'15 Q5 transmission adaptation/reset

[Waffles_s4]

Hi all,

I would like to know if there is a VCSD procedure on readapating or resetting the ZF transmission on these cars?

[Marc R]

Interesting....

[djn876]

Hasn't come up here, but doesn't mean there isn't one out there. Probably just need to check the various control modules.

What are you looking to do?

[scottst]

I was poking around in the vcds and there is an option to reset the transmission. Has big disclaimers re untested and at your own risk. I searched around on forums and the guess was that it would put it all the way back to ‘pre Breakin’. You would need to do the same initial drive routine that they do at the factory? AFAIK nobody has actually tried it.

Go for it and let us know how it goes :)


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[Waffles_s4]

Some shifts are a bit rough, whether shifting up or down. Not consistent, sometimes it's smooth, other times not so much.

I just want to reset the transmission to relearn.

BTW, whats the service interval on this transmission? At which mileage should the oil be changed? Does it have a filter like the dsg?

[Waffles_s4]

I was poking around in the vcds and there is an option to reset the transmission. Has big disclaimers re untested and at your own risk. I searched around on forums and the guess was that it would put it all the way back to ‘pre Breakin’. You would need to do the same initial drive routine that they do at the factory? AFAIK nobody has actually tried it.

Go for it and let us know how it goes :)


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I see the following options available, which one are you referring to?

20200209_203448.jpeg

[djn876]

Audi says lifetime fluid, ZF says 60 to 80k miles, so yes should be changed periodically. Resetting the trans might not help, could be any of the rubber parts wearing too. it does have a filter if you want to change it. Just make sure to follow the right fill procedure, it's fairly specific.

[Waffles_s4]

I have 18,000 miles on it, far from the intervals you mentioned.

[zatta]

I have similar weird shifts, 3/4 throttle feels weird in my car. It kind of studders before it shifts. But otherwise full throttle everything is about good to me. If you end up trying it, let us know how it goes it could be beneficial to many of us.


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[Novarider]

Try this

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=532755

[Waffles_s4]

I have similar weird shifts, 3/4 throttle feels weird in my car. It kind of studders before it shifts. But otherwise full throttle everything is about good to me. If you end up trying it, let us know how it goes it could be beneficial to many of us.


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Exactly. And am under warranty, but I think it happens so randomly that I won't be able to replicate it at the dealer. These cars are known to behave magically well when they see the dealership sign.

[Waffles_s4]

Try this

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=532755

I will try it when snow clears, it's a mess outside. With snow I won't hear the engine and shifting properly, so it's harder to see if things get better or stay the same.

[djn876]

If it is a 5 year old car with only 18k miles it means it's done a lot of sitting and probably has picked up a fair amount of condensation over time since it wasn't driven a lot to burn it off. Resetting adaptations probably won't hurt anything but a fluid change wouldn't be a bad idea at this point.

Cars like to be driven and ones that sit a lot can have some occasional issues from not being used enough.

If it's a 5 year warranty, you should at least bring it up to the dealer, that way the issue is documented prior to the warranty expiring and could still potentially get support once the time period expires.

Is the car tuned?

[Waffles_s4]

If it is a 5 year old car with only 18k miles it means it's done a lot of sitting and probably has picked up a fair amount of condensation over time since it wasn't driven a lot to burn it off. Resetting adaptations probably won't hurt anything but a fluid change wouldn't be a bad idea at this point.

Cars like to be driven and ones that sit a lot can have some occasional issues from not being used enough.

If it's a 5 year warranty, you should at least bring it up to the dealer, that way the issue is documented prior to the warranty expiring and could still potentially get support once the time period expires.

Is the car tuned?

Its driven hard, it also get some highway from time to time.

ZF oil change is not covered, so it woild have to be done on my own expense. Not sure what garages quote for that.

If dealer cannot replicate an issue, they won't do anything about it.

100% stock.

[djn876]

Just because you drive it hard now doesn't mean that the fluid hasn't degraded from contamination over time that wasn't being removed while the car was sitting. I don't know what the cost would be for that job, probably not more than 2 or 3 hours assuming you don't do the filter. It's really just drain it and fill it, but the fill requires the trans at temp, shifting through gears, etc. Wouldn't be a hard job for a shop that has some experience with this transmission. My point was having a documented issue with the dealer, even if they can't replicate it, may grant you at least some good will with Audi later on. If you don't have anything, they are less inclined to believe that this issue occurred prior and you just decided to say something then. I understand that they won't fix anything if they can not detect a problem.

[Novarider]

Shops charge $900-$1200 for a fluid/filter change. It's not difficult, I did mine on my back in my driveway. Genuine fluid/filter will be roughly $450 of you can diy.

[scottst]

Try this

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=532755

Exactly the setting I found and was tempted to try but chickened out. Good to hear it has worked for someone. Might be wise to do after a flush?


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[Novarider]

Exactly the setting I found and was tempted to try but chickened out. Good to hear it has worked for someone. Might be wise to do after a flush?


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Most do a reset after a fluid change.

Read this thread. It has all the information you'll need

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...Lifetime-fluid

[Waffles_s4]

Well I might plan a fluid change when the car has higher mileage or reaches 8 years per the recommended period to change it (60,000 miles or 8years, whichever comes first). Am far away from either.

That said, I don't think it's fluid related.

I think it's adaptation related. So I might try the reset procedure, but am just not sure that going WOT after the adaptation is done is the right way to adapt a tranny. Anyone knows how the dealer adapts or drives the car following the adaptation procedure?

[Novarider]

Well I might plan a fluid change when the car has higher mileage or reaches 8 years per the recommended period to change it (60,000 miles or 8years, whichever comes first). Am far away from either.

That said, I don't think it's fluid related.

I think it's adaptation related. So I might try the reset procedure, but am just not sure that going WOT after the adaptation is done is the right way to adapt a tranny. Anyone knows how the dealer adapts or drives the car following the adaptation procedure?

I didn't do WOT after the reset. I just drove normally/easy for a few days.

[Waffles_s4]

I didn't do WOT after the reset. I just drove normally/easy for a few days.

Did u feel any difference before and after?

[Shaggymatt]

Shops charge $900-$1200 for a fluid/filter change. It's not difficult, I did mine on my back in my driveway. Genuine fluid/filter will be roughly $450 of you can diy.

That's insane. The Beck/Arnley filter is $89. At first I thought the $450 was insane, then I saw how much the actual ZF fluid is. Ran into a 7 quart kit on Amazon for $175. Pentosin has quart bottles in the $15 range. I haven't researched deeply yet, I plan on changing my transmission fluid and filter this summer.

[Novarider]

That's insane. The Beck/Arnley filter is $89. At first I thought the $450 was insane, then I saw how much the actual ZF fluid is. Ran into a 7 quart kit on Amazon for $175. Pentosin has quart bottles in the $15 range. I haven't researched deeply yet, I plan on changing my transmission fluid and filter this summer.

Personally I wouldn't use non oem filter/fluid on this transmission.

[Novarider]

Did u feel any difference before and after?

After the fluid change? Yes, shifts were more smooth. I tried the adaptation reset before the fluid change and it didn't make a difference by itself.

[Waffles_s4]

Personally I wouldn't use non oem filter/fluid on this transmission.

X10

[Waffles_s4]

After the fluid change? Yes, shifts were more smooth. I tried the adaptation reset before the fluid change and it didn't make a difference by itself.

Hmm, how many miles u had when u did the fluid change, and how old was your car at that time?

Did u do it yourself or took it in? Sorry if it was already mentioned

[Novarider]

Hmm, how many miles u had when u did the fluid change, and how old was your car at that time?

Did u do it yourself or took it in? Sorry if it was already mentioned

110k ish miles and it's a 2011 a4. The a4 and q5 use the same zf8 transmission.

I did it myself for about $450 in my driveway. Dealer wanted $1200 and Eurotech wanted $950.

I bought the fluid/filter from fcpeuro so it came with their lifetime warranty. When I want to change it again (which I will soon) all I'm out is the cost of sending the old fluid/filter back to them.

[Waffles_s4]

110k ish miles and it's a 2011 a4. The a4 and q5 use the same zf8 transmission.

I did it myself for about $450 in my driveway. Dealer wanted $1200 and Eurotech wanted $950.

I bought the fluid/filter from fcpeuro so it came with their lifetime warranty. When I want to change it again (which I will soon) all I'm out is the cost of sending the old fluid/filter back to them.

At your mileage and year, it makes sense to replace fluid and filter. Am not even within the recommended change interval.

[Novarider]

At your mileage and year, it makes sense to replace fluid and filter. Am not even within the recommended change interval.

Maybe not but you're having issues.

[yamto72]

I did the fluid change last fall in my wife's 2009, it was at about 90K miles. We were experiencing occasional rough shifting, especially when cold. The 1-2 upshift and 3-2 downshift were the most noticeable. I bought the filter and oil from thectsc.com and got the gasket from ECS. I bought a case of the oil to get the best price - you need to drain and refill 3-4 quarts over two different days to get the most benefit, since you cannot drain all the oil out even when dropping the pan to replace the filter. I had the added benefit of a leaking gasket around the mechatronic connector (the leak only started after the first drain), so I got to drop the pan a second time and partially drop the mechatronic unit to replace the gasket.



Fortunately I had the extra oil as I used all 12 quarts out of the case to get to the correct level after the second (third?) drain.
The oil change, following the ZF-recommended procedure to the letter, improved the shifting immeasurably. But if DIYing you have to be willing replace the filter, to follow the refill procedure, and then you have to run the car for a couple days, and drain and refill again (this time without dropping the pan). You should use VCDS to read the transmission temps; I had the car up on a Quickjack and had my laptop on the floor, under the car with me to monitor the trans temps.
I like the car a lot but dislike the throttle response from a standing start; I really need to do the throttle body adaptation and probably the trans adaptation linked above.

[Waffles_s4]

What? Why did u have to drain, fill, drain, drain fill?? And why over 2-3 days? Where is the link for the official procedure

[Novarider]

In the thread I posted above. It has all the information you will need if you read it.

No idea what he's talking about, definitely does not take 2-3 days or multiple drain and fill.

The fill procedure is a little complicated but not bad.

Edit: looks like a 2009 Q5 used the ZF6 transmission not the ZF8 we're discussing. No idea what the procedure is on the ZF6.

[djn876]

Here is the ZF8 generic procedure.

https://aftermarket.zf.com/go/en/aft...on-oil-change/

The audi procedure is pretty much the same in the factory manual. Not sure what all of that other stuff is. Even with a filter changeout it is the same process just dropping the pan and pulling old filter off and putting a new one in.

[choppstixxx]

This video might help a little even tho it's for a 7 speed DSG B8.5 S4:

[yamto72]

What? Why did u have to drain, fill, drain, drain fill?? And why over 2-3 days? Where is the link for the official procedure

The mechatronic seal started leaking after the first drain.

No idea what he's talking about, definitely does not take 2-3 days or multiple drain and fill.

The fill procedure is a little complicated but not bad.

Edit: looks like a 2009 Q5 used the ZF6 transmission not the ZF8 we're discussing. No idea what the procedure is on the ZF6.

The drain only gets about half the fluid out (3-4L out of approx 7L capacity) in the 6HP-28 trans. You have to run it for while and do it again to get the fluid to more than 50% old/new. Most of the DIYs on these transmission make note of this. Apologies for not realizing this thread was for the DSG.

[Waffles_s4]

This thread is for the ZF8

[djn876]

Eh, the ZF procedure for a fluid change from them says nothing about doing it more than once. Places like FCP, and other parts suppliera also don't mention doing that. I get what your saying, and maybe if it hasn't been done routinely, but if you are following their service schedule, just doesn't seem necessary.

[Waffles_s4]

Updating this old-ish thread.

Have not changed the fluid (yet), I might call a couple shops for quotes, worse case if it's too $$ I will do it this summer. Car is 5 years old regardless of mileage (31,000 km).

Will also try the adaptations this or next week.

Anyone knows if dynamic mode alters in any way the shifting of the transmission? Am trying to conclude if dynamic mode is really helping it shift better. Am also thinking if a TCU tune would help as well

One thing for sure, higher outside temps make it shift much better overall.

[findalex]

Updating this old-ish thread.

Have not changed the fluid (yet), I might call a couple shops for quotes, worse case if it's too $$ I will do it this summer. Car is 5 years old regardless of mileage (31,000 km).

Will also try the adaptations this or next week.

Anyone knows if dynamic mode alters in any way the shifting of the transmission? Am trying to conclude if dynamic mode is really helping it shift better. Am also thinking if a TCU tune would help as well

One thing for sure, higher outside temps make it shift much better overall.

If the transmission shifts better after it gets warmed up, that could be because your fluid level is low. Once warmed up, the fluid expands and also becomes thinner so it also flows better.

I recommend you drain/fill the fluid a few times (if not replacing the filter) to get all the old fluids out and replace with fresh new fluid. I've used Valvoline Maxlife ATF with great results.

After you replace the fluid, reset the adaptation and do the test drive. The shift quality will improve the more you drive it and the transmission adapts. I had some shuddering and rough 4->3 shifts that were fixed after 1st) new ignition coils by Denso, 2nd) drain/fill 3 times @ approx 5 quarts each time. No idea why the ignition coils helped, but it really did!

A. Quick adaptation is the first thing to do:

1. ATF temp over 40 C
2. In D, drive with light throttle (60 - 100 Nm), max rpm 2100, 1 ->2 up shift, 2 ->3 upshift, 3 ->4 upshift
3. If possible, decelerate your speed without brake down to 40 kph/24 mph, let transmission downshift itself to proper gear

B. Slip adaptation is next:
4. After less than 24 mph, brake and stop the car completely. While still in D, hold brake and stay stationary for 7 seconds.

C. Pulse adaptation is done automatically while you're driving under light-medium throttle (less than 2100 rpm)

[Waffles_s4]

If the transmission shifts better after it gets warmed up, that could be because your fluid level is low. Once warmed up, the fluid expands and also becomes thinner so it also flows better.

I recommend you drain/fill the fluid a few times (if not replacing the filter) to get all the old fluids out and replace with fresh new fluid. I've used Valvoline Maxlife ATF with great results.

After you replace the fluid, reset the adaptation and do the test drive. The shift quality will improve the more you drive it and the transmission adapts. I had some shuddering and rough 4->3 shifts that were fixed after 1st) new ignition coils by Denso, 2nd) drain/fill 3 times @ approx 5 quarts each time. No idea why the ignition coils helped, but it really did!

A. Quick adaptation is the first thing to do:

1. ATF temp over 40 C
2. In D, drive with light throttle (60 - 100 Nm), max rpm 2100, 1 ->2 up shift, 2 ->3 upshift, 3 ->4 upshift
3. If possible, decelerate your speed without brake down to 40 kph/24 mph, let transmission downshift itself to proper gear

B. Slip adaptation is next:
4. After less than 24 mph, brake and stop the car completely. While still in D, hold brake and stay stationary for 7 seconds.

C. Pulse adaptation is done automatically while you're driving under light-medium throttle (less than 2100 rpm)

I meant to say, once the outside temp (ambient) is higher (say above 10C) the shifting also got better (versus in winter when it was below 0 Celsius). Am not sure why or how a 30,000km car would have low oil unless there is a leak, but I dont see a single drop of any oil under the car.