Q5 S-line 3.0t vs. SQ5

[MSq5]

LOL ! All of the settled SQ vs Q science is being challenged in this post. What in the world is going on. Here is my input since I spent many a hour looking into this. These are the facts and I don't have to rip apart either of these two below items to tell you that.

1. Engine = same
2. Trans gearing = same



Sent from my SHT-W09 using Audizine mobile app

Yes. Confirmed multiple times. Repeatedly. Only difference engine wise is the small supplemental HX on the SQ in addition to the one both models have. Once you upgrade cooling that difference goes away. It has been long since resolved that final drive ratios are identical.

[VroomVroom]

^ This.

[Silver_Bullet]

Final drive ratios the same? We know the engine/trans are identical but are the differentials identical (same part number)? And how do you check the front differential in a Quattro? You guys say this is resolved please post a link to where you resolved it and verified the differentials. It would only be 60 vs 62.5 or 2000 vs 2083 rpm so we're not talking about a huge change and I'm not sure you would see that driving the cars back to back, especially with different tires.

We should be able to get actual identical differential part numbers for the two builds through Audi somewhere.

[elijahallen]

I have owned both and also the TDI version and the extra money is well spent on the SQ5. The Q5 is just dull in every way compared to the SQ5, sure you can make it as fast as the SQ5 but there is so much more that it would need to be comparable.

[Novarider]

I have owned both and also the TDI version and the extra money is well spent on the SQ5. The Q5 is just dull in every way compared to the SQ5, sure you can make it as fast as the SQ5 but there is so much more that it would need to be comparable.

Such as?

[elijahallen]

Such as?

What ever they did in the SQ5 to make it feel more like a car and not a truck. The SQ5 felt light and nimble compared to the Q5.

[choppstixxx]

What ever they did in the SQ5 to make it feel more like a car and not a truck. The SQ5 felt light and nimble compared to the Q5.

I mean the suspension is slightly different Q5 vs. SQ5, but not drastically different. Maybe the combination of the the extra power from the SQ5 made it seem "sportier"?
That being said when you strip down the Q5 and SQ5, they share the same bones. We can all go back and forth about which one we prefer forever, but we all are part of this forum because we share the same platform and love driving/modding them.

[Novarider]

What ever they did in the SQ5 to make it feel more like a car and not a truck. The SQ5 felt light and nimble compared to the Q5.

Are you comparing the tdi Q5 to the SQ5? We're taking about the 3.0t Q5.

[choppstixxx]

Are you comparing the tdi Q5 to the SQ5? We're taking about the 3.0t Q5.

He's owned the trifecta, TDI/3.0T/SQ5

[Novarider]

He's owned the trifecta, TDI/3.0T/SQ5

Wow.

[MSq5]

Final drive ratios the same? We know the engine/trans are identical but are the differentials identical (same part number)? And how do you check the front differential in a Quattro? You guys say this is resolved please post a link to where you resolved it and verified the differentials. It would only be 60 vs 62.5 or 2000 vs 2083 rpm so we're not talking about a huge change and I'm not sure you would see that driving the cars back to back, especially with different tires.

We should be able to get actual identical differential part numbers for the two builds through Audi somewhere.

We’ve done this over and over and posted results. We’ve posted speedo and gps reading at various rpm in 6th gear (direct 1:1 drive) and the rpm is the same for a given mph. I was a doubter initially. I thought the S-Line Q5 had a bit shorter gearing that the SQ5. I was wrong.

If you want to dig out part numbers, have at it. Knock yourself out.

Road and Track independently tested a 2015 SQ5. They reported a 3.08:1 final drive and published the gearing ratio in all eight gears, here:



Apologies for poor cell cam photo, but the numbers should be readable.

My S-Line has the same 3.08 diffs. I suspect any data reported by Audi to the contrary is simply a mistake. Believe me, I’d love the 3.2:1 gearing claimed by some, but I don’t.

Edit: the R&T article shows fourth gear upshift as 108 mph at 6,400 for the SQ5. Most of us see that as 6,300 for the shift, but close enough for these purposes.

Today, I had neither time nor space to get to 108 mph in 4th, but I took it half way to 54 mph. Guess what the rpm was? If you divide 6400 by 2 you get 3200.

[vdubjetta02]

Welp,
Not to get of tangent.... But I did the air box mod, throttle body hose, flapper delete, and now X pipe install is scheduled on Thursday..... (Might reconnect flappers after X pipe, not sure) .... Then finally will be tuning the car.

Still loving the car. I gave it a full rubbing compound, polish compound and wax this weekend. Brought the exterior back to life.... Really love this car. Feels although suspension may be in the future next spring. (Only part of the car I can't find a service history on, so assume I am still on stock 66,000 miles now)

*ALSO, has anyone had good luck blacking out their own front end grill? I can't stomach a $900-$1000 OEM black optics grill for something that is cosmetic

[scottst]

Not to belabor this, sorry, but I have a few more questions about the transmissions between the two.

I remember reading the early tests when they were talking about the SQ5 development. And, I distinctly remember them talking about transmission programming. Now, I know we can tune the transmissions, but I have a couple simple questions:
1) Are the transmissions between the 3.0T and the SQ5 the same actual part number? IIRC the Diesel has a different PN? Not sure about the SQ
2) Would there be any way to verify that the programming for the transmissions is different?

One of the things I love about the SQ, that is better than any recent automatic I've driven (Including Cayenne, Macan, Allroad, S4, etc) is how aggressively it downshifts and what a great job it does *not* automatically shifting to the highest gear possible. They appeared to not give a damn about gas mileage when they tuned this transmission and I love it.

I have a hard time believing that the 3.0T is tuned the same way simply because it's a higher volume car and CAFE goes on overall average.

Again, both are great, yadda yadda. But, it's more than just gear ratios.

[MSq5]

Not to belabor this, sorry, but I have a few more questions about the transmissions between the two.

I remember reading the early tests when they were talking about the SQ5 development. And, I distinctly remember them talking about transmission programming. Now, I know we can tune the transmissions, but I have a couple simple questions:
1) Are the transmissions between the 3.0T and the SQ5 the same actual part number? IIRC the Diesel has a different PN? Not sure about the SQ
2) Would there be any way to verify that the programming for the transmissions is different?

One of the things I love about the SQ, that is better than any recent automatic I've driven (Including Cayenne, Macan, Allroad, S4, etc) is how aggressively it downshifts and what a great job it does *not* automatically shifting to the highest gear possible. They appeared to not give a damn about gas mileage when they tuned this transmission and I love it.

I have a hard time believing that the 3.0T is tuned the same way simply because it's a higher volume car and CAFE goes on overall average.

Again, both are great, yadda yadda. But, it's more than just gear ratios.

I don’t know if the stock ZF8 TCU tunes are identical between the two in every detail on every one of the many different shift patterns. But they seem to be. Those of us playing with tuning them with HP Tuners software are not seeing any differences in the line pressures, clutch fill settings, shift points at various rpms in drive, sport or manual modes or in AMAX activation or stall speeds. There may be some, but I kinda doubt it based on the files we are exchanging.

There are differences between model years, but those differences seem to be more in the way the file is displayed when we open it in the HP Tuners software. The later year versions do seem to have more variables for us to play with. One example is that earlier ZF8s have a different processor chip speed. AMAX launches have a max launch of 256 (but we can over ride it), while later ones can be set to an impossibly high of over 65,000 because of the faster chip.

But, since I am only messing with upshift patterns and rpm shift point at very high throttle positions, only 70% and higher, and with AMAX operation, I’m only scratching the surface.

I agree that the sport mode downshift patterns are more aggressive even in the S-Line Q5 than any other auto transmission I’ve ever seen. It’s so good on the downshift side, there is nothing I would want to modify. FWIW, having seen the TCU file for the ZF8 in an RS7, the downshift patterns seem very similar. That may explain why they are so aggressive in sport mode for us.

[Chris@EPL]

The Q5 and SQ5 have different TCU box codes and files. We offer ZF TCU tunes for all of them.

[Silver_Bullet]

Oh MSq5 I like the work you do here and I was ready to believe you guys proved this out and then you posted this photo to compare to 108 MPH at 6,400. I couldn't help myself - so I pulled out a scale, blew up the photo, and estimated the numbers in your picture as 3250 RPM at 52.8 MPH. MPH at 6400: X = (6400/3250)*52.8 = 104 MPH. Ratio = 108/104 = 1.038 (3.8%). The gear ratio difference = 3.204/3.076 = 1.042 (4.2%).

I'm not saying you are not right - maybe they are the same - but your photo is not making your case and would point to the opposite conclusion.

Maybe actual data logs with speed/RPM through 6400 RPM for a Q5 and SQ5 would be pretty convincing (with tire info to correct discrepancies).

the R&T article shows fourth gear upshift as 108 mph at 6,400 for the SQ5. Most of us see that as 6,300 for the shift, but close enough for these purposes.

Today, I had neither time nor space to get to 108 mph in 4th, but I took it half way to 54 mph. Guess what the rpm was? If you divide 6400 by 2 you get 3200.

[scottst]

The Q5 and SQ5 have different TCU box codes and files. We offer ZF TCU tunes for all of them.

Thanks Chris. Very useful insight!

[MSq5]

Oh MSq5 I like the work you do here and I was ready to believe you guys proved this out and then you posted this photo to compare to 108 MPH at 6,400. I couldn't help myself - so I pulled out a scale, blew up the photo, and estimated the numbers in your picture as 3250 RPM at 52.8 MPH. MPH at 6400: X = (6400/3250)*52.8 = 104 MPH. Ratio = 108/104 = 1.038 (3.8%). The gear ratio difference = 3.204/3.076 = 1.042 (4.2%).

I'm not saying you are not right - maybe they are the same - but your photo is not making your case and would point to the opposite conclusion.

Maybe actual data logs with speed/RPM through 6400 RPM for a Q5 and SQ5 would be pretty convincing (with tire info to correct discrepancies).

Data logs will be better. My speedo reads 1-2 mph slower than my gps, but tach seems spot on with logs, so hard log data would be better. Yes. Small differences in tire brands for a given stated size and variations in iinflation pressures can skew the calculation, as well.

I may have a 4th gear log, but most were done in third.

[ProSkier]

The Q5 3.0T and SQ5 have the same final drive ratio (3.204:1).

Reference: Audi Q5/SQ5 Quick Reference Specification Book, September 2013, Page 112: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...21465-9999.pdf (Page 124 of the PDF)