C7 S6 High Idle with Code P0507

[madfella]

I’ve been dealing with this intermittent MIL P0507 and slightly high idle (950) for a few months now. Sometimes, at a stop and while in gear, the idle will rise to around 950 rpm and stay there until I start moving again or place the gear selector in neutral. Initially my local dealership diagnosed it as bad PCV valve. They also claim that they checked for any intake or vacuum leaks and didn’t find anything. I was literally a week away from taking it in and paying for the PCV replacement ($2100.00) when I received the extended warranty letter from Audi. Luckily, the PCV was replaced under warranty in June. Then a few weeks later, the high idle returns with a MIL. Code P0507 again. This time the shop diagnoses it as a bad bank 1 secondary O2 sensor. I got around to replacing it last week and yesterday, the high idle and MIL for P0507 come back. After months of exhaustive searching the only results are PCV valves and issues with older S6 models. I am thinking about maybe cleaning the throttle-body or replacing the throttle-body but other than that I am at a loss. Has anyone had a similar experience with this issue/code?IMG_2160.JPGIMG_2161.JPGIMG_1502.JPGIMG_2167.JPGIMG_2169.JPGIMG_2170.JPGIMG_2171.JPG

[gk1]

Based on what you have already done, signs point to throttle body/module as you said.
"Throttle Valve Control Module - J338-"
"Throttle valve operation occurs by an electric motor identified as EPC Throttle Drive - G186- located within the Throttle Valve Control Module - J338- ."

Testing:
CONNECT: Scan Tool.
• IGNITION: ON
• CHECK: throttle valve position closed:
• SPECIFIED VALUE: 3 – 25%
• DEPRESS: Accelerator pedal slowly to WOT while observing the percentage display. The percentage display must increase uniformly
• CHECK: throttle valve position at WOT:
• SPECIFIED VALUE: 84 – 97%
• IGNITION: OFF
– Was Value obtained?
-If "yes" checking wiring as condition may be intermittent

REMOVE: Throttle Valve Control Module -J338 - far enough so that the connector terminals are accessible.
• DISCONNECT: Throttle Valve Control Module - J338 - connector.
• IGNITION: ON
• CHECK: Throttle Valve Control Module - J338 - connector terminals 2 to 6 for voltage
• SPECIFIED VALUE: About 5.0 V
• IGNITION: OFF
– Was value obtained?

-If "yes" then... (This part would IMHO be hard as it requires testing ECM pins.)
REMOVE: Engine Control Module - J623- .
Refer to appropriate repair manual.
• CHECK: Throttle Valve Control Module - J338- connector terminal 1 to the Engine Control Module - J623- connector terminals T105 / 60.
• CHECK: Throttle Valve Control Module - J338- connector terminal 4 to the Engine Control Module - J623- connector terminals T105 / 61.
• SPECIFIED VALUE: 0.5 Ω (± 0.3 Ω)
-If "yes" Replace Throttle Valve Control Module J338 otherwise check wiring.

-If "no" from voltage check above...(Again, this part would IMHO be hard as it requires testing ECM pins.)
• REMOVE: Engine Control Module - J623- .Refer to appropriate repair manual.
• CHECK: Throttle Valve Control Module - J338- connector terminal 2 to the Engine Control Module - J623- connector T105 / 42.
• CHECK: Throttle Valve Control Module - J338- connector terminal 3 to the Engine Control Module - J623- connector T105 / 88.
• CHECK: Throttle Valve Control Module - J338- connector terminal 5 to the Engine Control Module - J623- connector T105 / 66.
• CHECK: Throttle Valve Control Module - J338- connector terminal 6 to the Engine Control Module - J623- connector T105 / 102.
• SPECIFIED VALUE: 0.5 Ω (± 0.3 Ω)
– Was value obtained?
-If "yes" Replace ECM J623!!!!!!!!! otherwise check wiring.

Maybe you can get a throttle body from a junkyard to at least see if it helps.
The cost new is $500-750. p/n 079133062L
Other than taking off the boost hoses it is not hard to replace.
Hope that helps.

[madfella]

Based on what you have already done, signs point to throttle body/module as you said.
[I]"Throttle Valve Control Module - J338-"
"Throttle valve operation occurs by an electric motor identified as EPC Throttle Drive - G186- located within the Throttle Valve Control Module - J338- ."

Thank you for the reply! Can I perform this with VCDS? If so, I will get started this weekend.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[gk1]

Thank you for the reply! Can I perform this with VCDS? If so, I will get started this weekend.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

Just the first part, the rest requires measuring voltages and resistances with a meter. Some at the ECM connector which may be difficult. (And you'd need to be careful not to fry any electronics in the process.(Disclaimer))
Basically it looks like if the VCDS part checks out and you are getting 5 Volts at the Throttle Control Module they have you check the wiring resistance from the Throttle Control Module to ECM and depending on what pins have certain resistances you'd ether replace the ECM!!!! or the Throttle Control Module.

[madfella]

Ok, thanks again!


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[mrdouble99]

i got this fault to when i scan with vcds, but never seen the EPC light comes on.

My car is creeping when coming to a stop, like i was able to press the gas when braking and the rpm raise to 1200rpm when using the ACC, but not all the time

[madfella]

Just the first part, the rest requires measuring voltages and resistances with a meter. Some at the ECM connector which may be difficult. (And you'd need to be careful not to fry any electronics in the process.(Disclaimer))
Basically it looks like if the VCDS part checks out and you are getting 5 Volts at the Throttle Control Module they have you check the wiring resistance from the Throttle Control Module to ECM and depending on what pins have certain resistances you'd ether replace the ECM!!!! or the Throttle Control Module.

According to VCDS the throttle body is fine. Would you happen to have a part number for the ECU J623? When I search for it there are a lot of options.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[gk1]

According to VCDS the throttle body is fine. Would you happen to have a part number for the ECU J623? When I search for it there are a lot of options.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

It would be another VIN specific item best to get that information from the dealership. It will also require coding etc. I would not replace it unless it was an absolute last resort and it had already passed through several professionals diagnosis and they all came back with "replace the ECM". It is over $1000 part and AFAIK only replaceable by the dealer.
Did you get no voltage at Throttle Valve Control Module - J338 - connector terminals 2 to 6 ?

[madfella]

It would be another VIN specific item best to get that information from the dealership. It will also require coding etc. I would not replace it unless it was an absolute last resort and it had already passed through several professionals diagnosis and they all came back with "replace the ECM". It is over $1000 part and AFAIK only replaceable by the dealer.
Did you get no voltage at Throttle Valve Control Module - J338 - connector terminals 2 to 6 ?

Ok, thanks again. I’ll be running that text next. Heading to buy a multimeter now.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[madfella]

It would be another VIN specific item best to get that information from the dealership. It will also require coding etc. I would not replace it unless it was an absolute last resort and it had already passed through several professionals diagnosis and they all came back with "replace the ECM". It is over $1000 part and AFAIK only replaceable by the dealer.
Did you get no voltage at Throttle Valve Control Module - J338 - connector terminals 2 to 6 ?

The reason I’m doing this myself is because I can’t get even one professional to give me an accurate diagnosis. The dealership is just throwing parts at it and only other European shop was telling me that my ECM was bad but yet hadn’t even looked at my car. Honestly, you have helped me more than anyone...so again...thank you.

If it comes down to the ECM, I hope some here knows someone in El Paso, Texas who is professional and reliable enough for the job.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[gk1]

The reason I’m doing this myself is because I can’t get even one professional to give me an accurate diagnosis. The dealership is just throwing parts at it and only other European shop was telling me that my ECM was bad but yet hadn’t even looked at my car. Honestly, you have helped me more than anyone...so again...thank you.

If it comes down to the ECM, I hope some here knows someone in El Paso, Texas who is professional and reliable enough for the job.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

Sorry, it is such a shame when a bad dealer cannot properly diagnose their own product. It makes you mad, makes the community and the brand suffer and no one benefits. I mean the info I am giving you is directly from their own service manuals. At a minimum they could have done those steps for you and came back with either you need a TB or an ECM and here is what it would cost to replace either. And then warranty that work for a year and if the problem comes back it should be covered under that 1 year warranty. Just sucks. I feel that things like this don't happen in Germany...they figure it out no matter what. Maybe I am wrong I don't read the German forums. :)

Another thing I just thought of would be maybe to clear the codes yourself, then maybe disconnect the battery for a while, reconnect, clear codes again then allow it to re-adapt for a while/set readiness or wait for the code to re-appear. It's a long shot but gives you something else to try at least.
Also I'm sure there are other things/measuring blocks you could look at in VCDS that might help further diagnose...ie throttle positions, voltages etc when idle is high, but I am not sure what you would need to look at or what specific values they should be.
Good luck, hopefully you figure it out without needing to replace the ECM as that seems drastic.

[madfella]

Sorry, it is such a shame when a bad dealer cannot properly diagnose their own product. It makes you mad, makes the community and the brand suffer and no one benefits. I mean the info I am giving you is directly from their own service manuals. At a minimum they could have done those steps for you and came back with either you need a TB or an ECM and here is what it would cost to replace either. And then warranty that work for a year and if the problem comes back it should be covered under that 1 year warranty. Just sucks. I feel that things like this don't happen in Germany...they figure it out no matter what. Maybe I am wrong I don't read the German forums. :)

Another thing I just thought of would be maybe to clear the codes yourself, then maybe disconnect the battery for a while, reconnect, clear codes again then allow it to re-adapt for a while/set readiness or wait for the code to re-appear. It's a long shot but gives you something else to try at least.
Also I'm sure there are other things/measuring blocks you could look at in VCDS that might help further diagnose...ie throttle positions, voltages etc when idle is high, but I am not sure what you would need to look at or what specific values they should be.
Good luck, hopefully you figure it out without needing to replace the ECM as that seems drastic.

I have tried clearing the codes a few times. I may try disconnecting the battery next. I still need to test the voltage at the TB. I’m hoping and praying it’s the TB or the idle control module. Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[gk1]

I have tried clearing the codes a few times. I may try disconnecting the battery next. I still need to test the voltage at the TB. I’m hoping and praying it’s the TB or the idle control module. Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

FWIW the idle control motor is included within the electronics on the TB (right hand side facing motor) It all is one part and is the reason for suggesting if you can find one used it might be worth the swap to see what happens. Even if you can find a place that would let you "borrow" one or has a very good return policy. (long shot)

[s4nicetry]

I've had the same code appear on me twice to date now, both times for ~850rpm and it gave me a CEL that went away on it's own after a day or two. Cleared the first time and was gone for a couple months, then same thing again. I do notice sometimes at a set of lights my idle will be a touch higher than normal, (800-850rpm) not sure why but when I move ahead a bit and stop again or put it in Park it will drop again. I was thinking maybe a little vacuum leak but haven't really bothered checking it out yet as it rarely occurs.

[madfella]

I've had the same code appear on me twice to date now, both times for ~850rpm and it gave me a CEL that went away on it's own after a day or two. Cleared the first time and was gone for a couple months, then same thing again. I do notice sometimes at a set of lights my idle will be a touch higher than normal, (800-850rpm) not sure why but when I move ahead a bit and stop again or put it in Park it will drop again. I was thinking maybe a little vacuum leak but haven't really bothered checking it out yet as it rarely occurs.

That is exactly how mine started in January.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[madfella]

FWIW the idle control motor is included within the electronics on the TB (right hand side facing motor) It all is one part and is the reason for suggesting if you can find one used it might be worth the swap to see what happens. Even if you can find a place that would let you "borrow" one or has a very good return policy. (long shot)

IMG_2198.JPG



Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[FRANCOIS78]

Any update? I got the same issue with a high pitch whistle at high boost only and a lost of boost( stage 2). Turbo, pcv, diverter are almost new. Dealer quote me 4000k$ to repkace the intake manifold whitout inssurance to clear the problem.


Tanks


Sent from my SM-G960W using Audizine mobile app

[madfella]

Any update? I got the same issue with a high pitch whistle at high boost only and a lost of boost( stage 2). Turbo, pcv, diverter are almost new. Dealer quote me 4000k$ to repkace the intake manifold whitout inssurance to clear the problem.


Tanks


Sent from my SM-G960W using Audizine mobile app

So sorry for the extremely late reply. It was gone for a while, dealership replaced all four O2 sensors in January of 2020. It just started again yesterday evening. FML.

[rabbitdog]

I got the P0507 when I opened my oil cap while engine running idle today and can hear like some metal pieces clunking inside like a washing machine. Could it be the PCV issue?
Also found a TSB below.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...72895-0001.pdf

[xray777]

Any update? I got the same issue with a high pitch whistle at high boost only and a lost of boost( stage 2). Turbo, pcv, diverter are almost new. Dealer quote me 4000k$ to repkace the intake manifold whitout inssurance to clear the problem.


Tanks


Sent from my SM-G960W using Audizine mobile app

High pitch whistle sounds it could be the PCV which Audi recently extended warranty though 120k miles and can’t remember age limit.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[xray777]

I got the P0507 when I opened my oil cap while engine running idle today and can hear like some metal pieces clunking inside like a washing machine. Could it be the PCV issue?
Also found a TSB below.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...72895-0001.pdf

If it is Audi extended the warranty.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...60829-0001.pdf


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[rabbitdog]

High pitch whistle sounds it could be the PCV which Audi recently extended warranty though 120k miles and can’t remember age limit.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

I don’t hear a high pitch noise though it is hard to open the cap because of the suction which I read is supposed to be normal.
If not mistaken when I did this last year I didn’t get this symptom:-

Engine throttle starts revving up by itself. It only goes down once I close the cap. P0507 code shows up in VCDS after.

I’m wondering if this is normal ?

[jh_s6]

I don’t hear a high pitch noise though it is hard to open the cap because of the suction which I read is supposed to be normal.
If not mistaken when I did this last year I didn’t get this symptom:-

Engine throttle starts revving up by itself. It only goes down once I close the cap. P0507 code shows up in VCDS after.

I’m wondering if this is normal ?

I’ve done this same thing and heard the same noises you have. I feel like metal was moving around in the engine. I did this because I’ve had a rough idle once the car has been running for a while in park and neutral and is hot. The idle just randomly gets rough and stays like that on and off but once in drive it’s fine. If anyone has advice on that I would really appreciate it since I’ve been back and forth with Audi over a year about this issue and warranty is expiring soon. Also been having a thumping noise that correlates with this rough idle between engine and tranny it sounds like. Audi said it sounds like it’s coming from the transmission but then when a rep from AoA came to hear it they said it’s normal noise. Idk how if every other S6 doesn’t have that weird idle. Anyways, that same code was popped on my car when I lifted the cap and Audi did a re-adaptation of the throttle body. Have no idea if this fixed my issue most likely not since I caused that code with the oil cap and probably has nothing to do with my rough idle issue I’ve been having. Audi claims the metal noise is the cam adjusters adjusting for the increased idle from the vacuum leak once cap is removed. Not sure if this is true or not since I’m not too well versed on the motor and the adjusters.

[jh_s6]

I don’t hear a high pitch noise though it is hard to open the cap because of the suction which I read is supposed to be normal.
If not mistaken when I did this last year I didn’t get this symptom:-

Engine throttle starts revving up by itself. It only goes down once I close the cap. P0507 code shows up in VCDS after.

I’m wondering if this is normal ?

Did you ever figure this out?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum