UNREAL!!! COMPLETELY OILLESS AND NO COOLANT REQUIRED TURBOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So I was on Comp turbo's site and they just announced that they've developed a turbo that requires no oil OR water cooling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's a HUGE deal for those interested in rear mount turbo setups. You can mount them anywhere and in any position. Plus they also have the triples ceramic ball bearing CHRA. I had a triplex in my Passat and I drove that thing hard and put it away wet and there was absolutely ZERO extra play in the shaft when I finally pulled it out after 1 1/2 years (car collapsed a lifter and dropped a valve at 8000 RPM)

Click the link and check the press release

https://www.compturbotechnology.com/

[ven0m]

That actually looks/sounds amazing. First time I hear about oil-less turbos. But as you said, that would greatly simplify any turbo setup; specially the rear mounted. Thanks for sharing!

[Bordom]

Hmm. Maybe I'll add a rear mount setup to my blower lol

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[Stazi]

They are greased with a special PFPE lubricant.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

No problem, happy to help.

Lol, at the risk of sounding like a shill for these guys, let me outline some of the stuff that sold me on them as a company.

I had heard about their oilless ones some time ago and recommended them for rear mount setups as all you needed was to mount a coolant reservoir, pump and some dual pass coolers in the left muffler. Much better than the hassle of running 10+ feet of AN oil lines and having to run a pump to get them to return the oil to the engine. Never mind the possibility of springing a leak due to a snag or debris and pissing out all your engine oil.

While I'm certain they aren't cheap, when you add all the hassle and cost of a proper oiling setup for a rear mount. I would wager that the price difference would be largely negated by not having to shell out for all the oil accessories. As well, they're completely insensitive to orientation, you could mount it vertically if it made life easier.

Also, having bought my 5556 triplex almost 10 years ago, Comp appears to have really stepped up their compressors as well. The blades appear thinner, they are now using extended tips and their hubs are much thinner than before. So I have no issue believing that they flow more than their previous gen billet compressors (which were no slouches either having been milled on 5 point axis machines vs the cheaper flank milling technique which doesn't allow for 3rd order shaping).

Added bonus is unlike a Garrett which requires a new CHRA if things fail, the Comp triplex CHRA bearing sections are basically a free floating cylinder which makes them much more serviceable in the unlikely event of a failure.

I should also add that while the extra bearing race up front may create a tad more drag, the dual bearing system gives them PHENOMENAL thrust loading capacity in that the two bearing races are offset 10-15 degrees facing each other. Basically that means that the entirety of the thrust loading is taken at the compressor side where it's developed. The rear bearing is just there to support the turbine and freewheels. However it has a pre-tensioned spring to keep it in it's place as there is always a differential in expansion between front to back on account of temperature. That's where the dual bearing systems run the risk of bearing skid and damage.

The only issue I have is that last I checked, they were still using stage 3 T3 turbines on their smaller turbos. Now that may have changed as I know they've done some development on their 58+ size turbines (much more like a GT style with a smoother/contoured blade which minimizes exit losses and turbulence. But I have yet to see any turbine maps or comparisons between Comp and different brands.

What amazes me is how such a small company managed to come up with something so utterly innovative whilst huge multinationals like Allied Signal (Garrett), Borg Warner, IHI etc... couldn't. Maybe because it's a niche market. However with rear mount setups becoming more and more accepted. These turbos just seem like the right product at exactly the right time...

[WhatsATurbo]

You're unlikely to see something like this from Garrett and others because the greased solution won't pass many of the OE-style durability tests required for bearing life and other factors for product release. The warranty risk would be too high. The performance issues aren't trivial, either, if you get into strict comparison tests.

*I used to work at Garrett...

[Velox]

How new is this? I googled a bit and see forum post from years back of people running this, most are complaints about reliability

[EricZ]

You're unlikely to see something like this from Garrett and others because the greased solution won't pass many of the OE-style durability tests required for bearing life and other factors for product release. The warranty risk would be too high. The performance issues aren't trivial, either, if you get into strict comparison tests.

*I used to work at Garrett...

X2

*I work at BorgWarner...


Aerocharger is another turbocharger brand that has self-contained lubrication, and they have been around since the 1990's.

[WhatsATurbo]

How new is this? I googled a bit and see forum post from years back of people running this, most are complaints about reliability

Not surprised! I would think you'd have to grease this up daily if not at least weekly to keep it up, and even then...

There are some sealed-lube aerospace bearing applications where pressurized oil just isn't tolerable, but you can imagine how expensive the lube, bearing materials, and seals are for something like that, not to mention that the operating conditions and maintenance intervals are held to incredibly strict standards. A turbocharger is an even harsher environment than a typical jet turbine or other 'turbomachinery' class of equipment in terms of temperature exposure and thermal cycles. Fresh oil is the best thing for it. What Garrett and others (hi Eric!) would tell you is that a traditional sleeve bearing would be better than Comp's setup for longevity and performance. It's a great concept if you can make it work for you, though.

Ryan

[JimmyBones]

X2

*I work at BorgWarner...


Aerocharger is another turbocharger brand that has self-contained lubrication, and they have been around since the 1990's.

Aerocharger's variable vane turbos are really cool. I have driven a few 4x4s with them and the response is awesome! Would love to put those on an Audi but this platform doesn't have the room required in the engine compartment. A 4.0T or R8 does though. Too bad that the biggest 66 series that they sell is only good for around 540 CFMs.

[Stazi]

Not surprised! I would think you'd have to grease this up daily if not at least weekly to keep it up, and even then...

There are some sealed-lube aerospace bearing applications where pressurized oil just isn't tolerable, but you can imagine how expensive the lube, bearing materials, and seals are for something like that, not to mention that the operating conditions and maintenance intervals are held to incredibly strict standards. A turbocharger is an even harsher environment than a typical jet turbine or other 'turbomachinery' class of equipment in terms of temperature exposure and thermal cycles. Fresh oil is the best thing for it. What Garrett and others (hi Eric!) would tell you is that a traditional sleeve bearing would be better than Comp's setup for longevity and performance. It's a great concept if you can make it work for you, though.

Ryan

The grease is >$1000/kg. My company makes it.

[Bordom]

With the oilless turbos it was recommended to re-grease every oil change. Almost nothing but complaints about reliability of the oilless turbos. I'd imagine these would be the same

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[ZimbutheMonkey]

Agreed, although I certainly respect Zandrew, I know him and I debated the merits of Comp turbos as he had had one fail on him apparently, and my response to him was "well, if they fail that often, then there should be no shortage of reports online" As recall he was had pressed to find just about any failures.

There MAY have been some initial failures in the V1.0 oilless type. But having gotten to their 3rd generation, I would think they have a pretty good idea as to how well they last. Remember, these guys STARTED by making full out race turbos.

Also, as I can say with certainty from my own experiences, that dual front ball bearing setup taking the axial thrust loading in both directions makes them virtually indestructible. (At least the triplex variety)

Regarding how often you need to re-grease them, it's not very often. On the order of every 6 months or so? That, and when you look at the CHRA, there isn't exactly a lot of room for grease period. So $10,000/Kg or not, if you only need a ketchup package worth, it's a bit of a moot point no?

I think what we're all starting to veer off on though is the possibilities and MAJOR MAJOR simplifications this brings to rear Mount turbo set-ups. Basically all you need to do is run your turbine and compressor piping fore and aft, wastegates and DV lines and that's it. (and tuning and feeling of course).

What terrifies me about running 10 feet of oil lines under the car is the possibility of a leak or strike or snag which results in the line being compromised. In which case, there goes your built engine, AND turbo.... Plus the extra added expense of getting it to drain right as memory serves, don't you need to actively pump all the drain oil back into the engine sump? (again, another possible failure point).

It's be great if AEM could be bothered to make a ready made Infinity unit that could be used with ME7.1.1 and retain the CAN-BUS functionality, but while I'm dreaming why not ask for a pony as well