Liqui-Moly experience, changing back to Motul

[Ape Factory]

I've used Motul since day one of ownership of my RS5 and had been using the Specific 502 00 5w-40 and the X-Clean 5w-40. I change my oil about every 5K miles.

My last oil change I decided to make a switch to Liqui-Moly, specifically the 4100 Top Tech 5w40. Car ran fine, engine was just as quiet overall but my oil consumption went from zero to about 1 liter in 5,000 miles. With Motul, I'd had virtually zero oil consumption with the exact same driving habits. The oil gauge never really moved.

I decided to switch back to Motul, this time the X-cess 8100 5w40. I did a ton of research and spent quite a bit of time on the "Bob the oil guy" web page until acronyms made my head explode and left me with a less clear path to well, clarity. I also read about Motul loosing a lawsuit in Europe recently as some of their formulations were using group III oils and not true group IV synthetics. I'm not sure if the 8100 falls into that category but from what I understand, it's a higher "grade" than even the Specific.

In the end, I decided my prior experience of very little oil consumption with the Motul pushed me back in their direction after looking at a host of options from Pennzoil, Castrol (OEM), Mobil 1, Redline, etc...pouring over all their specs and taking price into consideration. I decided to try the X-cess as it has good viscosity at 100C, a Noack rating just below 10% and a high VI. I don't care much about winter performance as it doesn't get super cold here.

My next oil change, I'm going to try the Motul Sport 5W40 which basically sits between the 8100 line and the 300V line. It'll work in a road-driven vehicle over an extended interval unlike the 300V and it's a true Ester base. But the best part is the Nowak rating is only 4.7% and it has a very slightly higher VI and viscosity at 100C. I think this is the big detriment to the OEM Castrol which seems to have a higher Nowak rating which doesn't help when it comes to carbon buildup.

Tech sheets for the various oils mentioned above;
https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000...40-38.0-en.pdf
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1492016155
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1303836523
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1492017750

[2by2handsofblue]

I've used Motul since day one of ownership of my RS5 and had been using the Specific 502 00 5w-40 and the X-Clean 5w-40. I change my oil about every 5K miles.

My last oil change I decided to make a switch to Liqui-Moly, specifically the 4100 Top Tech 5w40. Car ran fine, engine was just as quiet overall but my oil consumption went from zero to about 1 liter in 5,000 miles. With Motul, I'd had virtually zero oil consumption with the exact same driving habits. The oil gauge never really moved.

I decided to switch back to Motul, this time the X-cess 8100 5w40. I did a ton of research and spent quite a bit of time on the "Bob the oil guy" web page until acronyms made my head explode and left me with a less clear path to well, clarity. I also read about Motul loosing a lawsuit in Europe recently as some of their formulations were using group III oils and not true group IV synthetics. I'm not sure if the 8100 falls into that category but from what I understand, it's a higher "grade" than even the Specific.

In the end, I decided my prior experience of very little oil consumption with the Motul pushed me back in their direction after looking at a host of options from Pennzoil, Castrol (OEM), Mobil 1, Redline, etc...pouring over all their specs and taking price into consideration. I decided to try the X-cess as it has good viscosity at 100C, a Noack rating just below 10% and a high VI. I don't care much about winter performance as it doesn't get super cold here.

My next oil change, I'm going to try the Motul Sport 5W40 which basically sits between the 8100 line and the 300V line. It'll work in a road-driven vehicle over an extended interval unlike the 300V and it's a true Ester base. But the best part is the Nowak rating is only 4.7% and it has a very slightly higher VI and viscosity at 100C. I think this is the big detriment to the OEM Castrol which seems to have a higher Nowak rating which doesn't help when it comes to carbon buildup.

Tech sheets for the various oils mentioned above;
https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000...40-38.0-en.pdf
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1492016155
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1303836523
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1492017750

I'm suprised liqui moly didnt work out.
I plan on using LM for my next oil change.


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[weagle1856]

I've had the exact same experience. I've always used either Motul 8100 xcess, or the Specific. I tried liquimoly toptec, it was either the yellow, or orange label (One had the VW approval I was looking for. ) for a couple of intervals, and I burned oil for the first time. About the same rate you mentioned. Now I just use xcess. It works perfect. It consistently gets good reviews. I haven't seen anything bad from any sample testing where people had theirs analyzed.

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[2by2handsofblue]

What about royal purple, amsoil and redline brand? I hear these are good oil.

And also I found this interesting about type category that these oils are based.

He is a amsoil dealer.

https://youtu.be/NCT24nozMYM

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[BuyTheWarranty]

Ditto on the LiquiMoly.

RS5 burned no oil on dealer MOTUL. Switched to LiquiMoly this time, burning about 0.5litre every 4000kms it seems.

Could be that or the Stage 2 😬

[Ape Factory]

I considered the extra consumption was maybe related to the car wearing with age or the fact I'm living more at the higher end of the tach which is why I'm switching back. A less than perfect PCV system can cause more oil consumption. When I drained my oil yesterday, it was close to the low mark. If you divided up the low to high gauge, I'd say it was at 2 out of 10. I drained about 9 liters using the extraction method. I full change with a full sump is 9.7 liters.

The Redline Euro blend looks really good too but at $12.95 a quart, I decided to give it a pass this round as I did Motul's Sport 5w40 as it cost about the same. I used to be a big Royal Purple guy as their oils worked really well in my high hp big single turbo RX7 (rotary) but over the years, they've reformulated their products, as many have, and they don't have the same specs any longer. I haven't tried Amsoil. Some of Motul's stuff has been reformulated as well but the X-cess seems to be identical. Wish the Nowak rating was a bit lower though.

[JamesRS5]

The dealership here fills her up with Mobil 1 and I'm pretty sure it's a 0W-40 which I thought seemed a little thin for our temperatures, we don't really need a 0 weight oil for cold starting but that said, it doesn't burn any oil between services so it seems like it's working.

[2by2handsofblue]

I considered the extra consumption was maybe related to the car wearing with age or the fact I'm living more at the higher end of the tach which is why I'm switching back. A less than perfect PCV system can cause more oil consumption. When I drained my oil yesterday, it was close to the low mark. If you divided up the low to high gauge, I'd say it was at 2 out of 10. I drained about 9 liters using the extraction method. I full change with a full sump is 9.7 liters.

The Redline Euro blend looks really good too but at $12.95 a quart, I decided to give it a pass this round as I did Motul's Sport 5w40 as it cost about the same. I used to be a big Royal Purple guy as their oils worked really well in my high hp big single turbo RX7 (rotary) but over the years, they've reformulated their products, as many have, and they don't have the same specs any longer. I haven't tried Amsoil. Some of Motul's stuff has been reformulated as well but the X-cess seems to be identical. Wish the Nowak rating was a bit lower though.

That's a hefty price for redline brand. Maybe its cause they are a definite category 4.

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[AWDfreak]

I've used Motul since day one of ownership of my RS5 and had been using the Specific 502 00 5w-40 and the X-Clean 5w-40. I change my oil about every 5K miles.

My last oil change I decided to make a switch to Liqui-Moly, specifically the 4100 Top Tech 5w40. Car ran fine, engine was just as quiet overall but my oil consumption went from zero to about 1 liter in 5,000 miles. With Motul, I'd had virtually zero oil consumption with the exact same driving habits. The oil gauge never really moved.

I decided to switch back to Motul, this time the X-cess 8100 5w40. I did a ton of research and spent quite a bit of time on the "Bob the oil guy" web page until acronyms made my head explode and left me with a less clear path to well, clarity. I also read about Motul loosing a lawsuit in Europe recently as some of their formulations were using group III oils and not true group IV synthetics. I'm not sure if the 8100 falls into that category but from what I understand, it's a higher "grade" than even the Specific.

In the end, I decided my prior experience of very little oil consumption with the Motul pushed me back in their direction after looking at a host of options from Pennzoil, Castrol (OEM), Mobil 1, Redline, etc...pouring over all their specs and taking price into consideration. I decided to try the X-cess as it has good viscosity at 100C, a Noack rating just below 10% and a high VI. I don't care much about winter performance as it doesn't get super cold here.

My next oil change, I'm going to try the Motul Sport 5W40 which basically sits between the 8100 line and the 300V line. It'll work in a road-driven vehicle over an extended interval unlike the 300V and it's a true Ester base. But the best part is the Nowak rating is only 4.7% and it has a very slightly higher VI and viscosity at 100C. I think this is the big detriment to the OEM Castrol which seems to have a higher Nowak rating which doesn't help when it comes to carbon buildup.

Tech sheets for the various oils mentioned above;
https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000...40-38.0-en.pdf
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1492016155
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1303836523
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1492017750

Ape, I found the same--much lower oil consumption with Motul 8100. Was originally using Castrol, but when it got hard to find locally, I switched to Mobil 1 for a couple of years. Oil consumption increased significantly forcing me to add oil between 5k mile changes. After research, I switched to Motul--consumption is much lower and there is no need to add oil between changes. Oil consumption is the not the only criteria for good oil, but I think it is a good indicator.

[Overbias]

Curious to know which Motul 8100 others are using. There seem to be a few X-cess X-clean etc

Used Liqui Moli for my last change and have had some consumption so thinking about switching.


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[Ape Factory]

I used X-Clean prior to switching to Liqui-Moly but I'm now using X-cess.

[2by2handsofblue]

Ape, I found the same--much lower oil consumption with Motul 8100. Was originally using Castrol, but when it got hard to find locally, I switched to Mobil 1 for a couple of years. Oil consumption increased significantly forcing me to add oil between 5k mile changes. After research, I switched to Motul--consumption is much lower and there is no need to add oil between changes. Oil consumption is the not the only criteria for good oil, but I think it is a good indicator.

Were u having oil consumption with Castrol?

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[greenturbo]

I ran motul for this run, it ate a quart of oil. First time ever... Back to basics. My car is perfectly fine on M1 and eats nothing on that

[Ape Factory]

Was that with the Mobil 0W40?

There is a new version called Mobil 1 FS 0w40. I remember what my big issue was with Mobil 1. The viscosity at 100C was equivalent to a 30W oil, not a true 40W but it had a very high VI at 186 which is good. Plus you can pick it up at Walmart for far less than Motul or any of the other German brands.
https://www.mobil.com/English-US/Pas...obil-1-FS-0W40

[2by2handsofblue]

I guess it seems depends on the car or driving style. Combo of different factors

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[Ape Factory]

One more thing and something to look for; the "standard" non-European Formula (FS) Mobil 1 0w40 is a different oil which meets or exceeds VW 502 00 but is not approved for 502 00. May mean they didn't seek certification or it didn't meet the criteria. The FS formula IS approved for 502 00 specification but has a lower viscosity at 100C and a lower VI which is interesting.
Spec sheet for the non-FS version of 0w40: http://www.ulei-mobil.ro/pdf/MobilAu...W-40%20pds.pdf

[Ape Factory]

I guess it seems depends on the car or driving style. Combo of different factors

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Definitely. The consumption could be far different on an RS5 with a different piston ring spec/package vs. say a supercharged S5 3.0T which also has much lower redline, piston cooling jets, etc.

[2by2handsofblue]

So is mobile 1 a good to use?
Is it hard to find 100% synthetic 5w40 weight oil of mobile 1?
I'm reading some of the comments and some are saying it's hard to find it

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[2by2handsofblue]

Definitely. The consumption could be far different on an RS5 with a different piston ring spec/package vs. say a supercharged S5 3.0T which also has much lower redline, piston cooling jets, etc.

Is it ok for me to share the link that u sent me through PM. About the crash bar


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[shortgamewizard]

So is mobile 1 a good to use?
Is it hard to find 100% synthetic 5w40 weight oil of mobile 1?
I'm reading some of the comments and some are saying it's hard to find it

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Hey 2by2, my daily driver is a '98 Z/28, have used Mobil1 since day 1. I will hit 300,000 next month, have never had 1
engine problem, ever! I guess not really applicable when talking about the RS5, I have used Moly in my RS, but I think
M1 is a good oil.

[Ape Factory]

Make sure if you try Mobil 1 it’s the FS version. Says European cars and has FS on packaging. I’ll try it my next oil change.

[2by2handsofblue]

Make sure if you try Mobil 1 it’s the FS version. Says European cars and has FS on packaging. I’ll try it my next oil change.

Keep us updated. I'm curious

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[2by2handsofblue]

Why I'd mobile 1 fs so hard to find? I was doing a search and cant seem to find 1 near me

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[Yoda1]

I’ve switched from Pento High performance to M1 European Formula FS and noticed a slight increase in oil consumption, about 1/4th a Qt in 3000/3500 miles. I plan on using M1 for next oil change until I use up the stock I have. One question though, I have both M1 FS and older non FS and plan on mixing them. Not sure if mixing the 2 formulas of M1 is a problem? Both European formulas.

[Ape Factory]

Probably not a problem. I'm guessing the FS version has less sulfides and a lower Nowak rating. Mobil says the non FS meets or exceeds 502 00 while the FS version is actually certified/approved 502 00.

[Yoda1]

Good info. Certified definitely sounds better than "meet or exceed" to me :)

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[Ape Factory]

A lot of the brands use that terminology and the general public just assumes it'll work. And they're mostly right. When it's a certified and or approved oil for a certain specification, they've actually gone to the manufacturer and received that certification. I'm sure there's some cost in doing it that way and the oil companies often know the oil does meet or exceed a particular standard. If your car is under warranty and you have engine failure, they'll want to know if you used the certified/approved oil. If you just used the meets/exceeds, the warranty won't be honored.

You'll find many of the "racing" oils aren't certified for anything but will meet "standards" like API (American Petroleum Institute) even though it may contain no petroleum products. They now have groupings which denote what the majority of the oil is made from. Just because it says full synthetic, doesn't mean it isn't oil/petroleum based. Modified hydrocarbons are now classified as Group III and can be marketed as full synthetic. Group IV is generally a PAO base and it can even start out as vegetable oil. Group V are generally made out of Esters, synthesized alcohols condensed with acids. Almost all of the "racing" oils are Group V and ester based, including Motul Sport 5w40 and their 300V line.

One individual commented that if you're shopping for a "full synthetic" oil and it has the API Certified gold medallion on the front, it's not a true synthetic (Ester or PAO based) and is a Group III modified synthetic. If the synthetic oil isn't pegroleum based, there's nothing for them to approve as it's not a petroleum product. It sounds logical but I'm not sure that's 100% true.

[2by2handsofblue]

A lot of the brands use that terminology and the general public just assumes it'll work. And they're mostly right. When it's a certified and or approved oil for a certain specification, they've actually gone to the manufacturer and received that certification. I'm sure there's some cost in doing it that way and the oil companies often know the oil does meet or exceed a particular standard. If your car is under warranty and you have engine failure, they'll want to know if you used the certified/approved oil. If you just used the meets/exceeds, the warranty won't be honored.

You'll find many of the "racing" oils aren't certified for anything but will meet "standards" like API (American Petroleum Institute) even though it may contain no petroleum products. They now have groupings which denote what the majority of the oil is made from. Just because it says full synthetic, doesn't mean it isn't oil/petroleum based. Modified hydrocarbons are now classified as Group III and can be marketed as full synthetic. Group IV is generally a PAO base and it can even start out as vegetable oil. Group V are generally made out of Esters, synthesized alcohols condensed with acids. Almost all of the "racing" oils are Group V and ester based, including Motul Sport 5w40 and their 300V line.

One individual commented that if you're shopping for a "full synthetic" oil and it has the API Certified gold medallion on the front, it's not a true synthetic (Ester or PAO based) and is a Group III modified synthetic. If the synthetic oil isn't pegroleum based, there's nothing for them to approve as it's not a petroleum product. It sounds logical but I'm not sure that's 100% true.

So it should say 100% full synthetic vs full synthetic.

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[Ape Factory]

Even if it says that, there's no guarantee it'll be a Group IV or Group V. More than likely, it's a Group III mixed with a Group IV or Group V. If it's a true synthetic outside of the Mobil 1/Castrol court ruling, then it'll actually say 100% Ester or PAO. Motul, Redline, Amsoil and a number of others make full synthetics that are mostly Group IV or Group V.

If you look at the packaging on the Motul Sport 5w40, it actually says 100% ester. The Mobil1/Castrol ruling was a result of those companies convincing the court that their modified hydrocarbons were changed enough to actually call them synthetic. That's when all the confusion started. Really muddies the waters. My father is a chemical engineer and worked in the Petroleum industry for most of his career and even he gets a bit confused by some of the labels and descriptions. I'm still learning myself honestly, just lots of contradictory or incomplete data out there. You'll notice a lot of the spec sheets often don't feature all of the same test data or it's incomplete. Nowak ratings are of particular interest to us as it measures the percentage of evaporation over time. The lower the percentage, the better. But most manufacturers don't include this data on any of their products. Sometimes they do on one or two but not others. Too many "standards" and too many lobbyists, LOL.

[Overbias]

Related question, I am just about to do an oil change, I am going to use Liqui Moli again, second change in my ownership so I figure, this thread notwithstanding, I want to complete another change and analyze the outcome. I will be sending my oil to Blackstone for analysis and am happy to report back here. I was considering using LM's 2037 Proline Engine Flush when I do this change. In the past 6 months I have had many issues with my cars fuel systems and so there have been many 'too rich' stalling events. I imagine that there could be a lot of fuel related buildup, car is almost at 80k miles as well. Anyone have any experience with this product or others like it? I am sticking with LM as I figure they probably know how to engineer an engine flush for their own oils. Currently LM in there now.

[2by2handsofblue]

Related question, I am just about to do an oil change, I am going to use Liqui Moli again, second change in my ownership so I figure, this thread notwithstanding, I want to complete another change and analyze the outcome. I will be sending my oil to Blackstone for analysis and am happy to report back here. I was considering using LM's 2037 Proline Engine Flush when I do this change. In the past 6 months I have had many issues with my cars fuel systems and so there have been many 'too rich' stalling events. I imagine that there could be a lot of fuel related buildup, car is almost at 80k miles as well. Anyone have any experience with this product or others like it? I am sticking with LM as I figure they probably know how to engineer an engine flush for their own oils. Currently LM in there now.

Why not try amsoil or the purple stuff

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[Overbias]

Are there any concerns about doing an engine flush in general? Is anyone else’s standard practice?


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[JamesRS5]

Are there any concerns about doing an engine flush in general? Is anyone else’s standard practice?

I've never liked using engine flush unless you can guarantee there will be none remaining in the sump when you fill with fresh oil.

[AWDfreak]

Were u having oil consumption with Castrol?

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With Castrol 5w40 syn, about 1/2-2/3 quart per 5k miles. With Mobil-1 0w40, about 1 quart per 5k miles (typically added oil before 5k). With Motul 5w40 8100, virtually no measurable consumption, and this last 5k miles was during hot weather over the summer. I'm sticking with Motul. (I currently have about 50k miles on the car now.)

[6SpeedS4]

My experience with liqui-moly is similar although in a B8.5 S4. Biggest change when I switched to Motul specific was my MPG increased rather substantially. Cant comment as to why.

Curious about motul sport, will likely try on next change.

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[6SpeedS4]

Fyi - Amazon has motul sport for $55 for 5 Litres.

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[MpDzik]

Does anyone know what is the difference between Motul X-Clean+ and Motul Specific oils and which one is better for the RS5's CFSA engine? I can see that they are both recommended on Motul's website for the RS5 (https://www.motul.com/fr/en/lubrican...282012-2016%29). I am planning to switch to Motul (from stock Castrol) at the next oil change and I'm not sure which one to buy.

[greenturbo]

...

[Ape Factory]

Does anyone know what is the difference between Motul X-Clean+ and Motul Specific oils and which one is better for the RS5's CFSA engine? I can see that they are both recommended on Motul's website for the RS5 (https://www.motul.com/fr/en/lubrican...282012-2016%29). I am planning to switch to Motul (from stock Castrol) at the next oil change and I'm not sure which one to buy.

Logic says to go with the Specific as it's designed for a narrower specification whereas the X-Clean meets a broader range of criteria and may be a compromise. Funny part is it appears Specific is no longer being offered or recommended on the Motul site. In which case I'd go with the Motul Sport which has a much higher viscosity index. Dunno if the Specific is being reformulated or what but it's no longer listed on Motul's site.

[MpDzik]

Logic says to go with the Specific as it's designed for a narrower specification whereas the X-Clean meets a broader range of criteria and may be a compromise. Funny part is it appears Specific is no longer being offered or recommended on the Motul site. In which case I'd go with the Motul Sport which has a much higher viscosity index. Dunno if the Specific is being reformulated or what but it's no longer listed on Motul's site.

Thanks Ape. Maybe branding is different in the US compared to the EU, as I can definitely see Motul Specific recommended in the link from my previous post. I will stick with Specific in that case.

I have one more question. How often do you top up oil in your RS5? I'm wondering whether I should top up often (like once a month) to keep it near the max level on the oil sensor in MMI at all times or whether is it ok to wait until the level drops near the min level?