Gosser's Mediocre 2.7 STK Swap

[Gosser]

I was waiting to have enough content to warrant a thread, and I think I might now.

Quick story; two buddies and I all ended up with a 2.7 on stands, with zero end game. One day we are starting at them and each other and all decided to have a build off. There are some categories to win like; first to pull the trigger on turbos, first to zero MILs, most power/dollar invested, cleanest, etc. Only thing on the line is bragging rights really. The other two are doing swaps into B5S4, so they have a clear advantage, except that they are the type to never finish a project! I took the B7 approach, since I've always wanted a wagon, and like the B7 lines more compared to the B5/B6, and my fleet is primarily B6/B7s. Making my parts hoard that much easier to manage with a B6/B7

Here is the recipe:

• 2001 APB motor, stock bottom end/valve train
• BW S257
• Tial MR44 waste gate
• XS Power STK Piping
• 630cc Bosch EV14 Injectors
• Hitachi 85mm MAF
• OEM B7 2.0. to start DMIC to FMIC, not committed yet
• 1.8 or 2.0 coils, valve cover dependent
• 01E from a B6 3.0 with JHM 1-2 collar/syncros and 4 to 1 bias center diff washer mod, with complementary 4.11 rear diff
• Fuel pump, tbd
• TTV SMF 15lbs flywheel with OEM RS4 pressure plate and disc
• Catch can, was trying to avoid this, but cant with the planned VCs

Things to delete:

• After run coolant pump and sensor
• N249 diverter valve controller
• Ignition Control Module(ICM)
• Exhaust Gas Temperature(EGT) sensors

Hoping I can clean/tuck the wiring a bit, but dont know if I have the skill for this.

Other things that will evolve throughout out all this:

• Maintain AC, plan to use 2.0 compressor
• 2.4 BDV timing belt cover
• 2.8 ACK valve covers
• 2.8 AHA/ATQ coolant cross over pipe
• 2.8 AHA/ATQ main pipe from rad to cross over pipe
• 2.8 AHA/ATQ power steering pump and bracket
• power steering hoses tbd, custom?
• 2.8 AHA/ATQ exhaust manifolds
• B6 ABS pump/module
• B6 cluster
• 3.0 fuel return line
• DTM front bumper, side skirts
• DTM rear bumper, needs to be molded
• BC Coils

If I make 500hp at the crank then I'll be happy. I'm keeping stock bottom end, stock valve train and these seems to be the limit for those components. I have a Borg Warner S257 5761 0.82 external waste on the way. I'll be the first to say, I am not very well versed with turbo sizing and the tuning side of things. A local tuning guy/buddy and I deliberated for many hours and settled on this thing based on the amount of jam I loosely described that I was looking for.

So lets rewind a bit, here is the chasis; 2006 3.2 s-line automatic when I picked it up in 2018 with 170,000kms/106,000miles on it:


I saved it from the PO who wanted to cut the springs and stretch some 215s on 10" wheels. Since it developed a chain tensioner issue, which he couldnt get past how to change a spark plug, lead him to sell cheeeeeap. I fixed the tensioner and drove it while picking away at the 2.7 block. I did a bunch of things in the mean time to the chasis: s5 peelers, 2016 s4 front seats and steering wheel, but first had to trailer it home 5 hours:

It lived its first couple months like this:



Drove it for 20,000km like this:

Fast forward to last weekend, I decided the only way to kick my build into gear is to rip out the perfectly running 3.2:

Sold it in record time, 2 days from being pulled:


The Magna seats:

Still prefere B6/B7 Recaros.
The wheel:


I also got the front DTM bumper repaired and shaved the marker and headlight washer, yet to be installed, have the grills, just need to source the CF lip:



Here is the 01E pulled from the yard and the competition, hard to beat $102usd:

Just waiting on the JHM 1-2 rebuild for this thing.
My dad is always looking to pitch in the mitts even at the junk yard! He is awesome:


I've been working on cleaning the engine bay:


I removed the stock sound deadening material from the strut towers and 2nd fire wall, but will keep the stock heat shielding. Been reviewing whats necessary for the ABS retrofit and will hit a yard shortly to grab what I need.

Since we didnt have a crane when we hauled the drive train out, we elected to remove it with the subframe, and you cant just remove a subframe without powder coating it. Which lead me to removing bushing, and now its at the powder coater, and starting thinking about intake and valve cover colors:


And for the 2.7 itself, I removed the heads to inspect, obviously did the timing and water pump, front crank seal, oil cooler seal, cam seals, etc... I wont bore you with the maintenancy stuff, but the STK piping came in finally and started mocking it up and that is where I stand now:


Need to modify the 2.8 cross over pipe since these interfere, but nothing a welder cannot sort out:

I also chopped up the fuel rail of the N75, N80 and N249(delete). Still looking to relocate the N75 and N80 under the manifold, we'll see how that goes :/ its tight:


I may have missed a thing or two, but at least this give me a place to start, organize and track my progress. I hope it wasnt too short in content, mod; delete if not allowed.

[oVeRdOsE]

wow, awesome. can you put much detail as you can? I might using your thread for future use.

waiting for a kenny engine, while people on FB selling trash 2.7 1500$, I'll take a sunny day to unbolt a 300$ engine.

[Kylet21]

Please bore us with the maintenancy stuff. I can appreciate someone who takes the time to do shit right.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[Gosser]

Consider it done; for as much detail as possible.

$1,500 for a bunk 2.7 is nuts. I acquired mine for $800cad, which came with everything, plus 4 spare turbo, ICs/piping for days, harness, ecu, etc. Apparently it only has 160,000km on it, good compression and good history. There are a couple 2.7s at the yards near me. It sucks seeing them with their oil caps, coils/spark plugs removed, hood opened and snowed/rained on for weeks. I'll be heading to the yard this weekend to grab some 2.8 heads for the long term, cant beat $110cad/$80usd for a pair of heads, and one day 2.8s are going to start drying up.

This weekend I will be focusing on swapping the ABS module, lines and connector as well. Stay tuned for updates.

[oVeRdOsE]

curious if you'll be part of eurokracy 2020 in mirabel this september?

[dalmation53]

Damn OP didn't even ask....he straight up posted the results right away...amazing. and yeah i agree please bore us with maintenance stuff lol

[mc_hotmail]

... and one day 2.8s are going to start drying up.

I never knew, having own two C5 2.7 allroads . Sure enough, when I Google "audi 2.8 2.7 block identical", guess who is on top:

audi 2.8 2.7 block identical

That's what I like about audizine!

[mc_hotmail]

I've never owned a 2.8, so I looked it up in ElsaWin. OMG, it has the same non-flat valve cover like the 2.7. That's my biggest complain. Why would anyone design a head/cover like that. You will use the same amount of aluminum with a flat mating surface, like most other engines.

[Gosser]

curious if you'll be part of eurokracy 2020 in mirabel this september?

If I do it will be with my other squeeze:

The parts for this build are taking forever to get in, and most dont ship to Canada, so I send them to New York, but the boarder is closed until July 21 now. So this build might take longer than expected.

Damn OP didn't even ask....he straight up posted the results right away...amazing. and yeah i agree please bore us with maintenance stuff lol

Ha, wait, what results?

I never knew, having own two C5 2.7 allroads . Sure enough, when I Google "audi 2.8 2.7 block identical", guess who is on top:

audi 2.8 2.7 block identical

That's what I like about audizine!

I would be lost, and probably no where nearly as mechanically inclined as i am without Audizine.

I've never owned a 2.8, so I looked it up in ElsaWin. OMG, it has the same non-flat valve cover like the 2.7. That's my biggest complain. Why would anyone design a head/cover like that. You will use the same amount of aluminum with a flat mating surface, like most other engines.

Your non-flat statement is true in North America, but not accurate across the pond. I went junk yard diving, found the 2.8 I wanted heads off of, but only took the valve cover. Forgot my poly drive... anyway, also grabbed some 2.0t conduit that I'll cut up:


However, there are other 2.8 valve covers, real early 2.8 covers, in places like Lithuania, where they did not have the baffle bulge that all 2.7 and 2.8s have over here.

Still waiting for the other side to come in, but they will get real flat once I grind them all down of the ridges. The only problem with this one is the oil filler neck, it clashes with the one coil pack closest to it. I might have a plan for it, need to keep messing around.

The bulge you see on the 2.7s and 2.8s is for the PCV system, and allows some baffling to occur to separate the oil/air before it enters the intake. I ground out the back side of the 2.8 just to see, and its like a mini labyrinth. I'll be installing a catch can, so the lack of baffling on these flat ones does not bother me. I have close to a dozen valve covers on my bench... I need to get to the bottom of exactly what Im doing just to clear some space!

[canadianA4B7]

If your needing parts to cross into Canada let one of your Canadian friends know. We’ve sorted this out and receive stuff from anywhere in the world through a few business/loop holes that’s are not known to all.

[oVeRdOsE]

If I do it will be with my other squeeze:
[

nice, I probably will have few question , every years I'm parked next to the uni boot with my buddies and a cold one.

[Gosser]

If your needing parts to cross into Canada let one of your Canadian friends know. We’ve sorted this out and receive stuff from anywhere in the world through a few business/loop holes that’s are not known to all.

Good to know. I'll PM you later to get your number. The Audi gods must be reading, this landed this morning after 2 months:

I can finally do my video capture and clear out all the valve covers!

nice, I probably will have few question , every years I'm parked next to the uni boot with my buddies and a cold one.

Nice! I'll keep you posted.

[Gosser]

So lets talk valve cover options for the 2.7:

APB covers, most notable is the bolt down style coils, you can add an adapter plate to add 2.0 coils. These came with my motor:

BEL covers, which allows 1.8 coils, or the 2.0 coils(which stick out further):

2.8 AHA ATQ cover, which is a distribution set up so the plug diamater is somewhat smaller, some modifications to the coils are need to fit them in, and they require the coil to be on an angle:

2.8 ACK covers, same issues with the AHA ATQ, except only one coil needs to be angled due to the oil fill neck. Not good for my conduit set I'm planning that needs them all to be perpendicular, I'll sort that out:

Here is the underside of the 2.8 baffle, which is like a air/oil separator, they also introduced a slot on the other side as well to help draw vapours, where the ACK maintains its webbing right across:

Since I am adding a catch can this allows me to use the ACK covers, but the catch can might fill up quicker. We'll see. Time to get the grinder out on the covers, and the subframe is also ready for pick up.

[Gosser]

Been making progress on the ABS and subframe came back from powder coating, just need to slip in the new bushings:

Got some Recaro, then a bird diarrheaed(sp?) all over them

More importantly, the turbo arrived:

[thenofjboy]

Damn birdsssss haha but I like Snails and Sapporo!

[Gosser]

Here are the ABS modules, B6 on the left B7 on the right, both orientated the same way if they were mounted in the car:

You'll notice the lines are all in different locations, same for the electrical connector orientation, and the electrical connector itself are both different. The B6 has the two lines(with stainless steel flex sections) that feed to the master cylinder entering the top of the B6 module, where the B7 is coming from the right side. So you definitely want to grab the B6 master lines as well. The B6 has the two front brake lines in-between the two master on the top, this aligns well with the B7 lines, so no changes need to happen with these two front brake lines. The last two lines on the B6 coming from the side are for the rear lines, where the B7 is coming from the top. This is where people get a little stuck, some have simply bent the B7 lines to fit the B6 on module. What I did was I grabbed the B6 lines that goto the rear. Its not as bad as you think since they are interrupted by a union that is accessed in the front wheel well. Here are the B6 lines, you can see the ends I just chopped off from the junk yard so that I could break them on the bench:

Close up of the two unions from the junk yard, I needed some heat on my B7 lines to break them loose, definitely use 11mm crows foot wrenches if you can, you dont want to strip these. The two unions are specific to each line, so there is zero chances of mixing them up upon reinstallation.

One of the brake lines that feed from that window on the left to under the frame rail to the union:

Pulling them out from the window:

Having the pump removed, and everything around it removed, made it much easier to remove the lines out the from the wheel well. Pulled them out the engine bay.
Reinstalling them creates a bit of a stubborn spaghetti mess at the top, its kind of like a Chinese puzzle, but it all worked out. Got the pump roughed in, and will button that and the wiring up soon.

The ABS module brackets are not interchangeable. And since the B6 bracket has this section for a vacumm pump, which I dont need, I chopped it off, powder coated it and plan to bolt the section from the B7 that holds the rad electrical connectors.

Here is the B6 yaw sensor, looks similar to the B7 sensor, and they are both found under the HVAC bolted to the trans tunnel, but the B6 has a few more wires that need to be run to the ABS module connector.

Im not going to post all the pinouts, since blitz has a solid write up on the wiring. I'll just post pictures once it is installed and my wiring.

Slipped in the new subframe bushings and made a video:

And installed the subframe loosely:


I was also getting busy with removing some more of the auotmaticness from the car:

of course the autobox is still putting up a fight at being removed:

ahhhhh:

Almost a real car now, just need to remove the cable to the steering column:

Dropped in the manual pedal set, still need to wire in the clutch switch, and clean it!! I know its disgusting:


I also grabbed some 2.8 heads, 2.0 coils, a TDI cluster, fuel pump and pedal for 44USD. Sounds cheap, well it is, but I had to haul it all out without a wheel barrel single handed, and all in one shot... 120lbs was not light after 20 rows of cars and then going up hill :S Managed to sell the cats/dps for 103usd, so I would say I did well!


Next up is rebuilding my 01E! But planning to grab another one from a yard first, like I need another.

[Gosser]

Removed the old auto diff and cleaned the new to me/old 4.11 diff with a Spulen mount:


And since I couldnt find out the final drive of the automatic differential anywhere and had to know, I decided to take it apart and count the ring and pinion gears. 31 on the ring and 10 on the pinion, in other words 3.10 FD for the B7 3.2 automatic:

My 3.89(9 pinion) in the housing and the auto 3.10(10 pinion) in my hand:

The auto diff:

and comparing it to my spare JHM 3.89 LSD, its unfortunately not going in my set up:

I'll be keeping to a stock 4.11 but will be putting a 4 to 1 bias center diff though, with the JHM washer mod.

My 01E 1-2 collar rebuild kit, going in this weekend, cant wait to dig into it:


Still need to goto the yard to grab that other 01E, but I'll be taking the morning off this Friday, so I should be able to plug away on a couple things before hand.

[Gosser]

Pulled another 01E from the yard and kept the clutch line intact this time!

It is hard to beat 132usd, and that is without returning a core worth 25.

and started stripping down my other 01E for the 1-2 collar replacement at my brothers place:





Just the right amount of skuzz you want to see:

Took the casings home, pulled the front diff, cups to do the seals, since it is a million times easier to just punch them out that use a seal puller. It also makes it lighter for when handling it during sand blasting. Not going to powder coat it since there are still some bearings in the housings that I'm afraid heat might jeopardize. I'll just paint it:

This one is also a junk yard find 01E as well so, I never knew how it shifted. Just doing the 1-2 shift collar/syncros, and I’ve always wanted to tear into one so this was the perfect opportunity. Everything looks clean, no metal chunks in magnets. Havent had a chance to really inspect the 1-2 collar yet, but I’ll get to that this week.
Project status; a giant cluster!!

[Gosser]

The sand blasting took longer than expected, but really cleaned it up nice:


Blasting material went everywhere inside and in all the pinion, roller needle bearings... I thought it was fubared. I spent a good amount of time with a hose washing it all out until zero grit was felt:

When I do it again, I am going to mask off the bearings my self, and stuff the case with towels to the point where its too dense for material to enter any cavities. Apparently there is no way around it other than removing all the bearings, at which point powder coating could have been an option, but who needs a powder coated gear box?!? I then painted the center section with POR-15 and just VHT silver for the aluminum, after the second time opening the lid, this stuff cures hard:


Continued with the 1-2 refresh:


Center section all back together:

All went well, just waiting on my shims for the 4 to 1 center diff, turned out pretty killer if I may say so, before and after:



Valve covers should be back from powder coating this week, and will get to mocking up some more things on the motor this week as well.

[Older_not_Wiser]

Were you following a DIY or is there a section in Bentley about 6MT dis-assembly/assembly?

Any special tools required?

[Gosser]

Just followed the JHM youtube video that is out there. Impossible to mess up when following it. Only specialty tool is a press i would say. I didnt need to use a bearing splitter like he used, I simply used angle iron. Some good snap ring pliers would go a long way if you are doing it solo, a larger 2/3 jaw puller and then made up something from scrap to pull the rear tail housing off. Overall, I really enjoyed the process and will probably do more of the 01Es I have kicking around.

[Gosser]

Time for a bit of an update. Following the 01E rebuild, I finally got the 4:1 shims for the center diff and installed them:

Made a video about it:

Then noticed that even with the B6 ABS module and B6 rear lines, that now the front B7 lines interfere with the reservoir:

So I grabbed some B6 front lines and installed them and now the reservoir fits perfectly:



Wrapped my STK piping:






While waiting for parts, I decided to do some maintenance things. Replaced the rear springs with OEM RS4 sedan springs, they are much less beefy… we’ll see how they hold up. Did the struts as well and the upper mounts:



Some where along the line some powder coating stuff came back, some is for my B6S4 LSD:
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Test fitting the valve covers and coil pack conduit:

Just need to trim off the 4th connector, still not sure which side to do.

Found a decent looking 2.0 AC compressor from a passat while using a 3.0 bracket and chucked that in, then installed my a stock length accessory belt. Despite deleting the mechanical fan, the tensioner picks up the slack easily:


Found a 3.0 snub mount bracket:


Then went to town on fueling. I never thought about the differences between B6 and B7 pump baskets, and not until I had them side by side did a remember that the B7 are simply a drop in basket, where the B6 twist and locks. My original plan was to use the B6 with an upgraded pump. Instead I’ll keep the B7 basket, and upgrade its pump. I also originally wanted to use the B6 lid, since I was going to use the B6 driver side leveler since it has the integrated return line. But their too are too different. I realized if this was a B6 chassis it would be much easier to use the B6 gear. Duh. Anyways, installed the JHM pump in the B7 basket, installed a new straight through fuel filter, a B6 3.0 return fuel line, and just plugged in the b7 tank return line and was done, much much simpler than I originally planned for.
JHM pump kit:


Needed a slave cylinder, so I ordered one from German Parts, and it came in pretty quickly, but the box was clearly undersized...


This weekend I finally took the engine off the stand, did the rear main seal, installed the TTV and RS4 disc and PP, followed by the gear box and finally installed the motor!




Cant wait to button up the drive train and get it back onto the ground!

I messed up my rear coolant cross over pipe, so I am still waiting for a new one to come in. Should be in soon, then I can finally mock up the turbo! More to come.

[aluthman]

I love all the attention to detail. It’s nice to see a swap that isn’t just cobbled together like most are.

[Gosser]

I love all the attention to detail. It’s nice to see a swap that isn’t just cobbled together like most are.

Thanks! And Im considered the rammy one of the bunch.



Got the project B5 coolant crossover pipe, so this weekend I'll be able to mock up the turbo! Stay tuned.

[oVeRdOsE]

do you know if a 2005 2.7tt would be tricky to fit in a b7, or I should stick to the APB ?

[Gosser]

BEL is nearly the same thing. There are some differences to consider, you'll have SAI, but easy to delete since the motor is out. Difference ECU, Immo(but this is more year dependent than motor dependent), plastic thermostat housing, turbo flanges apparently, intake(also year dependent) etc. I think the block is actually stronger or less, but would need to fact check that. Maybe thats the AZR Im thinking of.

I mounted the trans mounts, torqued all the suspension items, then realized I stripped my master cyliner threads, fml. turned the car around in the garage so that its easier access. About to get the turbo mocked up! maybe tonight.

[Gosser]

Fun fact for B7 3.2 chassis swappers, both driver and passenger subframe/motor mount bracket are completely different. The 3.2 brackets place the motor off kilter by about 15 degrees and back by more than 1" affecting the overall drivetrain placement.

Driverside B7 3.2 mount:

And a proper driverside mount:


The bits in this picture are the same height, shows how much taller one is vs the other:

This height variance is only really on the driver side mount, and the passenger side brackets are closer to the same height, but still sends the motor back.

Paint marks on the desk show the difference of motor mount stud hole positioning:


Installed comparison:


The proper PN fits the following chassis:

Where the 3.2 is unique to itself:


I made this wonderful discovery when I was like; why isnt the transmission sitting down flush on both trans mounts, and seem to far back. I can kind of get a bolt in for the trans mounts, but doesnt feel quite right, why is my heater core line look kind of kinked, why doesnt my stk up pipe fit!??!?! it should at least fit somewhat!? I really didnt want to start sledge hammering the fire wall, since the down pipe looks like it would need 2" of clearance. I thought it was the auto trans mounts I was using, so used some with spacers, and was like, now the gearbox output shaft is pointing toward the driver rear tire, wtf. Took out my motor mounts, measured those, tried it all again thinking the subframe was misaligned(yes I used the alignment tabs everytime) since my motor is actually from an A6, starting thinking a6 block/motor mount brackets were different, started comparing those online to B5S4, test fitted the rad core to see if was all in my head, and sure the snub mount barely engaged the carrier. I was loosing my mind, thinking; this has been done before, why am I struggling so bad, I need a new hobby. Then it came to me, shit the subframe brackets, what are the chances they are different, well they cant be, I've read nearly every swap thread out there, surely someone would have mentioned it before. Sure as shit, dropped in some random B6 brackets and it fits like a glove now!

Sorry for the story, but FFS, I was reallllllly trying not to set the thing on fire. And Im sure it wont be the last time

Another consideration when saying 3.0 and 3.2s are mechanically similar.

Now my down pipe clears the fire wall with no sledge hammer assistance!

I did remove a heat shield previously that cover the power steering rack, but that was before moving the motor forward, I'll probably try putting that back in.

Installed a new master cylinder, didnt strip the lines this time:

Cleaned up the drive shaft CV, free of stones from the junk yard now!


Carrying on.

[q20v]

Thread bump... looking for progress on this build.

[Gosser]

Scrapped the project for a more favorable 957 with a NA VR6 and burnt exhaust valve:


jk, but it has been on hold since that acquisition, it really wanst supposed to consume anytime, but here I am removing the subframe because of two snapped bolts :s Things will resume soon enough, but need more meaningful updates rather than the; repacking drive shaft CV joints or, master cylinder replacements. :p

[05Point5A4]

Bump! Hope all is well goss! Would love to see an update on the build! Going to be doing mine sometime this fall.

[rlokeye]

Bump. Tackling very similar swap atm. Looking forward to updates 👍🏻

[q20v]

Bump! What are the latest dust thickness measurements on this car? Can probably use a tape measure in inches now?

[booneylander]

I’m also curious about updates on this epic project.