How To Live (and Survive) With A C5: The Sage Advice Thread

[S/RConcepts]

Hello once again, everyone!

This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. There are so many of us that have recently picked up C5's for the first time, and more still that have been-there, done-that and have been doing so for years. This thread is aimed more-so at the former, and I hope the folks that fall into the latter lot will help to contribute, as I myself hope to.

The genesis of this thread is one simple question: What are the main truths/facts one should to know to live with a C5 A6?

The main intent here is to collect the main bits of advice that you wish someone would have told you when you first got your C5, or even the things someone tried to tell you, but you were too stubborn to listen (been there before ), or just something cool you've learned along the way! I'll post a couple examples myself to start, as well as a few later, as I'm sure there's more than a few that others will be able to put more eloquently than I can currently muster.

Some truths/random facts I've learned so far:

- VCDS (aka VAG-COM) is, as near as makes no difference, a necessity.
- The proper special tools for timing belt replacement are an absolute necessity, no matter what your independent mechanic might tell you.
- Not all parts are created equal. Good quality parts are a must- buy once, cry once... especially when it comes to suspension.
- When it comes to modifying your C5, 2.7T & RS6 4.2T> all others. I say this as a proud 4.2 N/A owner... if you want to modify, the turbo engines are where it's at.

Ok, I think you get the gist by now lol. Feel free to post something up! (Even if you think this is a dumb idea, that's OK too. )

[SteelyS6]

This is a great idea! Working on my 6th C5 currently. To this day they still are one of the best looking cars on the road. When sorted properly one of the best driving cars as well.

Things I have learnt along the way:

They will try to leak water into the interior in every way possible.

As hard as you try you will break some plastic whether it's an interior trim piece or electrical connector in engine bay.

Your project budget in your mind, just triple it and accept it.

Great community and I have met a lot of great people because of it!

Quality parts only like you mentioned.

[idotavant]

Love the idea of the thread. New c5 ar owner, so I have it coming. Had a b5 Passat in the day

Plastic will break a bit more. I agree with that one

They fucking push. Get an m3

They are perhaps more tightly packaged and integrated than most cars. Think over-engineering and obsessively efficient use of space, insomuch as to create extra steps for disassembly and maintenance operations. It’s a trade off that one either values or does not

These are all mostly just Audi probs



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[Rs6NJguy]

Truth be told, when I mentioned to my friend who owns a mechanic shop that I was gonna buy the RS6 I have now, he pretty much said this

"you're mechanically inclined and can fix cars, so this wont be AS rough for your wallet as it is your knuckles"

[2.ohhh]

Definitely be mechanically inclined if you want to own one of these...
My son and I picked up a 2003 A6 2.7 sedan 6 speed for a set of wheels...did a lot of work on that one as a trial.
We now own an RS6 and had to replace the suction jet pump...$50 part, $1500+ in labor (if we couldn't do it ourselves and had to pay up).
Not a hard project after some research and common sense thinking...

Just drove it tonight on a nice cool clear evening after installing a new supension yesterday....

[jbain2]

The idea of being mechanically inclined if you are going to own a 15-20 year old car makes sense at baseline. Throw in Audi over-engineering and it’s a must. Once you get familiar with the platform and all the subtleties it’s less daunting. However I’ve found that these cars are definitely prone to ghosts for sure.

Have a second car to drive.


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[C5S6]

The idea of being mechanically inclined if you are going to own a 15-20 year old car makes sense at baseline. Throw in Audi over-engineering and it’s a must. Once you get familiar with the platform and all the subtleties it’s less daunting. However I’ve found that these cars are definitely prone to ghosts for sure.

Have a second car to drive.


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Don't forget to stock up on special tools.

I've had x4 C5's over the past 15 years and thanks to spare cars and forums like these, I've been able to repair/replace anything that has gone wrong.
The most involved was the clutch 2x (40k apart) in the sedan. I elected to drop the trans only both times.
I've had the S6 since 2008 and it has by far been the most reliable of any in the platform (read: had the least go wrong).

[jolio1994]

My 1 rule to anything with 01e or 0a3 trans is to pull the engine/trans out together. Unless it's an AAN or 7a, I'd much rather undo the 20 bolts for the axles/driveshaft and linkage rather than fight for those bellhousing bolts.

[S/RConcepts]

Man, some good stuff in here so far! I'll add what is probably my best bit of advice to someone new:

When you're trying to fix your car, and you stumble upon other things that are wrong or something else breaks: Don't lose heart. These cars are 15-20 years old now, and most are probably on owner 4-5 at least. That's an awful lot of deferred maintenance, potential shoddy repairs previously, and brittle heat-cycled plastic to think about. With ANY car this age, not just Audis, things WILL break and things WILL NOT go as planned sometimes. That doesn't mean that all Audis are just POS's, and most often it's not even the car's fault to begin with- it was someone who either didn't do something they needed to or they did a repair improperly. Sadly, most times a new C5 owner will experience a few parts failures and chalk these cars up to being bad to begin with, when that's simply not the case. As enthusiasts, we chose these cars out of everything else out there because they checked all the right boxes for us, not because they're an appliance that never needs to be serviced and then disposed of.
ok, end of small manifesto

[S/RConcepts]

Just thought of a couple more things:

-When servicing the ZF transmissions, always use a ZF filter and pan gasket. The aftermarket gaskets are known for leakage and poor fitment, and the filters can cause irratic shifts and other problems. It's also a good idea to replace the valvebody housing that holds the pressure regulator, as the bore develops a wear ridge and causes the piston to stick, which starts exploding things.

-Check your sunroof and cowl drains often, often, often! String trimmer line works well here.

-On your next timing belt service, go ahead and replace the chain tensioner shoes. They're less than $15 and just snap on when installing them, and then you don't have to worry about the brittle plastic disintegrating and taking out your engine along with it.

-If you're looking for reliability, the most reliable engines are the timing belt 2.8L and 4.2L naturally aspirated variants. These are among the most reliable engines Audi has ever made. By some weird twist of fate, I have found that the 4.2 is easier to work on than the 2.8... I have no idea why.

-Periodically check the wiring where it routes into the doors for chafing/breakage, especially on a new-to-you C5. This is a big cause of electrical weirdness when it comes to windows, door locks, sound system, etc. Really easy to do, takes about 20 minutes to check all 4.

[rah253]

Thanks to S/Rconcepts for starting this, love this thread, lots of good ideas and suggestions for sure. I currently own two C5, a 2002 Allroad 2.7T 6speed and an RS6.

mine opinion, somewhat repetitive of others:

Know what you are getting into
Be patient while working on it, and if you are not, learn to be.
The right tools for the right jobs, that cannot be emphasized enough
Stay away from chain driven 4.2 (even so i don't think they are in the C5 chassis are they?) , i talk from a B6 S4 experience point of view.
If cared for properly, i think they still are some of the best cars on the road to this day.
Your door sensors will go out at some point on one of them, that just the way it goes.
Don't know if it's just mine, but at least the 2.7T love to have the coil packs replaced every 35 to 40K or so, and it can explain a lot of symptoms/check engine lights
Lastly, the RS6 is still worth the pain and suffering no matter what, one of favorite car ever and favorite ever owned.

[V1nny]

..
Stay away from chain driven 4.2 (even so i don't think they are in the C5 chassis are they?) , i talk from a B6 S4 experience point of view.
...

chain 4.2 is in 2003-2005 Allroad. There few Allroads that have chain replaced with late revision RS4 parts, and have supercharger added, both reliable and fast cars.

[idotavant]

Be aware of the chain 4.2 issue, but don’t altogether avoid it


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[rollerton]

I'd say right up near the top of any advice I'd give anyone considering owning any German car of the C5 era - BUY or otherwise always have access to an OBD device.

The importance of being able to scan and research any problem from small to large is really the first thing anyone needs to know. Even if you don't really have the skills to do the repairs yourself, the value of just educating yourself on the systems of these cars and how they work can not be overstated.
For the best value check the classifieds/ MISC sections for an older Ross Tech interface that isn't limited by # of VINs.

But don't bother owning one of these cars without the most important tool.

[rah253]

chain 4.2 is in 2003-2005 Allroad. There few Allroads that have chain replaced with late revision RS4 parts, and have supercharger added, both reliable and fast cars.

Gotcha, i wasn't sure on that, mine is belt driven so i didn't know if they kept that trend with the Allroad. I bet they are fast with the supercharger. I loved my Imola B6 S4 Avant but the guides and chains were knocking and i didn't have the time and money then to take care of it. Wish i kept it.

[ShelbyM3]

-On your next timing belt service, go ahead and replace the chain tensioner shoes. They're less than $15 and just snap on when installing them, and then you don't have to worry about the brittle plastic disintegrating and taking out your engine along with it.

Where’d you source these at?


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[S/RConcepts]

Where’d you source these at?


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They can be found on eBay. When it comes to chain tensioners or the shoes on C5s, any aftermarket ones you find are basically all from the same Chinese factory... there used to be some that were made in the EU, but I believe they aren't available anymore. Don't be scared of the Chinese stuff though, it's actually of pretty good quality in this instance.

[Radvis]

A few things I learned when owning 2.4 165hp audi. I like mine a lot, altough there are a lot of problems, I try to be patient and only fix one thing at a time.
-v6 engines like to leak oil.
-the abs module has troubles.
-like others said it likes to get water inside and a diagnostics tool/cable is almost a must.
-sometimes there are normal audis and then there is few, (mine is one of the few), where i cant find parts by the code in any junkyard or sometimes even in the internet.
It is a wonderful car, altough sometimes a money pit, but when everything is in order, it's just lovely to drive.

[idotavant]

The tight and efficient packaging of the car leads to taking a lot of parts off and perhaps taking care of multiple problems or preventative work simultaneously

Currently taking care of exhaust leak at down/flex pipe and also the steering rack. Not thrilled about either leaking, but at least one makes the other easier to get to. This phenomena is not exclusive to c5 or Audi, but perhaps more common in them


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[S/RConcepts]

I was thinking of this tread today, and thought it deserved a bump and some fresh blood. So to new and old members, what's something new you've learned these past couple of years? A couple from me:

-One good C5 deserves another. I've often said that these cars are like aircooled VW's- they come in sets. Have at least one as a toy, and at least one other as a daily driver... you'll appreciate both of them even more.
-Haste makes waste: if you're working on one of these, make sure to take your time to do it right. It's all too easy to want to finish something as quickly as possible, however you'll most likely end up doing the job twice for some stupid oversight.
-Invest in a copy of the factory service manual! They can be gotten in a digital version for cheap, and even if you don't turn wrenches yourself it will pay off the first time you need it.

[Caddylack]

I'm still early in the game with my 2.7T, but...

I have trouble using the words "unreliable" or "expensive" to describe these cars. Not only are these terms extremely relative, but also almost entirely subjective, in that it depends on who you are and what you intend to do with the car.

If you are the type of person who does their own work and keeps up with all maintenance, these cars rock. The over-engineering is marvelous, and they are simply built better than most cars.

If you are looking for cheap transportation that can be easily maintained by the mechanic down the street who wears overalls with no shirt underneath, DO NOT buy one of these cars.

People love to talk about the cost or labor associated with a timing job, but fail to consider the bigger picture. A well-maintained C5 will last virtually forever, both structurally and mechanically. Over the long term, I don't think it's a bad investment, especially when compared to newer vehicles with a higher initial purchase price. Audi's OEM parts will generally not need to be replaced more than once, and of course you always have the option of using cheapo China parts like every other car owner does. I have easy access to local junkyards, so I don't live in fear.

Keep in mind just how few cars you can actually buy with AWD and a manual trans. Then, how many have an engine that can make 500 wheel torque in stock form? If you want an all-weather sports car with a manual trans, you only have a few options. My C5 build won't cost any more than a WRX or Evo build, and the Torsen setup in the C5 is as solid as any AWD system.

Even if we are talking about an automatic, it isn't fair to compare a C5 to a Toyota Camry. When you buy a C5, you're just getting more car.

Bottom line: If maintenance isn't your thing, don't sign up for the program. If maintenance is your thing, you will be rewarded.

[C5S6]

If you are the type of person who does their own work and keeps up with all maintenance, these cars rock. The over-engineering is marvelous, and they are simply built better than most cars.

This is pretty accurate. I've owned/maintained x4 C5's since 2004. The 2 we still have in the fleet have been around since 2013 (A6) & 2008 (S6). The S6 has been the least needy of the bunch & the A6 the most - but only because I had to sort out everything the PO neglected, or his mechanic(s) half-assed along the road of discovery.

Last issue with the A6 was the alternator, which made it 189k - that was 2 years ago.
Last issue with the S6 was SAI motor failure in mid 2016. I did the 6 speed swap last year because I wanted it, not because the trans failed. I was actually able to recoup about 1/2 the swap cost by selling the automatic.

[Jawsman2]

Either know how to wrench or you'll learn quickly...
Plan on a manual swap.
You'll reverse engineer the whole car in a year of ownership, embrace that.
It's expensive to get parts, and some stuff just isn't available anymore. Have a parts car handy.

[Caddylack]

You'll reverse engineer the whole car in a year of ownership, embrace that.

Best quote so far.

[Caddylack]

I was going to post about this in my thread, but it fits here:

Out of the 4 axle shafts on my car, 1 of them has a nice black finish, and the other 3 are rusty. It would be rational to assume that the rusty axles were original, but... Welcome to Audi!

The OEM axle shafts on these cars are made of high quality metal that is extremely resistant to corrosion. Replacement axles will begin to rust very quickly. For reference, replacement axles will also usually be smaller in diameter than OEM shafts.

I have extensive maintenance records for my car dating back to the original purchase when the car was under warranty. As soon as the warranty expired, the car was maintained at independent shops. Almost every single invoice that I have from an independent shop says something about the axle shafts needing replacement. BE SKEPTICAL! I believe that this is a huge cash grab for independent shops. OEM core axles are actually worth more than the cost of a brand new cheap axle. So, the shop gets to sell you a marked-up cheap axle + labor, and then they get to keep your core and turn around and sell it.

In most cases, you should be able to keep your OEM shafts and just rebuild/replace the CV's. At the very least, never let a shop steal your core axles! You have the legal right to keep your old parts, if you choose.

[arjun90]

Speaking of axles, if you are ever in the need to replace them, go for Raxles :)

[Caddylack]

Speaking of axles, if you are ever in the need to replace them, go for Raxles :)

This is true, BUT:

Raxles was actually "involved" in me first learning about these axles. It's important to note that Raxles will not sell you an axle without a core exchange, for any price. The first core OEM axle that I sold was to a forum member who was going to send it in to Raxles.

This got me wondering how difficult it would be for me (or anyone) to produce a NEW axle shaft that was OEM quality or better. It's just a metal shaft, right? But, that's a topic for another thread.

[V1nny]

Scotty at Advanced Automotion sold me heavy-duty front axles, better than stock, years ago, still driving like crazy on them over potholes :-)
https://advancedautomotion.com/shop/...roducts_id/300