Front brake upgrade for those who have

[JimmyS3]

Going to need brakes soon. And this probably has been discussed a 1000 times.

Don't have need for BBK but was looking for something better than the stock setup.

Was looking for thoughts on your setup.

Slotted/ drilled/ pads

What I was thinking was:

Stop tech drilled with a decent pad.

I even thought about ECS 2 piece or Neuspeed 2 piece.

Thanks

[Audibot]

brakeperformance.com has 30% off sale for August. They offer plain/blank, slotted, and/or dimpled discs, with or without coating for hub. They also offer ceramic or semi-metallic pads. Had them in my B7 and they lasted with no issues. Just bought a set for my C7 as well.

Something to consider.

[Chaoscreature]

I would also be interested in hearing if anyone here has any experience with the ECS 2-piece rotors.

OP,
For a street driven car, upgraded pads and some better brake fluid can make a world of difference. There are as many debates regarding the benefits of slots/holes on rotors. Your OEM rotors are probably fine still, so you could just do a pad swap and spend your money elsewhere.

Just curious, are you overheating your brakes currently? What is your primary goal with the brake upgrade? Less dust, more bite, high temperature fade resistance? These are compromise items and OEM pads are not a bad middle of the road in any regard.

[JimmyS3]

OEM have been fine. I am at the near point of it all needing to be replaced. My first thought was to stick with stock but different pads for less dust.

I actually have a set of pads I got from tirerack someone recommended a while back that were less dust but about same bite as OEM just forgot I bought them.

But again my thought was if needing to replace why not a slight upgrade.

I have been looking at Stoptech slotted. Then came across ECS and less weight is always nice too.

I did have a Brembo BBK on my TT years ago but don't do that type of driving now.

So that where Im at with it all.

[morris39]

OEM have been fine. I am at the near point of it all needing to be replaced. My first thought was to stick with stock but different pads for less dust.

I actually have a set of pads I got from tirerack someone recommended a while back that were less dust but about same bite as OEM just forgot I bought them.

But again my thought was if needing to replace why not a slight upgrade.

I have been looking at Stoptech slotted. Then came across ECS and less weight is always nice too.

I did have a Brembo BBK on my TT years ago but don't do that type of driving now.

So that where Im at with it all.

Can you educate me please and I am not being totally facetious. Under what (street) circumstances do you find the stock brakes need upgrading? In traffic my brakes are smooth and progressive under normal braking loads. I've only tested panic braking and the stopping seemed very quick and smooth. The car gets exercised on twisty mountain roads now and then. Those roads are narrow with some blind corners which require braking but not all out braking. I am not good or brave enough to go that fast into corners. Is that what your drives are like?

[Chaoscreature]

I am not good or brave enough to go that fast into corners. Is that what your drives are like?

I would say you are also not dumb enough to go into corners that fast on the street :) Kudos.
I can't think of any reasonable circumstances where the OEM brakes on an A3 are insufficient on the street. Maybe if you ride your brakes while coming down a mountain? I am reasonably rough on my brakes and haven't smelt burning pads on the street yet.

I think the OP was mostly interested in lower dust. I would read reviews and search for low dust pads on Google. I can't recommend any.

I am going to generalize here but I think there are three different camps of people who get BBK's:
1) People who do it for looks. Gots to have 390mm rotors under those 20" spinners or yu ain't cool. The additional mass of those massive rotors will actually slow your car down.
2) People who think they need Big Brakes before they track their cars. For a novice driver at an AX event the OEM brakes will do just fine. Even in advanced run groups at DE events you can get away with upgraded pads and fluids.
3) People who actually need them at the track. If you fall into this camp you have probably experienced brake fade in ways that most people have probably never imagined. When you overheat track pads or boil your fluid while trying to decelerate from 140mph into a corner, it gets your attention.

[JimmyS3]

Thanks was just looking for thoughts on upgraded rotors.

Guess like you said OEM and better pads/fluid are fine. Probably stick with that.

But if anyone has experience with better rotors let me know.
Stock rust at the hats bad, guess I can just high temp paint the new ones, and they squeak really bad when wet or cold for the first mile or so.

Thanks for the help

[MikTip]

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...pgraded-Brakes

[JonnyBravo!]

I just did my front brakes two and half weeks ago and here's what I went with:

- Power Stop Z23 Carbon Fiber Ceramic Pads
- R1 Concepts Geomet Drilled//Slotted Rotors (slotted/drilled is purely aesthetics, no real performance gain)

Throw in new hardware and I purchased everything for less than $300. I'm really happy with this combo. I haven't washed my wheels in over a week and they still look clean - where my stock pads would've caked them after the first drive. Initial bite is similar to stock, not quite 100%, but unless you're tracking the car then it's negligible. I know the Z23 pads are a fave amongst the Hellcat guys.

Highly recommend this set up - this seems to address all your issues: pad dust (ceramic), rotor rust (geomet), etc. This set up has also been super quiet as well. I haven't heard a single peep.

[aem421]

I'm in the same boat. However, I'm going to replace front and rear at the same time. How many miles do most S3 owners get from the OEM brakes? I'm almost at 51K miles and I'm still on the stock brakes.

[Chaoscreature]

There are still some really good deals here for Stoptech Kits, you just can't be picky about color. Some guys over at VWVortex have bought these so it seems legitimate.

https://www.buybrakes.com/stoptech-b...big-brake-kits

[Spinnetti]

I'm in the same boat. However, I'm going to replace front and rear at the same time. How many miles do most S3 owners get from the OEM brakes? I'm almost at 51K miles and I'm still on the stock brakes.

Mine's got 80k, and had the fronts replaced - rear are still great. I made over 100k miles on my A4 brakes without a problem. This is one case where factory brakes really are good enough in most cases, or at most pads for track oriented use.

[JonnyBravo!]

Damn, I guess I’m in the minority then. My pads lasted 30k miles before the dash light came on and needed to be replaced.

[Chaoscreature]

It really depends on how you drive. My wifes VW has 115,000 miles on the factory pads and still going strong.

[rbish56]

i just had the water pump and thermostat housing replaced under warranty. i am "stage 2" UM and i drive the car HARD. i had a complementary 120 point inspection yada yada yada but they checked the brakes and said the front are like new and the rear is getting a little worn but it is nothing i need to think about replacing right now. the car has 48k miles on it. hope that helps.

[morris39]

I'm still wondering why some need brake upgrades an/or early replacement. My S3 wore 1/2 the pad thickness in 25k miles. This is a little more wear but not unusual for other cars I owned but then the S3 gets more twisty roads for exercise.
I do see nervous nellies who are always on the brakes and also drivers who brake rather than down shift on long downhills. So poor driving skill?

[aem421]

I'm still wondering why some need brake upgrades an/or early replacement. My S3 wore 1/2 the pad thickness in 25k miles. This is a little more wear but not unusual for other cars I owned but then the S3 gets more twisty roads for exercise.
I do see nervous nellies who are always on the brakes and also drivers who brake rather than down shift on long downhills. So poor driving skill?

Agreed. I try not to hit the brakes. I just want to get rid of the dust. I hate to replace everything prematurely, but the brake dust is killing me. I wash my wheels once a week. I guess I'll tough it out and wait for the light to come on. The rotors already have a lip so imma replace those as well.

[morris39]

@AEM
The rotors already have a lip so imma replace those as well.
Don't be too quick with the rotors. Allowable wear is 3 mm/2 mm front/back rotors. My rear rotor is worn only 0.5 mm but I can feel a definite "lip". Prelim observations (25 k miles) suggests 3 pad replacements before rotors needed.

[MikTip]

I bought a set Centric High Carbon Rotors up front....which they claim Improved braking performance and stopping power....

[texasboy21]

I have about 35k miles on my S3 the fronts are more than half worn. The rears were replaced prior to me purchasing the car around 27k miles.

When the time comes I plan on upgrading as I find the stock setup doesn't like to be pushed too hard for too long.

My plan is to run a higher temp brake fluid along with a 'brake caliper stiffening kit' and stainless lines t0 help resist fade and improve pedal feel. Slotted rotors for the cool factor, and a more aggressive pad.

[morris39]

I have about 35k miles on my S3 the fronts are more than half worn. The rears were replaced prior to me purchasing the car around 27k miles.

When the time comes I plan on upgrading as I find the stock setup doesn't like to be pushed too hard for too long.

My plan is to run a higher temp brake fluid along with a 'brake caliper stiffening kit' and stainless lines t0 help resist fade and improve pedal feel. Slotted rotors for the cool factor, and a more aggressive pad.

Um, OK. Can you offer some very rough splits between all the different aspects of your mods, i.e. expected improvement fraction, cost fraction, total cost over doing the Audi recommendation? Or is it just I want to do it b/c it's fun for you? I don't quarrel with that but just wonder whether you admit it to yourself (if that is in fact so).

[Emericasktr1]

2015 A3, upgraded to S3 front calipers and ECS 2 piece rotors. Calipers came with pads that were fine so I have yet to upgrade the pads and notice a difference.Snapchat-626603298.jpg

Sent from my SM-N960U using Audizine mobile app

[Chaoscreature]

Emericasktr,

Any clicking or other noises from the ECS rotors?
I was thinking if getting these just to drop some unsprung weight, but am leery of ECS quality.

[texasboy21]

Um, OK. Can you offer some very rough splits between all the different aspects of your mods, i.e. expected improvement fraction, cost fraction, total cost over doing the Audi recommendation? Or is it just I want to do it b/c it's fun for you? I don't quarrel with that but just wonder whether you admit it to yourself (if that is in fact so).

I think I did, but here is a better list.

Higher temp brake fluid - higher boiling point
'Brake caliper stiffening kit' - replaces soft mounting bushings with solid mounts - improves caliper rigidity and pedal feel.
Stainless lines - improves pedal feel and replaces a failure point
Slotted rotors - cool factory and may improve cooling (I am leaning towards the Club Sport however as they are lighter)
More aggressive pad - a more aggressive pad.

I don't mod frivolously, all of the items listed will improve the braking feel, performance, and reliability while being pushed.

If you havnt experienced brake failure you havnt driven your car hard enough.

[morris39]

I think I did, but here is a better list.

Higher temp brake fluid - higher boiling point
'Brake caliper stiffening kit' - replaces soft mounting bushings with solid mounts - improves caliper rigidity and pedal feel.
Stainless lines - improves pedal feel and replaces a failure point
Slotted rotors - cool factory and may improve cooling (I am leaning towards the Club Sport however as they are lighter)
More aggressive pad - a more aggressive pad.

I don't mod frivolously, all of the items listed will improve the braking feel, performance, and reliability while being pushed.

If you havnt experienced brake failure you havnt driven your car hard enough.

My question was about costs v.s. benefits if you catch my drift.

[texasboy21]

My question was about costs v.s. benefits if you catch my drift.

Since the rotors and pads are being replaced anyways there is not much of a premium to "upgrade". The only 'additional cost' would be the brake lines and caliper stiffening kit, both of which are a little over $100 each. It's a perfect while you're in there mod.

[MikTip]

My question was about costs v.s. benefits if you catch my drift.

Honestly...

The OEM brakes are fine for normal street driving.

Upgraded brakes are needed to track the car or higher speed driving...as the OEM brakes get easily over-whelmed in track use...

Some drivers like the performance of the larger brakes. Which actually lets you drive the car faster cause now you know it can stop.

But its still a street driven car....

[Spinnetti]

Emericasktr,

Any clicking or other noises from the ECS rotors?
I was thinking if getting these just to drop some unsprung weight, but am leery of ECS quality.

ECS doesn't make them, they get them from china like literally everybody else. You get some duds from time to time, but I had that happen on a brand new Toyota too. I was tempted by the TTS calipers which are fixed, better & a lot lighter but no need for them.

General ramble on brakes:
I did a full season of 24hr enduro race events on a pair of rotors that cost me $4.19 total - shipping included! (off amazon) lol. People get too hung up on rotors; I buy the cheapest ones I can find off ebay or amazon (and often machine them to my liking as I really like the RS style wave rotors). Slots and holes are not to dissipate water, they are to degass the pads which is utterly useless on the street and cost more. I normally do it too just for the looks though my S3 has totally stock brakes - but they wear out faster and micro crack sooner rather than later and on some cars make some chatter. Rotors are disposable and are just the heat sinks of the braking system - its the pads that are critically important and I spend my money there. Too many people spend money on rotors that make no difference and little on pads which is the most important bit. I've never had to upgrade fluid or lines for any race car (had a fair few) but often do the stainless lines just for comfort factor. I usually run Castrol LMA and flush each race but that's about it. Street cars don't need anything fancy. If somebody is getting brake fade on the street in an Audi, they are doing something wrong. On the track for DE's and such, upgrade to a good pad or real race pads if you want to go crazy and keep the fluid reasonably fresh. If somebody is doing more than a DE and is really racing, well they already know what all needs to be done but I doubt anybody here has a real Audi race car.