a loader or a mod of the original vcds exe file.
In the installation manual it said that you should disconnect internet when using but mine worked just fine with internet intake.
I have tested this cable for a month now and it works just fine. It is much faster logging with a higher sample rate compared to my genuine hex-can cable and all access to the car seems to be faster.

My curiosity for this cable and how it worked become to big so I removed the stm32f405 chip from it and inserted it into my reader. Unfortunately the chip was locked with RDP level 2 so no access to the debug interface was possible.
Fortunately this is no match for the ChipWhisperer so removing rdp2 was no big deal. (In fact I was a bit surprised on how easy it was)

Here is my setup when attacking the chip
(A bit messy but it works)


And here is the result :)


https://youtu.be/4JFo23tYOq0


Now I have debug access and can dump ram but rdp1 is still active.
But when talking to the chips bootloader I can send the read mem cmd (0x11, 0xee) and the glitch the rdp1 check. This works ok but from time to time I hit a chip erase (testing on a similar chip) which makes this method a bit unstable. My guess is that since it used the internal rc oscillator and calculates the baud rate on the fly then this is the reason for hitting the erase.
I will move over to use CAN since CAN require using the HSE clock which will make this more stable.
Also since I will provide the clock (be the masters of the universe) I can move over to clock glitching instead of the more unstable vcc glitch.

Anyway. Hop you found this interesting (or at least some of you that don’t hate the Chinese that much :)) and of course I would recommend anyone to buy the genuine version of it.
But if you are on a low budget and just need something that works then this could be it.

Also I don’t think that this v2 cable will work on any updated version of vcds that require a cable firmware update.
You will probably only be able to use the 20.4.1 version that came with the cable.
(Yes I checked and this is the unmodified 20.4.1 from Ross-Tech site)


Sent from my iPhone

[MSq5]

Guilty as charged.. But hey, aren't we all “thieves“. I mean who hasn’t downloaded an mp3 without paying. I sure have ;)


Sent from my iPhone

Stealing music hurts the performers. Stealing VCDS not only hurts Ross Tech, it enables and emboldens intellectual property thieves and puts money in the hands of the Chinese government.

No, I don't steal music, either. That's a poor justification for supporting the Chinese communist government. Intellectual curiosity aside, no, we are not all thieves. I claim no moral superiority, but man, think about the consequences.

[Skunkwerx]

Some update om this thread.

I have received both cables I ordered and I have used them both for some time now. Or at least used the v2 cable a bit to test it out.

Appreciate the follow up to your original post and the information you’re choosing to share for the benefit of the community. I’m not going to comment or take a stance on the morality of this specific product path and what people should or shouldn’t be doing (to each is own) however I do appreciate the information sharing of your experience for those that choose to follow or don’t.

[RudyH]

I had the original VCDS for my B5 S4, and liked it. Then with my B8 S4, I went with the Chinese knock off. Worked fine, just don't update your software beyond what is on the CD / USB they provide you.

For my R, I went with this : https://obdeleven.com/en/
grabbed the pro license and you are all set! I haven't really touched on anything I couldn't do with the OBDEleven that I could do with the VCDS. I have a 6MT, the only thing MAYBE is when you do the DSG flush?

[myrder]

very interesting results, i got an official VCDS cable and coming from BMWs bavtech I was really surprised how bad the interface on VCDS is. I'm not for buying rip-off products but at $200 for a cable and software from 1998 I was disappointed.

[Creteil]

very interesting results, i got an official VCDS cable and coming from BMWs bavtech I was really surprised how bad the interface on VCDS is. I'm not for buying rip-off products but at $200 for a cable and software from 1998 I was disappointed.

I following completely your conclusions, I use VCDS since many years now, looks like the software part was developed by the summer intern...

[Creteil]

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[MSq5]

I following completely your conclusions, I use VCDS since many years now, looks like the software part was developed by the summer intern...

The interface could use improvement, but this is extremely deep, powerful diagnostic and coding software. It is updated several times a year, as recently as a week ago or so. For registered users, their customer support is very good. They have a great user forum and if your issue is not covered, they will have you fill out a service ticket, they will research it and usually find a solution.

I was getting an ASB code and steering angle calibration error. They found the recoding sequence for me to use to fix this. I thought I'd need a steering rack or module and an exoensive trip to the dealer. Simply recoding the module for the steering angle module was all that I needed. Saved me a ton of money.

Once you get the hang of the interface, its actually pretty easy to use. Its built around VW/Audi VAGCOM nomenclature, so some of the interface is the "fault" of VAG.

[harisriss]

And no customer support. Getting technical help from Ross Tech for service access codes to solve diagnostic issues is a huge part of the benefit of owning VCDS.

I had a steering angle issue. The scan showed the electric steering calibration needed to be done. I would do it per regular on-line suggestions, but it would fall out of calibration in a few days. Ross Tech provided information on how to recode the module. That provided a permanent solution. This came from direct email information supplier by Ross Tech employee exchanges with me.

All this and frequent updates for onlyna one time charge of $199.

Even if your knock off works, you will not get that support or updates.

And, does the Chinese intellectual property theft represented by this device bother you? It would me.

Hello,
I am facing the same issue on my audi, and i can not find how to solve that even i have already try a lot of solution that i found on the internet like : reset the sensor, change the steering wheel sensor, recalibrate it, try to change the abs block… I have no more solution to try, can tell me what did they say to you ?
Thanks for the help !

[NapalmEnema]

It's not being hard on Chicom poor that is the concern. Its the blatant theft of intellectual property that purchasing this stuff condones and supports.

A company works hard, plays by the rules, puts in huge amounts of research and development, provides good paying jobs to outstanding engineering and support staff. It stands by the product, provides regular free updates, maintains an active user forum and provides very high direct customer technical support. That costs a lot of money to establish and maintain.

Then, the Chinese government sponsored (and owned) pirates come along, try to reverse engineer it, throw a shoddily made, low or non-existent quality controlled "clone" on the market that can't be upgraded, has no support, and may not work, or stops working any moment with no advance warning.

And the profit goes to maintain the piracy and the dictatorship. You can forget about any warranty claim or support.

All to save a very few bucks. Why not just break into Ross Tech in the middle if the night, steal a thousand of them, and pedal them out of the trunk of your car for $27 each? At least they would have been subjected to quality control. Oh, yeah, you would likely get caught and go to jail. We can't extradite crooks from China, though.

I don't need more than three VAGCOM VINs. If I did, I'm either a commercial user or pretty wealthy.

Nail on the head.

- - - Updated - - -

So hostile are we :)

Lets give them the benefit of the doubt.
I ordered two of these cables to see if they work. One is using the Atmega162 and the other is using the STM32F405.
Will update when I get them. (or if I get them :))


Sent from my iPhone

You're part of 'the' problem.