Transmission

[The BMW Killa]

Think I just killed the transmission in the car, how much money should I be prepared to dish out to fix this?


- The BMW Killa

[s4majid]

What's the issue? Typically it's either the mechatronic unit or the clutch. The mech can be repaired for less than $700 in parts. That's the repair kit and solenoids. Labor would probably be between 2 and 4 hours. The clutch is closer to $1,000 and you're probably paying like 20 hours labor. The dealer usually won't do either of those jobs. They will replace the mech with a new unit, which is about $2,000 plus labor or replace the transmission which is about $8,000 plus labor.

Where are you in PA?

[The BMW Killa]

What's the issue? Typically it's either the mechatronic unit or the clutch. The mech can be repaired for less than $700 in parts. That's the repair kit and solenoids. Labor would probably be between 2 and 4 hours. The clutch is closer to $1,000 and you're probably paying like 20 hours labor. The dealer usually won't do either of those jobs. They will replace the mech with a new unit, which is about $2,000 plus labor or replace the transmission which is about $8,000 plus labor.

Where are you in PA?

I was backing out of a spot on a slight incline, and the car would go back a tiny bit then stop, and giving the car more throttle the rpms would increase but the car wasn’t moving. Hill was too steep to push so I put it in reverse and gave the car a decent amount of throttle. I got out of the spot and started driving, sitting at a light a few minutes later I realized steam or smoke coming from the engine, as well as a burning smell. Pulled over shut the car off, waited 10 minutes, made sure it was done smoking, and attempted to start the car again. Car started up fine, but upon shifting into reverse the car stalls out. Put the car in drive and started going, ride home was very jerky and it felt like the car couldn’t find the right gear even though I was cruising at 40 mph consistently. I started with a message saying “limited functionality” then ended the drive with “”Reverse gear not available”.




- The BMW Killa

[Cris_OO7]

I had my transmission replaced reverse would start slipping once it was hot and worse on a incline. It was around $13k job around $9k for the transmission rest in labor. Im in NYC so labor might be more expensive. Luckily I bought a extended third party warranty they covered it all with a problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[15 Phantom S6]

What year is your car and what is the mileage?

[F0UR PL4Y]

My 13 S6 is scheduled at local dealership for a new clutch on Friday. They would not give me a quote other than "$3k-10k" without having the car in for diagnostics, but I will update with prices as they're provided to me.

My symptoms are different from yours, my clutch is slipping under load, I'm throwing P0811 (Excessive Slippage Clutch 'A'), and sometimes receive the "Transmission Malfunction - You can continue driving with limited functionality" when it slips. But my transmission shifts fine.

Regardless, this info/pricing is pretty difficult to find on forums at this point still, so hopefully getting the prices out there will be helpful to everyone.

[F0UR PL4Y]

UPDATE: Audi foreman swears up and down that despite having a code for "excessive slippage clutch A" it is absolutely not a clutch issue. He also does not believe it is a mechtronics issue. They want to do an ATF flush - which I told them has already been done when the symptoms first started occurring, with no change in symptoms after the flush. Otherwise he says the transmission is toast - which I find hard to believe considering the transmission shifts perfect.

Also, I was told that replacing a clutch in this car is the "same price as transmission so replacing the clutch is pointless, and you might as well just replace the entire transmission".

Audi loves to sell new cars but clearly hates taking care of vehicles that aren't under new car manufacturer warranty, or that don't have an aftermarket warranty company that they can take for a $5,000-$15,000 ride.

Here are your prices to service a C7 S6 transmission at an Audi Dealership:
ATF Service: $807.51
Mechtronics Replacement: $4,244.89
Transmission Replacement: $15,056.65
Clutch Packs: "Same price as transmission" - Audi Foreman

[gk1]

I don't see how replacing the clutches is also $15000 job. Some have even DIY'd it. Any reputable indy shop should be able to do it for less than $15k.
Even at $10k list price for a new trans, what are they charging 25-30 hours to replace it? Seems way too long.
The clutches, even performance variants are no more than $2k...I doubt anyone would pay $5k in labor to have that replaced.

[F0UR PL4Y]

I don't see how replacing the clutches is also $15000 job. Some have even DIY'd it. Any reputable indy shop should be able to do it for less than $15k.
Even at $10k list price for a new trans, what are they charging 25-30 hours to replace it? Seems way too long.
The clutches, even performance variants are no more than $2k...I doubt anyone would pay $5k in labor to have that replaced.

Completely agree. I pulled the car from Stealership, and scheduled at reputable indy shop tomorrow. I'll update then. Open to any and all feedback in the meantime.

[Cayo71]

Not to hijack the thread but the dealer told me that the ATF on Quattro transmissions are for life.... Now I'm an engineer and I find that hard to believe. My car is approaching 100K miles. Would it be wise to do a flush at this point?

[kbailey2003]

If you have a A6/7, S6/7, you have a DSG which takes DSG fluid. Only the RS7, A8/S8 have a traditional Automatic transmission. Here is the service interval: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iY9...ew?usp=sharing
The automatic transmission (ZF8) found in the A8/S8 do not have a change interval.
The DSG/S Tronic transmission (DL501) is supposed to have the fluid changed at 35,000 miles (55 kilometers), 75,000 miles (115,000 kilometers), and 115,000 miles (175,000 kilometers).
Also only the RS5 and RS7 are supposed to have the ATF and differential oil changed in the rear sport differential changed at the same interval as the DSG service mentioned above.

[s4majid]

Completely agree. I pulled the car from Stealership, and scheduled at reputable indy shop tomorrow. I'll update then. Open to any and all feedback in the meantime.

Start with either the mech unit or the solenoid kit. It looks like the issues are narrowed down to either the solenoids or the clutch. You can get a solenoid kit for ~$250. This is a job I have done myself on jack stands. I could do it in 3 hours easily now. When I find the install guide I'll post it here. The hardest part is lining up the hooks. Following the install guide makes it much easier.

If that doesn't solve your issues, then the clutch should. It's ~$1,000. I would expect about 20 hours labor. Again, I've done this on jack stands so it's not as hard as some would make it out to be.

[s4majid]

Found the install guide. LINK

It says it's for an A5 but it is the same transmission.

Like I said before, the section for Adjusting selector forks is what will save the most time.

[s4majid]

I’m right outside of Pittsburgh. Audi Washington is my primary service center.


- The BMW Killa

I'm in Wheeling. I'd be curious to know what you decide to do. I know that dealer will only replace the tranny. They won't do a clutch.

[Valpo A7]

KBB lists a 2013 S6 dealer price at $21,000 - $23,000 and private party at $17,600 - $21,300.

A transmission replacement at $15,000 just isn't worth it. I recommend to trade it or part it out depending on what the indy shop tells you.

[eurospek]

Subbing for outcome.

[F0UR PL4Y]

Found the install guide. LINK

It says it's for an A5 but it is the same transmission.

Like I said before, the section for Adjusting selector forks is what will save the most time.

I'm far from versed in these DSG transmissions - the solenoid hadn't really occurred to me. Thanks for the info!

The shop I dropped it at is probably the highest caliber/most reputable Euro shop in my area. I think they'll come back with a fair and reasonable diagnosis/quote. I will update for sure.

KBB lists a 2013 S6 dealer price at $21,000 - $23,000 and private party at $17,600 - $21,300.

A transmission replacement at $15,000 just isn't worth it. I recommend to trade it or part it out depending on what the indy shop tells you.

Yeah, there's no way I'd ever spend that many fun coupons on a car worth <$30k. We all know there's an "Audi tax" to be paid on things like this - but within reason.

I love the car as a daily, and I have no issue with replacing the clutch around the $3-4k mark (seen a couple others have it replaced in that range). It may be 6 years old, but it's still a lot of car and I understand repair bills like this are pretty inevitable as mileage climbs.

[OlyS6]

Not to hijack the thread but the dealer told me that the ATF on Quattro transmissions are for life.... Now I'm an engineer and I find that hard to believe. My car is approaching 100K miles. Would it be wise to do a flush at this point?

They consider 'life' to be up until the day the warranty expires, and then it's not their problem. It is listed as a service that is recommended at 35k miles, including replacement of the transmission filters (internal and external).

[F0UR PL4Y]

and then it's not their problem.

100,000%

I've read 35-40k intervals also.

[Cayo71]

They consider 'life' to be up until the day the warranty expires, and then it's not their problem. It is listed as a service that is recommended at 35k miles, including replacement of the transmission filters (internal and external).

Beautiful.... Now should I do it considering that it hasn't been done ever and I'm approaching 100K miles??

[s4majid]

Beautiful.... Now should I do it considering that it hasn't been done ever and I'm approaching 100K miles??

Yes.

[bahula03]

If you have a A6/7, S6/7, you have a DSG which takes DSG fluid. Only the RS7, A8/S8 have a traditional Automatic transmission.

In the interest of having accurate information on the forum, this is incorrect. North American C7/C7.5 A6 and A7s all have the ZF8 automatic.

[acamposac1]

In the interest of having accurate information on the forum, this is incorrect. North American C7/C7.5 A6 and A7s all have the ZF8 automatic.

Except the FWD models

[bahula03]

The record is complete haha

[F0UR PL4Y]

Update:

Car is fixed and operating perfect.
Culprit was clutch packs.
Cost was ~$4k total ($1300 clutch packs, $425 other parts - seals/gaskets/fluid/etc, 17 hours of labor).

The arrogant prick foreman at the local Stealership could not have been more wrong or deceptive:
a) firmly stated there was "absolutely no way it's clutch packs" (despite there being clutch material in the fluid - which they even provided a photo of, and the only code being P0811 Excessive Slippage Clutch A)
b) said the cost to replace clutch packs is the same price as a transmission (then SWIFTLY quoted me for a $15,000+ transmission replacement)

Hopefully this information helps other enthusiasts avoid being COMPLETELY RIPPED OFF BY AUDI DEALERSHIPS.

(Not even a single pad left on the ring in the first photo. Have I mentioned this quote yet?: "Absolutely no way it's clutch packs" - Audi Dealership Foreman )

[gk1]

Update:

Car is fixed and operating perfect.
Culprit was clutch packs.
Cost was ~$4k total ($1300 clutch packs, $425 other parts - seals/gaskets/fluid/etc, 17 hours of labor).

The arrogant prick foreman at the local Stealership could not have been more wrong or deceptive:
a) firmly stated there was "absolutely no way it's clutch packs" (despite there being clutch material in the fluid - which they even provided a photo of, and the only code being P0811 Excessive Slippage Clutch A)
b) said the cost to replace clutch packs is the same price as a transmission (then SWIFTLY quoted me for a $15,000+ transmission replacement)

Hopefully this information helps other enthusiasts avoid being COMPLETELY RIPPED OFF BY AUDI DEALERSHIPS.

(Not even a single pad left on the ring in the first photo. Have I mentioned this quote yet?: "Absolutely no way it's clutch packs" - Audi Dealership Foreman )

Sucks you had to deal with that terrible dealer experience. Glad it is fixed now. Even a regular torque converter based trans has clutches that can be replaced vs. "you must replace the transmission" ...ridiculous.
Did you opt for stock clutches or one of the aftermarket options?

[F0UR PL4Y]

Sucks you had to deal with that terrible dealer experience. Glad it is fixed now. Even a regular torque converter based trans has clutches that can be replaced vs. "you must replace the transmission" ...ridiculous.
Did you opt for stock clutches or one of the aftermarket options?

I agree, it's really unfortunate, and in my opinion incredibly embarrassing for the Audi brand. I consider myself a brand loyalist. I've owned 12 Audi's, and I enjoy the cars, but I'll likely be transitioning to a different European manufacturer after this experience.

Yes, opted for OEM. I plan to go APR Stage 2 in a few weeks, but I've spoken w quite a few people locally (and read here on Audizine) that they've run Stage 2 with OEM clutch packs with 0 issues. I'll only keep this car another year or so as miles are climbing (driven 28k miles in the last year), so I don't want to spend the fun coupons (or take on the inevitable higher risk) of Stage 3 on this car.

[gk1]

I agree, it's really unfortunate, and in my opinion incredibly embarrassing for the Audi brand. I consider myself a brand loyalist. I've owned 12 Audi's, and I enjoy the cars, but I'll likely be transitioning to a different European manufacturer after this experience.

Yes, opted for OEM. I plan to go APR Stage 2 in a few weeks, but I've spoken w quite a few people locally (and read here on Audizine) that they've run Stage 2 with OEM clutch packs with 0 issues. I'll only keep this car another year or so as miles are climbing (driven 28k miles in the last year), so I don't want to spend the fun coupons (or take on the inevitable higher risk) of Stage 3 on this car.

I understand it's not you problem, and likely will fall on deaf ears, but maybe report them to AoA. That level of incompetence is inexcusable and although the person on the phone may be uninterested the Audi corp certainly should be and the only way for them to know is from the customers.

[F0UR PL4Y]

I understand it's not you problem, and likely will fall on deaf ears, but maybe report them to AoA. That level of incompetence is inexcusable and although the person on the phone may be uninterested the Audi corp certainly should be and the only way for them to know is from the customers.

Read my mind good sir! I intend on doing exactly this. I've already contacted the Stealership this morning and asked for a refund for the (mis)diagnoses fee, simply out of principle. Currently waiting for a call back.

Depending on how they decide to handle it, I will certainly be going to AoA with this. I also have no problem contacting the Attorney General and other consumer protection agencies in my state. That may seem like overkill, but personally, deceit and deception are completely unacceptable at any level of business, but especially pathetic and unacceptable for a major "luxury" auto manufacturer. Think how many other people they're ripping off.

[Jake@JHM]

How many miles on your clutches? Glad to see you got it repaired without getting shafted by the dealer.

Dealerships typically don't rebuild stuff, they just replace. Unless the repair is covered under a warranty, I strongly recommend taking your vehicle to a reputable independent (for anyone that reads this).

We do a ton of transmission rebuilds here, as well as DSG work. People can ship us their trans if needed as well.

[F0UR PL4Y]

How many miles on your clutches? Glad to see you got it repaired without getting shafted by the dealer.

Dealerships typically don't rebuild stuff, they just replace. Unless the repair is covered under a warranty, I strongly recommend taking your vehicle to a reputable independent (for anyone that reads this).

We do a ton of transmission rebuilds here, as well as DSG work. People can ship us their trans if needed as well.

Strangely reassuring to read something like this. Appreciate you saying that. It felt like I was taking crazy pills having the conversation with the foreman. If that's how they want to handle their services, that's fine, and I actually understand that from a liability standpoint. But just be transparent about it.

Clutches had just over 101k miles on them.

Definitely one of the highest mileage C7 S6's I've seen to date. I purchased with 75k miles ~1 year ago with fairly extensive maintenance history, almost entirely serviced at a Dealership in California. I drive ~25-30k miles/yr so I generally buy vehicles in the 60-75k mile range knowing I'll just drive the value right out of them anyway.

[gk1]

How many miles on your clutches? Glad to see you got it repaired without getting shafted by the dealer.

Dealerships typically don't rebuild stuff, they just replace. Unless the repair is covered under a warranty, I strongly recommend taking your vehicle to a reputable independent (for anyone that reads this).

We do a ton of transmission rebuilds here, as well as DSG work. People can ship us their trans if needed as well.

Understood, yet when timing chain tensioners, water pumps, piston rings, turbos, PCV's etc. go they never seem to replace the engine.
Thing being... clutch, or clutch packs should definitely be a repairable item at what is supposed to be the most capable and educated place...a dealership. I can understand if it were to cost say $6k due to parts mark up and higher labor rates vs. $4k, but to just give up wholly and say if clutches go the entire trans needs to be replaced at a ludicrous $15k pricetag on what is maybe a $25k car. If nothing else THEY should realize it is bonkers to pay 60% of a vehicles value and offered a suggestion for an independent to replace the clutches. That's how you keep brand loyalty.

[Jake@JHM]

Strangely reassuring to read something like this. Appreciate you saying that. It felt like I was taking crazy pills having the conversation with the foreman. If that's how they want to handle their services, that's fine, and I actually understand that from a liability standpoint. But just be transparent about it.

Clutches had just over 101k miles on them.

Definitely one of the highest mileage C7 S6's I've seen to date. I purchased with 75k miles ~1 year ago with fairly extensive maintenance history, almost entirely serviced at a Dealership in California. I drive ~25-30k miles/yr so I generally buy vehicles in the 60-75k mile range knowing I'll just drive the value right out of them anyway.

If you ever need a second opinion on something, give us a ring. We are at your disposal

We get a LOT of local jobs here because dealers want to just replace instead of rebuild/repair. For instance, recently, we saved a C7 customer a TON of money because our local Audi wanted to charge them $9k to fix the mechatronics unit on a ZF8. They missed diagnosed it.

The issue was this: https://jhmotorsports.com/catalogsea...sult/?q=4h0121 This solenoid fails A LOT (everyone should check theirs). The coolant comes out of the harness connector and ends up corroding the harness to the Transmission causing problems. If you catch it early enough you can just replace the solenoid (very easy) or worse case you have to repair the harness. We have seen these fail as early as 45k miles.


Do you have TCU tuning?

[F0UR PL4Y]

Do you have TCU tuning?

No, the car is mechanically 100% stock.

[Jake@JHM]

Understood, yet when timing chain tensioners, water pumps, piston rings, turbos, PCV's etc. go they never seem to replace the engine.
Thing being... clutch, or clutch packs should definitely be a repairable item at what is supposed to be the most capable and educated place...a dealership. I can understand if it were to cost say $6k due to parts mark up and higher labor rates vs. $4k, but to just give up wholly and say if clutches go the entire trans needs to be replaced at a ludicrous $15k pricetag on what is maybe a $25k car. If nothing else THEY should realize it is bonkers to pay 60% of a vehicles value and offered a suggestion for an independent to replace the clutches. That's how you keep brand loyalty.

Most dealers will not do piston rings or major timing components for chain cars. Basic maintenance items like water pumps pcvs, of course they will do that. Dealers will do turbo replacements as well. Like I said, typically they don't rebuild. Not all dealers are equal so there are some dealers that will go further than others.

They used to do the same thing for the manual transmissions that had bad shift collars. They did it to the B6-B7 S4 guys with timing chain issues etc..

I believe its a liability issue for them to recommend an independent, and at the same time, they will lose business as chances are you would stick to that independent going forward ultimately costing Audi a customer. In the end, they are doing this for the money and they aren't car enthusiasts like most of us (most sponsors on Audiziine) who care about the community

[gk1]

Most dealers will not do piston rings or major timing components for chain cars. Basic maintenance items like water pumps pcvs, of course they will do that. Dealers will do turbo replacements as well. Like I said, typically they don't rebuild. Not all dealers are equal so there are some dealers that will go further than others.

They used to do the same thing for the manual transmissions that had bad shift collars. They did it to the B6-B7 S4 guys with timing chain issues etc..

I believe its a liability issue for them to recommend an independent, and at the same time, they will lose business as chances are you would stick to that independent going forward ultimately costing Audi a customer. In the end, they are doing this for the money and they aren't car enthusiasts like most of us (most sponsors on Audiziine) who care about the community

In this case it sounds like they lost business and a long term customer by not having things sorted out properly at the dealership level, where Audi-to-customer relations take place. Just makes me a little bit sad.

[F0UR PL4Y]

I believe its a liability issue for them to recommend an independent, and at the same time, they will lose business as chances are you would stick to that independent going forward ultimately costing Audi a customer. In the end, they are doing this for the money and they aren't car enthusiasts like most of us (most sponsors on Audiziine) who care about the community

All I would add is that, not being truthful (using deceptive practices) with consumers is also a liability issue.

When I ask a simple question, "Is there a possibility that the clutch packs are bad?", and a shop foreman says "Absolutely no way", knowing damn well it's AT LEAST a possibility, that is deceitful (and pathetic).

In this case it sounds like they lost business and a long term customer by not having things sorted out properly at the dealership level, where Audi-to-customer relations take place. Just makes me a little bit sad.

Agreed. Along with a bit of irritation, it makes me very sad.

[Jake@JHM]

On a serious note, definitely check your solenoids: https://jhmotorsports.com/catalogsea...sult/?q=4h0121

They can be failing and causing damage without any codes/malfunctions

[Valpo A7]

If you ever need a second opinion on something, give us a ring. We are at your disposal

We get a LOT of local jobs here because dealers want to just replace instead of rebuild/repair. For instance, recently, we saved a C7 customer a TON of money because our local Audi wanted to charge them $9k to fix the mechatronics unit on a ZF8. They missed diagnosed it.

The issue was this: https://jhmotorsports.com/catalogsea...sult/?q=4h0121 This solenoid fails A LOT (everyone should check theirs). The coolant comes out of the harness connector and ends up corroding the harness to the Transmission causing problems. If you catch it early enough you can just replace the solenoid (very easy) or worse case you have to repair the harness. We have seen these fail as early as 45k miles.


Do you have TCU tuning?

Your link is giving me a fatal error.

[Jake@JHM]

Your link is giving me a fatal error.

Sight JUST went down for maintenance, should be back up in a few minutes