Disappointed with Stage 1 Q5

[nicotino15]

Have a 2016 Q5 3.0t stage 1 ECU & TCU, only other mods are 034 intake tube and modified stock airbox. Best 0-60 is 5.25, best 1/4 is 13.6 at 102mph.

Seems like everyone else stage 1 is running sub 13 sec 1/4 and sub 5 sec 0-60, so I just don't understand what my problem is. I thought maybe it was a heat thing since I'm in Texas, but today was a high of 50* and DA at 5-600 feet and I'm still getting almost stock-like times.

I spoke with the tuner and he recommended changing spark plugs, which I did, but still no improvement...

Any thoughts on what could be wrong, or suggestions to find the issue?

[nicotino15]

Pic for latest runs today:

fullsizeoutput_e9b.jpgfullsizeoutput_e9c.jpg

[ILVTRANCE]

what tune did you go with?

[bajan01]

Are you engaging AMAX?

[nicotino15]

EPL

I believe so, I put it in dynamic, step on brake, floor the gas and once it levels out at 2500ish RPM I let off the brake and go. Do it all the time in my S4 which is super consistent compared to the q5

[97B518TQM]

Don’t get too biased by the numbers you see from people with custom tunes, especially TCU custom tunes. For an off the shelf generic tune you are not too far off.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[RoofRails]

If AMAX is engaged there wont be any "DSG Fart" sound in between the shifts. That makes a big difference but it wont make up enough time to make a mid 13 into a mid 12.

Are you looking at your Charge Air temps before you run.For a good clean run you should be starting below 130F. If you are heat soaked it will pull a bunch of timing and ruin your time.

What did your car run before the EPL tune ? Is there a chance the tune did not load up when flashed?

Your times are very much on par with a Stock 3.0T.

EPL

I believe so, I put it in dynamic, step on brake, floor the gas and once it levels out at 2500ish RPM I let off the brake and go. Do it all the time in my S4 which is super consistent compared to the q5

Sent from my SM-N960U using Audizine mobile app

[djn876]

Turn off traction control too or AMAX is not engaged. This makes a big difference.

Are you running a 91 or 93 tune? Gas good? What do your logs look like? There is a bunch of stuff that could be going on.

I would have expected a little higher of a spike in acceleration off the line that doesn't seem to be there, but again without more info it's hard to tell if there is an issue or not.

[jsikes7]

Yikes..

I've been seriously considering Stage 1 EPL for my 2016 SQ5 before months end but this gives me some pause.

[nicotino15]

It was under 50f and I stopped off the highway so I wouldn't expect heat to be the issue.

Unfortunately I don't have a vag com and there is no data logging through EPL's cable on Q5 so I don't have logs.

I don't recall turning off traction control, so that could possible be affecting it. I'll try again tomorrow and make sure traction control is off. Just trying to get confirmation if something is wrong or not, if traction control doesn't make a bigger difference than I guess I'll have to get vag com and run logs.

Has anybody gone bigger pulley on stage 1 and noticed a difference? I'm curious if a bigger pulley would ensure I always have enough psi on tap even though I know it would bleed some.

[bajan01]

Turn off traction control too or AMAX is not engaged. This makes a big difference.

Yes, S-mode, traction control off and steering must be straight too.

Even on a bone stock 3.0T you’ll know if AMAX is engaged vs. not...the acceleration with AMAX is so much stronger even on a stock or Stage 1 vehicle. I wouldn’t think that timing would be pulled on a stage 1 tune in 50F ambient temps but there’s no way to really tell if something isn’t wrong without datalogging. I advise you to get VCDS, ECUTools or similar if you want to keep an eye on things, especially if you plan on going Stage 2 or higher.

[RoofRails]

You can get a bluetooth dongle for 35.00 off Amazon and load up a 10.00 app (Torque pro) and watch a bunch of readings through your OBD2 port including ambient and Charge air temps. You can even do some logging with it.

Putting a STG 1 tune on a 3.0T Q5 is a very big jump and you should be grinning from ear to ear with all your new found power. Something is a miss.

I asked you if there was a chance your tune didn't take when it was flashed because there was someone here that recently went EPL stg 2 and was complaining there wasn't any additional power , come to find out they never correctly loaded the Stg 2 file.

It was under 50f and I stopped off the highway so I wouldn't expect heat to be the issue.

Unfortunately I don't have a vag com and there is no data logging through EPL's cable on Q5 so I don't have logs.

I don't recall turning off traction control, so that could possible be affecting it. I'll try again tomorrow and make sure traction control is off. Just trying to get confirmation if something is wrong or not, if traction control doesn't make a bigger difference than I guess I'll have to get vag com and run logs.

Has anybody gone bigger pulley on stage 1 and noticed a difference? I'm curious if a bigger pulley would ensure I always have enough psi on tap even though I know it would bleed some.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Audizine mobile app

[nicotino15]

Yep, it's a good point, will make triple sure to have traction off.

Roof - pretty sure, Chris walked through the installation with me, and I remember seeing the confirmation and new settings. Plus, performance seems a bit better than stock, just not nearly what I expected. I was expecting a bigger difference for sure, sub 13s 1/4 and sub 5 sec 0-60 at least.

[RoofRails]

Performance should feel night and day better than the 272hp the 3.0T came with stock. A 100whp bump should be giggle worthy ! You are in the right place to get it figured out but you will need to get us some more info to work with.

I use a OBDlink LX bluetooth dongle with the Torque pro app for every day monitoring. If you dont want to jump into VCDS right now just get something cheap like this for now.

P.S. Dont even think about a smaller SC pulley until you get this STG1 tune sorted out.

Yep, it's a good point, will make triple sure to have traction off.

Roof - pretty sure, Chris walked through the installation with me, and I remember seeing the confirmation and new settings. Plus, performance seems a bit better than stock, just not nearly what I expected. I was expecting a bigger difference for sure, sub 13s 1/4 and sub 5 sec 0-60 at least.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Audizine mobile app

[djn876]

I've made the traction control mistake previously, it's been almost a 0.5 second difference. Make sure your coolant and oil are up to temp and steering wheel is straight. Running 91 vs 93 also makes a notable difference.

Could also be more than just heat if there really is an issue.

Running a larger pulley isn't really going to help since you don't know if it's bleeding boost for some reason, it's just going to bleed more if it is. If you go that route, just go stage 2.

My thoughts are if you are going to tune the car, buy something to log with, VCDS or another option, as you really need to check periodically to make sure nothing is off, and that there are no issues with changes as they are made

[simy]

Something is definitely off here. I installed the EPL stage 1 tune and it was night and day difference. Have you given it a little time to adapt after you installed it? I'd reach out to Chris @ EPL and get it sorted out asap.

[joe916]

Have a 2016 Q5 3.0t stage 1 ECU & TCU, only other mods are 034 intake tube and modified stock airbox. Best 0-60 is 5.25, best 1/4 is 13.6 at 102mph.

Seems like everyone else stage 1 is running sub 13 sec 1/4 and sub 5 sec 0-60, so I just don't understand what my problem is. I thought maybe it was a heat thing since I'm in Texas, but today was a high of 50* and DA at 5-600 feet and I'm still getting almost stock-like times.

I spoke with the tuner and he recommended changing spark plugs, which I did, but still no improvement...

Any thoughts on what could be wrong, or suggestions to find the issue?

Completely stock 2014 q5 3.0t s_line temperature was in the 90s something is definitely wrong with your EPL tune Screenshot_20191222-225119_Gallery.jpeg

Sent from my SM-N950U using Audizine mobile app

[Salty Mope]

agree with what everyone else has said.

amax probably wasn't engaged because you would know if it was. its like a slingshot compared to going without it. that alone should take close to .5 off your time. everything else between low 12's and high 12's will come down to wheels, tires, DA's etc.

if you for sure engage amax and are still getting stock numbers, you'll be forced to get some logs to either share here or share with EPL to see if its an issue with the file or with the car. its very rare for anyone to be underwhelmed after going stage 1 so chances are it didn't flash correctly.

[nicotino15]

thanks for the feedback, will try some logging options I might have. That's why I love my jb4 for the s4, bluetooth logs whenever I need them on my phone.

[djn876]

As we've all stated, it could be any number of things and isn't indicative of an issue with the tune. The data is nice, but saying it's a tune problem with no basis isn't really helpful.

Completely stock 2014 q5 3.0t s_line temperature was in the 90s something is definitely wrong with your EPL tune Screenshot_20191222-225119_Gallery.jpeg

Sent from my SM-N950U using Audizine mobile app

[joe916]

As we've all stated, it could be any number of things and isn't indicative of an issue with the tune. The data is nice, but saying it's a tune problem with no basis isn't really helpful.

Well what else can it be besides the tune not being properly flashed?

[Novarider]

What rpm is it shifting at? Should be a pretty definitive way to tell if the TCU tune took.

[djn876]

Fuel Quality
91 v 93 tune
Launch not using AMAX
Car pulling boost
Car pulling timing
Doesn't know what IAT was
Intercooler core leaking
Bad cat
The list goes on....and yes some of these are more likely than others and some would produce other symptoms, but not necessarily if it's early in the failure of say an intercooler for example.

Flashing again won't hurt anything, but without logs you can't tell if there is another underlying issue that he may not have seen until now when he's actually measuring performance.

Well what else can it be besides the tune not being properly flashed?

[vdubjetta02]

My Sq5 STOCK was running around 5.2 0-60 at 5,100 feet in elevation.

Have not tried it with the tune yet..... I am guessing there is an issue with your TCU tune.

[Chris@EPL]

Replied to your last email to try and see what is going on with your car.

[joe916]

Fuel Quality
91 v 93 tune
Launch not using AMAX
Car pulling boost
Car pulling timing
Doesn't know what IAT was
Intercooler core leaking
Bad cat
The list goes on....and yes some of these are more likely than others and some would produce other symptoms, but not necessarily if it's early in the failure of say an intercooler for example.

Flashing again won't hurt anything, but without logs you can't tell if there is another underlying issue that he may not have seen until now when he's actually measuring performance.

for some reason fuel quality has been the culprit lately with some tunes lol makes me wonder

[djn876]

Yeah I don't know, I've never had an issue regardless of what I run, but it seems some parts of the US have more issues than others. I try run Sunoco since that's the most easily accessible top tier fuel, but I've run grocery store has when I have to and i haven't seen anything notable. Given I don't log every tank of gas either.

Reading the S4 forums though these engines seem more sensitive then others when tuned.

[joe916]

Yeah I don't know, I've never had an issue regardless of what I run, but it seems some parts of the US have more issues than others. I try run Sunoco since that's the most easily accessible top tier fuel, but I've run grocery store has when I have to and i haven't seen anything notable. Given I don't log every tank of gas either.

Reading the S4 forums though these engines seem more sensitive then others when tuned.

i mainly run costco top tier 93octane in my opinion i think they carry the freshest 93 with the volume they sell and you cant beat the price

[djn876]

I don't have a membership yet but it's one of my primary motivators for joining.

[joe916]

I don't have a membership yet but it's one of my primary motivators for joining.

you wont regret it

[buggravy]

OP, numbers and graphs aside, do you FEEL a difference after the tune? Some have questioned whether or not the flash actually took, but there should be a significant and unmistakable difference in feel between a stock 3.0T and a stage 1. No way you're not going to feel 120+ HP if the flash actually loaded.

[MSq5]

It was under 50f and I stopped off the highway so I wouldn't expect heat to be the issue.

Unfortunately I don't have a vag com and there is no data logging through EPL's cable on Q5 so I don't have logs.

I don't recall turning off traction control, so that could possible be affecting it. I'll try again tomorrow and make sure traction control is off. Just trying to get confirmation if something is wrong or not, if traction control doesn't make a bigger difference than I guess I'll have to get vag com and run logs.

Has anybody gone bigger pulley on stage 1 and noticed a difference? I'm curious if a bigger pulley would ensure I always have enough psi on tap even though I know it would bleed some.

You absolutely must have traction control tuned off. When you activate AMAX, the upshift into second gear is violent. You will know. The difference is a full .4 to .5 second improvement in time.

Also, do you have any type of scanner? I've discovered that there is a soft code that shows up from time to time regarding the steering angle sensor and ABS system. If that code is activated, AMAX will not function. You will not get a fault code light on your instrument panel . You must go in with VCDS or some other type of recoding software and reset the steering wheel angle. I intend to post a separate thread here on what you have to do. I'm not sure why my car's steering angle sensor throws the code.

A Q5 with 272 hp with a Stage 1 EPL tune without benefit of TCU tuning should have an ET of high 12's. With a good TCU tune and higher upshift to 6,900-7000 rpm. probably closer to 12.5 give or take a tenth. Mine did. When you go Stage 2, especially dual pulley, heat soak high IAT's (even with improved cooling) and fuel quality start becoming an issue. I had no problem with fuel or IAT's when running Stage 1.

[MSq5]

for some reason fuel quality has been the culprit lately with some tunes lol makes me wonder

Only with Stage 2, particularly Stage 2 dual pulley. Even with IE. Ask your friend Madmen. He and I are running the same mods, both dual pulley, both same ratio. Both running HPT TCU tunes. He has IE ECU Dual Pulley ECU tune, I have EPL DP ECU tune. We are both having the same issue and both having the car lay down, pulling timing up top with lower than expected trap speed for our 12.2 ETs.

It's not the tune, unless you want to blame IE also. We speculate that this may be a limit on what 93 octane can do on this engine on our heavy SUVs. That's an issue for another thread. We have them going.

Forgive the digression. To repeat, fuel in general is not the issue for OP (unless he just got a bad tank) Nor is it the tune. He has not properly engaged AMAX. He may need plugs, properly gapped. He may have leaking s/c cores. There are several other possibilities also mentioned earlier in this thread.

[nicotino15]

Ok, good news, I made sure traction control was off and got much better times. DA was higher today compared to yesterday, 1600ft vs 680ft yesterday, but overall felt much better.

To confirm, I have stage 1 ECU tune AND TCU tune. Both are definitely active as the rpm goes over 7000k and it feels slightly faster. It's honestly hard for me to tell bc I daily drive a tuned S4 that is obviously much faster (3.6 0-60, and sub 12 sec 1/4). I also just replaced spark plugs with proper gap, so that's not the issue, and I always run 93 here in DFW which is usually universally good.

I was able to consistently get 4.8X 0-60 and 13.17 1/4 mile on multiple attempts:

29940806-4597-4FFA-997E-1F076A1CFCA6.jpg4F77A1CB-86BD-40ED-ADDD-FC37543C18AF.jpg4855748F-0E0F-476F-8180-843819BAA513.jpg

I still thought I would get closer to 4.5 and sub 13 sec 1/4, but being that I couldn't get anywhere close to these times in the summer, I think HX is a must-have for TX weather. I'm going to try E30 and see if that gets me there, but I feel like it shouldn't be required.

[MadMen]

If it's hard to tell the difference, then AMAX is still not engaging. It's very obvious when it does - even if times don't change at all.

[MSq5]

Ok, good news, I made sure traction control was off and got much better times. DA was higher today compared to yesterday, 1600ft vs 680ft yesterday, but overall felt much better.

To confirm, I have stage 1 ECU tune AND TCU tune. Both are definitely active as the rpm goes over 7000k and it feels slightly faster. It's honestly hard for me to tell bc I daily drive a tuned S4 that is obviously much faster (3.6 0-60, and sub 12 sec 1/4). I also just replaced spark plugs with proper gap, so that's not the issue, and I always run 93 here in DFW which is usually universally good.

I was able to consistently get 4.8X 0-60 and 13.17 1/4 mile on multiple attempts:

29940806-4597-4FFA-997E-1F076A1CFCA6.jpg4F77A1CB-86BD-40ED-ADDD-FC37543C18AF.jpg4855748F-0E0F-476F-8180-843819BAA513.jpg

I still thought I would get closer to 4.5 and sub 13 sec 1/4, but being that I couldn't get anywhere close to these times in the summer, I think HX is a must-have for TX weather. I'm going to try E30 and see if that gets me there, but I feel like it shouldn't be required.

Much better, but it still does not look like your AMAX activated. Did you spin a lot when launching? Either no AMAX or a huge amount of lost traction. You should pull close to 1g coming out of the hole in first with a Stage 1 tune and then see another big upward “bump” on the graph at the 1>2 upshift, if AMAX was engaged and you have a TCU tune.

[nicotino15]

Much better, but it still does not look like your AMAX activated. Did you spin a lot when launching? Either no AMAX or a huge amount of lost traction. You should pull close to 1g coming out of the hole in first with a Stage 1 tune and then see another big upward “bump” on the graph at the 1>2 upshift, if AMAX was engaged and you have a TCU tune.

I felt pretty big jerks on each shift. I was talking to Chris and I don't know what's up with the launch either, I'm not getting any wheelspin, I hold brake, floor it, as soon as it hits 23 to 2400 rpm I let go of the brake.

[RoofRails]

Here is a graph of a STG 1 car with no TCU tune in a similar DA as your run with the Spikes MSq5 was Speaking about.

I felt pretty big jerks on each shift. I was talking to Chris and I don't know what's up with the launch either, I'm not getting any wheelspin, I hold brake, floor it, as soon as it hits 23 to 2400 rpm I let go of the brake.

FB_IMG_1576504662558.jpgFB_IMG_1576504659029.jpg

Sent from my SM-N960U using Audizine mobile app

[nicotino15]

Here is a graph of a STG 1 car with no TCU tune in a similar DA as your run with the Spikes MSq5 was Speaking about. FB_IMG_1576504662558.jpgFB_IMG_1576504659029.jpg

Sent from my SM-N960U using Audizine mobile app

that looks perfect and what I would expect to see. What method did you use, same as mine?

Maybe I can remove the TCU tune and see how it does...

[friedliver]

Shot in the dark here, but maybe you're releasing the brakes too soon? You said you're launching right as the RPMs climb to 2.3k. Maybe let it sit there for half a second before letting go?