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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Bilstein B8 Shock/H&R Spring Install/DIY

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    Short version: Installed new suspension stuff, Bilstein/H&R combo is awesome, car looks better, smiles all around. Long version has a lot of DIY since I couldn’t find much out there for the (S)Q5 and hopefully it helps someone out in the future. My friend and I did the install and there are a couple helpful things that I’ll share below. Total time without messing with the rear end links was probably in the neighborhood of 5 hours or so, we could likely do under 4 for everything if we had to do it all again. Apologies for the large photos, not sure how to shrink them down.

    Long version/DIY:

    A spring/shock combo was the best value for what I wanted out of the car. I didn’t care for the height adjustability and the drop I would get from the Bilstein B8s and H&Rs would be good for all around use. And other than the PSS10, which are basically impossible to get now, everything pretty much needs to be removed from the car to be adjusted and I wasn’t interested in that. I also had a similar set up on a previous car and it was great so off I went. KW SCs were another option but more expensive and once the rebound is set would probably rarely ever get adjusted, and there’s additional cost for the adjustment extenders.

    Parts:

    Contacted our friendly neighborhood Mops for most of the stuff who as usually provided great service. I also elected to order the density line front strut mounts from 034 since the new set-up would be stiffer, and wanted to make sure the mounts were set. Also ordered a trans mount (already had ECS drive line inserts).
    Figured I would swap to the Moog end links since the fronts are taken off anyway and the rears are far more accessible. The rears are way easier to access with the shock removed, I didn’t end up using the rears though because I didn’t like the way they fit (soft or hard) with the 034 bar, bushings/bolting just didn’t line up right. The stock ones are so short I doubt there is much improvement in stiffness anyway.

    New parts list:

    Bilstein Shocks:24-145985 / 24-145992
    H&R Springs: 29001-3
    034 Strut Mount: 034-601-1003-TD
    034 Trans Mount:034-509-4025
    Moog Front/Rear: K750359/K750361

    Audi also made almost every suspension bolt a TTY bolt and therefore they are supposed to be replaced each time. I know a lot of people reuse them and are OK, I decided to get new ones. Spoiler alert, there’s a lot. If you don’t do the rear end links, it’s less, and I ordered hardware for both ends of the upper control arms since I wasn’t sure which side I wanted to remove, just ended up doing the strut mount end, so less to order there too. Here is the list of everything though. NOTE: A shop manual is helpful, the TTY bolts should be torqued properly and many of them are torqued in curb weight position (jack the suspension up to normal height).

    Item Description / Size / Part Number / Qty

    1. Upper Control Arm to Upper Strut Mount Bolt / M10x62x45 / N-104-253-02 / 4
    2. Upper Control Arm to Upper Strut Mount Nut / M10x1.5 / N-102-861-10 / 4
    3. Upper Control Arm Spindle Pinch Bolt / M10x110x24 / WHT-007-963 / 2
    4. Upper Control Arm Spindle Pinch Bolt Nut / M10x1.5 / N-102-861-10 / 2
    5. Upper Strut Mount Bolts / M10x35 / N-911-523-01 / 8
    6. Lower Strut Pinch Bolt / M12x1.5x80 / N-104-213-04 / 2
    7. Lower Strut Pinch Bolt Nut / M12x1.5 / N-101-064-02 / 2
    8. Lower Strut Mount to Control Arm Bolt / M12x1.5x85 / N-102-412-02 /2
    9. Lower Strut Mount to Control Arm Nut / M12x1.5 / N-101-064-02 / 2
    10. Front Swaybar End Link Upper Bolt / M10x45 / N-106-999-01 / 2
    11. Front Swaybar End Link Lower Bolt / M10x60 / N-105-707-02 / 2
    12. Front Swaybar End Link Lower Nut / M10x1.5 / N-102-861-10 / 2
    13. Rear Swaybar End Link Bolt / M10x65 / N-909-978-02 / 4
    14. Rear Swaybar End Link Nut / M10 / N-102-723-02 / 2
    15. Rear Lower Shock Mount Bolt / M14x1.5x90 / N-105-008-02 / 2
    16. Rear Upper Shock Mount Bolts / M10x40 / N-912-225-01 / 4

    Now on to the fun part:

    You will need a spring compressor (I borrowed from Autozone), basic set of tools, and a high torque impact will make things a lot easier. Buy a strut spreader from Amazon (VW 3424). Nothing really special. Note I also soaked everything in PB Blaster for a couple of days before getting started to try and ease disassembly, I only have about 40k miles, but not worth fighting with stuff. A second person is pretty much required for certain things for removal or install. If you have electronic damping you will have some additional parts to deal with.

    1. Measure and record the center of each wheel hub to the fender for use later when tightening things.

    2. Remove the front cowl cover and the two strut tower support pieces to allow access to the front strut bolts.


    3. Rear Suspension:
    a. Started in the back since the springs seemed like they would be the most likely to be a pain (spoiler alert, they were). Note that on the left side is the headlight level sensor, unbolt it from the control arm so it doesn’t get damaged during the work.
    b. Remove two upper strut bolts, I had to trim the wheel well liner a little to get good access to the bolts. Just use a razor blade.

    c. Take off the rock guard and remove lower strut mounting bolt. This is where a high torque impact is nice, this one would be a PITA to get off otherwise.

    d. Remove the shock. Now’s the time to do the rear end links if you want (or after the spring as it’s a lot easier to raise up at that point with no spring tension).
    e. The rear spring will come out a lot easier if you unbolt the brake caliper (like you are changing the pads), this will give you another 4 or 5” of room, and unbolting at least the end link from the sway bar will allow more suspension movement to bounce it when removing/installing the spring.

    f. Compress the rear spring as much as possible using the tool and pry it out. A second person can leverage the suspension down to get more space. The new spring was around 2” shorter and isn’t as bad to get in, just bounce the suspension down while pushing it in. I didn’t use the compressor at all for the new one. Make sure the springs are properly seated in the perch before reinstalling.
    g. Re-use the stock mount, bump stop and shield (I trimmed them at the first ridge from the top on front/rear – JHM has a good picture for their springs and the drop was going to be similar). Assemble the new one noting the proper order for everything as you disassemble the old one.
    h. For reinstalling the rear shock, if you are quick, you can fully compress it and then get it set in place without much effort.
    i. Marvel at your efforts, then realize you still have a bunch to do, the fronts are actually easier though.

    4. Front Suspension:
    a. Pull the ABS wire out of its clip so it doesn’t pull while moving stuff around, the brake line will be fine.

    b. Unbolt the front end link from the lower shock fork/mount. I just took all the way out to replace it.

    c. I unbolted the upper control arms from the strut mount instead of fighting with the ball joints. A little more complicated to reinstall but nothing that bad. Swing them towards you and out of the way. Note that the spindle and brake rotor and going to move a lot when these are disconnected.

    d. Unbolt both the shock lower mount/fork part attached to the control arm and the pinch bolt at the top. Insert the strut spreader, rotate 90 deg and leave it in place, and you should be able to wiggle everything to get the lower strut mount/fork piece out. The spring and shock will now be hanging from the 4 bolts up top and that’s it.

    e. Go back up top and unbolt the 4 upper strut mount bolts, support the assembly or its going to just fall out after the last bolt is removed. It’s not super heavy, just awkward. Tilting the brake rotor and spindle towards the front of the car will allow plenty of room to take it out.

    f. Use the spring compressor just to take tension off the mount to remove the bolt, and so you don’t shoot the mount across the garage.
    g. Reuse the spring perches, washer, bump stop (trim again), and rubber mount (unless you buy the new one. Again pay attention to the way everything came out. The bilsteins came with a new nut and washer this DOES NOT replace the washer that came off of the shock under the mount. The new one is meant to go on top with the new top nut since it doesn’t have the built in washer.
    h. Once reassembled, put it back in and loosely install the 4 top mount bolts, don’t tighten anything down until its all back in.
    i. Reinstall the fork/lower mount using the strut spreader to help. Again put the bolts/nuts in but keep them loose. The shock should bottom out in the lower mount, there is a little lip/tab that keeps it from going all the way through. Remove spreader once it is in place.
    j. Reinstall the upper control arms, keeping the bolts loose.
    k. Tighten up the bolts as follows:
    i. Upper strut mounts:
    1. Inner Cowl Bolt
    2. Inner Engine Bay Bolt
    3. Outer Cowl Bolt
    4. Outer Engine Bay Bolt
    ii. Jack the suspension up to nominal ride height.
    1. Lower shock mount to Control Arm
    2. Lower shock mount pinch bolt.
    3. Upper control arms, get both sides snug, then have someone push the spindle towards the inside of the car while you tighten them. This will prevent too much unnecessary preload on the bushing and prematurely wearing out.
    4. Once everything is in place, the end link can go back in, don’t fully tighten until the car is back on the ground, these are easy to get to from under the car.
    l. Wheels on, lower the car, torque wheels, tighten end links. Should look like this when it is all done.

    m. Clean up your stuff and go drive the car.

    Once you finish your headlights are probably going to be aimed into the dirt so go adjust those too. Find a flat surface (probably a shopping center). They should drop 1 inch from the center of the lens over 25 feet.

    Note: I recommend doing this via VCDS to set the new home position to make sure they maintain the proper range for the level motors (could result in soft code if it goes out of the expected range). On newer models, the adaptation is done under 09 – Central Elect / Basic Settings / Group 011. Clcik ON/OFF/NEXT, it will say WAIT, then Adjust headlights, when done click ON/OFF/NEXT again and it will have learned the new home position. Headlights must be in ON, not AUTO, while this is done.
    The ride honestly feels better than stock, dive/squat are much better controlled and slide in the corners is very predictable. I have pilot sport a/s 3+ on the car and I will lose traction before I feel the car is at it’s suspension limits. No more roll feeling. So far it dropped about 2”, we will see where it settles out in a couple hundred miles. Was about ~18” from the center of the hub to the fender, and is now about 16”, the back is floating more than the front but will settle around there if I had to guess. Alignment check to follow. Here is a quick before and after, but it had practically 0 miles on it at the time.





    The trans mount was an awesome upgrade as well, a little bit of low RPM vibration from the trans now, but it shifts SO much nicer, doesn’t feel like the driveline is bouncing around and hammering the crap out of everything. I HIGHLY recommend it for the 30 bucks, especially if you are tuned and don’t mind a little vibration. I rolled the windows up with the radio off briefly and didn’t really hear any trans whine, but A/C was off and it was only for a minute so can’t speak to that yet. I am guessing the vibration may be a little much for some, but I love it.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings VroomVroom's Avatar
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    What an awesome how-to! Job well done. Thanks for sharing with the rest of us. I hope you enjoy the suspension setup as much as I do.
    --Jerry || 2020 SQ7 Pr, GW/Black/BO (His); 2018 S5 Cab Pr, Daytona/Red (Hers)
    Suspension || H&R Springs - 29001-3; Bilstein B8 Dampers - 24-145985 (F) & 24-145992 (R)
    Wheels & Tires || BBS CI-R - CIR 0501 BPO, 20x10 ET25 Satin Black; Continental DWS06 275/40
    ...Formerly: '16 SQ5 '13 Q53.0T '12 Q5 3.2 '08&'06 A4 Avant 3.2.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings arjun90's Avatar
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    This thread is a gem, thanks for posting, by the way did you get any electronically-controlled suspension fault codes after replacing these components?


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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    I don't have EDC so that wasn't an issue for me. You would if you did this and have it since it would no longer have anywhere to connect to. Knoni has an EDC option, and KW does as well that would leave it in tact, I don't know if the Koni is just a simulator or if it is actually adjustable electronically.

    And thanks @VroomVroom, I read your comments when looking at everything and it helped solidify my choice.

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    Last edited by djn876; 07-31-2019 at 04:52 AM.
    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings choppstixxx's Avatar
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    Yea awesome write up, if/when I decide to upgrade my suspension this is the way I'll go. Don't really care about adjusting things as I am not trying to tuck or slam my car.
    2020 Manganese Gray Metallic VW Arteon SEL Premium R-Line
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    2004 Crownline 202 LPX
    2016 Glacier White Metallic Q5 3.0T Premium+ S-Line 1 of 589 *RIP*
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings Treeskier's Avatar
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    Well done and great suspension choice - many of us are very happy with it.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings VroomVroom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arjun90 View Post
    ...did you get any electronically-controlled suspension fault codes after replacing these components?
    Quote Originally Posted by djn876 View Post
    ...Koni has an EDC option, and KW does as well that would leave it in tact, I don't know if the Koni is just a simulator or if it is actually adjustable electronically.
    FWIW, I'm reasonably sure both kits are just packaged inline resistors to give the illusion that the OEM dampers are still there. Years ago I lucked into working with a Bilstein engineer who was crafting such a solution for GM platforms. I had a 1500 series SUV and installed shorter shocks to go with my 2" spindle drop. The error codes and dash messages were driving me nuts. At first he just offered advice, which led me to a trip to Radio Shack. Then a week-ish later I got a package in the mail with four sets of the "AutoRide Cancel" adapters. Each was a cable roughly 18" long. On one end was a female connector to receive the male connector from the OEM setup. The other end was just a loop where a cable tie could be used to stash the assembly out of the way. Needless to say, I've been a huge fan of Bilstein ever since.
    --Jerry || 2020 SQ7 Pr, GW/Black/BO (His); 2018 S5 Cab Pr, Daytona/Red (Hers)
    Suspension || H&R Springs - 29001-3; Bilstein B8 Dampers - 24-145985 (F) & 24-145992 (R)
    Wheels & Tires || BBS CI-R - CIR 0501 BPO, 20x10 ET25 Satin Black; Continental DWS06 275/40
    ...Formerly: '16 SQ5 '13 Q53.0T '12 Q5 3.2 '08&'06 A4 Avant 3.2.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Nice dude, I was wondering if that is what the Konis did. KW makes their DDC that I think can work with the stock system (maybe needs a different controller?) but it's very pricey.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  9. #9
    Senior Member Three Rings Tinpusher's Avatar
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    Having read all that I'm glad I paid someone else to do it! I still love this set up and I'm sure you will too.
    2016 SQ5 Technik
    Mythos Black/Black & Magma
    H&R Springs - 29001-3; Bilstein B8 - 24-145985 (F) & 24-145992 (R)
    BBS CI-R - 20x10 ET25 Platinum Silver
    Continental DWS06 295/40 20
    034 Intake Hose
    Factory tow hitch

  10. #10
    Stage 3 Forum Advertiser Four Rings Mops@Nemesis's Avatar
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    Beautiful thread, Dan! I'm so glad you're pleased. This combo seems to be a clear winner - everyone loves it! And yea, the NVH from the 034 mounts is negligible at most. Totally worth the yield!
    034Motorsport | ABT | Advan | AG | AWE | BBS | BC Forged | Brembo | Capristo | Deval | EMD | Enkei | Eventuri | Forgeline | Forgestar | GiroDisc | H&R | HRE | KW | Milltek | Rohana | Rotiform | Stoptech | Unitronic | VMR | Vossen | Volk | Vorsteiner and many more!


  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mops@Nemesis View Post
    Beautiful thread, Dan! I'm so glad you're pleased. This combo seems to be a clear winner - everyone loves it! And yea, the NVH from the 034 mounts is negligible at most. Totally worth the yield!
    Thanks man, and appreciate all of your help!

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    If anyone is interested here is how my alignment ended up. This was the first one I had done on the car (I wasn't having any unusual wear or driving issues before or after install) so can't speak to how much it was related to the stuff being a little out and how much from lowering.

    Either way the only thing left our of spec is from camber, which is a little aggressive but not that bad. I'll rotate frequently and can swap left to right with tires I have as well so i don't expect any issues.Screenshot_20190825-070025.jpeg
    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Three Rings ewytt's Avatar
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    With this setup has anyone had any clearance issues camping, dips in the road, snow, or specifically those who are towing?
    2016 SQ5 || 2002 Turbo Beetle

  14. #14
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Nice write up, thanks! I’m installing the same setup on Friday. How long did you allow to settle before getting an alignment?

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    I probably had around 3 or 400 miles on it before I took it in. I didn't really see much of any change in the height from the initial install.
    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewytt View Post
    With this setup has anyone had any clearance issues camping, dips in the road, snow, or specifically those who are towing?
    I haven't had any issues, there is probably still 6ish inches of ground clearance. Can't speak to off road or towing but I would think it would be OK for normal use.
    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings ILVTRANCE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mops@Nemesis View Post
    Beautiful thread, Dan! I'm so glad you're pleased. This combo seems to be a clear winner - everyone loves it! And yea, the NVH from the 034 mounts is negligible at most. Totally worth the yield!
    Hey Mops@Nemesis can you shoot me a price on this suspension setup?
    2014 SQ5 P+ | 034 Stage 2 ECU + TCU | 034 190mm crank pully | 034 Street Density motor mounts | 034Motorsport S34 Carbon Fiber Intake | Merc Racing HX V3 | Bilstein B8's w/ H&R Springs | 034 Trans insert | RSNAV 10.25
    NEW EDM MIX APRIL 2021 https://soundcloud.com/matt-scheinwa...in-my-basement

  18. #18
    Active Member Two Rings
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    This post was very helpful as I did this install yesterday by myself. For the front end no additional tips to add, excellent detail although I have one question about end ride height, more on the below. As for the rear, the spring removal is as stated the worst part. Working by myself I couldn’t get enough weight pushing down on the suspension and at the same time pry the spring out. I had read on the S4 forums about dropping the subframe about an inch to give more room. I dropped the rear bolt but the front bolt appears to have been changed by Audi and is a specialized star pattern that I had nothing like it. In the end it didn’t mater as just dropping the rear bolt was enough to get me just a bit more room. Also recommend removing the rear caliper as stated above. That was not in other posts I had read before and it was really helpful to get the extra room. Installing the new spring was easy with the shortened height.

  19. #19
    Active Member Two Rings
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    So what did everyone with this setup end up with FTG measurements? I’ve seen some here and there but I’m concerned about my front end. My rear is at 30.5” but my front on both sides is sitting at ~ 29.5” from ground to the bottom of the plastic fender protector. About 29.75 to the actual metal fender. Where are people measuring to? The actual fender or this plastic protector? Regardless, my height seems a bit lower than others and I’m concerned I didn’t install correctly. Also I think it might look better if it was a half inch higher to go with the rear better. It drives fantastic and no weird sounds and I triple checked all connections. I was thinking I might have installed the lower strut fork mount a bit too high on the bottom of the strut, therefore dropping the height further.

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    The rear will settle down a bit, mine did after driving some but as you noted, the plastic deflector in the front makes it look a little lower too. I measure to the metal fender since that would be the same point at both ends.

    Mine were both around 16ish inches from the center of the hub to the fender if I remember, which or around 30 in to the ground maybe a little under. Here is a picture I had of the front, can't seem to find one of the back right now (not sure why I dont have one). The rear does sit just a little higher. I don't think you did anything wrong if it's quiet and feels solid. Most suspension stuff that isn't right makes some pretty noticeable noise.
    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Also, did the star bolt head look like this picture? If so you just need a 12 sided socket in the right size, nothing exotic. My front end links each had one of those, the new bolts for them were normal 6 sided.



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    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  22. #22
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Yes that’s the style head I saw, figured it was unique by Audi. Doesn’t really matter since all of my metric sockets are six pointed, oh well, I got it done. Thanks for the tip though, good to know for the future. Thanks for checking on the front end height too. We’re pretty close to each other.

  23. #23
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    I believe that’s a 19mm 12 point socket.


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  24. #24
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    That sounds right, certainly haven't seen too many of them around on other stuff I've worked on.
    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daavikes View Post
    This post was very helpful as I did this install yesterday by myself. For the front end no additional tips to add, excellent detail although I have one question about end ride height, more on the below. As for the rear, the spring removal is as stated the worst part. Working by myself I couldn’t get enough weight pushing down on the suspension and at the same time pry the spring out. I had read on the S4 forums about dropping the subframe about an inch to give more room. I dropped the rear bolt but the front bolt appears to have been changed by Audi and is a specialized star pattern that I had nothing like it. In the end it didn’t mater as just dropping the rear bolt was enough to get me just a bit more room. Also recommend removing the rear caliper as stated above. That was not in other posts I had read before and it was really helpful to get the extra room. Installing the new spring was easy with the shortened height.
    Bumping this old thread in case Daavikes made any more progress on the ride height w/the 29001-3. I'm at 29.5 front and 30.5 rear to the "plastic". Surprised the front is this low and that there is this much rake. Mine looks quite close to DJN876s though. DJN876, what's your rear height?
    '16 SQ5 ROW/BilsteinB8 CH-R 9s; 997.2 spasm 6spd; '18 Macan S. Many, many audis in the past...

  26. #26
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    I actually ended up playing quite a bit back and forth trying to figure this out. I initially liked the rake but then happened to have a heavy load in my trunk this winter, which evened front and rear out to near neutral rake. I liked that much better so dug in this spring. As to the rears first, if the springs are seated correctly there isn’t anything that could be installed wrong which would change the overall height. Doubled checked that and it looked good, plus my 30.5” ftg went with all the other numbers I’ve seen on the boards.
    As to the fronts, when I took my winters off this spring, I had more inner wear than expected as many others said that they didn’t have any noticeable wear even with the camber out of spec. What I found was that the struts were mounted on the lower strut mount too high. And when I slid the mount down to the bottom of the strut, my ride height was now around 30.25”. Most of the rake is gone now, although there is still a little as the rear sits just a bit higher but I’m much happier and hopefully my tires won’t wear on the inside as much.

  27. #27
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    Sounds like exactly what is going on with me. Can you say more about the front strut mount? Maybe with this pic as reference?




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    '16 SQ5 ROW/BilsteinB8 CH-R 9s; 997.2 spasm 6spd; '18 Macan S. Many, many audis in the past...

  28. #28
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    Oh yeah, I can tell right away that the mount is too high on the strut. That’s exactly where mine was before. I have mine nearly flush with the bottom of the strut now. I’ll try and find a picture. Pic is dark but i think enough detail is there to see it. I should make a disclaimer that I’m not certain this is the root cause but I looked at every mounting point that I touched in the install process and couldn’t find anything else that was not tight or looked installed incorrectly.
    Attached Images

  29. #29
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    Would be awesome if you could share a clearer pic. What I find strange is that from the instructions I have read it feels like that lower ‘clamp’ should slide up another 3/8” and sit just under the lip on the strut but that would put me even lower...

    Do you happen to know if the shock body has more than one spot for the circlip that the lower spring mount sits on?

    Did you take the whole thing apart or just wedge open the clamp (I have the vw tool) and slide it down?

    Thanks!


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    '16 SQ5 ROW/BilsteinB8 CH-R 9s; 997.2 spasm 6spd; '18 Macan S. Many, many audis in the past...

  30. #30
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    The shock body in the front should sit on the hard stop, just like the OEM one. Look at my pics you can see how it designed to sit. If you look at the Bilstein instructions that is the way it is supposed to be mounted.

    I would not recommend raising it above and trying to clamp it down to even it out. It is very likely to move on you during driving, hit a hard bump and now you have the whole front end off. That pinch bolt is meant to keep the shock from sliding, but it is NOT meant to bear the weight of the suspension. With it off the bottom, that arm is not supporting the shock the way it is supposed to.

    There is only one spot that the front spring can be located on. If I remember the back does sit a little higher from ground to allow for cargo load, etc. but not from the hub. The plastic in the front makes it look like a bigger difference than it is. My gap, when you discount the plastic piece, is essentially the same.

    Also, the measurement you take should be to the fender in both cases, not to the plastic debris shroud in the front just in case you were measuring there. After learning a little more, to eliminate potential differences with wheels, tires, etc. Measurements should be from the hub to fender, not ground to fender.
    Last edited by djn876; 05-26-2020 at 05:57 AM.
    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  31. #31
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    My heights are both right about 16" from the fendor to the hub. Fairly certain this the measurement that the H&R springs have you take too. I included a screenshot from KW for reference too.Screenshot_20200526-065054.jpeg
    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by djn876 View Post
    The shock body in the front should sit on the hard stop, just like the OEM one. Look at my pics you can see how it designed to sit. If you look at the Bilstein instructions that is the way it is supposed to be mounted.

    I would not recommend raising it above and trying to clamp it down to even it out. It is very likely to move on you during driving, hit a hard bump and now you have the whole front end off. That pinch bolt is meant to keep the shock from sliding, but it is NOT meant to bear the weight of the suspension. With it off the bottom, that arm is not supporting the shock the way it is supposed to.

    There is only one spot that the front spring can be located on. If I remember the back does sit a little higher from ground to allow for cargo load, etc. but not from the hub. The plastic in the front makes it look like a bigger difference than it is. My gap, when you discount the plastic piece, is essentially the same.

    Also, the measurement you take should be to the fender in both cases, not to the plastic debris shroud in the front just in case you were measuring there. After learning a little more, to eliminate potential differences with wheels, tires, etc. Measurements should be from the hub to fender, not ground to fender.
    Thanks! I went out and measured and I'm 16" from hub to plastic and about 16.25" from hub to metal fender in front, and 17" in rear. FWIW I don't have a hitch.

    My install looks pretty much identical to yours. What I find odd is that there's a ridge about 3/8" up on the shock body that looks like it should be the thing we "rest on". I didn't do the install so I can't see if there's a natural stop where mine sit or not but I see both of ours with the ridge above the top of the clamp.

    What I also found interesting was I went and looked at the OEM struts in the box last night and it appears that the bottom of the shock sits below the clamp when stock as well. I can post pics of the marks of folks are curious, or someone with a stock suspension can take a pic. The other thing is there doesn't appear to be any "ridge" on the stock strut telling you where to stop. Agree with you that we're probably asking for trouble by scooting the strut "up" in the clamp. You definitely don't want that thing slipping in an emergency situation.

    Great info here. Thank you!
    '16 SQ5 ROW/BilsteinB8 CH-R 9s; 997.2 spasm 6spd; '18 Macan S. Many, many audis in the past...

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottst View Post
    Thanks! I went out and measured and I'm 16" from hub to plastic and about 16.25" from hub to metal fender in front, and 17" in rear. FWIW I don't have a hitch.

    My install looks pretty much identical to yours. What I find odd is that there's a ridge about 3/8" up on the shock body that looks like it should be the thing we "rest on". I didn't do the install so I can't see if there's a natural stop where mine sit or not but I see both of ours with the ridge above the top of the clamp.

    What I also found interesting was I went and looked at the OEM struts in the box last night and it appears that the bottom of the shock sits below the clamp when stock as well. I can post pics of the marks of folks are curious, or someone with a stock suspension can take a pic. The other thing is there doesn't appear to be any "ridge" on the stock strut telling you where to stop. Agree with you that we're probably asking for trouble by scooting the strut "up" in the clamp. You definitely don't want that thing slipping in an emergency situation.

    Great info here. Thank you!
    That measurement will likely settle a little over time, not sure how full the tank is either. I also have no hitch installed. I will say the rear seems to float around a little more with it's happy place from time to time.

    The ridge that is there is likely just from manufacturing because the bottom piece is specific to the suspension application and how it is attached, likely the top is more universal. It doesn't provide info for seating position. The stop is on the spindle/arm that it sits in and is harder to see with the shock installed. The stock one is indeed the same way as far as sticking down a little.

    In the attached picture you can see where the stop is built in.Screenshot_20200526-211906.jpeg
    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by djn876 View Post
    That measurement will likely settle a little over time, not sure how full the tank is either. I also have no hitch installed. I will say the rear seems to float around a little more with it's happy place from time to time.

    The ridge that is there is likely just from manufacturing because the bottom piece is specific to the suspension application and how it is attached, likely the top is more universal. It doesn't provide info for seating position. The stop is on the spindle/arm that it sits in and is harder to see with the shock installed. The stock one is indeed the same way as far as sticking down a little.

    In the attached picture you can see where the stop is built in.Screenshot_20200526-211906.jpeg
    You rock

    That makes perfect sense and jives with the patterns I see on my take-off oem struts.

    So it looks like I either learn to love the height or go with something like the row springs with the b8s. I love the shocks.

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    '16 SQ5 ROW/BilsteinB8 CH-R 9s; 997.2 spasm 6spd; '18 Macan S. Many, many audis in the past...

  35. #35
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    Spring Perch?

    Quote Originally Posted by djn876 View Post
    Short version: Installed new suspension stuff, Bilstein/H&R combo is awesome, car looks better, smiles all around. Long version has a lot of DIY since I couldn’t find much out there for the (S)Q5 and hopefully it helps someone out in the future. My friend and I did the install and there are a couple helpful things that I’ll share below. Total time without messing with the rear end links was probably in the neighborhood of 5 hours or so, we could likely do under 4 for everything if we had to do it all again. Apologies for the large photos, not sure how to shrink them down.

    Long version/DIY:

    A spring/shock combo was the best value for what I wanted out of the car. I didn’t care for the height adjustability and the drop I would get from the Bilstein B8s and H&Rs would be good for all around use. And other than the PSS10, which are basically impossible to get now, everything pretty much needs to be removed from the car to be adjusted and I wasn’t interested in that. I also had a similar set up on a previous car and it was great so off I went. KW SCs were another option but more expensive and once the rebound is set would probably rarely ever get adjusted, and there’s additional cost for the adjustment extenders.

    Parts:

    Contacted our friendly neighborhood Mops for most of the stuff who as usually provided great service. I also elected to order the density line front strut mounts from 034 since the new set-up would be stiffer, and wanted to make sure the mounts were set. Also ordered a trans mount (already had ECS drive line inserts).
    Figured I would swap to the Moog end links since the fronts are taken off anyway and the rears are far more accessible. The rears are way easier to access with the shock removed, I didn’t end up using the rears though because I didn’t like the way they fit (soft or hard) with the 034 bar, bushings/bolting just didn’t line up right. The stock ones are so short I doubt there is much improvement in stiffness anyway.

    New parts list:

    Bilstein Shocks:24-145985 / 24-145992
    H&R Springs: 29001-3
    034 Strut Mount: 034-601-1003-TD
    034 Trans Mount:034-509-4025
    Moog Front/Rear: K750359/K750361

    Audi also made almost every suspension bolt a TTY bolt and therefore they are supposed to be replaced each time. I know a lot of people reuse them and are OK, I decided to get new ones. Spoiler alert, there’s a lot. If you don’t do the rear end links, it’s less, and I ordered hardware for both ends of the upper control arms since I wasn’t sure which side I wanted to remove, just ended up doing the strut mount end, so less to order there too. Here is the list of everything though. NOTE: A shop manual is helpful, the TTY bolts should be torqued properly and many of them are torqued in curb weight position (jack the suspension up to normal height).

    Item Description / Size / Part Number / Qty

    1. Upper Control Arm to Upper Strut Mount Bolt / M10x62x45 / N-104-253-02 / 4
    2. Upper Control Arm to Upper Strut Mount Nut / M10x1.5 / N-102-861-10 / 4
    3. Upper Control Arm Spindle Pinch Bolt / M10x110x24 / WHT-007-963 / 2
    4. Upper Control Arm Spindle Pinch Bolt Nut / M10x1.5 / N-102-861-10 / 2
    5. Upper Strut Mount Bolts / M10x35 / N-911-523-01 / 8
    6. Lower Strut Pinch Bolt / M12x1.5x80 / N-104-213-04 / 2
    7. Lower Strut Pinch Bolt Nut / M12x1.5 / N-101-064-02 / 2
    8. Lower Strut Mount to Control Arm Bolt / M12x1.5x85 / N-102-412-02 /2
    9. Lower Strut Mount to Control Arm Nut / M12x1.5 / N-101-064-02 / 2
    10. Front Swaybar End Link Upper Bolt / M10x45 / N-106-999-01 / 2
    11. Front Swaybar End Link Lower Bolt / M10x60 / N-105-707-02 / 2
    12. Front Swaybar End Link Lower Nut / M10x1.5 / N-102-861-10 / 2
    13. Rear Swaybar End Link Bolt / M10x65 / N-909-978-02 / 4
    14. Rear Swaybar End Link Nut / M10 / N-102-723-02 / 2
    15. Rear Lower Shock Mount Bolt / M14x1.5x90 / N-105-008-02 / 2
    16. Rear Upper Shock Mount Bolts / M10x40 / N-912-225-01 / 4

    Now on to the fun part:

    You will need a spring compressor (I borrowed from Autozone), basic set of tools, and a high torque impact will make things a lot easier. Buy a strut spreader from Amazon (VW 3424). Nothing really special. Note I also soaked everything in PB Blaster for a couple of days before getting started to try and ease disassembly, I only have about 40k miles, but not worth fighting with stuff. A second person is pretty much required for certain things for removal or install. If you have electronic damping you will have some additional parts to deal with.

    1. Measure and record the center of each wheel hub to the fender for use later when tightening things.

    2. Remove the front cowl cover and the two strut tower support pieces to allow access to the front strut bolts.


    3. Rear Suspension:
    a. Started in the back since the springs seemed like they would be the most likely to be a pain (spoiler alert, they were). Note that on the left side is the headlight level sensor, unbolt it from the control arm so it doesn’t get damaged during the work.
    b. Remove two upper strut bolts, I had to trim the wheel well liner a little to get good access to the bolts. Just use a razor blade.

    c. Take off the rock guard and remove lower strut mounting bolt. This is where a high torque impact is nice, this one would be a PITA to get off otherwise.

    d. Remove the shock. Now’s the time to do the rear end links if you want (or after the spring as it’s a lot easier to raise up at that point with no spring tension).
    e. The rear spring will come out a lot easier if you unbolt the brake caliper (like you are changing the pads), this will give you another 4 or 5” of room, and unbolting at least the end link from the sway bar will allow more suspension movement to bounce it when removing/installing the spring.

    f. Compress the rear spring as much as possible using the tool and pry it out. A second person can leverage the suspension down to get more space. The new spring was around 2” shorter and isn’t as bad to get in, just bounce the suspension down while pushing it in. I didn’t use the compressor at all for the new one. Make sure the springs are properly seated in the perch before reinstalling.
    g. Re-use the stock mount, bump stop and shield (I trimmed them at the first ridge from the top on front/rear – JHM has a good picture for their springs and the drop was going to be similar). Assemble the new one noting the proper order for everything as you disassemble the old one.
    h. For reinstalling the rear shock, if you are quick, you can fully compress it and then get it set in place without much effort.
    i. Marvel at your efforts, then realize you still have a bunch to do, the fronts are actually easier though.

    4. Front Suspension:
    a. Pull the ABS wire out of its clip so it doesn’t pull while moving stuff around, the brake line will be fine.

    b. Unbolt the front end link from the lower shock fork/mount. I just took all the way out to replace it.

    c. I unbolted the upper control arms from the strut mount instead of fighting with the ball joints. A little more complicated to reinstall but nothing that bad. Swing them towards you and out of the way. Note that the spindle and brake rotor and going to move a lot when these are disconnected.

    d. Unbolt both the shock lower mount/fork part attached to the control arm and the pinch bolt at the top. Insert the strut spreader, rotate 90 deg and leave it in place, and you should be able to wiggle everything to get the lower strut mount/fork piece out. The spring and shock will now be hanging from the 4 bolts up top and that’s it.

    e. Go back up top and unbolt the 4 upper strut mount bolts, support the assembly or its going to just fall out after the last bolt is removed. It’s not super heavy, just awkward. Tilting the brake rotor and spindle towards the front of the car will allow plenty of room to take it out.

    f. Use the spring compressor just to take tension off the mount to remove the bolt, and so you don’t shoot the mount across the garage.
    g. Reuse the spring perches, washer, bump stop (trim again), and rubber mount (unless you buy the new one. Again pay attention to the way everything came out. The bilsteins came with a new nut and washer this DOES NOT replace the washer that came off of the shock under the mount. The new one is meant to go on top with the new top nut since it doesn’t have the built in washer.
    h. Once reassembled, put it back in and loosely install the 4 top mount bolts, don’t tighten anything down until its all back in.
    i. Reinstall the fork/lower mount using the strut spreader to help. Again put the bolts/nuts in but keep them loose. The shock should bottom out in the lower mount, there is a little lip/tab that keeps it from going all the way through. Remove spreader once it is in place.
    j. Reinstall the upper control arms, keeping the bolts loose.
    k. Tighten up the bolts as follows:
    i. Upper strut mounts:
    1. Inner Cowl Bolt
    2. Inner Engine Bay Bolt
    3. Outer Cowl Bolt
    4. Outer Engine Bay Bolt
    ii. Jack the suspension up to nominal ride height.
    1. Lower shock mount to Control Arm
    2. Lower shock mount pinch bolt.
    3. Upper control arms, get both sides snug, then have someone push the spindle towards the inside of the car while you tighten them. This will prevent too much unnecessary preload on the bushing and prematurely wearing out.
    4. Once everything is in place, the end link can go back in, don’t fully tighten until the car is back on the ground, these are easy to get to from under the car.
    l. Wheels on, lower the car, torque wheels, tighten end links. Should look like this when it is all done.

    m. Clean up your stuff and go drive the car.

    Once you finish your headlights are probably going to be aimed into the dirt so go adjust those too. Find a flat surface (probably a shopping center). They should drop 1 inch from the center of the lens over 25 feet.

    Note: I recommend doing this via VCDS to set the new home position to make sure they maintain the proper range for the level motors (could result in soft code if it goes out of the expected range). On newer models, the adaptation is done under 09 – Central Elect / Basic Settings / Group 011. Clcik ON/OFF/NEXT, it will say WAIT, then Adjust headlights, when done click ON/OFF/NEXT again and it will have learned the new home position. Headlights must be in ON, not AUTO, while this is done.
    The ride honestly feels better than stock, dive/squat are much better controlled and slide in the corners is very predictable. I have pilot sport a/s 3+ on the car and I will lose traction before I feel the car is at it’s suspension limits. No more roll feeling. So far it dropped about 2”, we will see where it settles out in a couple hundred miles. Was about ~18” from the center of the hub to the fender, and is now about 16”, the back is floating more than the front but will settle around there if I had to guess. Alignment check to follow. Here is a quick before and after, but it had practically 0 miles on it at the time.





    The trans mount was an awesome upgrade as well, a little bit of low RPM vibration from the trans now, but it shifts SO much nicer, doesn’t feel like the driveline is bouncing around and hammering the crap out of everything. I HIGHLY recommend it for the 30 bucks, especially if you are tuned and don’t mind a little vibration. I rolled the windows up with the radio off briefly and didn’t really hear any trans whine, but A/C was off and it was only for a minute so can’t speak to that yet. I am guessing the vibration may be a little much for some, but I love it.
    So I have this similar setup to install and I was goofing around and loosely assembling the spring onto the strut…where the spring sits (which I am guessing is called the spring perch?) is just a silver ring held in place by a rubber band around the strut body with no indentations which indicate where the spring is supposed to sit so it appears that everything can just spin freely with no set orientation. Is this right? Is something from the old struts supposed to transfer to the new Bilstein?
    Strut PN 24-145985
    H&R Spring 29001-1

  36. #36
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    So you have a picture of what you mean? There is a rubber perch that will transfer over, those have spots for the spring to sit in, it will make sense when you get the old ones out. Take pictures before you disassemble so you know how everything went together.

    Sent from my SM-G988U using Audizine Forum mobile app
    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by djn876 View Post
    So you have a picture of what you mean? There is a rubber perch that will transfer over, those have spots for the spring to sit in, it will make sense when you get the old ones out. Take pictures before you disassemble so you know how everything went together.

    Sent from my SM-G988U using Audizine Forum mobile app
    Ahhh ok it makes sense now. That rubber piece is the missing link. Thanks! Some other struts have the spring profile pressed into the cup so the spring has to sit a certain way. So am I right in thinking that this strut can be installed in any 360 Degree orientation? Of course I’ll want the Bilstein logo facing outward


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  38. #38
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    AZ Member #
    377505
    Location
    PA

    Yeah they aren't side specific since they slip into the mount and everything. Its definitely one of those things that makes sense once you are in there working on it.

    Sent from my SM-G988U using Audizine Forum mobile app
    Custom DP 194/57 E40 Water-Meth (Aquamist) | BG HPT ZF8 Tune | APR CPS with AWE Reservoir (Divorced Coolant Loop) | APR Open Intake and 034 Intake Tube | RSE Heat Shielded HFCs | CTS Downpipes with Vibrant UQ Resonators Added | AWE Touring Exhaust | 034 RSB | Bilstein B8 Shocks and H&R -3 Springs | ECS Trans and Drivetrain Inserts | 034 Trans and Motor Mounts | Moog Front End Links | Headlight Projector Retrofit and Painted Housings

  39. #39
    Junior Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Feb 20 2021
    AZ Member #
    588190
    Location
    Trinidad

    Thanks for the info!

  40. #40
    Junior Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Feb 20 2021
    AZ Member #
    588190
    Location
    Trinidad

    Quote Originally Posted by djn876 View Post
    Yeah they aren't side specific since they slip into the mount and everything. Its definitely one of those things that makes sense once you are in there working on it.

    Sent from my SM-G988U using Audizine Forum mobile app
    Can you give me some advice on trimming the bump stop(s)? I ordered the Bilstein B8 shock kit from FCP Euro that includes new bump stops etc. How much do I need to trim?
    IMG_2411.jpg
    Front 8R0412131D and Rear 8K0512131 (I think)


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

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