Improve connected feel?

[S5_Steve]

I know it's a thing with Audi in general. Especially the ones with electromechanical steering. I have to fight a bit with the car to keep it in the middle of the road and overall the car feels a bit disconnected.
What's the cheapest way to make the car feel more connected and improve point-and-steer? 2013 S5.
Would a rear sway bar do the trick, is that not worth my time and should go with an X bar, or is there another option I should consider?

[fastboatster]

Step 1. Put the car for sale.
Step 2. Sell it
Step 3. Buy a different car, maybe an old boxster if you don't have enough money or something else. Can buy a Miata as well.
All jokes aside, somebody else will chime in. But I do believe in a right tool for the job.

[DarrenOman]

You shouldn't have to fight to keep it on the road. First thing is to get an alignment done.
Not sure about getting more road feeling. The B6/7 S4 guys pull the servo fuse for greatly feeling, not sure if you can do the same in the B8/8.5

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[Mike Literous]

Everyone raves about upgrading the rear anti-roll bar to improve the feel.

[Jay@JXB]

The x-brace helps with the wandering. Better suspension bushings as well. Sway bars improve responsiveness to steering inputs.


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[jonesclp]

I also just read something about the dynamic steering and turning it off via VCDS or at least a portion of it. The part that compensated for “slipping”. Where the electronic system adjusts for when the car “thinks”it is slipping. I can’t find the thread but just read it in the last 2 days. Taptalks search function is not great so I will need to try from a computer when I have time. I know I subscribed to the thread so hopefully there is some activity on it again.
Found it

Dynamic Steering vs disabling DSR
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

If you search in the b8 channel for DSR you will find more. Some are older with specific vcds coding to try.

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[Loe]

The "compensation" that Audi's programming did induced wandering on the B8.5's, disabling it improved it significantly and made the steering feel more natural (as natural as an e-steering can be).

[KRp220]

disable DSR. theres a 30+ page thread on it i believe. that should have a significant improvent
an X brace will help, and the CR-15 is worth a shot given how cheap it is

[Marc G]

disable DSR and make sure you have good tires, you should not have to fight with the car at all, the only time I have seen that on my car is when I needed new rubber.

[SteveYem]

I have an unfounded theory that unless front wheel alignment, specifically toe angle, is damn near perfect side to side, as in set to the same angle, the electromechanical steering system is constantly fighting/compensating to keep the car tracking straight. I say this because during my ~5.5 years of ownership, the steering has felt much better immediately following the few alignments that I've had done, one of which was in the middle of winter, i.e. with cold ambient temperature, when the odd steering feel issue seems to be at its worst.

[jimrobbington]

I would second the CR15 front strut brace. Should make a noticeable improvement in turn in for very cheap and super simple install. It's a no brainer.

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[mungie]

I used to be annoyed by the vague steering feedback every time I drove the car. I got a cr-15 ($120) and an x-brace ($400) and haven't been annoyed since.

[slacktide]

I have an unfounded theory that unless front wheel alignment, specifically toe angle, is damn near perfect side to side, as in set to the same angle, the electromechanical steering system is constantly fighting/compensating to keep the car tracking straight. I say this because during my ~5.5 years of ownership, the steering has felt much better immediately following the few alignments that I've had done, one of which was in the middle of winter, i.e. with cold ambient temperature, when the odd steering feel issue seems to be at its worst.

Makes sense. DSR attempts to use steering wheel angle, yaw angle, yaw angle rate change, and differential wheel speed to compensate for differences in traction between the right and left sides of the car. I notice it most strongly when driving with one side of the car on asphalt and one side on concrete. We have a lot of halfassed roads like that around here. Ref. page 67 of SSP 475. https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-475-esc-audi/

[BucDan]

This may be what I needed! Over time, my car felt... more floaty, wandering left and right every now and then. I changed the front upper and lower control arms, no difference. Got an alignment, no difference. Was about to change the tie rods next, but they looked to be in good shape when I did my oil change under the car. I thought maybe it was the struts that needed replacing, which would've been a PITA or expensive.

I'm going to have to read into the DSR, cr-15, and x-brace. You guys don't know how happy I am right now lol. To help me cheat, any recommendations and links for those parts? FCP Euro doesn't seem to carry them.

[JLAllroad]

I have an unfounded theory that unless front wheel alignment, specifically toe angle, is damn near perfect side to side, as in set to the same angle, the electromechanical steering system is constantly fighting/compensating to keep the car tracking straight. I say this because during my ~5.5 years of ownership, the steering has felt much better immediately following the few alignments that I've had done, one of which was in the middle of winter, i.e. with cold ambient temperature, when the odd steering feel issue seems to be at its worst.

I didn’t have issues with wandering and notchyness going off/on center until my first alignment (after installing coils and a CR-15).

The second alignment noticeably changed and lightened the steering feel(regardless of mode) and helped some of the wandering, new tires fixed the rest of the wandering.

Lastly, and I cannot say enough about this, I cleaned and lubed the joint from the steering shaft to the rack with liquid film, this eliminated the off/on center notchyness. This also looks like it will protect the joint from corrosion.


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[S5_Steve]

Lots of great feedback in here Disabling DSR seems like a no brainer. The CR-15 is so cheap and easy to install that i'll give that a go too.

Links for BucDan:
CR-15 - $140 - https://eurozonetuning.com/products/...4-s4-a5-s5-rs5
034 X Brace - $550 - https://store.034motorsport.com/034m...-aluminum.html
034 Rear sway bar - $300 - https://store.034motorsport.com/034m...a5-s5-rs5.html

Or cheaper X brace: https://www.ecodetuning.com/ec0101-0...tabilizer.html

[mungie]

Lots of great feedback in here Disabling DSR seems like a no brainer. The CR-15 is so cheap and easy to install that i'll give that a go too.

Links for BucDan:
CR-15 - $140 - https://eurozonetuning.com/products/...4-s4-a5-s5-rs5
034 X Brace - $550 - https://store.034motorsport.com/034m...-aluminum.html
034 Rear sway bar - $300 - https://store.034motorsport.com/034m...a5-s5-rs5.html

FYI, "alu kreuz" is a $420 alternative to the 034 X-brace that does the same thing.

[BucDan]

Lots of great feedback in here Disabling DSR seems like a no brainer. The CR-15 is so cheap and easy to install that i'll give that a go too.

Links for BucDan:
CR-15 - $140 - https://eurozonetuning.com/products/...4-s4-a5-s5-rs5
034 X Brace - $550 - https://store.034motorsport.com/034m...-aluminum.html
034 Rear sway bar - $300 - https://store.034motorsport.com/034m...a5-s5-rs5.html

Hey, Thank you!

[S5_Steve]

I forgot about Alu Kreuz. I've added the link in my original message.

[fivefan]

Lots of really good info here.

Just wanted to mention that it seems two distinct issues are occasionally being conflated here:

1) the 12 o'clock "notch"iness - this distinct sensation is super-obvious and frustrating if you ever experience it

2) general wandering - annoying, yes, but not sure of its relationship to the notchiness issue

I have experienced the notchiness a few times on my 2015 and for the longest time assumed it was alignment and/or tires. After reading tons of posts I realized in hindsight that it did seem to correlate to particularly cold days...and fwiw, at the time I was probably still running summer tires with compounds that harden at those temps. Most of the time however, my car and steering feel "rock solid". I drive in Dynamic mode 99% of the time. I have not modified any codes (just mentioning this for completeness...2015 should have the so-called "update"). I keep it aligned, swap tires for the season, torque all wheel bolts to spec by hand, and maintain "normal load" tire pressures.

[Cacevedo]

I used to have that notch on my 2016. Couple months ago I blew my steering rack out on a rock in the middle of the road and I ended up having it replaced with a new one. Haven’t noticed it once ever since. Not sure when the update came out but I would imagine the original rack on my 2016 should have received it.


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[LtDangle]

ECS has their variant of the CR15 on sale too

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part...028501ecs01kt/

[BucDan]

ECS has their variant of the CR15 on sale too

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part...028501ecs01kt/

That's really cheap. Such a price difference. I saw this part in another post as well, for rear lower.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part...008050ecs01kt/

Would that do any good? I don't know too much about mods and tuning, just trying to do OEM+.

[S5_Steve]

I finally got around to disabling DSR (Driver Steering Recommendation). Well, it works! Huge difference. I'll probably install the CR-15 soon too just because its so cheap (why not?).
Uploading a video soon

[2013S4]

I have the CR15, Alu brace and bigger rear sway bar. I did deactivate that via vcds as well. After all this, I still felt the wandering.

When it was time for my alignment, I had the dealer make sure that toe was equal from side to side and while being within spec, slightly toward being more toe in. This made a world of difference. The car feels a lot more stable. This is a 4000 pound luxury sedan with a lot of power, not a sports car, and the stability to me is better than getting every little last bit of cornering out of it.

[SteveYem]

For those that have disabled DSR, do you now get an ABS fault code when you scan the car?

[BucDan]

I have the CR15, Alu brace and bigger rear sway bar. I did deactivate that via vcds as well. After all this, I still felt the wandering.

When it was time for my alignment, I had the dealer make sure that toe was equal from side to side and while being within spec, slightly toward being more toe in. This made a world of difference. The car feels a lot more stable. This is a 4000 pound luxury sedan with a lot of power, not a sports car, and the stability to me is better than getting every little last bit of cornering out of it.

I'd argue luxury sports sedan. Only reason why I got it. The disabling of DSR made a world of difference to me. I was always wondering why my old 1989 Toyota Pickup that has worn control arms, lack of alignment, and the first gen of power steering felt like a straight shooter and my newer car did not feel the same way.

For those that have disabled DSR, do you now get an ABS fault code when you scan the car?

Nope. I do get one for the EPS though. Car on, engine not on. But I've always had that and my EPS works without issue.

[LoloHaole]

I'll just chime in that disabling DSR is a huge improvement. Start with that, and use your VCDS tool for other customizations based on threads here.

Next, do the CR-15 and Alu Kreuz. Both together really improve steering feel.

A stiffer rear sway bar is also a great idea. While you're there, go ahead and put on some Moog end links, IMO. (Don't do the front sway bar, IMO. Stiffer rear reduces understeer, but if you do the front you'll put it all back)

Finally, if you're adventurous, put on some Vogtland coilovers.

I did all of the above, and I love the way this car handles now. So much better than it was when I got it in bone stock form.

[coop3422]

1) the 12 o'clock "notch"iness - this distinct sensation is super-obvious and frustrating if you ever experience it

Not sure exactly what you're referring to, but if it's anything like my old s2000 where at 12 o'clock it stayed planted and it took a bit, either way, to start turning, then I like it. God I miss that car....

Picked up my 2015 S4 6MT yesterday, sadly parked it then went out of town lol. From prior research I already had a CR-15 and RSB in mind, was on the fence about the Ala Kreuz as some said it didn't make as much difference as the other 2 items. I did learn about turning off DSR thanks to this thread though . Also pretty sure I need an alignment, it's not bad, but the wheel is just slightly off so gonna have that checked when I'm back in town.

[S5_Steve]

I made this short video about Disabling DSR. Not the best but you get the point

[Scaughtedaug]

I didn’t have issues with wandering and notchyness going off/on center until my first alignment (after installing coils and a CR-15).

The second alignment noticeably changed and lightened the steering feel(regardless of mode) and helped some of the wandering, new tires fixed the rest of the wandering.

Lastly, and I cannot say enough about this, I cleaned and lubed the joint from the steering shaft to the rack with liquid film, this eliminated the off/on center notchyness. This also looks like it will protect the joint from corrosion.

Looks like a great tip to clean and lube that area. What'd you use to clean it and what liquid film did you use? Like Fluid Film?

[WhereDaGold]

Lastly, and I cannot say enough about this, I cleaned and lubed the joint from the steering shaft to the rack with liquid film, this eliminated the off/on center notchyness. This also looks like it will protect the joint from corrosion.

Audizine

When you say you cleaned with liquid film, did you mean Fluid Film? For anyone that isn’t familiar with the product, it’s a penetrating and lubricating oil that works great. Really good for rust protection, I use it as an undercoat spray on all my cars due to my state salting roads in the winter. It requires a re-coat from time to time but it’s worth doing

[JLAllroad]

Looks like a great tip to clean and lube that area. What'd you use to clean it and what liquid film did you use? Like Fluid Film?

Just some brake cleaner....and sorry yes Fluid Film.

Turn the wheel all the way to the right, from behind the drivers side front tire you will see the offender through the wheel well.

Spray a bit, turn a bit.


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