Tuning boxes and why you shouldn’t buy one

[EvolutionArmory]

The Racechip thread from the other day was very interesting and got shut down due to hostility but it brought up some good points. I said all these things do is change voltage and fool the ECU into trying to meet those signals and said the same thing can be done with a 99 cent diode. In fact, B5 and B6 1.8T guys have been doing just that for a long time. Google “1.8T diode mod”. I was called a moron for thinking that all these tuning boxes do is the same thing a 99 cent diode does but in a much nicer package. Well, here’s a video from a UK tuner that explains it way better than I can. You don’t have to take my word for it but please take his.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QNu17zA1sRg

Guys, please don’t support these hacks that are just feeding on low level consumers. Do research before you hand over your hard earned money and support tuners that are actually advancing the platform you drive and are delivering a product that actually delivers on their performance claims. And to clarify, we are all low level or low information consumers at one point. That’s not a dig. We don’t know about something until someone explains it or until we research it ourselves.

Please keep hostility out of this thread. This is for informational purposes only. I really care about this community and hate to see people throw away money on inferior and sometimes dangerous products.

Discuss.

[Stazi]

Great post and video


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Traptalk]

Low level really is their ideal market sector.

The “chips” like race chip are definitely intended for those with a stock car who just want to spice it up a bit. These aren’t meant for enthusiasts who plan to make real hardware changes or go to the track or Mexico. Their biggest selling point besides the power gain is that it’s completely reversible in minutes. Who really cares about that tho? If we’ve already put money into a downpipe/testpipe, intercooler, bigger turbo etc

These chips would never be able to fully utilize any performance hardware the way a ecu flash can.

Just know what you are buying BEFORE you spend the money. I know I’ve sunk money into “useless” mods that I either remove or would conflict which future plans so any way to avoid wasting money on the road to turning your car into what you want it to be is ideal

Thankfully with the classifieds here on AZ I’ve been able to recoupe money I spent on stuff I will not use or can not use any longer

[19birel]

The important thing is to know what you're buying and what it's worth. There are a lot of members who have enjoyed the Neuspeed Power Module for example, power delivery isn't as smooth as a flash tune, but those can be had for $300 in the classifieds and resold later. Spending $500 on a Race Chip doesn't necessarily make the most sense.

I have been working with Burger Motorsports on the JB4 for this platform and it seems more advanced than the current offerings. Power delivery feels about as smooth as stock, and my car just made 250whp and 311wtq on a Mustang Dyno with it utilizing no other mods. Could a flash tune be smoother still? Probably, but there are a number of other reasons that the JB4 in particular appealed to me. I won't turn this into a JB4 rave, it has it's pros and cons, but my point is it is a great device, not all piggy backs are the same. The fastest B9s currently run them and a lot of the fastest BMWs run them stacked on top of a flash tune.

Having said that, know what you're buying before you spend the money because what's a great option for one person may not be ideal for another, despite the fact we all drive the same car.

If you would like I'd be willing to elaborate on why I chose to go this route with my car. I did a lot of research on these before joining the JB4 dev program as my initial inclination was to get a flash tune and I didn't want to deviate from that idea without being informed.

Hopefully this thread can clear the air a bit and help people decide what is better for them.

[PedroA4]

There was the benefit of not flagging the ECU as well. Piggy backs don’t trip the TD1 flag maintaining you warranty if you have/had one.
It’s the only reason I had the chipwerkes. Once the warranty ran out it was straight to IE for a tune.
Total night and day difference.

[EvolutionArmory]

Lots of good points raised here but here’s something to consider. If you’re worried about factory warranty, simply don’t tune your car. Especially with a tuning box that is just manipulating 5 volt sensor data. ECU maps need that data to respond correctly to changes. If that data is manipulated, it doesn’t know what’s really going on and may not be able to correct properly. You can actually cause more harm than any good would provide.

This matters especially towards fuel trim info. A lot of these tuning boxes might just trick the ECU to add more fuel pressure but can’t control things like injection time.

You can really lean out your motor instead of adding fuel, which is what adds power. A car running slightly rich will run better than a lean one.

[Mars2]

On a petrol car they don't trick the fuel pressure. that is on a diesel because on diesel more fuel = more power.
On a petrol car they trick the MAP. because on on petrol car more air = more power. petrol car work with a AFR.

I have one of those race chips box that I use to try more boost on my hybrid turbo waiting for my tuner. They only connect to the MAP sensor and you can adjust how much more pressure you want by opening them and turning a potentiometer.
I totaly agree that this is very basic. and it just a potentiometer that if you take time to build will cost you less than 10 dollars to trick the 0-5V signal from the MAP.

[19birel]

Lots of good points raised here but here’s something to consider. If you’re worried about factory warranty, simply don’t tune your car. Especially with a tuning box that is just manipulating 5 volt sensor data. ECU maps need that data to respond correctly to changes. If that data is manipulated, it doesn’t know what’s really going on and may not be able to correct properly. You can actually cause more harm than any good would provide.

This matters especially towards fuel trim info. A lot of these tuning boxes might just trick the ECU to add more fuel pressure but can’t control things like injection time.

You can really lean out your motor instead of adding fuel, which is what adds power. A car running slightly rich will run better than a lean one.

The important thing to consider here is that not all piggy backs read the same amount of data or have as sophisticated programming. Not saying that there is a perfect piggy back, but there is a large gap between some of the offerings available.

Dinan Sport Tuner- only plugs into the MAP sensor.

Neuspeed Power Module Plugs into MAP sensor, Cam Position Sensor, N75 valve.

Burger Motorsports JB4 (Beta) Plugs into MAP sensor, N75 valve, OBDII port

And that doesn't cover the differences in programming between them either. Generally, higher end piggy backs are programmed such that the ECU can still protect the engine should something go wrong. That's obviously not a guarantee that nothing can go wrong, but it certainly makes a difference when choosing between these. While I don't think we should immediately write off all piggy backs, we certainly should not accept all of them as equal.

[Mars2]

If you consider SYVEC as a Piggy back then this one is an amazing Piggy.
It can do more thing than the OEM ECU

https://www.syvecs.com/product/golf-mk5-mk6-tfsi-tsi/

[EvolutionArmory]

There’s a huge difference between a standalone engine management system and a piggy back “tune”.

[EvolutionArmory]

On a petrol car they don't trick the fuel pressure. that is on a diesel because on diesel more fuel = more power.
On a petrol car they trick the MAP. because on on petrol car more air = more power. petrol car work with a AFR.

I have one of those race chips box that I use to try more boost on my hybrid turbo waiting for my tuner. They only connect to the MAP sensor and you can adjust how much more pressure you want by opening them and turning a potentiometer.
I totaly agree that this is very basic. and it just a potentiometer that if you take time to build will cost you less than 10 dollars to trick the 0-5V signal from the MAP.

And yes, on a gas car more air means more power but more air without more fuel means more lean and too lean is dangerous.

[Mars2]

And yes, on a gas car more air means more power but more air without more fuel means more lean and too lean is dangerous.

Our car have a wide band O2 sensor with a very clever ECU and a target AFR.
So any time you put more air it will automatically adjust the fueling to stay on target AFR.
On my car going from 215G/S oem turbo very hot summer to now 278G/S hybrid turbo winter and same tune my AFR stay OK and I'm on E85 where my fueling could become a limiting factor.
other wise just a, down pipe or intake.....wil make you run lean.

Here in France to make any petrol modern car become "kind of flex fuel" the tuner will increase the range of adaptation of LTFT. So that it can add enough to get the 35% more what is needed for E85.
This work automatically from the feedback of O2 sensor.
I agree it's only 50% flex as it's only flex for fueling but not for timing. But here many people want to run E85 just because it's 2.5cheaper not for the performance. Their is no taxe on E85 because it's Greener. 80% taxe on petrol.
40% less CO and 93% less fine particle for GEN1 E85 made from Beetroot and 70% less CO2 from GEN2 E85 made out of Lignite cellulosic ( all the waist when cutting tree, grass, cleaning forest.....).


On a petrol Car you make more air go in = more power because target AFR . efficiency AFR 14;7:1 max power AFR 12.5:1
On diesel the more fuel = the more power. their is no target AFR it can work from 70:1 to 12:1. their is also no throttle valve when You press the accelerator it only increase the amount of fuel injected.
On a diesel when injecting too much fuel you will have EGT climbing sky high ( opposite to petrol engine) so you need to add air to bring it down in control and cancel some of the black smoke.
That is why tuning bow on diesel increase fuel pressure in a way that ECU don't see it.
This is very simplify.

PS: on many modern diesel their is a a kind of Throttle valve but in fact it's an anti shuddering device for when you stop the engine. It's also a safety design in case for exemple your turbo will leak a lot of oil.
Without this your engine could run on the oil coming from the turbo even after you turn off the engine with major damage to it. Many people that don't know diesel think it's a proper throttle valve like on petrol adjusting flow of air.
On my Toyota Hilux 3.0 D4D I remove that to get better flow with my bigger Turbo GT2260vk

[Nano909]

very hot summer

What exactly is considered a "very hot summer" in France?

[Mars2]

around 42°C here in south of France. so 107°F

[EvolutionArmory]

Yes, the cars have the ability to adapt to a certain degree, headroom in the maps, and that is what these tuning box companies are hoping for but to what exact degree can it compensate for? Neither of us can answer that. They just crank up the boost and pray that the car can adapt all the other maps to the false boost readings. The scary part is the ECU is being asked to adjust from false signal readings.

There can literally be 100’s of maps in an ECU. Hopefully all the right ones have enough headroom to compensate for the false signal.

[Mars2]

It can adapt a lot more than people expect and sure much more than some tuner want that you be aware.
their is million of car here driving with no tune on E60 the maximum that oem ECU can adapt ( +25% LTFT)
I don't know anyone who's got any trouble with that. I know so many who are using their car with E60
It's like cranking up the boost by 0,5bar at least or7PSI in term fueling needed.

Those ECU are so smart and VAG ( VW, Audi, Skoda, Seat) car have big headroom on fueling.
So adding a box that increase by max, 0,2 bar is Zero problem for reliability.
Your fueling will still be spot on.

The problem is that you get a shit tune with race chip:
-You just copy the oem boost curve lifting it up by 0,2 bar. most just give 0,15bar
-You keep OEM target AFR curve that is very reach above 5500rpm for safety. so missing some power their for better cooling
-You don't increase timing.

so the gain are much less than a tune.
You use more gas because even when using light throttle you will have those +0,2 bar when some tune will not give extra boost on light throttle. because 3D boost mapping.

[NitroViper]

Love seeing EvolutionArmory getting schooled again lol. Posts a video from a tuner that makes money by manually tuning cars. Of course he is biased. Tuning boxes work weather you want to admit it or not and no they aren't created equal. The guy in the video is talking about the simplest form of tricking a ECU. (jerry rigging) He isnt talking about tuning boxes that actually are calibrated per vehicle and its specific engine. Even half the comments on that video are calling his BS.

I honestly dont know what you are fighting so much over this subject because for alot of people it is exactly what they need if they dont feel like modifying their whole car. They even warranty your engine if its a new vehicle.

Anyways, im not going to argue in this thread, it is a pointless argument.

[subzero05]

Ugh here we go again , let’s bash the boxes again . So burger , racechip , ABT , Dinan , neuspeed , DTE , TMC , VR tuning all must be junk then and anyone who runs one in their car is a complete idiot and should be banished from society because clearly the hundreds of thousands of people around the world who buy these are all inferior people . And of course these are company’s that have been in business as long if not longer than flash tuners . Maybe you should call some of these places , schedule an appointment and see if you can go in and see how they really “tune “ a car , without a DIODE!
I have seen it first hand by many of these aforementioned companies and they are hardly “hacks” as you like to state . For you to state you know exactly what they all do and how they all do it is rediculous, oh and that video ; yeah ok .

[MSq5]

The good, well-designed piggy backs can produce good, safe reliable power gains. They work well with manual transmission cars.

But modern DSG and especially sophisticated ZF8 true automatic transmissions have their own ECUs (TCUs) that tie into and receive input from the engine ECU. When the engine MAP sensor or sensors sends a false under reported boost signal (how they raise boost);this confuses these transmissions and they, especially the ZF8, have erratic abrupt shifting at part throttle, shifting at the wrong times.

Just something to consider. My 3.0T with ZF8 loved the Chipwerke piggy back, but the ZF8 revolted.

[19birel]

Theres a couple good threads floating around regarding some of the more popular piggy back offerings for the platform. I don't recall any horror stories from when I read through them, but they are certainly great resources for those who are interested in or have a piggy back.

Neuspeed Power Module Thread

Dinan Sport Tuner Thread
*Not sure but I think that was the main thread for the Dinan tuner, only a page but some good info still

[Mars2]

Love seeing EvolutionArmory getting schooled again lol. Posts a video from a tuner that makes money by manually tuning cars. Of course he is biased. Tuning boxes work weather you want to admit it or not and no they aren't created equal. The guy in the video is talking about the simplest form of tricking a ECU. (jerry rigging) He isnt talking about tuning boxes that actually are calibrated per vehicle and its specific engine. Even half the comments on that video are calling his BS.

I honestly dont know what you are fighting so much over this subject because for alot of people it is exactly what they need if they dont feel like modifying their whole car. They even warranty your engine if its a new vehicle.

Anyways, im not going to argue in this thread, it is a pointless argument.

Nobody school nobody. We are here to share knowledge.
I have to say that EvolutionAmory schooled me about Wastegare cracking pressure and I thank him a lot for that.
Bvhrdr schooled me about timing pull. With my tuner agreement we used some of his theories to take advantage of E85 and don't bother that I have big timing pull when I need to put some 93 in tank occasionally on a long trip because their is is no E85 available. Again this is an exemple of how much the ECU can adapt. Sure I will have to drive relax a 100km that the ECU adapte/learn before pushing it when switching to 93.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post13201927

As I wanted to make my car Flexfuel but have no Ethanol sensor my tuner use the ability of the ECU to adapt and learn. using O2 sensor feedback to adjust fueling and using knock sensor feedback for pulling timing when not using E85. It's not as good as a flexfuel sensor that switch mapp according to ethanol content but if you take care to let your car learn when switching type of fuel then it does the trick. Sure this can't be done on OEM car as the lambda driver will not wait for the learning. This is a "Pseudo Fle fuel", "Fake flexfuel" using the smart capacity of the ECU.

PS: I agree to him that if any damage happen to my engine it will be only my fault as I ask him go border line.
My LTFT are at Zero with E70 and my timing Map was done for E70. so with +/- 25% Ltft adaptation range the ECU can adapt from E0 to E85, when going lower than E70 the ECU will start pulling timing.
But as Ethanol effect on knock resistance is non linear it is only under E40 that it really start pulling timing.

[EvolutionArmory]

It doesn’t matter that this guy sells a tune. His points are still valid. All you’re getting is a device that manipulates the voltage to a couple sensors and they’re charging you 500 bucks for it.

I’m not suggesting that if you crack that thing open that you’ll just find a couple wires attached to a diode. I’m just saying that they’re charging you 500 bucks for something that does the same thing as a 99 cent diode. It’s just manipulating the voltage reading. A different way to achieve the same result as a 99 cent diode.

And then there’s the fact that they offer you “stages”. All that does is further alter the amount that the ECU is lied to. And their best “stage” still won’t perform as good as a standard reflash at the same price because it can’t.

[EvolutionArmory]

Here’s a pic of what the 1.8T guys have been doing for like 15 years. Wire in a 4.3 diode, 6 for 99 cents but you only need one, bringing the cost of the diode to 16 cents. Then plumb in a manual boost controller to control boost. You can get one between 30-50 bucks.

So for $51 bucks max you can get the same performance as a Racechip GTS

It’s the same principal. A voltage regulator to lie to the ECU about what the MAP sensor voltage is and a way to manipulate the boost pressure. This way uses a mechanical valve where something like Racechip is manipulating the N75 electrically.

Attachment 168027


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[EvolutionArmory]

Nobody school nobody. We are here to share knowledge.
I have to say that EvolutionAmory schooled me about Wastegare cracking pressure and I thank him a lot for that.
Bvhrdr schooled me about timing pull. With my tuner agreement we used some of his theories to take advantage of E85 and don't bother that I have big timing pull when I need to put some 93 in tank occasionally on a long trip because their is is no E85 available. Again this is an exemple of how much the ECU can adapt. Sure I will have to drive relax a 100km that the ECU adapte/learn before pushing it when switching to 93.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post13201927

As I wanted to make my car Flexfuel but have no Ethanol sensor my tuner use the ability of the ECU to adapt and learn. using O2 sensor feedback to adjust fueling and using knock sensor feedback for pulling timing when not using E85. It's not as good as a flexfuel sensor that switch mapp according to ethanol content but if you take care to let your car learn when switching type of fuel then it does the trick. Sure this can't be done on OEM car as the lambda driver will not wait for the learning. This is a "Pseudo Fle fuel", "Fake flexfuel" using the smart capacity of the ECU.

PS: I agree to him that if any damage happen to my engine it will be only my fault as I ask him go border line.
My LTFT are at Zero with E70 and my timing Map was done for E70. so with +/- 25% Ltft adaptation range the ECU can adapt from E0 to E85, when going lower than E70 the ECU will start pulling timing.
But as Ethanol effect on knock resistance is non linear it is only under E40 that it really start pulling timing.

You’re welcome about the wastegate tuning info. I just try to pass on what I know and try to help the community. If you remember how that wastegate tuning lesson went, everyone fought with me there as well, even though I presented logs showing what the changes did and presented other evidence🤣🤣

[19birel]

And their best “stage” still won’t perform as good as a standard reflash at the same price because it can’t.

I haven't seen any figures to support how much power a RaceChip makes, but in general piggy backs certainly have the potential to produce as much power as a reflash up to an extent. There is plenty of data to support this too if you look around.

Here’s a pic of what the 1.8T guys have been doing for like 15 years. Wire in a 4.3 diode, 6 for 99 cents but you only need one, bringing the cost of the diode to 16 cents. Then plumb in a manual boost controller to control boost. You can get one between 30-50 bucks.

So for $51 bucks max you can get the same performance as a Racechip GTS

It’s the same principal. A voltage regulator to lie to the ECU about what the MAP sensor voltage is and a way to manipulate the boost pressure. This way uses a mechanical valve where something like Racechip is manipulating the N75 electrically.

Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

Thanks for sharing that, as a former 1.8T owner I find that pretty neat.

I agree the general principle is the same, but I don't think its a fair assumption to say a race chip does the same exact thing. These days piggybacks have the ability to alter the boost curve, and overall be a bit more precise than a manual boost controller and a diode. I don't think we have enough information to really dive into exactly how it functions and is programmed, especially when there is more than one way for tuners to approach these devices.

As for the price, I'm pretty sure the Race Chip is the most expensive one for the platform, I agree the cost seems rather high. That's probably another discussion though I suppose.

[EvolutionArmory]

The principal is exactly the same. It’s only a voltage regulator inline between the sensor and ECU. That’s it.

Same result, just a different way to achieve that same result. A 16 cent diode or a computer chip can do the same thing. Both ways are equally ghetto. Either way your car is operating and getting data from a misrepresentation of actual data and it’s far less safe than a legit reflash that is actually changing ECU maps.

[bb-tt]

The principal is exactly the same. It’s only a voltage regulator inline between the sensor and ECU. That’s it.

Same result, just a different way to achieve that same result. A 16 cent diode or a computer chip can do the same thing. Both ways are equally ghetto. Either way your car is operating and getting data from a misrepresentation of actual data and it’s far less safe than a legit reflash that is actually changing ECU maps.

Speaking of cheap/ghetto 1.8t mods this one worked like a champ

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ght=spring+Mod

[EvolutionArmory]

Yup, just crank that wastegate down or add some springs. What could go wrong? lol!!!!

[Traptalk]

Here’s a pic of what the 1.8T guys have been doing for like 15 years. Wire in a 4.3 diode, 6 for 99 cents but you only need one, bringing the cost of the diode to 16 cents. Then plumb in a manual boost controller to control boost. You can get one between 30-50 bucks.

So for $51 bucks max you can get the same performance as a Racechip GTS

It’s the same principal. A voltage regulator to lie to the ECU about what the MAP sensor voltage is and a way to manipulate the boost pressure. This way uses a mechanical valve where something like Racechip is manipulating the N75 electrically.

Attachment 168027


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

Been awhile since worked with lower voltage circuits but pretty sure a diode will drop voltage by 0.7 volts no matter what.
I mostly work with high voltage 3 phase AC for automation but we do use some low voltage dc sensors

Seems like using a potentiometer would give much more control

[EvolutionArmory]

Could be. That’s probably why a manual boost controller is used with the diode mod. I’ve never done the diode mod because I always just saved until I could afford to get what I really wanted.

[bb-tt]

Yup, just crank that wastegate down or add some springs. What could go wrong? lol!!!!

Yes and no, there was no adjustment to crank down and there were specific spring weights recommended think it actually brought to about 10lbs but never actually tested myself. Did run this mod (as well as many others ran) for years without a single problem. I agree just cranking down on it or throwing random spring not a good idea but this one has been pretty well sorted.

[subzero05]

I haven't seen any figures to support how much power a RaceChip makes, but in general piggy backs certainly have the potential to produce as much power as a reflash up to an extent. There is plenty of data to support this too if you look around.


Thanks for sharing that, as a former 1.8T owner I find that pretty neat.

I agree the general principle is the same, but I don't think its a fair assumption to say a race chip does the same exact thing. These days piggybacks have the ability to alter the boost curve, and overall be a bit more precise than a manual boost controller and a diode. I don't think we have enough information to really dive into exactly how it functions and is programmed, especially when there is more than one way for tuners to approach these devices.

As for the price, I'm pretty sure the Race Chip is the most expensive one for the platform, I agree the cost seems rather high. That's probably another discussion though I suppose.

Actually if any of you are familiar with DInan for the bmw stuff . They have piggy back boxes for some of the V8 twin turbo bmw’s that sell above 2k. So racechip is hardly to that expense , more along the lines price wise of burger

[19birel]

Actually if any of you are familiar with DInan for the bmw stuff . They have piggy back boxes for some of the V8 twin turbo bmw’s that sell above 2k. So racechip is hardly to that expense , more along the lines price wise of burger

Yeah the Dinan stuff can get expensive for sure, I just meant relative to some of the other options for the B8 it is on the higher side pricing wise. Not unreasonable, but something to note.

That said, Race Chip may currently be the only piggyback you can buy brand new for these cars right at this moment (Neuspeed recently discontinued the power module and Dinan dropped the Sport Tuner after they were acquired by the same entity as APR) so the comparison in price isn't apples to apples I guess

[subzero05]

Yeah the Dinan stuff can get expensive for sure, I just meant relative to some of the other options for the B8 it is on the higher side pricing wise. Not unreasonable, but something to note.

That said, Race Chip may currently be the only piggyback you can buy brand new for these cars right at this moment (Neuspeed recently discontinued the power module and Dinan dropped the Sport Tuner after they were acquired by the same entity as APR) so the comparison in price isn't apples to apples I guess

not sure about neuspeed, but Dinan still sells the sport. pointless to discuss though since its BMW related but they are still selling it. they had a unit for us VW/Audi guys for awhile, im sure the sales on it weren't super high though
https://www.dinancars.com/products/s...tronics-sport/

[EvolutionArmory]

Tuning boxes are great for cars that don’t have the overwhelming tuning support like VAG platforms have. VAG tuning options are a dime a dozen though so why pay similar pricing for an inferior product if you don’t have to?

I think that is probably the biggest reason to not buy a tuning box. There are multiple dealers for multiple vendors in every state and now you have the option to flash from home from many vendors as well through VPN. There’s really no reason to settle for less.

[19birel]

not sure about neuspeed, but Dinan still sells the sport. pointless to discuss though since its BMW related but they are still selling it. they had a unit for us VW/Audi guys for awhile, im sure the sales on it weren't super high though
https://www.dinancars.com/products/s...tronics-sport/

Yeah I meant for the B8 specifically, Dinan no longer sells the Sport Tuner, but yes it's still available for other platforms. The neuspeed is currently only available for the Gen 3 motors. Both pop up[ regularly in the classifieds though at reasonable prices.

Tuning boxes are great for cars that don’t have the overwhelming tuning support like VAG platforms have. VAG tuning options are a dime a dozen though so why pay similar pricing for an inferior product if you don’t have to?

I think that is probably the biggest reason to not buy a tuning box. There are multiple dealers for multiple vendors in every state and now you have the option to flash from home from many vendors as well through VPN. There’s really no reason to settle for less.

The ability to flash the car at home does make getting an ecu remap a lot easier for sure. While it is the ideal option, there are reasons why getting a piggy back instead might be better for someone.

I think that generally one of the biggest advantages to a piggy back is that you can resell it and recoup some of your money. When considering the resale value, the actual cost of a piggy back goes down considerably. This is especially nice if you plan to go K04 eventually but want a performance boost in the mean time.

Personally, I went with the JB4 because with its ability to be stacked, act as a methanol controller, store multiple maps, data log etc. etc. I knew that it would still be nice to have even if I eventually went K04 and got a flash tune.

A flash tune is the ideal tuning solution, but sometimes depending on your plans a piggy back might make a little more sense. There's pros and cons to both, its just a matter of determining which balance suites your use case the best.

[Theiceman]

this all reminds me of many many years ago before tunes and chips. we used to put a resistor across the MAF to make the car think it was always cold, so it would richen the mixture.


that was a long time ago , anyone remember that ?

[old guy]

Oh hell, that's not that old. I remember drilling out jets and swapping emulsion tubes in my Weber DCOE-45 side drafts

And changing the springs in the distributor weights controlling the timing advance.

[Theiceman]

I did the distributor " recurve" not so long ago but never messed with carbs.
The only emulsion tubes in see these days are in the neighborhood lawnmowers that seem to apear at my door

Sent from my SM-G973W using Audizine mobile app

[Mars2]

Yeah I meant for the B8 specifically, Dinan no longer sells the Sport Tuner, but yes it's still available for other platforms. The neuspeed is currently only available for the Gen 3 motors. Both pop up[ regularly in the classifieds though at reasonable prices.


The ability to flash the car at home does make getting an ecu remap a lot easier for sure. While it is the ideal option, there are reasons why getting a piggy back instead might be better for someone.

I think that generally one of the biggest advantages to a piggy back is that you can resell it and recoup some of your money. When considering the resale value, the actual cost of a piggy back goes down considerably. This is especially nice if you plan to go K04 eventually but want a performance boost in the mean time.

Personally, I went with the JB4 because with its ability to be stacked, act as a methanol controller, store multiple maps, data log etc. etc. I knew that it would still be nice to have even if I eventually went K04 and got a flash tune.

A flash tune is the ideal tuning solution, but sometimes depending on your plans a piggy back might make a little more sense. There's pros and cons to both, its just a matter of determining which balance suites your use case the best.

Will JB4 one day sell that for audi B8 or it will stay beta for ever.