For those using metal water pumps....

[whats77inaname]

....specifically the Graf from @FCPEURO.....I put my unit on in 9/19....I noticed a small leak a few weeks ago. Looking around the forums, it seems like I'm not the only one having that issue. It looked like was coming from the same place as it did when the pump failed. I pulled it to check it out....but it looked fine. Gasket looked fine. Everything looked good. Then found it was gathering on the ledge under the manifold, so no, not the same spot. I put it back on and re-torqued it down. The next couple days, I noticed it was still leaking. Instead of sending it back for a replacement, I went ahead and ordered an OEM water pump gasket. Given that it was 100 degrees today, I waited until tonight to pull it and replace the gasket. I removed the old one, and when I opened the package for the new one, I noticed the difference immediately.
gasket.jpg

I could feel the difference in my hands, that the OEM gasket was heftier. So I found a level surface and took a picture. Pretty sure you can determine which is which. Hopefully this'll resolve it...I'll keep y'all posted.

The OEM part number is 06J121119. You have to snip off a little nib that correlates to a slot in the OEM plastic pump. After that, drops right in.

[elscotto80]

Interesting. I recently replaced my second failed pump with the graf unit. The one that failed previous was leaking slightly, I cannot recall the brand. There has been discussion that the pumps leak due to oil leaking from the VC/cam covers onto the seal of the WP weakening it making it leak.

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[whats77inaname]

Interesting. I recently replaced my second failed pump with the graf unit. The one that failed previous was leaking slightly, I cannot recall the brand. There has been discussion that the pumps leak due to oil leaking from the VC/cam covers onto the seal of the WP weakening it making it leak.

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I saw that. My original pump gasket was swollen when the pump came out, and you can see oily residue on the pump itself.



I had my valve cover resealed earlier this year as there was a slight, visible leak coming from the driver's side front corner of the cover. When I pulled the GRAF, no oily residue, either time.

As I was researching this the 2nd time around, I stumbled on someone going through this w/their Graf pump, and the OEM recommendation to torque the bolts to 9lbs. I feel that, given the difference in the amount of material, that 9lb recommendation might not necessarily be doing the trick for the GRAF unit/gasket over time.

[ericA6]

Interesting you bring this up. I’ve been battling a very small coolant leak after switching to the metal GRAF pump. I’ve changed a few o-rings, but not that gasket, and am still having intermittent small leaks. Seems to be worse in cooler weather. I’ll have to order the OEM gasket and see if that resolves my annoying leak.


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[whats77inaname]

Interesting you bring this up. I’ve been battling a very small coolant leak after switching to the metal GRAF pump. I’ve changed a few o-rings, but not that gasket, and am still having intermittent small leaks. Seems to be worse in cooler weather. I’ll have to order the OEM gasket and see if that resolves my annoying leak.


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Yeah, I saw your thread and was going to cross post to this thread, but I figured you'd see it anyway. That's what I have, too. Small leak, like, I couldn't tell where it was coming from until I let the car sit for about a week, and I could see it start pooling along the ledge under the manifold.

[mtroxel]

Now I don't feel so damn inept. I put on a Graf aluminum last summer. Had to keep adding coolant every month or two till I took it off a few months ago. New gasket, (don't remember what I used) and cleaned it up good. I snipped off the little thing too. I still have a much smaller leak. I'd guess I"ll have to add every six months now. I can live with that.

Here's what my gasket surface on the block looked like when I took off the Graf a couple months ago, then after I cleaned it up good. I was tempted to put some silicone on there, but Permatex web site says gasket maker + neoprene = bad idea.

[NitroViper]

Now I don't feel so damn inept. I put on a Graf aluminum last summer. Had to keep adding coolant every month or two till I took it off a few months ago. New gasket, (don't remember what I used) and cleaned it up good. I snipped off the little thing too. I still have a much smaller leak. I'd guess I"ll have to add every six months now. I can live with that.

Here's what my gasket surface on the block looked like when I took off the Graf a couple months ago, then after I cleaned it up good. I was tempted to put some silicone on there, but Permatex web site says gasket maker + neoprene = bad idea.

I put a skim coat of black RTV on everything I dont care what anyone says lol

[whats77inaname]

I put a skim coat of black RTV on everything I dont care what anyone says lol

I don't know if that's really possible in this case. The pump doesn't press into place. You have to slide it from right to left to get it into position due to the belt. You'd end up smearing the RTV, pretty much rendering it ineffective.

Now I don't feel so damn inept. I put on a Graf aluminum last summer. Had to keep adding coolant every month or two till I took it off a few months ago. New gasket, (don't remember what I used) and cleaned it up good. I snipped off the little thing too. I still have a much smaller leak. I'd guess I"ll have to add every six months now. I can live with that.

Here's what my gasket surface on the block looked like when I took off the Graf a couple months ago, then after I cleaned it up good. I was tempted to put some silicone on there, but Permatex web site says gasket maker + neoprene = bad idea.

Wow, that's interesting. My mating surfaces didn't look anything like that, both were clean as a whistle. Your situation definitely lends credence to a failing aerobic valve cover gasket causing the pump to fail.

In my situation, given that it would leak just sitting, plan is to:
a) cover the alternator,
b) spray out all the coolant under the hood, where it leaked (and I spilled *lol*) then
c) leave the car outside with the hood up to evaporate all the water (it'll be over 100 degrees the next couples days). Verify no coolant anywhere.
d) Fill the fluid reservoir to level, start it, let it get to operating temp, turn it off, leave it overnight
e) Repeat "d".
f) let it sit a few days
g) check for a change in the reservoir level and check for leaks.

[mtroxel]

Wow, that's interesting. My mating surfaces didn't look anything like that, both were clean as a whistle. Your situation definitely lends credence to a failing aerobic valve cover gasket causing the pump to fail.

In my situation, given that it would leak just sitting, plan is to:
a) cover the alternator,
b) spray out all the coolant under the hood, where it leaked (and I spilled *lol*) then
c) leave the car outside with the hood up to evaporate all the water (it'll be over 100 degrees the next couples days). Verify no coolant anywhere.
d) Fill the fluid reservoir to level, start it, let it get to operating temp, turn it off, leave it overnight
e) Repeat "d".
f) let it sit a few days
g) check for a change in the reservoir level and check for leaks.

Our problems are pretty different. Your test wouldn't work with mine as it will go weeks with no leak. Then suddenly I'd see it on the bottom of the block, right under the water pump belt....yet that area around the belt was gone dry. From my pics, it appears my leak was on the forward-most water passage. Your gasket pics were interesting to me, especially given the truly shitty job Otto did when he machined my block the day my motor was built.

[CRI]

Switch back to plastic and get the Rien kit.

[whats77inaname]

Switch back to plastic and get the Rien kit.

Have no clue as to what you're referring to. Link?

[elscotto80]

It's an aftermarket pump. Come to think of it this may have been the one that failed on me a few months ago that I replaced. Had a two year warranty, which was nice. I only had to pay for labor for the graf unit.

Have no clue as to what you're referring to. Link?

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[whats77inaname]

Full disclosure: Been studying for my CCNA and a couple other certs, so my time hasn't been that focused on the car. Given that, here's the update: Shortly after posting the original post, I did the install. As I started filling up the reservoir, water started pouring out by the pump. Everything was put back together correctly, so I pulled it apart, reassembled it, same thing. I couldn't find out where it was coming from, but I already knew the pump had to come off, so I pulled the pump again, and that's when I noticed that both o-rings for the plastic elbow join for the pump were torn . I tracked down the part number for the elbow + gaskets, and came across this:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-uro-prem...6h121131c~upr/

Figured I'd pick it up instead of the OEM union. The reasoning is that plastic and aluminum both have different heat expansion rates, so since the pump is aluminum, and the block is aluminum, it made sense to have an aluminum join. Yeah, I know they're probably different alloys, but eff it. Will it even make a difference? Not even sure, when it comes to most parts, I'll take machined aluminum over plastic anyday.

Finally got around to installing it Wednesday, and realized that the OEM pump gasket I JUST PURCHASED I apparently tore on the previous install. Dealer wanted $26.xx for 1. I picked up 2 from fcpeuro for $3.xx each, paid for 2 day shipping (and *still* paid less than what it would cost at the dealer), and they arrived this morning. I didn't want any more surprises, so it was insurance to have a spare on hand. After coating the rubber surfaces with a thin coat of vaseline, I installed everything, then sprayed out the engine compartment to remove any standing coolant. Operating temp check, no leaks. 10 minute test drive and cool down, no leaks. A little harder run about 5 hours ago, no sign of the coolant seepage, and the cardboard is still dry. So, it appears this chapter is closed...finally.

More good news: I can pull a pump in about 40 mins from drain to off the car, w/out pulling the mani. So I guess there's that *lol*. Gotta find the silver linings where you can.

[Theiceman]

The block is steel. Head is aluminum

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[whats77inaname]

The block is steel. Head is aluminum

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Ah, thanks for the info. The oil cooler where the join connects the pump is aluminum, though, no?

[Theiceman]

Well.iron. not steel. My bad

Ah, thanks for the info. The oil cooler where the join connects the pump is aluminum, though, no?

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[Theiceman]

Ah, thanks for the info. The oil cooler where the join connects the pump is aluminum, though, no?

Yeah I think the oil cooler is aluminum..would make sense..

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[RockJGC]

I realize this is an older thread, but has there been any consensus on aluminum water pumps that actually work without leaking? I've read so many different opinions that I'm even more confused about these aftermarket aluminum units.

[Theiceman]

if i were to buy one, it would be in cost alone, i see zero other benefit to it.


my OE factory plastic one has been leak free, just like the one before it.

[RockJGC]

if i were to buy one, it would be in cost alone, i see zero other benefit to it.


my OE factory plastic one has been leak free, just like the one before it.

You might be lucky. I've heard and seen many, many people experiencing cracked waterpump housings with the OEM plastic pieces.

[JLAllroad]

You might be lucky. I've heard and seen many, many people experiencing cracked waterpump housings with the OEM plastic pieces.

Sounds like the installer not the part


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[mtroxel]

You might be lucky. I've heard and seen many, many people experiencing cracked waterpump housings with the OEM plastic pieces.

I would tell you that I've read a few like that...the OEM ones crack or leak. But that's usually after 70-80 K miles. Then you've got people like me who did the aluminum ones and they leaked from day F'n one. I don't hear any OEMs leaking from day F'n one. My aluminum Graf? Leaked from day F'n one.

[kolqa]

Replaced mine at 62k miles. I choose aluminum Metelli 24-1359 running it for around 3 months and 3k miles with no leaks or problems. I'll see how it goes ...

[RockJGC]

Sounds like the installer not the part


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Yeah, doubtful since it they are the originally installed water pumps that came with the engine.

[Theiceman]

I would tell you that I've read a few like that...the OEM ones crack or leak. But that's usually after 70-80 K miles. Then you've got people like me who did the aluminum ones and they leaked from day F'n one. I don't hear any OEMs leaking from day F'n one. My aluminum Graf? Leaked from day F'n one.

lol ,well that pretty well says it all... that was a mic drop moment.

[Theiceman]

Yeah, doubtful since it they are the originally installed water pumps that came with the engine.

there was a recall for it ( or extended warranty i should say ) i know that. but overall i see no advantage to gong to the metal one.

[JLAllroad]

Yeah, doubtful since it they are the originally installed water pumps that came with the engine.

Well my experience (and Audi’s) is these last 80-100K miles before failure, hence why they only extended the warranty to failures up to 80K.

Mine started weeping in the 90k range, but just barely, 2015 Allroad for reference.


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[MongoMcG]

Reminder: for the coolant return pipe (from the heater matrix) is mounted with two bolts, and the bolt that holds the pipe to the water pump is short (M6 X 14mm - T30, part #N10405604). If you use a longer bolt it will crack the housing. The 14 mm length also applies to the bolt that holds the same pipe to the cylinder block according to the ETKA.

[audrobotic]

Well my experience (and Audi’s) is these last 80-100K miles before failure, hence why they only extended the warranty to failures up to 80K.

Mine started weeping in the 90k range, but just barely, 2015 Allroad for reference.

Hmm. The ext warranty for my 2013 is 10yrs/100k miles.

[RockJGC]

Does anyone have the most current revision part number for the OEM plastic water pump?

[Theiceman]

call your dealer and ask .. ask to confirm part number ask for price and availability .. and what lead time they need for ordering.. they always cough up the part number no problem.

never had an issue doing that

[RockJGC]

call your dealer and ask .. ask to confirm part number ask for price and availability .. and what lead time they need for ordering.. they always cough up the part number no problem.

never had an issue doing that

The local dealer around here doesn't like to give part numbers. They are weird like that. Not sure why.....but that's why I asked if anyone happens to know the latest part number.

[k.sigota]

The local dealer around here doesn't like to give part numbers. They are weird like that. Not sure why.....but that's why I asked if anyone happens to know the latest part number.

https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi__/E...H121026DR.html

Just use the Audi parts catalog if the dealership won't help you.

[Theiceman]

The local dealer around here doesn't like to give part numbers. They are weird like that. Not sure why.....but that's why I asked if anyone happens to know the latest part number.

that's weird,,,, and likely illegal actually. but no one is going to press it.

[JLAllroad]

https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi__/E...H121026DR.html

Just use the Audi parts catalog if the dealership won't help you.

Typically better pricing here for OE

https://www.genuineaudiparts.com/oem...QtZmxleA%3D%3D


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[RockJGC]

https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi__/E...H121026DR.html

Just use the Audi parts catalog if the dealership won't help you.

Thanks, that's a great resource. So I'll always be able to pull up the latest revision of any part on that website? I'm only asking because I've seen soooo many revisions of many different parts.

[k.sigota]

Thanks, that's a great resource. So I'll always be able to pull up the latest revision of any part on that website? I'm only asking because I've seen soooo many revisions of many different parts.

I use a combination of etka and Audi online parts catalog. ECS also lists MFG PNs which can help.

Use JLAllroad's link:

Typically better pricing here for OE

https://www.genuineaudiparts.com/oem...QtZmxleA%3D%3D


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[MongoMcG]

Parts and bolts for water pump replacement, plus torque specs for components

[the-quattro-man]

I'm about to tackle this as car is getting to 90k soon no leaks yet but I figured replace it anyway. Did replacing the gasket with OEM gaskets on these metal water pumps fix the leaking issue?

[mtroxel]

I'm about to tackle this as car is getting to 90k soon no leaks yet but I figured replace it anyway. Did replacing the gasket with OEM gaskets on these metal water pumps fix the leaking issue?

I did that........twice.

Continued to leak........twice.