Camshaft cradle sealant

[texadelphia]

I replaced my camshaft cradle yesterday and was just looking at some things to make sure I did everything right. I was looking at a couple different things showing the proper location to put the camshaft cradle sealant and there seems to be some conflicting information.

Here's a picture I found from a workshop manual. It's hard to make out exactly which lines are sealant lines:

sealant3.jpeg

Here's a capture from one video I found. Looks like he missed the bolt holes at the back of the girdle:

sealant1.jpg

Here's a picture from another video I found. Looks like he filled in a bunch of grooves that the shop manual doesn't indicate:

sealant2_2.jpeg

Anyone have any definitive info on this?

Also, I used the Dirko grey sealant. I didn't remove any of the sealant that oozed out when I torqued it down. Should I have done this so it doesn't fall off and clog something up?

[a4lownslow]

You need to use anaerobic sealant. I use permatex from orielly. Just like this IMG_5570.JPG


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[texadelphia]

You need to use anaerobic sealant. I use permatex from orielly. Just like this IMG_5570.JPG


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That's the same way I applied it. I used Dirko grey based on several recommendations. It's not anaerobic, which I understand is the stock application, but hopefully it holds up.

[a4lownslow]

That's the same way I applied it. I used Dirko grey based on several recommendations. It's not anaerobic, which I understand is the stock application, but hopefully it holds up.

The big thing with anaerobic is it will wash away with the oil, and won’t flake off like RTV and clog the pickup tube or oil galleys


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[texadelphia]

The big thing with anaerobic is it will wash away with the oil, and won’t flake off like RTV and clog the pickup tube or oil galleys


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Hmm. Maybe I should pull the valve cover off and pull out as much of the excess as I can. Would I need to put a new valve cover gasket on it since it's been torqued down even though there car hasn't been run yet?

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[Kevin C]

The valve cover gasket will be fine. It's really easy to over apply the sealant.

[texadelphia]

The valve cover gasket will be fine. It's really easy to over apply the sealant.

Just took the valve cover off and took all of this out. Probably best.IMG_20190915_170923240.jpeg

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[Theiceman]

Oh yeah. That was a disaster waiting to happen that would clog your pickup real nice.
Looks like you put way too much on. Less is better with this stuff.

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[texadelphia]

Oh yeah. That was a disaster waiting to happen that would clog your pickup real nice.
Looks like you put way too much on. Less is better with this stuff.

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Interesting. My bead was no bigger than this guy's.

https://youtu.be/Ob_zr9y1prE

Screenshot_20190915-195546.jpeg

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[Theiceman]

Hes a shade tree mechanic remember just like us. The audi robot puts almost none on as you are filling between two machined surfaces in the microns.


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[texadelphia]

Hes a shade tree mechanic remember just like us. The audi robot puts almost none on as you are filling between two machined surfaces in the microns.


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Sure, I was just using that to illustrate what I did. Spec must be a bead just big enough to fill the groove in the bottom of the cradle.

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[texadelphia]

This kind of stuff is what freaks me out about working on my car. No matter how many things I read there's always some detail that doesn't get conveyed that can have catastrophic consequences.

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[texadelphia]

Oh God, what have I done?

https://youtu.be/R_eBp2u0jUw

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[canadianA4B7]

No one seems to have mentioned how important using anaerobic sealant actually is. Op if your sealant is not anaerobic that stuff will not properly “cure” (anaerobic does not completely harden many others do) this will cause you negative side effects.

[Theiceman]

I've heard the term.dirko used before on this and other forums. But I'm not sure what it is or why people use it.
What you want is a flange sealant for this application.
I used loctite 574 left over from another build.

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[texadelphia]

If you see it in enough posts and Youtube videos, then it's easy to think it must be fine to use.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...for-Cam-Cradle

Also seems legit according to company's data sheet.

http://www.elring.com/fileadmin/Date...EN_12-2016.pdf

[Kevin C]

No oil passages on the cam cover to plug (the two passages have breaks between the sealing surface and the passage to allow the sealant to flow out), as long as you followed the diagram the only issue is getting the overhang stuff out to make sure it doesn't break off and lodge in the pump pickup. The OP did that and I don't see a problem with the job or the material. Anaerobics are nice since they only harden where needed ( absence of air). As far as the Dirco curing its an RTV, all it needs is some exposure to humidity to kick it off. It will cure properly and make a seal, even in a small gap. Pretty sure we had the humidity this weekend to get anything to cure.

Also, anaerobic only refers to the cure method, not the hardness of the cured material. Flange sealers come in different formulations. Loctite has a rigid and flexible versions of anaerobic flange sealant, either would work.

[Kevin C]

I just took a look at the picture of the sealant, there is sealant to the wrong side of the break, that could clog a passage. I would pull the girdle and redo it.Gasket2.JPG

[texadelphia]

I just took a look at the picture of the sealant, there is sealant to the wrong side of the break, that could clog a passage. I would pull the girdle and redo it.

Which picture are you talking about? None of the pictures I posted are of my actual application. They're pictures I've found of other people's work. I'm curious what you're talking about though so I can compare to what I did.

[Kevin C]

I added a picture.. My bad I thought is was yours!Gasket2.JPG

He definitely put material where it didn't belong and very close to an oil feed passage.

[texadelphia]

I added a picture.. My bad I thought is was yours!Gasket2.JPG

OK, yeah I didn't put sealant in that area. I put sealant in the same exact places as A4lownslow shown in post #2. There is some concern that the sealant I put in the correct place may have squeezed into the groove your're talking about when I torqued it down though.

Interestingly enough, I commented on the guy's video that the picture you were looking at came from about where he put sealant and he said he's done it the same way several times with no problems.

[texadelphia]

So is what you circled the oil passage and that line of sealant that shouldn't be there is a "break" designed to capture and evacuate sealant that might flow from that middle line of sealant that goes around the bolt hole? I was wondering if every groove in the girdle was a oil passage.

[Theiceman]

many of the grooves are called " reliefs" as Kevin points out they are escape passages for sealant so it does not squeeze onto a bearing surface.. i cant get an up close detailed look at that area but it looks like you may have put sealant in a relief passage so then it would squeeze out into the bearing. or an oil feed channel.

[texadelphia]

So is what you circled the oil passage and that line of sealant that shouldn't be there is a "break" designed to capture and evacuate sealant that might flow from that middle line of sealant that goes around the bolt hole? I was wondering if every groove in the girdle was a oil passage.

In other words, are the green lines just sealant breaks and the yellow line an oil passage? I didn't put any sealant where there are green and yellow lines. Only where you see the red sealant in this picture.

girdle.jpeg

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[Theiceman]

yup looks that way .. the green lines are relief.. im not 100% about the yellow one but that sure looks like an oil feed line you have likely plugged if you put sealant in the relief.

- - - Updated - - -

In other words, are the green lines just sealant breaks and the yellow line an oil passage? I didn't put any sealant where there are green and yellow lines. Only where you see the red sealant in this picture.

girdle.jpeg

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you should use imgur links for pics like this .. the pics are much larger and allows us to view much more detail.

[texadelphia]

Is this better? I only put sealant where there is red sealant in this picture.

[Theiceman]

Yup.thats fine

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[longlivenacars]

This thread and another I came across make me more confident to use anaerobic sealant for the cam girdle and rear timing covers. What is the stock sealant out of curiosity?

Valve cover gaskets gonna buy as I don't think sealant a good idea.

Will be more clear once they are off, but in the picture two posts above, the anaerobic was spread like RTV style. There are grooves as mentioned, which I'll go heavier on, but is there and issue with rolling the whole surface even afterwards?

Volvo uses anaerobic on almost all engines for high heat machined surfaces, but not sure in this application how well anaerobic will 'clump and dry' in possibly deeper grooves that MAY be on the outer edges of the cam girdle?

[longlivenacars]

Sorry people, was tired and thought this was an old thread in the rs4 subform I had stumbled across. Anyways, answer will pretty much be the same so, thanks for any replies...

[Jayz691]

Sorry people, was tired and thought this was an old thread in the rs4 subform I had stumbled across. Anyways, answer will pretty much be the same so, thanks for any replies...

Yes, ya use anaerobic sealant for the cam girdle.

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[Theiceman]

do NOT go heavy anywhere. these are two machined surfaces which requires an anaerobic flange sealant .. you need VERY little to make the seal.

[Jayz691]

Like Iceman said, its 2 machined surfaces, with VERY minimal clearance. Anaerobic sealant is also very thin, not thick like silicone. A thin bead is all you need, but if a little squeezes out, it'll wash away with the oil. Cures in the "absence" of air.

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