2010 S4 DSG lurching from stop. Hard 1st to 2nd. Mechatronics failure?

[hungry4cheese]

Hi guys!

We just picked up a 2010 s4 with 157k miles for an unbelievable price!! On the drive home we were experiencing some DSG issues. We knew it wasn't very smooth from the initial test drive, but it seems a little more concerning now that we were able to drive it more.

From a complete stop, the car seems to lurch into first gear with some shakiness - as if someone let the clutch out too fast on a manual transmission. We were also experiencing some hard shifts from 1st to second gear when accelerating lightly. No limp mode, however (yet...). I own a 2011 s4 DSG as well and that one feels completely different dsg wise so this is not normal at all.

So the question is, is this a sign of early mechatronics failure and if so, is a rebuild kit good enough, or should the whole mechatronics unit be replaced with a refurbished one.

We were looking at the rebuild kit from ECS https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble...0b5398009ekt1/ but I question whether just replacing the circuit and some connection seals is enough to fix this issue. What are your experiences?

The other option is a whole rebuilt mechatronics unit, which is very comparable in price. This doesn't list the b8 s4 on the list, but I am fairly certain that we have the DL501 0B5 gen 1 transmission if all of the internet sources are correct (but correct me if I am wrong). This is the link to the unit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/DL501-DSG-0...kAAOSwiuVeq311

What do you guys recommend? Thanks for any help in advance.

Here is a picture of the beauty:
IMG_20200510_130746.jpg

[Iwantyourcar]

I’d recommend you perform a DSG service before dumping money into unknowns. I know my car smoothed out after it was done.


A lot of goodies

[hungry4cheese]

I’d recommend you perform a DSG service before dumping money into unknowns. I know my car smoothed out after it was done.


A lot of goodies

When you say service you mean a drain/flush and filter change? I don't think the 2010 had the external filter.

[Iwantyourcar]

There is an inline filter that is not replaceable. But there is another one that is. Along with fluid and gasket.


https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble...0b5325429ekt2/


A lot of goodies

[hungry4cheese]

Gotcha - do you really think that a fluid flush and filter change will really take care of lurching from a stop? Seems too good to be true.

[Iwantyourcar]

Maybe. Who knows. You don’t have any errors on the dash. All I know is I had some issues with bucking and hard shifts from 1-2 and after the service my hard shifts went away. Occasionally in sub zero temps my car doesn’t like reverse to drive. other than that I’m good. 2010 b8 125k miles.


A lot of goodies

[fastboatster]

Pcb kit is not likely to fix this issue, most likely either the clutches already worn and/or mech solenoids/valves. Not too many people know but these solenoids are available separately from the OE supplier. I just replaced my c1 and c2 solenoids/valves in my transmission's mech unit. Adaptions are not yet finished completely but it's already a lot smoother. You can find these solenoids on Cobra transmission website, that said, with all the gaskets, pcbs it might end up very close to the mech unit you posted.
Another thing to beware of is a gear selector sensor, if it goes bad it might be cheaper to buy another trans if you also have mech and clutch issues. Need to get the gear compartment oil hot to see if it starts acting up.

[oaybar007]

If you have records on the car, check when the last time a DSG flush was performed. If not recently, definitely consider that before spending time/money on larger service. Sometimes deferred maintenance is all there is to it. If we are so lucky :)

[hungry4cheese]

If you have records on the car, check when the last time a DSG flush was performed. If not recently, definitely consider that before spending time/money on larger service. Sometimes deferred maintenance is all there is to it. If we are so lucky :)

Thanks for the response everyone. From looking at the carfax, the only thing that was done was a trans computer reprogram at around 94k miles. I don't see any fluid services indicated. Most likely it wasn't done. So it seems the best thing to do first is a proper fluid change.

Does anyone know if I should be replacing the inline cooling filter? This is most likely not the cartridge style like 2011+. How difficult is this to do?

[hungry4cheese]

Pcb kit is not likely to fix this issue, most likely either the clutches already worn and/or mech solenoids/valves. Not too many people know but these solenoids are available separately from the OE supplier. I just replaced my c1 and c2 solenoids/valves in my transmission's mech unit. Adaptions are not yet finished completely but it's already a lot smoother. You can find these solenoids on Cobra transmission website, that said, with all the gaskets, pcbs it might end up very close to the mech unit you posted.
Another thing to beware of is a gear selector sensor, if it goes bad it might be cheaper to buy another trans if you also have mech and clutch issues. Need to get the gear compartment oil hot to see if it starts acting up.

Running though all of the gears when driving seems smooth and quick. Reverse is a little shaky too, but everything engages. I'm assuming we can rule out worn clutches then? If the solenoids are worn, wouldn't you experience hard shifts in every gear?

Another thought - what's the correct operating temperature for the transmission? I noticed it was running around 217F (~103C) when watching it with torque after hard driving.

[Iwantyourcar]

The in-line is like a 350 dollar part but was suppose to be considered a “lifelong” unit. I am not sure about the difficulty but I haven’t had mine replaced.


A lot of goodies

[hungry4cheese]

The in-line is like a 350 dollar part but was suppose to be considered a “lifelong” unit. I am not sure about the difficulty but I haven’t had mine replaced.


A lot of goodies

Man that is an expensive part. Looks like it is part number 8K0317823B. Maybe we'll skip this one too if it's meant to be lifetime, but then again nothing really is lifetime.

[hungry4cheese]

Here's my current experience. If on a slight uphill, the dsg is having trouble staying engaged: https://youtu.be/x9phX385wxg

[hungry4cheese]

I'm being told by an audi master tech that it is definitely the clutch packs failing. Has anyone had experience where theirs failed? What did it feel like? And did you end up replacing the clutches?

[slykens]

My ‘10 had some of those same issues.

Do the DSG fluid change and then do the adaptations in vagcom.

I don’t notice any of the issues in my DSG anymore. I won’t say it drives like new but I don’t think about it any more.

[1DecentS4]

My '16 had the same issue with 27K miles on it. Replacing the mechatronics didn't fix it.

Audi could never figure it out so they just replaced the transmission. I realize that's not much help, sorry.

[harrisonk8]

Sounds like a mech unit going bad. I just had mine replaced before warranty was up. It was very jerky from stops and between shifts. I didn't even know it was bad, thought it was characteristic of the tranny. But the Audi tech said it was bad. Drives a lot better now. No more jerkiness.

[Sleipnir]

DSG transmissions are witchcraft.

I've heard of multiple stories where even Audi dealers refused to work on them if they were outside of the warranty period, because they're such a pain in the dick.

Your issue could be related to anything from fluid, to a bad mech unit, to worn clutch packs.

FWIW, I had the same thing happen with my dsg when I bought the car a couple of years ago. A dsg service and adaptation resolved the issue (well, 90% anyway).

2 years later and its starting to act up again. Gonna take her in for another dsg service soon which will hopefully smooth things out. That and finally replace the control arms up front!

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[forings]

DSG transmissions are witchcraft.

Straight sorcery.

[Sukks2bu]

Get the DSG service done, and don’t replace the inline filter.
Start there.
Note: I’ve had experience where my dsg service was performed and the car drove worse than it did before the service. So I turned around and had them make sure the fluid level was correct.
Of course they won’t tell you they fucked up, but my car drives awesome now, and I wont do another Till it act up again if ever.

Remember, the dsg fluid was supposed to be for life as well. Only after so Many mech failures did Audi make the dsg a regular service item.

[grovlet]

In my case - it was a Mechtronics Issue..... Ultimate replacement of Mech Board resolved my issues.

As mentioned it's definitely a little trial and error but as noted changing the fluid does help...

Again in my case where I saw similar behavior as OP - I found no definitive proof the fluid was ever changed - so I had it done at 60K (used car to me with 50K). Worked great for 10K - was planning to change fluid again at recommended 75K point - but at ~70K got the failure warning - and had to have dealer replace the Board - been fine since (100K currently) - and do have plans to change fluid with my big next service....

[RaudiUte]

I am in the middle of DSG hell. My 2011 has been at my independent mechanic for close to three weeks.

My transmission was serviced at 45,000 and 85,000. The car currently has 110k. I started feeling shuddering at low speeds, checked for error codes and found nothing. Then it suddenly started slipping horribly at mild acceleration. I had the mechanic perform a diagnostic, check the fluid for shavings, level etc. Fluids looked good, at proper levels, no metallic shavings.He determined that he mechatronic was bad.

I approved repair as well as a few other wear and tear fixes, (hoses, front contol arm bushings) spending a total of 6100.00 dollars. The car would not accept programming for the trans. My shop is Audi certified and he pays for all the Audi Tehnical access and software. Well this morning I got the call I was dreading. After three days of working with Audi technical support it was determined that my clutch paks are bad. The Audi techs tried to tell my mechanic that it probably means my car has been tracked. My car is bone stock. It has never been tracked, it has had the trans serviced twice, and I have done oil changes every 5k since my Audi Care expired. So now that I have put 6k in the car I am being told I will need to come up with another 3300 dollars. I would have liked to have had that information before I threw the first 6k at it. Now I'm stuck between rock and a hard place. Have any of you encountered clutchpak issues? I am told they are rare, especially if the car has been a pampered daily driver. Thanks for any input.

[fastboatster]

Of course they wear out, nothing is eternal. Like Audis 2.0t timing chains which were supposed to be lifetime but wore out at 70ish kmiles. Mech repair bill looks horrendous, the new one actually cost about 2g and can be pulled on the jack stands. My wild guess is that it was going bad for a while and didn’t apply enough pressure to the clutch packs so they just RIP’d in a few miles. My guess is based on what I read on the overseas forums where this trans was offered as an option instead of zf trans on a bunch of cars like q5, a4 and a6 with 1.8 to 3.0t engines.
As for myself, I had the friction plates replaced in my trans when I had some Indy guy replace the selector lever position sensor. That, and not replacing clutch solenoid valves was likely a mistake. My even gear clutch plates looked very dark or black I.e likely burnt. Probably needed to replace the steel plates since they are most likely warped. That’s what I’m trying to rectify now either by getting a new to me dual clutch basket or rebuilding mine again, this time also with a new clutch 2 piston

[slykens]

I posted here a few months ago about how the DSG fluid change and adaptations cleaned up how my DSG behaved.

It seems that my trouble is not 100% gone but I have correlated it to the transmission running "hot."

If it is over 85F or so outside and I am forced to sit in traffic for more than a few minutes, the DSG will begin acting up with hard starts if I don't let it drift a second or two and bump stops. Driving it for a few minutes at highway speed will then stop the behavior for a bit.

As the transmission is cooled by the main radiator, any ideas on how to approach helping it stay cool? The car does not have any issues staying cool. I'm wondering if there's a pinched or clogged line running from the tranny forward but wouldn't that have been a problem well before?

I'm thinking about visiting the car wash and spraying out the radiator with the high pressure hose as a start since I've never really done that in 125k. Any other ideas besides just replacing the radiator?

[pcoc308]

2010 S4 B8. Getting the TPMS Error on my dash. Currently at 113k miles. Ran in this same issue when the car had 65k. Reached out to Audi corporate and unfortunately they couldn’t figure out the issue. Seems to me it’s a mechtronic/transmission issue for sure. They decided to just replace the whole trans. This week all of a sudden it doesn’t go in reverse and check engine/TPMS error came on. I’ve reached out to Audi corporate since they know it is a known issue. I will post my journey and see what they say. Based on research seems those types of trans are only good till 60k. Any information is appreciated.

[fastboatster]

2010 S4 B8. Getting the TPMS Error on my dash. Currently at 113k miles. Ran in this same issue when the car had 65k. Reached out to Audi corporate and unfortunately they couldn’t figure out the issue. Seems to me it’s a mechtronic/transmission issue for sure. They decided to just replace the whole trans. This week all of a sudden it doesn’t go in reverse and check engine/TPMS error came on. I’ve reached out to Audi corporate since they know it is a known issue. I will post my journey and see what they say. Based on research seems those types of trans are only good till 60k. Any information is appreciated.

yes, please do post how it turns out and what it was, don't be like OP who asked a bunch of questions asking what this was and then just disappeared without telling if he was able to resolve this and how.

[pcoc308]

I will make sure to pass along no worries!

[01northernS4]

I can't get the right transmission temp from torque as it mirrors the coolant temp on my car. Have you ever noticed your transmission and coolant temps are exactly the same on torque? When I compare vag com the readings are off. Anyone else notice this? If so any fix or work around on torque to get correct transmission temp?

Thanks!

[01northernS4]

Running though all of the gears when driving seems smooth and quick. Reverse is a little shaky too, but everything engages. I'm assuming we can rule out worn clutches then? If the solenoids are worn, wouldn't you experience hard shifts in every gear?

Another thought - what's the correct operating temperature for the transmission? I noticed it was running around 217F (~103C) when watching it with torque after hard driving.

I can't get the right transmission temp from torque as it mirrors the coolant temp on my car. Have you ever noticed your transmission and coolant temps are exactly the same on torque? When I compare vag com the readings are off. Anyone else notice this? If so any fix or work around on torque to get correct transmission temp?

Thanks!

[dubgli]

I can't get the right transmission temp from torque as it mirrors the coolant temp on my car. Have you ever noticed your transmission and coolant temps are exactly the same on torque? When I compare vag com the readings are off. Anyone else notice this? If so any fix or work around on torque to get correct transmission temp?

Thanks!

No fix or "how to", but I've seen the same thing. Scared me, I had to plug in another logging tool (vcm) and confirmed transmission temps were fine at 150F, not 200F+.

- dubgli

[Iwantyourcar]

Mine seems to act up in extreme hot or cold temps. She’s a very temperamental one.

[01northernS4]

No fix or "how to", but I've seen the same thing. Scared me, I had to plug in another logging tool (vcm) and confirmed transmission temps were fine at 150F, not 200F+.

- dubgli

Strange order of there is a custom pid or workaround... Why would it read from the same sensor? Or is it reading from the coolant that cools off the transmission? Something is not right...

[hungry4cheese]

yes, please do post how it turns out and what it was, don't be like OP who asked a bunch of questions asking what this was and then just disappeared without telling if he was able to resolve this and how.

Hi everyone I'm sorry that I have been MIA for so long - I have not forgotten about you guys, just don't have updates on the DSG :(. We are still in DSG hell, but other hells too. The main coolant pipe burst before we could get to the DSG service at all and currently are in the process of replacing all of the cooling components. The main assembly was basically completely destroyed. Plastic just falling off and apart. Surprising it didn't go sooner. Once we have the engine back together I will go ahead and do a DSG flush. I think we will replace the inline filter while we are at it in case it is a pressure issue. Then we will reset the adaptations. If this doesn't fix the issue then we'll go from there. Again sorry for being MIA and everyone has been posting really good stuff here. It is unfortunate that basically it could come down to anything at this point. It seems that everyone has similar issues and it could come down to any combinations of clutch packs, solenoids, mech circuit board, or just bad fluid/need for service. I have yet to read codes, but I am hoping that may give another clue. I promise I will report back, it just has been extremely busy - pics attached!

Cheers!

[fastboatster]

Hi everyone I'm sorry that I have been MIA for so long - I have not forgotten about you guys, just don't have updates on the DSG :(. We are still in DSG hell, but other hells too. The main coolant pipe burst before we could get to the DSG service at all and currently are in the process of replacing all of the cooling components. The main assembly was basically completely destroyed. Plastic just falling off and apart. Surprising it didn't go sooner. Once we have the engine back together I will go ahead and do a DSG flush. I think we will replace the inline filter while we are at it in case it is a pressure issue. Then we will reset the adaptations. If this doesn't fix the issue then we'll go from there. Again sorry for being MIA and everyone has been posting really good stuff here. It is unfortunate that basically it could come down to anything at this point. It seems that everyone has similar issues and it could come down to any combinations of clutch packs, solenoids, mech circuit board, or just bad fluid/need for service. I have yet to read codes, but I am hoping that may give another clue. I promise I will report back, it just has been extremely busy - pics attached!

Cheers!

good luck! hope you leave the dsg and other hells soon.

[Drifter2090]

Hey, any update on your DSG issues? Ever fix them?