Honest Assessments M4 vs. RS3

[MarcusDubya77]

So, we have a lot of unregulated roads here. We also have a few M4 owners who think they cam pretty much beat anything. Question is... what are the experiences here for tuned RS3s vs tuned M4s? Dig and roll..... If we need specific Stage 2 Unitronic RS3 vs M4 w/ DPs and tune???

[speeddemon69]

Lol talk about perfect timing i ran one last night while making a stop at the walmart in Mexico and saw one trying to be a bad ass on the highway. And i went after him caught up then he went WOT and i did too and pulled and pulled like a commercial plane and then he stayed back and eventually got off the exit.


Though the one i ran was an M3 same power terrain extra doors. Sedan vs sedan. Probably stock. I am on UNI stage 1+ E85, intake, inlet, mid pipes, intercooler, lighter wheels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dubonfire]

BMW are certainly overpriced.

M2 is about the price of an RS3
M2 Comp is over an RS3 by a good margin
M2 CS is the price of a RS5
M3/M4 is about the price of an RS5.

My guest is for a properly tuned stock turbo M4 on the same fuel:
From a dig, Quattro is hard to beat
At highway speed, M4 should pull away at least slowly

Its a 6 cyl 3.xx liter with an air to water intercooler it can't be that slow.

[BDP]

Here is a good place to start. Stock turbo E85 record 60-130 mph for the F80 is 6.4. I'd say from a roll against a proper E85 car most stock turbo RS3's are going to struggle. From a dig, well unless the M3/M4 is slicked they shouldn't be much of a problem.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1383036&page=9

[Potshot]

Are the new m3/4 going to have X-drive awd? The xm3 comp has it. If they have an e85 tune I suspect that thing will be hard to beat. Keep in mind that's a 77k car.

[r26372]

Are the new m3/4 going to have X-drive awd? The xm3 comp has it. If they have an e85 tune I suspect that thing will be hard to beat. Keep in mind that's a 77k car.

Not heard that. but if it did get xdrive it would slow, not help, the highway runs.

[omniphil]

M3/4 with downpipes, E85 and tune is around 500whp isn't it?

RS3 Stage 2 E85 should be around 560whp

[P5stunna]

I had an F80 M3 and couldn't beat anything. I guess that's why I'm here.

[myrder]

FBO E85 M4/3 will trap about 132-135. Seems like Stg2 E85 RS3s are similar. As others have said a roll probably the m4/3, stop the RS3 has it all day.

[TheContrarian]

You have android auto, so you have already won.

[MarcusDubya77]

Hahaha... Well... This is Deutschland...So no nice juices.. 98 RON for both which is 93 Octane. I would theoretically be running Unitronic Stage 2 and Stage 2 TCS... He would be bolt on DP and CBE+ exhaust... plus at least 10k pounds of shit talking...hahahha

[NoSuchSol]

M3/4 with downpipes, E85 and tune is around 500whp isn't it?

RS3 Stage 2 E85 should be around 560whp

I'm thinking you're a little off on the F8X numbers. From what I can gather, a stage 1 tune will get you around 480-500WHP though Dyno to Dyno it's always different.

P5stunna - I went the opposite direction. I really liked the RS3 but it wasn't as engaging IMHO as the M3 was. But I'm also not out there racing people - I just want to drive crazy every once in a while. ;)

TheContrarian - Yup, that was a huge loss for me, but it's not too expensive to add it thanks to BimmerTech. I was hoping they'd bring out a wireless version though.

[NoSuchSol]

Are the new m3/4 going to have X-drive awd? The xm3 comp has it. If they have an e85 tune I suspect that thing will be hard to beat. Keep in mind that's a 77k car.

They're saying that they'll have a RWD 6MT "Pure" model and then the top of the line one would be the S58 w/ AWD (503 hp) - take a look at what the X4M is doing and hope that a proper M3/4 will be lighter and run just as well.

[sankarea]

Fastest F8x on the forums 60-130 4.8 (Built, PS2)
IMS1000 RS3 beats that on stock weight
For reference a 720s runs 5.1-2 stock, 4.8 with a tune.

In terms of e85 stock turbo setups, it's pretty even for both cars.
But if you go to the TTRS, then it has the edge.

RS3/TTRS platform is much better though imo, after owning like 4 f8x cars.
Too many reasons why.

[P5stunna]

What a coincidence. Driving along and an M4 pulls up behind me and mirrors my lane changes so I figure he probably wants to play. We take an on-ramp and it clears up and I punch it while he’s still on my tail. I pull on him by about 3 car lengths pretty quickly but he slowly reels me in. I let off the gas because of a car up ahead in my lane and he changes to the left lane so I’m forced to let him pass. He passes me and I get in behind him. He floors it and I do too but it appears to be evenly matched and he’s probably tuned himself. I’m forced to disengage because my exit is approaching so he’s probably celebrating at that point. Was a fun quick run.


Note: The video is very similar to my experience with the M4.

[s316]

raced fbo m4 E85 + meth, my rs3 fbo E85 no meth, im half car front

from 60mph roll up to 186mph, m4 ~600 whp oem turbo

[S3NICK]

Yes, but everyone keeps forgetting the current M3/4 all have some probability of experiencing the dreaded crank hub seperation/failure. They're also always traction challenged, even stock. Personally, I don't want to deal with either of those issues. Great cars otherwise, and I'm excited to see what the G generation M cars do. I sure hope the new S58 motor doesn't also suffer from the crank problem.

[NoSuchSol]

Yes, but everyone keeps forgetting the current M3/4 all have some probability of experiencing the dreaded crank hub seperation/failure. They're also always traction challenged, even stock. Personally, I don't want to deal with either of those issues. Great cars otherwise, and I'm excited to see what the G generation M cars do. I sure hope the new S58 motor doesn't also suffer from the crank problem.

It's a weird design choice/flaw. I haven't heard anyone saying that the B58 and S58 use the same type of "two-piece" crank hub. The failure rate is lower (and the fix, if it hasn't happened, a little easier) than in my old Focus RS. =\ The open deck design probably wasn't the best idea... nor was the very similar head gaskets that got switched. heh.

[brad65ford]

Recently got rid of my M2 comp, they are quick from a roll, imo faster than the rs3 and for less money in mod's. One of the key features is the water to air inter cooler which keeps intake charge very cool even when its hot outside. Wish Audi did similar with our RS3's but that's another subject. Bottom line if the M2 comp, m3 or m4's can (hook even from a roll) they move out very well for for little mods required. From a dig its a different story, all hail the RS3 lol.

[S3NICK]

It's a weird design choice/flaw. I haven't heard anyone saying that the B58 and S58 use the same type of "two-piece" crank hub. The failure rate is lower (and the fix, if it hasn't happened, a little easier) than in my old Focus RS. =\ The open deck design probably wasn't the best idea... nor was the very similar head gaskets that got switched. heh.

Right, moving away from the S55 is probably a good thing. In terms of the RS, the product marketing team knew about the HG flaw before the vehicle went into production. That's a direct statement from someone on the team I used to work with. Shame ...

[NoSuchSol]

Right, moving away from the S55 is probably a good thing. In terms of the RS, the product marketing team knew about the HG flaw before the vehicle went into production. That's a direct statement from someone on the team I used to work with. Shame ...

The F8X is probably one of the most reliable M-cars to boot. The preventative part is around a 100.00 and wouldn't be too hard to do... or just pay a few hundred to get it installed. Beyond that, the engine is a great piece of tech.

[brad65ford]

crack hub slipping is the only issue that I've heard of with the s55. But its a damn stout engine other than that.

[Fourplay]

Right, moving away from the S55 is probably a good thing. In terms of the RS, the product marketing team knew about the HG flaw before the vehicle went into production. That's a direct statement from someone on the team I used to work with. Shame ...

The product marketing team knew the wrong head gaskets were being installed when the guys on the line didn't? That doesn't make sense, if anyone would have known, it would have been the workers on the line and they would have stopped production and replaced them.

The entire issue with the FoRS was basically that the wrong box of 2.3L head gaskets got delivered to final assembly and installed. Mustang EcoBoost vs. FoRS. The fix was very simple (if the car hadn't overheated): remove and replace head gasket, drain, flush, and fill oil and coolant.

[S3NICK]

The product marketing team knew the wrong head gaskets were being installed when the guys on the line didn't? That doesn't make sense, if anyone would have known, it would have been the workers on the line and they would have stopped production and replaced them.

The entire issue with the FoRS was basically that the wrong box of 2.3L head gaskets got delivered to final assembly and installed. Mustang EcoBoost vs. FoRS. The fix was very simple (if the car hadn't overheated): remove and replace head gasket, drain, flush, and fill oil and coolant.

From what I was told, during testing, not that long before its public release, the motor was popping related to HG issues. They had to take an extra 1-2 months to figure out the source of failure.

In terms of the wrong head gaskets getting installed, I am not surprised no one noticed, and I feel like that's separate from what was relayed to me. Either way, water the under bridge at this point.

[myrder]

You need to talk to people who have owned both. We have. We actually still do. We have a 2015 F80 M3 that was our S55 shop development car. With mods, it put down an easy 750WHP on stock motor stock clutches. This is with our upgraded turbos, PI kit, downpipes, etc.

As far as raw power the RS3 at stage 1 or Stage 2 levels does not even come close. The M3 would destroy it from a roll, as proven by our 1/2 mile traps which were about 8-9MPH faster in the M3 with 2 car seats in it weighed about 4000lbs. With it close to the same weight as our RS3 it would probably do 15-18MPH more. As far as digs obviously the RS3 is a another animal, and with less power, it destroys the M3 from a dig simply because the AWD launch is brutal. BUT we have the only 2 cars in the world running stock motor S55 with our turbos in the 9's. So on a prepped surface with some decent tires. The M3 is no joke.


Also in our opinion the new AWD M3 is going to be an RS3 killer. Take that S58 engine which is already showing to be ridicuolusly easy to get power out of with the AWD platform, and the car is going to be stupid stupid fast. We can't wait to get one.

How do you think the RS3 with upgraded turbo will compare to your M3? Came from the BMW world myself and agree the S58 engine is going to be a monster in the M3.

[SolarRS3]

The big con with the new s58 m3 will be price. I wonder how they will price the xdrive m3/4

[ReallyNotHalvie]

You need to talk to people who have owned both. We have. We actually still do. We have a 2015 F80 M3 that was our S55 shop development car. With mods, it put down an easy 750WHP on stock motor stock clutches. This is with our upgraded turbos, PI kit, downpipes, etc.

As far as raw power the RS3 at stage 1 or Stage 2 levels does not even come close. The M3 would destroy it from a roll, as proven by our 1/2 mile traps which were about 8-9MPH faster in the M3 with 2 car seats in it weighed about 4000lbs. With it close to the same weight as our RS3 it would probably do 15-18MPH more. As far as digs obviously the RS3 is a another animal, and with less power, it destroys the M3 from a dig simply because the AWD launch is brutal. BUT we have the only 2 cars in the world running stock motor S55 with our turbos in the 9's. So on a prepped surface with some decent tires. The M3 is no joke.

What makes these cars slow from a roll? Weight and haldex or is there another reason? Not something that can really be "fixed"?

[sankarea]

You need to talk to people who have owned both. We have. We actually still do. We have a 2015 F80 M3 that was our S55 shop development car. With mods, it put down an easy 750WHP on stock motor stock clutches. This is with our upgraded turbos, PI kit, downpipes, etc.

As far as raw power the RS3 at stage 1 or Stage 2 levels does not even come close. The M3 would destroy it from a roll, as proven by our 1/2 mile traps which were about 8-9MPH faster in the M3 with 2 car seats in it weighed about 4000lbs. With it close to the same weight as our RS3 it would probably do 15-18MPH more. As far as digs obviously the RS3 is a another animal, and with less power, it destroys the M3 from a dig simply because the AWD launch is brutal. BUT we have the only 2 cars in the world running stock motor S55 with our turbos in the 9's. So on a prepped surface with some decent tires. The M3 is no joke.

As far a styling the M3 wins hands down. It is so much more aggressive-looking and just looks like a meaner car. We lined them up side to side, and had a shop vote. Not a single person chose the RS3 styling over the M3, and we have two dedicated Audi guys that work here.

Interior the Audi was hands down the winner, but it's hard to justify because our M3 was a 2015, and the RS3 is a 2019. A lot has changed in 4 years. I sat in a 2019 M3, and the interior was light years ahead of the 2015.

The bottom line is this.

M3 Good: I always felt like more people complimented us on the M3, it looks much more aggressive. They are rockets in a straight line. The brakes on them DESTROY the RS3 brakes. Very fast from a roll, can take a LOT of power reliably on the stock motor/trans, can be found extremely cheap right now
M3 Bad: RWD tries to kill you at anything over 600WHP, a dated interior, bad exhaust note (unless you change to a specific exhaust set up), hard to launch from a dig, crank hub issue (which we fixed, and offer fixes for - https://vargasturbo.com/product/vtt-...khub-solution/ )

RS3 Good: The Exhaust note is literally intoxicating, launching from a dig is hard to beat on any platform for the price, awesome interior
RS3 Bad: Looks like an A3 to people who do not know the difference, lackluster styling, shitty brakes, much over 550WHP is built motor territory, expensive

Verdict: While I loved the M3 when I had it, and it drew much more positive attention. The RS3 is my favorite shop car we have had in a while. It is ridiculously fast and sounds amazing. The M3 is up for sale as our development is done on the S55, but it's still here, and I never drive it. Give me the RS3, thank you... With that said if you want a very upgrade happy platform for like 35K that will get you looks from just about everyone, it's hard to argue with the value of the F80/82 platform right now.

Also in our opinion the new AWD M3 is going to be an RS3 killer. Take that S58 engine which is already showing to be ridicuolusly easy to get power out of with the AWD platform, and the car is going to be stupid stupid fast. We can't wait to get one.

"You need to talk to people who have owned both. We have. We actually still do."

Most of the people here have owned a F8x in the past, no idea why you're coming off like that when multiple owners who've had both had chimed in...

"As far as raw power the RS3 at stage 1 or Stage 2 levels does not even come close."

Strange looking at the 60-130 and 1/4 mile list, most of the Stage 2 owners are running just as fast if not faster than the F8x with similar mods...

Also:
If you're going to mention the PS2 F8x than do it with the RS3 as well.
Street tires the Pure Hybrid RS3 traps 140+...minimal mods required

The RS3 is easily one of the most tunable platforms with usable power for next to nothing.
How many stock turbo F8x in the 9 second 1/4 mile?
Yet we have TTRS's with a Stage 1 E85 tune doing it here.

[BDP]

Strange looking at the 60-130 and 1/4 mile list, most of the Stage 2 owners are running just as fast if not faster than the F8x with similar mods...

But they aren't...what vargas is saying is spot on. The absolute best time posted at least on this forum for an E85 bolt on car is 6.9 seconds. That's a stripped out car which is ever so popular around here. There are full interior F80 running high 6's and a best of 6.40. F80's are literally hampered by the amount of power they make and being able to get it to the ground. From a roll a well equipped F80 on E85 should pull a well equipped E85 RS3...stock weights.


Now that people are so accustomed to ripping seats, door cards and everything else out of their 60k cars to chase a number people forget the details and lump all times in to one bucket.

Here's about what you are looking at from a roll and a dig...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E_qXDo0wOA

[sankarea]

But they aren't...what vargas is saying is spot on. The absolute best time posted at least on this forum for an E85 bolt on car is 6.9 seconds. That's a stripped out car which is ever so popular around here. There are full interior F80 running high 6's and a best of 6.40. F80's are literally hampered by the amount of power they make and being able to get it to the ground. From a roll a well equipped F80 on E85 should pull a well equipped E85 RS3...stock weights.


Now that people are so accustomed to ripping seats, door cards and everything else out of their 60k cars to chase a number people forget the details and lump all times in to one bucket.

Here's about what you are looking at from a roll and a dig...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E_qXDo0wOA

None of these are stock S1/S2 cars we're talking about on similar mods --> What we're comparing here and what Vargas was referring to in his original comment "not even close".

It took over 4 years for someone to "achieve" that 6.4 60-130. It's very close to what my PS2 setup on stock turbos was (e.g., 6.35 - Terry@BMS/ F80 M3 DCT / JB4 / Pure S2 Turbos / Dodson CP/ FBO / 97 Octane + WM / 3 shifts)
How are you going to take an extreme and use it as evidence of the norm for being significantly faster?
6.4 is flying...most people who post on the RS3 forums aren't using rod-bending tunes, meth, or going for a stock block record so you're obviously not seeing it.

Stage 1 F80s are ~123 trapping cars, right around the same as a Stage 1 RS3...
BM3 Stage 2 cars are ~130 trapping cars, right around the same as Stage 2 RS3...
I also said "just as fast" or faster in the 1/4 mile (Find me multiple examples of the F8x stock turbo in the 9s please)... That's a huge difference from Vargas' nomenclature "destroy".

Fact of the matter is that the RS3 is a superior platform imho.
The simple thing comes down to the F8x not putting power down, barely in stock form, and definitely not modded.
There's no point in benchmark racing. When youve literally owned every iteration of the F8x, you know how it performs in the real world.
Have you? Do you even have a RS3?

[sankarea]

Sigh, how much are these stock turbo 9 second RS3's weighing (all 3 of them, one of them was stripped to the point of having no door panels in it). I know because we close to having one. We run 10.1's with a bad launch but the car is down to about 2950lbs without me in it. That's about a 800-900lbs lighter than an M3. There are plenty of stock turbo M3/4's in the 10.2 second range with anywhere from 500-1000 lbs more. The difference is the same as it always was POWER. The RS3 is fast because it can hook up, but line the two cars up from a roll, and the higher power car is going to take the win.

We ran a 5.9 60-130 in an M4 literally 4 years ago with just turbos and a tune. The car weighed in close to 4000lbs. Not a single thing removed. If you do not like my comparison, by all means, that is your choice, but I posted facts not fantasy. I mean I said I prefer the RS3, but the M3/4's are nasty cars with just a few mods. You can never post anything without pissing someone off, its just the way of the world in 2020

If you're in the business, you should know not to throw around phrases like "not even close" and "destroy" when it's clearly not the case.

Once again, that 5.9 M4, can be matched by a hybrid RS3 with just a "turbos and a tune". Easily beat too if it's a TTRS.
e.g., Lamboworld's TTRS with a TTE700 runs a 5.0

But wait...here are the specs for the 5.9 you supposedly ran on only "turbos and a tune".
(5.94 - Chris@VargasTurboTech / F82 M4 DCT / VTT Stage2 turbos / Custom BM3 flash by Dzenno / JB4 / VTT silicone charge pipes / BMS intakes / Aftermarket DP's / Catless exhaust / EOS V2 top mount PI manifold / PFS Double Shot LPFP Upgrade / VTT / Bell Air to Water intercooler / Dodson Sportsman Clutch upgrade / 100% E85 / R888 Tires / 2 shifts)

Mod for mod, the RS3 can go with the F8x on a roll. Nowhere have you corroborated your terminology of "not even close"...
From a dig, the RS3 slaughters the F8x. Weight reduction or not, magical unicorns, find me a 9 second stock turbo F8x.

[sankarea]

If you say so sir, I will say it for the 3rd time. Having owned both cars. I prefer the RS3, but the M3/4's make more power easier and do not need an engine build to be reliable at 750WHP. I love it when people say weight reduction or not. LOL. You realize dropping weight is the same as adding power. Again all 3 of these 9-second stock turbo RS3's are stipped to the bone, with a race seat in them, etc. Not many (IE none that I know of, and our best selling products are S55 upgrades) F80 owners are willing to do that. I knew better than to get involved with this. So many fanboys get so upset when you compare two cars even if you say you prefer the car they are grandstanding for. Waiting 5 minutes, and deleting all these posts. Sorry OP. You obviously cannot get an honest opinion about an F80 Vs RS3 on an Audi Forum, but we refuse to get involved in any back, and forth

Don't post generalizations on an open forum if you don't want to get involved in a back and forth.

That being said, if it was possible, someone would have done it and posted it.
No 9 second stock block F8x. I'll say it again for the 20th time if need be.

And stop with the petty passive aggressive shit. "Fanboys"
If you had actually looked to see if I was in the f8x forum, you would know I come from P cars and built GTRs. Like many others here that own the RS3.
We don't need to be "fanboys" in order to like a car that's impressive for what it is.
But since you're going to go there with the name calling, anyone can google your reputation in the Bimmer community...

[mtwallace85]

Where’d all the VTT posts go? lol

For what it’s worth, it looks like they’ve possibly been banned from every BMW forum on the internet but there are people standing by them saying their turbos work great.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[BDP]

None of these are stock S1/S2 cars we're talking about on similar mods --> What we're comparing here and what Vargas was referring to in his original comment "not even close".

A 6.9 versus a 6.4 isn’t very close. There would be a substantial amount of horsepower that would needed added to close it. I’d say weight reduction would help but that 6.9 is already a gutted car.

It took over 4 years for someone to "achieve" that 6.4 60-130. It's very close to what my PS2 setup on stock turbos was (e.g., 6.35 - Terry@BMS/ F80 M3 DCT / JB4 / Pure S2 Turbos / Dodson CP/ FBO / 97 Octane + WM / 3 shifts)
How are you going to take an extreme and use it as evidence of the norm for being significantly faster?
6.4 is flying...most people who post on the RS3 forums aren't using rod-bending tunes, meth, or going for a stock block record so you're obviously not seeing it.

Thanks for the history lesson. However in present day which last time I checked where we exist, it is what is. I compared the EXTREME end of the spectrum which is a fully gutted RS3 with FBO on E85 to the 6.4 FBO E85 F80. What the flying hippy d*cks are you talking about most RS3 owners aren’t EXTREME? Pretty much half the damn times out there are GUTTED and going to the EXTREME by literally running ONE damn racing seat in their car to grab a record.

Also, if you would actually take the time to look through the link I posted to the 60-130 mph list on the F80 forums you will see MULTIPLE 6’s for 60-130 mph and some low 7’s. They aren’t flukes. With that please also peruse the 60-130 mph thread on this very RS3 forum to show a couple 8 second E85 cars and some mid 7’s and how many 6’s? You guessed it only the one I used.

I’d be open to see some more 6’s from RS3 owners if they want to post them, stock turbo/E85.

Stage 1 F80s are ~123 trapping cars, right around the same as a Stage 1 RS3...
BM3 Stage 2 cars are ~130 trapping cars, right around the same as Stage 2 RS3...

Great but what you fail to understand is how those cars get to those 123mph/130mph trap speeds. The F80’s are getting all of that back from the 1/8th mile to the end of the 1/4th while the RS3’s are generating more of their speed from still to the 1/8th mile. Do yourself a favor and check out the delta's on these cars from the 1/8th to the 1/4th mile. I shouldn't have to tell you which ones equates to a better roll racer.

The simple thing comes down to the F8x not putting power down, barely in stock form, and definitely not modded.

Where have I heard this before?

F80's are literally hampered by the amount of power they make and being able to get it to the ground.

There's no point in benchmark racing. When youve literally owned every iteration of the F8x, you know how it performs in the real world.
Have you? Do you even have a RS3?

Bud, you own an RS3 and don’t know what you are talking about so I wouldn’t go trying to make this argument.

[myrder]

Thread went to hell. Anyway I don't see any low 9, or high 8 second F8x M's out there. So RS3 is doing something right.

[NoSuchSol]

From what I was told, during testing, not that long before its public release, the motor was popping related to HG issues. They had to take an extra 1-2 months to figure out the source of failure.

In terms of the wrong head gaskets getting installed, I am not surprised no one noticed, and I feel like that's separate from what was relayed to me. Either way, water the under bridge at this point.

If I remember correctly, the head gasket used had additional coolant channels that the block and between the cylinder walls that was causing the issue. They took mine in, confirmed that it was the wrong head gasket and replaced. They also did a pressure test afterwards to make sure everything was good. It was an '18 model built towards the end of '17. I could have lived with the repair/replacement that they did, but the other issues caused the lemon. Kid you not, a squeak in the drivers door ended up with a door replacement and a partial repaint that created an even worse noise and paint quality issues. 77 days in the shop out of 7 months of ownership and the dealership offered to start the lemon without me asking. I loved the way the car handled but thought maybe I wouldn't go as extreme toy by getting the RS3... then the RS3 was a little too buttoned up for me. Oh well.

[Fourplay]

If I remember correctly, the head gasket used had additional coolant channels that the block and between the cylinder walls that was causing the issue. They took mine in, confirmed that it was the wrong head gasket and replaced. They also did a pressure test afterwards to make sure everything was good. It was an '18 model built towards the end of '17. I could have lived with the repair/replacement that they did, but the other issues caused the lemon. Kid you not, a squeak in the drivers door ended up with a door replacement and a partial repaint that created an even worse noise and paint quality issues. 77 days in the shop out of 7 months of ownership and the dealership offered to start the lemon without me asking. I loved the way the car handled but thought maybe I wouldn't go as extreme toy by getting the RS3... then the RS3 was a little too buttoned up for me. Oh well.

Yep, it was the Mustang / Explorer / MKC 2.3L EcoBoost head gasket that had an extra coolant channel in the gasket that the 2.3L FoRS engine did not have. The FoRS engine had an internal channel between the water jackets instead of one in the gasket. So when they installed the wrong gasket, coolant would get into the combustion chambers of cylinders 2 and 3. There were 2 batches of cars with the issue - some built from April - June'17 and some later '17 build cars.

All should be fixed now but that doesn't unfortunately change the reputation the cars had. I went in a different direction (CTR) but looked at FoRS, GT350, and RS3.

[sankarea]

A 6.9 versus a 6.4 isn’t very close. There would be a substantial amount of horsepower that would needed added to close it. I’d say weight reduction would help but that 6.9 is already a gutted car.




Thanks for the history lesson. However in present day which last time I checked where we exist, it is what is. I compared the EXTREME end of the spectrum which is a fully gutted RS3 with FBO on E85 to the 6.4 FBO E85 F80. What the flying hippy d*cks are you talking about most RS3 owners aren’t EXTREME? Pretty much half the damn times out there are GUTTED and going to the EXTREME by literally running ONE damn racing seat in their car to grab a record.

Also, if you would actually take the time to look through the link I posted to the 60-130 mph list on the F80 forums you will see MULTIPLE 6’s for 60-130 mph and some low 7’s. They aren’t flukes. With that please also peruse the 60-130 mph thread on this very RS3 forum to show a couple 8 second E85 cars and some mid 7’s and how many 6’s? You guessed it only the one I used.

I’d be open to see some more 6’s from RS3 owners if they want to post them, stock turbo/E85.




Great but what you fail to understand is how those cars get to those 123mph/130mph trap speeds. The F80’s are getting all of that back from the 1/8th mile to the end of the 1/4th while the RS3’s are generating more of their speed from still to the 1/8th mile. Do yourself a favor and check out the delta's on these cars from the 1/8th to the 1/4th mile. I shouldn't have to tell you which ones equates to a better roll racer.



Where have I heard this before?







Bud, you own an RS3 and don’t know what you are talking about so I wouldn’t go trying to make this argument.

Let me break this down for you as easily as possible so I don't hurt your brittle feelings.

The F8x platform has been around much longer since late 2014, the sample size on their forum is also significantly larger than the RS3 following here.
Once again, do you own a F8x or a RS3?

Instead you pick the fastest F8x times (from a large sample size over many years) A/B vs a much smaller database of RS3 times (very few contributions), then make a generalizing conclusion.
Keep in mind also 1) the numbers of the F8x you're talking about (low 7s, high 6s) are custom maps worked by F80 Paul to literally milk the most out of the engine. Read custom. It took him until late 2018 to start achieving those numbers on customer cars...late 2019 to get the last ounce to break 6.4, which is also running meth.
2) Wouldn't you agree this is pretty important if this is not matched by the numbers you're seeing on the RS3 (Unitronic S2 OTS maps)? Isn't that obvious?

Now going back to the original comment that I refuted.
My point is S1 / S2 F80s are not significantly faster on a roll than equivalent S1 / S2 RS3s as Vargas seems to suggest.
Why do I say this? Because real world experience, actual street pulls with the the actual cars, something you seem to misunderstand.
Only thing you can post are some youtube edited vids where it's clearly biased in the f8x owner (cuts off the dig race).

But since you want to benchmark race, here are some "average" data from F8x S1 / S2 OTS maps
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1557625
Note how these numbers are significantly different than the numbers you purport for the entire S1/S2 F8x platform...Once again "extremes".

No one has anything to prove to you, understand this platform is still very new, lots to learn.
Come back in a few and I'll guarantee we'll have some better results with more aggressive mapping on stock turbo RS3s.
But wait...how about modded turbos?
Look at what IMS has done with the RS3, far surpassing anything on the F8x platform.
If the F8x is so fast on a roll, why hasn't it gone any faster??? Hmm

It amazes me when people can act aggressive talking about cars they've never owned, never driven, and use things they watched or read online to make conclusive statements.
Stay in your own lane.

[5_cyl]

I am APR stage 2 on 91 and I eat my buddies M3 and M4 up from the dig. We do 30 and 40 mph rolls too and I jump out on them by half a car and am at a full car by the time we hit 100.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[BDP]

Let me break this down for you as easily as possible so I don't hurt your brittle feelings.

The F8x platform has been around much longer since late 2014, the sample size on their forum is also significantly larger than the RS3 following here.
Once again, do you own a F8x or a RS3?

Instead you pick the fastest F8x times (from a large sample size over many years) A/B vs a much smaller database of RS3 times (very few contributions), then make a generalizing conclusion.
Keep in mind also 1) the numbers of the F8x you're talking about (low 7s, high 6s) are custom maps worked by F80 Paul to literally milk the most out of the engine. Read custom. It took him until late 2018 to start achieving those numbers on customer cars...late 2019 to get the last ounce to break 6.4, which is also running meth.
2) Wouldn't you agree this is pretty important if this is not matched by the numbers you're seeing on the RS3 (Unitronic S2 OTS maps)? Isn't that obvious?

Now going back to the original comment that I refuted.
My point is S1 / S2 F80s are not significantly faster on a roll than equivalent S1 / S2 RS3s as Vargas seems to suggest.
Why do I say this? Because real world experience, actual street pulls with the the actual cars, something you seem to misunderstand.
Only thing you can post are some youtube edited vids where it's clearly biased in the f8x owner (cuts off the dig race).

But since you want to benchmark race, here are some "average" data from F8x S1 / S2 OTS maps
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1557625
Note how these numbers are significantly different than the numbers you purport for the entire S1/S2 F8x platform...Once again "extremes".

No one has anything to prove to you, understand this platform is still very new, lots to learn.
Come back in a few and I'll guarantee we'll have some better results with more aggressive mapping on stock turbo RS3s.
But wait...how about modded turbos?
Look at what IMS has done with the RS3, far surpassing anything on the F8x platform.
If the F8x is so fast on a roll, why hasn't it gone any faster??? Hmm

It amazes me when people can act aggressive talking about cars they've never owned, never driven, and use things they watched or read online to make conclusive statements.
You're the one that needs to stay in your own lane.

LOL.

Nice deflect bub. Are these your new goal posts? Paul's times don't count but but but a stripped out RS3 does? It was a custom tune but I'll ignore the fact that many people here run custom code software...lol. I don't care how long it took for the F80 to get to where it is and how you much you think the RS3 will progress. I live in today I suggest you try it.

How about I stay in my lane as soon as you stop posting nonsense... Deal?

Here let me help you out and you should stop posting and just leave the below statement as your only post in this thread.

The simple thing comes down to the F8x not putting power down, barely in stock form, and definitely not modded.lane.lane.