181stLeader's 2003 C5 allroad Daily Driver Project

[181stleader]

Decided to make a build journal for the 2003 allroad I just bought so I can keep track of what I have done to it and when.
Picked up the car for $2000 with quite a few mods already(SRM K24 RS6 Turbos, SRM Side mount ICs, 034 Motorsports 85mm Maf housing, XSPower inlets & BiPipes, EvoMS Billet Diverter Valves, walbro 400 fuel pump, hotchkis swaybars F&R, Stop tech BBK and Volk LE-37 wheels. This car was as a steal!) And the best part is is is a 6 speed manual.







The bad things were the car was super slow, it has 200,000 miles on it, and it was throwing misfire codes, and the rear suspension would sag after it sat overnight(typical allroad airbag problems). One other thing I didn't like was the nasty brown/tan interior

Current mod list:

Engine:
-034 Motorsports TBB
-OEM BW RS4 K04 turbos
-SRM Side Mount intercoolers
-SRM Inlets
-EvoMS Billet Diverter Valves
-EV14 850cc injectors
-Walbro 450 fuel pump & XS Power drop in adapter
-Billy Boat Catback Exhaust
-XS Power Catless Down Pipes
-XS Power Charge Pipes
-034 Motorsport 85mm MAF housing
-K&N Drop in Filter
-Bosch 3 bar MAP sensor & Adapter

Interior:
-Black interior swap(Prefacelift, so no more soft touch crap)
-Custom Guage Cluster Faces
-Color MFD Cluster Display
-B5 S4 3 Spoke Sport Steering wheel
-B8 S4 Alcantera/Leather Front Seats
-Pioneer double din
-Brushed aluminum wrapped wood trim(Avery 812-X)

Brakes:
-Porsche Cayanne 18z Calipers
-Brembo Drilled Rotors 350x32mm (Brembo part number: 09A95821)
-Stop Tech Stainless steel brake lines

Drivetrain:
-Ringer Racing Stage 4+ Clutch kit
-Aasco steel single mass light weight flywheel.
-Metal Clutch Slave upgrade

Suspension:
-A6 Bilstein Coilovers
-Hotchkis swaybars F&R

Wheels & Tires:
-VMR 702 19x9.5+22
-Michelin Pilot Sport 4S in 255-35-19

[V1nny]

Do you know when timing belt was done? If it is due for TB, I would also seriously consider going stage 3, with K04 turbo's and beefier clutch, since you already have nice foundation with other performance work done.

[181stleader]

The brown/tan interior really wasnt doing it for me so I wanted to swap it, best way is to get a full car. I happened to find a 2000 A6 sedan with a black interior, 2.7T and a 6 speed manual with 117,000 miles for $1000! score! Wouldn't have all the interior bits I need but most of them for sure.

[181stleader]

Do you know when timing belt was done? If it is due for TB, I would also seriously consider going stage 3, with K04 turbo's and beefier clutch, since you already have nice foundation with other performance work done.

Oh for sure, I have been working on it already. Just trying to update the journal here.

[181stleader]

First thing I did was gut the A6 and swap all the black interior part that would fit over to the allroad. And I also picked up a clean 3 spoke B5 S4 steering wheel for it.




I also sold the Volks right away as I didnt like them on this car. I ended up clearing $1400 for them after Paypal fees and shipping.

[181stleader]

Did a compression check on both the A6 and allroad the A6 had a bit better compression number so I''l be using the drive train out of the A6 since its lower mileage and better compression numbers.
Off i went ripping the engine and trans out of both cars. This let me see what other mods were on the allroad and find the mystery of why it was so slow.

[181stleader]

Once the motor was out of the allroad I found out its got Silly Rabbit Sidemount intercoolers, Silly Rabbit RS6 k24 turbos with inlets, EV14 injectors, XS power downpipes, billy boat catback, XS power charge pipes, Aasco Steel lightweight flywheel, RS4 clutch kit. This car is getting to be a better deal every second!

However it turns out the drivers side turbo wouldn't spin and there was a pint of oil in the inlet piping.

I pulled off the turbo and as soon as I turned it over prizes dumped out the hotside of the turbo


For a good 20 seconds I was baffled as what it could be from, then it dawned on me it has to be parts of the header, so off it came.


Hopefully this isnt super common on this engine...

I took the housings off the CHRA to see the damage, some how the turbine was unharmed! the CHRA still had a ton of resistance to turn(bearing is shot)

[V1nny]

proper fueling and tune on RS6 turbos will destroy RS4 clutch in less than 10K miles, unless you drive like old babushka. IMHO for daily driving anything larger than regular K04 is overkill. That is based on my experience owning and driving both.

[181stleader]

proper fueling and tune on RS6 turbos will destroy RS4 clutch in less than 10K miles, unless you drive like old babushka. IMHO for daily driving anything larger than regular K04 is overkill. That is based on my experience owning and driving both.

I'm thinking this is an RS4 clutch kit, as it is a LUK branding and is a SAC type. I wont be using it for my new setup.


The flywheel is out for machining and I will be using it with a Ringer Racing Stage 4 clutch kit as recommended by my tuner.

[181stleader]

I decided against going with a Chinese made turbo setup because of how much work it i to change them out on these cars. I ordered a set of OEM Borg Warner RS4 K04s from FCP Euro parts. Cant beat their lifetime warranty on all parts they sell including these turbos.




Unfortunately they made a mistake and shipped the left hand RS4 turbo and a k03 from a 2004 A4/passat instead of the right hand turbo. So I had to send it back for the correct one. Still waiting for it to arrive.

I'll be doing a 91 octane and e85 tune which should be close to maxing out the stock rods from what I have bee told.

[181stleader]

While the motor was out I decided to change out all the annoying things that cause issues with these cars. Got full timing belt kit, valve cover gaskets, cam chain tensioner gaskets and half moons. I also got a set of RKX Tech chain tensioner pads since I was gonna be in there.

I was a bit disappointed with the cleanliness of the better compression ABP motor, kinda filthy inside for 117k miles(i had a stack of maintenance paper work for it too mostly dealer maintained, so not sure why its so dirty, maybe really long OCI)


I pulled the chain tensioner pads and they have some wear:


Only problem was the new pads wont click into the tensioner!

I measured them and they are slightly smaller, so that was a no go. I wish Audi would these separate from the whole unit, I'd much prefer OEM parts for something like this. I ended up reinstalling the stock ones as they were still flexible and had minimal wear, .4mm RKX Tech wasn't too helpful when I contacted them, they just said they have never seen that before. Their tensioner compression tool works great though.

[181stleader]

I love the OEM 9 spoke style Audi wheels, I found a set of RS6 style reps made in Italy(branded as Technocast) for $500 shipped. Specs are 19x8.5 +35 I'm planning on running a 1" spacer with them to make it have a nice flush look.


I didn't like the chrome look so I had them painted silver.

[181stleader]

Now to were i'm at currently is I got the gaskets and seals all in and the new timing belt kit fitted and added a bit of color to the engine covers and timing covers. I like the look of wrinkle red, I'll eventually skin the main 3 engine covers on top in carbon to look like the RS4 covers(unless I can find an OEM RS4 set that isn't $$$$$) Valve covers were swapped over from the BEL to the APB engine too since I'll be using the BEL wiring harness with the newer push on coils.



I also swapped over the knock sensors from the BEL to the APB since the plug is different. One of the other things I am going to need to do is extract the ball bearings that Audi pressed in to plug the SAI ports on the APB motor. My BEL from the allroad has SAI and I'd like to keep it since in in CA and they are cracking down on ECU mods now, so I have to have the ability to go back to "stock"

[181stleader]

What are people thoughts on deleting the after run water pump? This one was changed about 30k ago according the the paperwork I got with the A6 so it should be fine for quite a while.

[V1nny]

..

I was a bit disappointed with the cleanliness of the better compression ABP motor, kinda filthy inside for 117k miles..

I experienced same after buying "better compression" used motor from audi4parts. Here is my crazy theory on that: "better compression" is the result of deposits on pistons and possibly on the head, reducing volume and increasing compression. My was absolutely filthy, and chain guide was worse than yours, even more wear. I ended up taking chain tensions from my failed BEL motor.
But congrats on ordering genuine K04. Better for daily driving, and totally correct thinking considering how much labor goes into replacing turbos on 2.7.
What about downpipes or "piggy pipes"?
I have in my part bin two brand new never installed tensioners assemblies. They do not look Chinese, but I do not think they are OEM either. If you like, make any reasonable offer, and use them whole, or just take the nylon part.

[181stleader]

I experienced same after buying "better compression" used motor from audi4parts. Here is my crazy theory on that: "better compression" is the result of deposits on pistons and possibly on the head, reducing volume and increasing compression. My was absolutely filthy, and chain guide was worse than yours, even more wear. I ended up taking chain tensions from my failed BEL motor.
But congrats on ordering genuine K04. Better for daily driving, and totally correct thinking considering how much labor goes into replacing turbos on 2.7.
What about downpipes or "piggy pipes"?
I have in my part bin two brand new never installed tensioners assemblies. They do not look Chinese, but I do not think they are OEM either. If you like, make any reasonable offer, and use them whole, or just take the nylon part.

That is an interesting theory, and could be possible. I dont have a bore scope so I wasnt able to see inside the cyl. The 200k BEL was spotless inside though(I just know that one had a hard life for sure with the k24 turbos, so the lower mileage stock APB seemed like a better choice.

I think it should eventually clean it self out with 3k oil change intervals. I was also thinking of running Shell rotella T6 5w-40 for the first several changes which is a full synthetic diesel engine oil so it has better detergents to help clean, diesels are dirty inside. That oil works great in the high performance turbo Subaru motors which is where I have most of my experience.

There was actually downpipes on the car already. XS Power Catted downpipes. Its nice the the 6 speed manual BEL motors have the same Flange as the APB motors so I can use the stock downpipes off the A6 for smog if I have to.

Regarding the tensioners, I am just gonna run the stock chain guides in there since they were still flexible and the wear wasnt too bad. I appreciate the offer though!

[Calif_Kid]

I also got a set of RKX Tech chain tensioner pads since I was gonna be in there. I pulled the chain tensioner pads and they have some wear.

Only problem was the new pads wont click into the tensioner!

I measured them and they are slightly smaller, so that was a no go. I wish Audi would these separate from the whole unit, I'd much prefer OEM parts for something like this. I ended up reinstalling the stock ones as they were still flexible and had minimal wear, .4mm RKX Tech wasn't too helpful when I contacted them, they just said they have never seen that before. Their tensioner compression tool works great though.

When I replaced my cam chain tensioner shoes (2001 A6 2.7T 6-speed), I ordered them off E-bay at https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Audi-1-8...72.m2749.l2649. My old tensioner shoes (with 108K miles) just had a slight groove, but were pretty brittle and hard to remove, and one snapped while I was removing it. The new cam tensioner shoes were pretty tight, but eventually snapped into place, so my main point is that the new shoes may be a little difficult to install, but hopefully would snap into place. - Jim

[181stleader]

When I replaced my cam chain tensioner shoes (2001 A6 2.7T 6-speed), I ordered them off E-bay at https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Audi-1-8...72.m2749.l2649. My old tensioner shoes (with 108K miles) just had a slight groove, but were pretty brittle and hard to remove, and one snapped while I was removing it. The new cam tensioner shoes were pretty tight, but eventually snapped into place, so my main point is that the new shoes may be a little difficult to install, but hopefully would snap into place. - Jim

Gotcha, I tried everything including using pliers to get them to seat properly but no luck. I reinstalled the stock ones since they fit perfect and were still very flexible. We will see if that bites me in the ass later. I suppose a 2.7t is never destined to stay in an engine bay once and for all anyway, at least so I have heard.

[AudiAR01]

I am doing the samething as you but ass backwards 2003 A6 2.7tt BEL 6spd with Stage 1+ Billyboat Stainless Catback as the driver. Gonna swap K04s as well. That I bought originally for the AR. And 2001 Audi Allroad 2.7tt APB TIP. Both have black leather. But the AR has spotless interior. What all did you swap over from A6 to AR interior wise. I wasnt sure what all would swap over. I wanna swap the doors over bc I like the smooth skin door of the AR over the A6 door with center molding.

2001 Audi Allroad 2.7T Auto (Silver)

2006 Audi A3 2.0T 6spd (Red)

2003 Audi A6 2.7T Stage 1 (Silver)

[181stleader]

I am doing the samething as you but ass backwards 2003 A6 2.7tt BEL 6spd with Stage 1+ Billyboat Stainless Catback as the driver. Gonna swap K04s as well. That I bought originally for the AR. And 2001 Audi Allroad 2.7tt APB TIP. Both have black leather. But the AR has spotless interior. What all did you swap over from A6 to AR interior wise. I wasnt sure what all would swap over. I wanna swap the doors over bc I like the smooth skin door of the AR over the A6 door with center molding.

2001 Audi Allroad 2.7T Auto (Silver)

2006 Audi A3 2.0T 6spd (Red)

2003 Audi A6 2.7T Stage 1 (Silver)

Is the A6 an avant? More stuff swaps over if so. If not all the lower interior parts swap over(belt line and down). As for the doors, the fronts should work, and possibly the rears even if its a sedan if you swap over the window and frame(roof profile is different) if its an avant you are golden.

The carpet is a real BITCH. I didn't want to remove the whole dash bar wiring and HVAC stuff (the carpet has a part in the very front by the fire wall the goes over the transmission tunnel connecting the two footwells together. I made a cut the carpet to so I could slide it out from the side. Then used 3 zipties to "stitch" the seem back up after install. The seem is up on top of the trans tunnel on the drivers side so its not visible.

Also if you are gonna buy new K04s get them from FCP euro, they have a lifetime warranty and they just recently dropped the price to $2,000

[181stleader]

I am doing the samething as you but ass backwards 2003 A6 2.7tt BEL 6spd with Stage 1+ Billyboat Stainless Catback as the driver. Gonna swap K04s as well. That I bought originally for the AR. And 2001 Audi Allroad 2.7tt APB TIP. Both have black leather. But the AR has spotless interior. What all did you swap over from A6 to AR interior wise. I wasnt sure what all would swap over. I wanna swap the doors over bc I like the smooth skin door of the AR over the A6 door with center molding.

2001 Audi Allroad 2.7T Auto (Silver)

2006 Audi A3 2.0T 6spd (Red)

2003 Audi A6 2.7T Stage 1 (Silver)

Oh and does your BB catback rear mufflers sit level? They were crooked on my car, but I haven't tried to play with adjusting them since its off the car now that its all apart.

[181stleader]

Spider hose cracked when I removed it so I rebuilt it with rubber hose.


I used 5/8" rubber power steering hose rather than the heater hose that i have seen on some of the DIYs for the rebuild. The PS return line hose is safe for oil and wont degrade over time like heater hose can. I had to special order it but it was worth the extra wait time to get the proper hose.

[181stleader]

So, one of the other differences in the APB and the BEL motor is the SAI. The APB out of the A6 donor car wasn't equipped with SAI so Audi decided to plug the SAI ports with hardened ball bearings pressed into the port opening. Now a lot of people wouldn't care and just delete the SAI and tune it out. But since i'm in socal I want to still have a functional SAI if I ever need to go back to stock for a State Ref inspection for Smog(CA is starting to be able to tell if an ECU has been flashed). My first thought for removal of the ball bearings was to TIG weld some more material onto them and use a slide hammer and vise grips to extract them. So I took the motor to my Welder friend and gave it a shot. Unfortunately they were jamed in too tight and the extra metal he welded on would break off.

Last ditch effort was to attack them with a pencil grinder with small carbide burr. An hour or or so later I had both ground out.

[181stleader]

Also crafty guys at FCP Euro got me again...

I was originally planning on going with ST coils but they have a 6-7 week lead time due to COVID, and the Bilsteins were in stock.

I need to stay off that site I spend too much money there But then again how can I say no to Bilstein coil overs with a lifetime warranty!

[181stleader]

Made some more progress.
flywheel resurfaced and cleaned for the new clutch kit.


Trans jack and engine crane made it super easy for a one man trans engine mating operation


Annnd in you go!

[181stleader]

Well, first lesson learned on installing the clutch slave... make sure its seated in the fork and not skipping past it. I struggled with the slave to get it back on the trans and I missed the bowl in the fork... Pressed the clutch with my foot(should have tseted by hand first) and the stupid plastic slave exploded.


Properly borked... I did find out however that O'rielly autoparts makes a PnP metal slave for $80 with a lifetime warranty. So perfect time to upgrade.


Swapped the oem rod and boot over and used the Christmas present method I read about on the forums to reinstall it. Made it much easier!

[181stleader]

Installed the Walbro 450 fuel pump and XS power pump adapter in preparation for the e85 tune.

[181stleader]

I have been working with Blake Beedle to get my car tuned. I had to track down some boost leak issues but I think I'm just about ready. I have put almost 3,000 miles on the car since I have go ti back together. I also bought a set of custom guage cluster faces off a Russian company on ebay. They turned out awesome!



I took inspiration from the C5 RS6 cluster and the 2015 R8 V10 clusters

[AudiAR01]

Sry for the long delay I thought I subbed to your thread but it did actually go through. But no my BB is crooked. Like almost every single one of them that has been installed. I'm actually getting ready to pull the tranny in mine. This weekend. To put a new clutch kit in. And lightened flywheel from JHM. And new shift linkage bushings and upgraded metal linkage. Mine is wore out on both ends. And wasnt letting it go into gear right all the time. So while I'm changing the shift linkage and whatnot. Halfway there so I might as well go ahead and pull the transmission and do a clutch kit. Being stage 2 I'm almost 100% it's still the stock dual mass flywheel and stock clutch. So might as well go ahead and do it. Timing belt and water pump kit has been done. Electric fan conversion. Xs power boost pipes, billet 034 DVs. Silicone F pipes, and TB boot. I have xs power 3" downpipes I'm gonna throw on when I go to put it back together. But I've read that 3" on stage 2 doesnt work out to well. So I may swap out for the 3"-2.5" kit for the true 3" ones. It has koni adjustables all the way around. Stainless brake lines. Gonna go ahead and do slave n master cylinders as well. While outit's out. I hate ecs and jhm site. I could go broke with just those two sites. Good luck on your build as well. You got a hell of start. My base start car was pretty good deal as well. Stage 1 tune lowered. New TB/water pump kit. Boost pipes. And a few others. For 1800 bucks.

2001 Audi Allroad 2.7T Auto (Silver)

2006 Audi A3 2.0T 6spd Stage 1 (Red)

2003 Audi A6 2.7T Stage 2 (Silver)

[181stleader]

Still been getting my remote tune dialed in. The 91 octane tune is done and should have the e85 tune wrapped up in a few more revisions. The car is really quick for a 4,000 lb station wagon.

Pulled the trigger on a set of B8 S4 alcantera seats. I had to build custom brackets to mount them. Pretty easy as I'm a metal fabricator by trade and was able to reproduce a set based on some photos of brackets some other people have made in the past.







These are sooo much nicer than the C5 A6 seats I had before and the heaters for the heated seats actaully works in these which was broken in the C5 seats. Also for anybody else doing the seat swap the seat belt buckles on the seats work with the C5 seat belt which is nice.

[181stleader]

After pricing replacemnet rotor rings for the stop tech BBk that came on the kit I decided to get rid of them and do the 18z BBK instead as consumables are much cheaper. Plus I like the throwback to the RS2 with Porsche brakes on a fast Audi wagon.

[181stleader]

My B5 S4 steering wheel was in pretty good shape but I saw a rewrapped one on ebay for $250 that I couldnt pass up. With the S4 seats and the new wheel it really updates the interior.

[181stleader]

I found a guy on instagram @_younggabe who had his C5 allroad dipped in Nogaro blue. The C5 looks so damn good in that color, really makes me want to paint my allroad Nogaro blue. I just dont know if I want to spend that kind of money on a car that is worth nothing. Guess that means I'll just keep it forever ahahaha

[kRussia]

Oh my that is beautiful

[talleyrand]

Love the project good to see another all road being revived. What seller did you get the wheel from 250$ is a steal?

[moyenecorniche]

Updates by chance ???