Oil Filter comparisons

[AGV]

Hi Everyone,

Not sure if there has been a post about this in the past; a quick search did not reveal to much about it.

There are about a dozen or so name brand oil filters available for our vehicles...

Most of my online stores that I buy from here in Canada only carry the Hengst oil filters.
Personally, I am a fan of the MANN and MAHLE filters.
Having had German vehicles in the past that called for either of them, I am familiar with both companies.
Yesterday I finally got my beloved MANN and MAHLE filters.
Seeing that I still had a Hengst filter kicking around I thought I would share the difference.
One would think that the supplier that makes it for MANN also makes it for MAHLE.
Inside, outside both look identical; right down to the package for the seals.
Hengst on the other hand, does not have the plastic reinforcement on the inside of the filter.

I’m not saying one manufacturer is better over the other one...

[Envy187]

Thanks for this, AGV. It's a great insight into the products themselves, while still being short-&-sweet at the same time.

[Waffles_s4]

Thanks for this, AGV. It's a great insight into the products themselves, while still being short-&-sweet at the same time.

x2.

I can smell already some problems with that rubber piece on top of the Hengst filter... My 2 cents: completely unnecessary.

The heat around the oil filter (SC and engine) and temp of the oil itself makes me really wonder why the hell would they put that rubber crap which looks flimsy, and can detach into pieces and make it potentially inside the engine?

And those little round tabs make me feel they are about to snap off any minute :D

[rrated]

To be fair, Audi makes the whole housing out of plastic and some of the cooling pipes under the sc out of plastic too..

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[AGV]

Thanks for this, AGV. It's a great insight into the products themselves, while still being short-&-sweet at the same time.

Thanks Envy187! Glad you found it interesting...

[Waffles_s4]

To be fair, Audi makes the whole housing out of plastic and some of the cooling pipes under the sc out of plastic too..

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Sure thing, but the oil filter housing is light years more solid than that flimsy thin rubber on the oil filter itself.

Look at that round tabs where it says "ENERGETIC", its about to give up in life and pop out and the thing is not even used yet :D

[TC_S4]

I am a big fan of original Audi/VW equipment. Since the original Audi oil filter is made by MANN, it’s even written Audi/VW and MANN on the lifter, so no reason of using other filters.

[tourbillonnaire]

Sure thing, but the oil filter housing is light years more solid than that flimsy thin rubber on the oil filter itself.

Look at that round tabs where it says "ENERGETIC", its about to give up in life and pop out and the thing is not even used yet :D

Those are pretty strong opinions coming from someone who clearly didn't handle any of these components.

The ''flimsy round tabs'' on the hengst unit are clearly mold release mark from the plastic injection process. Considering the fact that: the oil filter housing itself isn't subject to any recommended replacement interval from VW/Audi, is also made of plastic and is designed to withstand repetitive heat cycle for the life of the car/engine. Why would a disposable filter with a similar petroleum resistant plastic-composite endcap be bothersome?

FYI, Hengst is an OEM supplier for many light passenger vehicles and heavy duty equipment manufacturer. Just like Mann and Mahle. Furthermore, for any type of filtration application, service interval is more critical than the component itself.

[Envy187]

Let me just say how - no matter how this thread ends up - I'm just glad that every single person that has contributed (so far) is Canadian.

Waffles is from Montreal even though his location states "Earth", so it's pretty darn cool that we were all a part of history made this day on Audizine.

[Muckman83]

Just stick with Mahle
People get too wrapped up in filter brands.


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[TC_S4]

In Canada, many local store sale the Hengst filter for 10-12$ cdn, where the MANN is like 25$. I just buy them from RockAuto, 12$, Mahle is 14$. I know Hengst, Malhe make OEM filter but MANN is the OE filter for our car. Specially, if you change these two O-Rings, you want the OE for perfect fittings. Why pay more, when you can get the exact same filter as Audi/VW original equipment.

[hilmar2k]

Let me just say how - no matter how this thread ends up - I'm just glad that every single person that has contributed (so far) is Canadian.

Waffles is from Montreal even though his location states "Earth", so it's pretty darn cool that we were all a part of history made this day on Audizine.

Came to say that Mahle and Mann are both great.

Additional benefit of ending the all-Canadian run is just a bonus.

[Waffles_s4]

Those are pretty strong opinions coming from someone who clearly didn't handle any of these components.

The ''flimsy round tabs'' on the hengst unit are clearly mold release mark from the plastic injection process. Considering the fact that: the oil filter housing itself isn't subject to any recommended replacement interval from VW/Audi, is also made of plastic and is designed to withstand repetitive heat cycle for the life of the car/engine. Why would a disposable filter with a similar petroleum resistant plastic-composite endcap be bothersome?

FYI, Hengst is an OEM supplier for many light passenger vehicles and heavy duty equipment manufacturer. Just like Mann and Mahle. Furthermore, for any type of filtration application, service interval is more critical than the component itself.

Because bad designs are not limited to oem manufacturing.

Audi itself is not immune:
Plastic guides inside the engine
Plastic hoses under the supercharger
Older waterpump were made of plastic prepalars (now aluminum)

Why include something that can fail, and induce more risks of rubber parts making it inside the crankcase?

The two other filters did not have any rubber, and did not even need to.

Ask yourself these questions, and I would be curious to have actual valid answers, it would make you a bit more reasonable with your argument

[Envy187]

Came to say that Mahle and Mann are both great.

Additional benefit of ending the all-Canadian run is just a bonus.

+1.

Also - congratulations on the new achievement, hilmar2k! American imperialism and self-righteousness have both been updated in all dictionaries to include a picture of you next to both of their definitions - because you're the physical embodiment of each, respectively. LOL.

[rrated]

Came to say that Mahle and Mann are both great.

Additional benefit of ending the all-Canadian run is just a bonus.

LOL touché.

I have a Hengst on my shelf right now for when my car goes back together. My parts guy had it in stock.

I agree with most about buying the best filter when given the option. I also do like to purchase stuff from rockauto but only when I'm not in a hurry to get it.

With regards to the housing, they are not immune from failure. People make aluminum housings that are supposedly an upgrade from the factory part.

OE spec is not always the ultimate benchmark either, sometimes the folks in Ingolstadt make mistakes and have to revise parts like 100 times before they're reliable.

I'm not so picky about filters for the most part because it's a piece of folded paper that's trying to collect particulate from the oil. Mine's not going to be in there for very long and certainly not for as long as Audi says it can, I'm going to be running good oil, and I'm going to toss it out in the end. If it were a reusable filter like the stainless or k&n I have for my bikes, I might be inclined to care slightly more about how it looks.

I'm sure the majority of the difference in these filters comes from the fact that the Hengst, Mahle and Mann factories have different assembly processes. I doubt they'd be in business for long if they made parts that didn't do the job adequately.

A quick search of the internet will show that in some applications the filters are identical between brands. Also there's a YouTube video somewhere of a guy disassembling some spin ons for his old Audi made by various manufacturers and evaluating them on his own made-up criteria and even then, the Mann, Mahle, and Hengst are all very close.

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[tourbillonnaire]

Because bad designs are not limited to oem manufacturing.

Audi itself is not immune:
Plastic guides inside the engine
Plastic hoses under the supercharger
Older waterpump were made of plastic prepalars (now aluminum)

Why include something that can fail, and induce more risks of rubber parts making it inside the crankcase?

The two other filters did not have any rubber, and did not even need to.

Ask yourself these questions, and I would be curious to have actual valid answers, it would make you a bit more reasonable with your argument

On what basis exactly did you determine that a plastic endcap is a bad design decision for an oil filter?

Plastic (or even rubber which isn't nearly the same material, but you seem to be using that word repeatedly) isn't an all encompassing word. There are vast differences in chemistry between plastics. ABS, polypropylene, poly carbonate, PETG, Nylon and Delrin are all automotive grade materials that also present a vast difference between their chemical, thermal and mechanical resistance. For what I'm concerned, that kind of feature (plastic endcap) is built into the filter assembly to consolidate pleat spacing and improve torsional rigidity. Hengst do it on the endcap, Mahle and mann assemble the filtering element on a hollow plastic cylinder for exactly the same outcome. However, It doesn't seem to phase you in the slightest that the Mann and Mahle uses plastic on the inside of of the filtering element, where filtration already occurred and where there is no more barrier in case of brittleness of the material. How so?

I'm not affiliated in any way shape or form by any of the manufacturer mentioned above, but I'm strongly against misinformation nevertheless.

Like I mentioned in my earlier post. From experience, for most filtering application in the automotive market, the component itself (given that it is the right part for the application) doesn't have much perceptible impact on engine reliability and efficiency, a strict service interval does however.

[Waffles_s4]

On what basis exactly did you determine that a plastic endcap is a bad design decision for an oil filter?

Plastic (or even rubber which isn't nearly the same material, but you seem to be using that word repeatedly) isn't an all encompassing word. There are vast differences in chemistry between plastics. ABS, polypropylene, poly carbonate, PETG, Nylon and Delrin are all automotive grade materials that also present a vast difference between their chemical, thermal and mechanical resistance. For what I'm concerned, that kind of feature (plastic endcap) is built into the filter assembly to consolidate pleat spacing and improve torsional rigidity. Hengst do it on the endcap, Mahle and mann assemble the filtering element on a hollow plastic cylinder for exactly the same outcome. However, It doesn't seem to phase you in the slightest that the Mann and Mahle uses plastic on the inside of of the filtering element, where filtration already occurred and where there is no more barrier in case of brittleness of the material. How so?

I'm not affiliated in any way shape or form by any of the manufacturer mentioned above, but I'm strongly against misinformation nevertheless.

Like I mentioned in my earlier post. From experience, for most filtering application in the automotive market, the component itself (given that it is the right part for the application) doesn't have much perceptible impact on engine reliability and efficiency, a strict service interval does however.

You are debating that my opinion is wrong, fine, I have no issues with that. I will stick to my opinion, you stick to yours.

That hollow plastic cylinder you mentioned never ever failed on all the B8 S4s ever sold on the market, we had 0 complaints that someone had that failing and causing issues.

The day you try that Hengst filter for 5-10 oil changes, under different temps ranges, and you come back with proof that this rubber/plastic or whatever it is they put on top is of no issues at all, then I will consider your facts.

But you still did not answer my question: why, as a buyer, would I consider that Hengst filter with that rubber/plastic top, knowing that
1) its not needed at all
2) it looks flimsy and can crack or get cut into small pieces, which could make it inside the engine? If it does, who is paying for any damages? Surely not that filter company.

[rrated]

You are debating that my opinion is wrong, fine, I have no issues with that. I will stick to my opinion, you stick to yours.

That hollow plastic cylinder you mentioned never ever failed on all the B8 S4s ever sold on the market, we had 0 complaints that someone had that failing and causing issues.

The day you try that Hengst filter for 5-10 oil changes, under different temps ranges, and you come back with proof that this rubber they put on top is of no issues at all, then I will consider your facts.

But you still did not answer my question: why, as a buyer, would I consider that Hengst filter with that rubber top, knowing that
1) its not needed at all
2) it looks flimsy and can crack or get cut into small pieces, which could make it inside the engine? If it does, who is paying for any damages? Surely not that filter company.

I'm pretty sure that if it failed and that failure caused engine damage you could easily prove that and the company would definitely be the one paying for it...

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[Waffles_s4]

I'm pretty sure that if it failed and that failure caused engine damage you could easily prove that and the company would definitely be the one paying for it...

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Just the engine breakdown to know the cause of failure will cost you 4-5K. And even then, good luck proving without any doubt to that filter company that their shitty rubber or plastic is actually what caused the failure, them admitting it, and them covering the breakdown + the repair cost.

[rrated]

I should mention that I'm a licensed auto tech so it probably wouldn't cost me that much or be that hard but agree to disagree.

I doubt it'll ever be an issue either.

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[Waffles_s4]

I should mention that I'm a licensed auto tech so it probably wouldn't cost me that much or be that hard but agree to disagree.

I doubt it'll ever be an issue either.

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You might be right, though not everyone can remove the engine, disassemble it to pieces, and put it back together running perfectly fine. The tolerances are extremely tight, any mistake, any bolt put wrong, any torque difference, any wrong method and the engine is toast.

Anyways, not here to argue with everyone, I personally would not buy something that might potentially introduce more issues in the future, when other filters dont have those potential issues. We already have many issues to deal with on these cars.

If anyone wants to buy and use Hengst, no one will ever stop them!

[TC_S4]

Never used Hengst filter, but I am looking at the pic, that yellow donut seems like cheap glue.

[rrated]

I am super tempted to buy a bunch of filters and pull them apart for science

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[tourbillonnaire]

That hollow plastic cylinder you mentioned never ever failed on all the B8 S4s ever sold on the market, we had 0 complaints that someone had that failing and causing issues.

Same logic goes for the Hengst plastic endcap which is ubiquitous to most of their oil-filter line-up. I haven't been able to find any documented failure on any message board accross multiple platform. Kind of a moot point.

The day you try that Hengst filter for 5-10 oil changes, under different temps ranges, and you come back with proof that this rubber/plastic or whatever it is they put on top is of no issues at all, then I will consider your facts.

The burden of proof doesn't work like that. But then again, internet forums are a lawless lands and you seem to be the sheriff in this town.

But you still did not answer my question: why, as a buyer, would I consider that Hengst filter with that rubber/plastic top, knowing that
1) its not needed at all
2) it looks flimsy and can crack or get cut into small pieces, which could make it inside the engine? If it does, who is paying for any damages? Surely not that filter company.

At that point, is it relevant anymore? I don't think anybody could ever change your mind on this topic. You came with an arbitrary hypothesis on filter integrity and you're dismissive of any alternate viewpoint on the subject.

[Waffles_s4]

Same logic goes for the Hengst plastic endcap which is ubiquitous to most of their oil-filter line-up. I haven't been able to find any documented failure on any message board accross multiple platform. Kind of a moot point.



The burden of proof doesn't work like that. But then again, internet forums are a lawless lands and you seem to be the sheriff in this town.



At that point, is it relevant anymore? I don't think anybody could ever change your mind on this topic. You came with an arbitrary hypothesis on filter integrity and you're dismissive of any alternate viewpoint on the subject.

Sure I would like your feedback on those 2 answers. Am really curious.

If your answer makes sense, why would I disregard it?

[PenttisHSR]

Mann HU7029 is the latest version filter, previously it was HU722.
The difference was the plastic reinforcement insert down the inside of the filter.

HU722.jpgHU7029.jpg

[rrated]

Mann HU7029 is the latest version filter, previously it was HU722.
The difference was the plastic reinforcement insert down the inside of the filter.

HU722.jpgHU7029.jpg

If I recall correctly, those 722s would get stuck on the little spindle and be a real pain to take out.

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[TC_S4]

Mann HU7029 is the latest version filter, previously it was HU722.
The difference was the plastic reinforcement insert down the inside of the filter.

HU722.jpgHU7029.jpg

Always use the HU7022 from the last 8 years and still do (considering Audi dealer was usIng the HU722). Never had any problem what so ever. When the updated version came out, RockAuto was liquidating the old stock. I stocked like 10 of the filters, I am good for a little while😆

[Allan691]

Going to sidetrack this a bit..if alright.. because there are some 'heavy hitters' chatting here and now.. and I've asked before, but got crickets..

Is there a DIY link/thread for an oil filter housing seal (o-ring ?) replacement job..?

TIA guys

[rrated]

Going to sidetrack this a bit..if alright.. because there are some 'heavy hitters' chatting here and now.. and I've asked before, but got crickets..

Is there a DIY link/thread for an oil filter housing seal (o-ring ?) replacement job..?

TIA guys

*crickets chirping*

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[Allan691]

*crickets chirping*

lol

[rrated]

Okay so I wasn't able to find a ton of info. I know this is a somewhat common leak on 3.2fsi motors and they're pretty similar, and for those motors people recommend removing the intake manifold.

However, I looked up the actual instructions for our cars and found that they don't call for removal of the SC or intakes, maybe just some careful maneuvering of the fingers.

The process is (basically) listed as follows:

1- take off the rear plastic engine cover
2- remove the oil filter and vacuum out the oil in the housing
3- take the plenum bulkhead off
4- free up the wires in the area
5- disconnect the harnesses for the fuel injectors that run back there
6- unplug the oil pressure switch harness
7- unbolt the fuel line bracket and secondary air injection valve and move them out of the way
8- unbolt the filter housing

I believe there may be a triple square bolt or two in there.

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[Allan691]

This helps! It seems simple in theory but I cannot seem to get a solid viewing angle... And this is why I was looking for the help, and especially the images.

I had read somewhere the housing itself was three bolts, but it seems as if it is four..
Not really sure where that fuel line bracket and SAI valve is..
Those SAI tubes are brittle and scare me..

Anyways, THANKS a ton. Gonna check this out some more today. SC is already off for carbon cleaning...

[rrated]

No problem.

If you have a mirror and a light, they generally help with these.

Also, what are you using for carbon cleaning? I'm taking my sc off soon and I'm assuming valves are going to be dirty af but haven't decided on a cleaning method yet.



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[Waffles_s4]

No problem.

If you have a mirror and a light, they generally help with these.

Also, what are you using for carbon cleaning? I'm taking my sc off soon and I'm assuming valves are going to be dirty af but haven't decided on a cleaning method yet.



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I did mine in december 2019. if u can get the walnet shells machine, do it, it will save you TONS of time.

I did not have it, so I sprayed that CRC can on the vavles and let it soak for 12-24 hours, vacuumed, then sprayed again while using metal picks, plastic brushes on a drill bit, and removed the carbon buildup one valve at a time. Its very time consuming with this method. You can use rubbing alcohol to test if the valves are 100% closed. Just pour enough and wait to see if they leak down. Rubbing alcohol, even if it makes it to the pistons, wont harm anything. I would strongly advise to run the car for 5 min, then do a full oil change afterwards, specially the oil filter


Before
1.jpg


after:
3.jpg

Also make sure you soak them with alcohol, vaccum, use air pressure, repeat 2-3 times to make sure nothing drops down when u turn the crank. I went even further than that, but thats another story

[Waffles_s4]

Okay so I wasn't able to find a ton of info. I know this is a somewhat common leak on 3.2fsi motors and they're pretty similar, and for those motors people recommend removing the intake manifold.

However, I looked up the actual instructions for our cars and found that they don't call for removal of the SC or intakes, maybe just some careful maneuvering of the fingers.

The process is (basically) listed as follows:

1- take off the rear plastic engine cover
2- remove the oil filter and vacuum out the oil in the housing
3- take the plenum bulkhead off
4- free up the wires in the area
5- disconnect the harnesses for the fuel injectors that run back there
6- unplug the oil pressure switch harness
7- unbolt the fuel line bracket and secondary air injection valve and move them out of the way
8- unbolt the filter housing

I believe there may be a triple square bolt or two in there.

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Thanks for this as well. Couple questions:

Any instructions on how to remove the PCV hose going from under the SC to the top of the valve cover shown in the red arrow below:

oil.jpg


Second question: you are saying the entire oil filter housing itself can be removed without even removing the SC, correct?

Am gonna buy the service manual from erwin. its a must that thing.

[rrated]

Thanks for this as well. Couple questions:

Any instructions on how to remove the PCV hose going from under the SC to the top of the valve cover shown in the red arrow below:

oil.jpg


Second question: you are saying the entire oil filter housing itself can be removed without even removing the SC, correct?

Am gonna buy the service manual from erwin. its a must that thing.

Those PCV hoses can be tricky, I've been able to squeeze them with various types of pliers to get them to unseat but there's usually a lot of playing around with them first, because they get stuck in place. I've also seen people on here and on YouTube videos stick pieces of old cards in them to get them to slide off.

And yes, according to the instructions it is possible to do without taking the SC off.

Service manual is totally worth the money and time to download.

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[Waffles_s4]

Those PCV hoses can be tricky, I've been able to squeeze them with various types of pliers to get them to unseat but there's usually a lot of playing around with them first, because they get stuck in place. I've also seen people on here and on YouTube videos stick pieces of old cards in them to get them to slide off.

And yes, according to the instructions it is possible to do without taking the SC off.

Service manual is totally worth the money and time to download.

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So from the top of the valve cover, around the PCV hose, there is a little tab, do we have to do something to it... or the whole thing is supposed to slide off? I dont wanna break anything as I have a tendency to do that.

[rrated]

So from the top of the valve cover, around the PCV hose, there is a little tab, do we have to do something to it... or the whole thing is supposed to slide off? I dont wanna break anything as I have a tendency to do that.

People use picks and hooks and various tools to unseat the connectors on there.

Just be careful with it, take your time and look closely at it

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[rrated]

I did mine in december 2019. if u can get the walnet shells machine, do it, it will save you TONS of time.

I did not have it, so I sprayed that CRC can on the vavles and let it soak for 12-24 hours, vacuumed, then sprayed again while using metal picks, plastic brushes on a drill bit, and removed the carbon buildup one valve at a time. Its very time consuming with this method. You can use rubbing alcohol to test if the valves are 100% closed. Just pour enough and wait to see if they leak down. Rubbing alcohol, even if it makes it to the pistons, wont harm anything. I would strongly advise to run the car for 5 min, then do a full oil change afterwards, specially the oil filter


Before
1.jpg


after:
3.jpg

Also make sure you soak them with alcohol, vaccum, use air pressure, repeat 2-3 times to make sure nothing drops down when u turn the crank. I went even further than that, but thats another story

Those results look great though

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