ZF8- anyone else just NOT a fan of this transmission?

[TomPaul10]

Recently picked up a 2015 panther black SQ5, ive always loved the SQ's whenever I saw them and am not foreign to the 3.0L SC power plant as I've had a 10' S4.
my experiences so far has been reflecting upon how this transmission performs, yes ZF is buttery smooth, BUT the 8 gears and the ratios to me at the moment are bizarre and depending on how much pedal engagement dramatically effects its response. 3/4ths mashed the car hits 1st hard and just immediately bypasses 2nd into third and doesn't want to climb into the Rpms. secondly this cars peak torque figure is if I'm correct is about 3800 rpms. so where you're extracting the power which is at the top of the power band, the car seems to not want to climb up there! obviously this is ZF and gear ratio related, but it just seems there needs to be awful lot of pedal engagement to really run- there's no happy medium im finding. yes im picking apart something that might seem dumb but its ALL I can think about and fickle with when Im driving. also does not help im coming from a 16' S3- definitely a change of pace.

let me know if any of you guys have experienced this "sensation" or have any input on my thoughts.

[Anomious]

I don't like the ZF 8 speed... The best that I have ever driven was the "DSG" in my MK5 VW, R-32.

"LK"

[choppstixxx]

They do make TCU tunes as well that will help with shift point issues that you are describing.

[GarbatyA4]

I think it all has to do with the tuning.

I've had a BMW 335i and the ZF was awesome! did exactly what I wanted.

Currently have 2012 Q5 2.0T and its the most awkward shifting slush box.
Also, have tested the SQ5 and noticed it was almost there but not quite BMW.

Like the above member said, tuning will solve your shift point issues.

[MN Blue S4]

I agree. I've always felt like ours shifts very awkwardly. I even took it to the dealer and asked them to verify it was operating correctly and they said it was. Especially in the 1-2 gear shifts it seems to be very inconsistent to the point I sometimes feel like a 16 year old kid just learning how to use a clutch. While the DSG in my S4 certainly has its quirks I do tend to prefer it over the SQ5.

[Whinny SQ5]

I also agree. I do not like how it behaves when it's in D or S. But I don't really care because I always drive in manual mode.

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[Mythdoc]

I also agree. I do not like how it behaves when it's in D or S. But I don't really care because I always drive in manual mode.

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+1

[VroomVroom]

I'd equate it to a bell curve. For the most part, I'm just fine with it. Having eight gears is really nice, and it covers the mix of commute/task driving quite well. On the plus side, WOT blasts from a stop on level ground are a joy. Sport mode rarely lets me down (and also works great in what I call "traffic" mode. In the bay area it can take 90 minutes to travel 20 miles, and in those seemingly endless 0-15mph cycles it's a sanity saver) and manual shifts are very pleasantly quick. On the negative side, hills (up, but occasionally down) seem to confuse all hell out of the transmission. 1-2, 2-3, and even 3-4 upshifts are harsh, slow, erratic, and frustrating. Worse, downshifts that should be (and occasionally are, adding to the mystery) smooth and flawless are slow, and often incredibly jerky...sometimes requiring near full-throttle to engage.

I've not done any drivetrain mods, but I'd prioritize a TCU tune as #1 on the list.

[Whinny SQ5]

I'd equate it to a bell curve. For the most part, I'm just fine with it. Having eight gears is really nice, and it covers the mix of commute/task driving quite well. On the plus side, WOT blasts from a stop on level ground are a joy. Sport mode rarely lets me down (and also works great in what I call "traffic" mode. In the bay area it can take 90 minutes to travel 20 miles, and in those seemingly endless 0-15mph cycles it's a sanity saver) and manual shifts are very pleasantly quick. On the negative side, hills (up, but occasionally down) seem to confuse all hell out of the transmission. 1-2, 2-3, and even 3-4 upshifts are harsh, slow, erratic, and frustrating. Worse, downshifts that should be (and occasionally are, adding to the mystery) smooth and flawless are slow, and often incredibly jerky...sometimes requiring near full-throttle to engage.

I've not done any drivetrain mods, but I'd prioritize a TCU tune as #1 on the list.

You're right about those downshifts. For the most part they are good, but sometimes they are really jerky.

I do like blasting it from a standstill. Beats the DSG in the S5 off the line.

I do like the ZF8. It's a pretty fast and reliable transmission. It's also lighter than the DSG (not that it really matters in a 4400 pound car). It for sure has the DSG beat in reverse. God, backing up into a tight garage or parking spot is a pain with the DSG. Also, the ZF8 goes through the gears a lot faster than the DSG. I can upshift multiple times in a row in the SQ and the ZF goes into gear right away (shift shift shift). In the S5, there's a delay (shift----shift----shift). However, the opposite is true when downshifting.

I like both transmission, and I wouldn't say one is better than the other. They each have their qualities.

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[Bezlar]

I think my 19sq5 shifts just fine in sport. Drive is very laggy but that’s the computer. I think in sport it’s probably better than my rs3’s dsg.


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[MSq5]

I am a big fan of the ZF8, and I come from a long stream of manual transmissions. The off the line umph is absolutely astounding, especially with AMAX activated.

Any other concerns I had regarding the upshift patterns have been addressed in my HP Tuners TCU tune. This transmission, or various iterations of it is serving in some of the highest performing cars in the world.

Perhaps the TCU tune Audi specified for the SQ/Q may be on the softer shifting side, but if you want firmer or faster or different upshift rpm or different AMAX activation, extending or eliminating the AMAX counter limits that can be remedied with an aftermarket tune.

The same can be done with the downshift patterns, especially for those tracking the car on road courses.

EPL has a tune. HP Tuners has the software and hardware for self-tuning. The adjustability of the transmission is virtually endless.

[Charles.waite]

Given some of these complaints, I really think some of you guys need to change the transmission fluid. I did it (along with the filter) in my 8-speed 2.0t and it helped a ton with some of the weird issues like hard shifting in lower gears, wonky engagements sometimes, and rough downshifts. I highly suggest it, it’s really not expensive for supplies and the only fancy tool you need is VCDS to monitor trans fluid temps.

[VroomVroom]

FWIW, my observations come from just-after-brand-new in '13 Q and '16 SQ models, so I haven't considered fluid flush/replacement.

[Silver_Bullet]

Before this I had a 6 speed manual, so I also thought this 8 speed was a bit bizarre in its actions and gear selections. But I have gotten used to it. One thing that helped a lot was toggling VCDS to show the gear the car is in all the time. If I'm getting ready to make a move I hit the paddles and get in the right gear so that I have immediate power off the gas pedal. Then this thing immediately rips when I want it to. Also, get an engine tune to maintain boost at the higher rpms instead of bleeding it off like Audi does.

My next step is to get the TCU tuned and then I think I'll truly love the 8 speed.

[TomPaul10]

I agree the ZF in daily non spirited purely commute driving is phenomenal, but the programming from factory on the TCU is dramatically lacking, I miss the dual clutch so much now, and weirdly regret why did I not just get into a 8.5 S4 since my needs for an SUV aren’t a “must need” I’m single no kids and I’m mid 20s. Only thing I haul around is my DH bikes on long drives.

Besides that tangent I imagine a tune and a pulley shall change my mind, but I will say it is by far the most comfortable car I’ve driven and tracks SO well due to its weight, little understeer and sometimes unpredictable since it’s a bit numb up front, but I can’t wait to take it on a long haul, where I think I’ll begin to truly appreciate this car for its actual purpose- which is a crossover.

[scottst]

I think there may be something wrong with yours. The ZF8, especially the way it is tuned in the b8.5 SQ5 is IMO the best auto I've ever driven.

Shifts incredibly fast. Downshifts when I need it to. Sport mode is phenomenal.

Better than the PDK in my wife's Macan S in nearly all cases.

[Charles.waite]

That’s why I’m saying a fluid change is worth giving a shot. I did mine at 65k miles. It’s a 2.0t and therefore really couldn’t have seen much abuse and it was still pretty gnarly in the oil pan magnets. The transmission isn’t perfect, an automatic never will be, but it’s damn good. With the IE tune, I definitely feel it slip a bit too much in drive sometimes but in Sport mode it’s very snappy and honestly behaves itself very well. Downshifts a quick and the thing just moves. I’m a manual till I die sort of guy, but give me this transmission with some decent paddle shifters and is not be too upset...

Its light years better than the 6-speed ZF in my old b7. That thing was junk.

[mc_marto]

Have any of you, experiencing such issues, tried to reset the transmission adaptation? It might be worth trying.


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[Charles.waite]

Resetting the adaptation isn’t going to be a lasting fix. It’s constantly relearning and recalibrating.

[SQive]

Yeah, but I've heard of it helping before on these threads. . .might have been a couple of years ago. Just like changing the fluid, it's worth a shot.

[TomPaul10]

Yeah, but I've heard of it helping before on these threads. . .might have been a couple of years ago. Just like changing the fluid, it's worth a shot.

This is also my thought as well, I know the ECUs are adaptive and it is my 4th day driving the car, it seems the owner before me definitely babied it very much, I’m continuously driving in sport just pushing the car on purpose, in some instances it does from tonight’s drive home from work seem to be getting better adaptively to my driving, might also look into flushing as posted before.

[TomPaul10]

I think there may be something wrong with yours. The ZF8, especially the way it is tuned in the b8.5 SQ5 is IMO the best auto I've ever driven.

Shifts incredibly fast. Downshifts when I need it to. Sport mode is phenomenal.

Better than the PDK in my wife's Macan S in nearly all cases.

In sport it definitely is much better than D obviously, maybe there is something off as other posts have stated they love it with the enthusiasm you state. I will say atm my car BARELY pulls to 6k and immediately drops that gear and goes up, not going to redline, and that’s mashed which shouldn’t be the case.

Also not sure if I’m just so accustomed to the DSG and my previous S3 which had a very aggressive DSG TCU tune, and my older S4.

[TomPaul10]

That’s why I’m saying a fluid change is worth giving a shot. I did mine at 65k miles. It’s a 2.0t and therefore really couldn’t have seen much abuse and it was still pretty gnarly in the oil pan magnets. The transmission isn’t perfect, an automatic never will be, but it’s damn good. With the IE tune, I definitely feel it slip a bit too much in drive sometimes but in Sport mode it’s very snappy and honestly behaves itself very well. Downshifts a quick and the thing just moves. I’m a manual till I die sort of guy, but give me this transmission with some decent paddle shifters and is not be too upset...

Its light years better than the 6-speed ZF in my old b7. That thing was junk.

Do you think it’s worth considering deeper into a flush even with 40K on the odometer? And you stated “IE” are you running integrated engineering’s TCU tune ?

[Charles.waite]

Do you think it’s worth considering deeper into a flush even with 40K on the odometer? And you stated “IE” are you running integrated engineering’s TCU tune ?

It could be, it honestly depends on how the transmission is behaving. Mine was getting a bit “hung up” and had a weird shudder on 3-2 and 2-1 downshifts and was shifting pretty rough/jerky on 1-2 and sometimes 2-3 shifts. Sorta clunking into gears at low loads and partial throttle. A filter change is not totally necessary but I wanted to do it while I was in there. I got 6L of the ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid and post-flush it shifted much better. Even the wife noticed that it drove much smoother afterwards. So im not saying it’s going to fix everyone gripes with the transmission but if you feel like “no way is this how the transmission was supposed to behave when it left the factory” you could probably use a fluid change. Mine was at 65k but I believe the car saw a lot of low speed stop and start “city” driving so the transmission has gotten a workout.

And I just have an Integrated Engineering ECU tune. They don’t do a TCU tune for the q5 to the best of my knowledge. I went with them because you can tune at home with their dongle and it was on crazy sale, something like 30% off, for Black Friday last year. Was a present for the wife since she was complaining about how the Q was too slow since those bastards at Audi gave her a 3.0t loaner...

[DiscoDan]

Ever drive a Chrysler product (ram truck or jeep) with a ZF8? The software controlling them is pure shit, which is typical for Dodge, Jeep, etc.

[tmoe]

Do you think it’s worth considering deeper into a flush even with 40K on the odometer? And you stated “IE” are you running integrated engineering’s TCU tune ?

Concerning changing trans oil, I changed at 35,000 miles (earlier this year - lightly driven Q) and it really didn't change the behavior of my 8HP but I have an early model from 2013. Since 2013 there have been a number of different versions so there could be differences. I think a lot of your complaints can be resolved with a tune, not sure about IE but EPL has one and the ultimate in my mind is HP Tuners as you change it to suit what you want in a trans behavior, slow around town and everything associated with performance. The trade off is the time to learn what matters, lots of help from others on the forum and lots of logging.

With the 8HP tuned I don't have any complaints anymore and if I want to change upshift downshift based on trans id and percent throttle it's pretty easy to change.

[dubgli]

i started with a mk2 tts dual clutch, then a 2011 tiguan K04 slush box, a 2016 s3 tcu tune, and finally the zf in the sq5.

the mk2 tts was the best out of all these cars. The tiguan was not that great for spirited driving which it wasn't meant for. The s3 was great at speed but was horrendous at normal slow speed.

The zf was a breath of fresh air. i was afraid it would be like the tiguans slush box, but the zf is totally on another level. no jerkiness of the dual clutch down low and it shifts pretty darn quick and crisp at speed too. This was before I even received the epl tcu tune. now with the tcu tune, forget about it. I don't miss the dual clutch from the s3 at all. still miss the mk2 tts.



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[bajan01]

HP Tuners TCU tune has awoken my SQ5. Mind you I’m running a dual pulley E40 ECU tune, redlining at 7400rpm but even with a stock ECU tune I think that a TCU tune would be of some benefit.

[Salty Mope]

funny timing for you to bump this thread... just received my order from HP Tuners today. Probably won't be too agressive but looking forward to a few changes to try and improve WOT shift points and launch/torque loader settings.

[MSq5]

I just have a basic HP Tuners self-tune with help from a couple board members. Just raising the wide open throttle upshift point from 6,300 to 6,900 rpm and activating AMAX for three gears rather than the first two, and increasing AMAX torque converter stall to 2,800 rpm has been transformational. Some here are setting upshift as high as 7,200 and even 7,400 with supporting mods. Now that I am dual pulley and upgraded cooling I’m going to bump up wide open throttle upshift to 7,200. I’m on 93 octane pump gas. We have no readily available ethanol here so I doubt going higher would help much.

Now, I’m trying to learn more so I can firm up Sport mode shifting a bit more.

This transmission has literally thousands of user adjustable options in those maps that can be changed with HP Tuners.

[SQive]

This transmission has literally thousands of user adjustable options in those maps that can be changed with HP Tuners.

That's what we call "a lot of rope" (to hang yourself).

[MSq5]

That's what we call "a lot of rope" (to hang yourself).

Indeed! Absolutely. We need to go very, very slow with tiny incremental changes followed by testing, making only one change at a time, if venturing into anything beyond the basics. The point is that we are just scratching the surface of the capabilities of this transmission.

[RoofRails]

I have 2 dislikes about the ZF in sport mode one is when you are coming to a gradual stop and the tranny starts downshifting, it releases the gear it's in to move to the next lower gear so you go from a tremendous amount of gear resistance then to free wheel (zero resistance) and then back to gear resistance. It's feels like you are downshifting a manual and spent way too much time with the clutch pedal to the floor between gears. I'm not sure if this could be tuned out.

Second one that happens every now and again is I take off at maybe a little spirited at maybe .25 throttle and the tach never sees anything above 3k rpms before upshifting. I know this can be tuned out of the tranny. I'm just not sure what the sacrifice would be to do it. Fuel economy , comfort ?

I always have to remind myself that I drive in Sport all the time so how aggressive do I really want to go.



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[seanf86]

I have 2 dislikes about the ZF in sport mode one is when you are coming to a gradual stop and the tranny starts downshifting, it releases the gear it's in to move to the next lower gear so you go from a tremendous amount of gear resistance then to free wheel (zero resistance) and then back to gear resistance. It's feels like you are downshifting a manual and spent way too much time with the clutch pedal to the floor between gears. I'm not sure if this could be tuned out.

Second one that happens every now and again is I take off at maybe a little spirited at maybe .25 throttle and the tach never sees anything above 3k rpms before upshifting. I know this can be tuned out of the tranny. I'm just not sure what the sacrifice would be to do it. Fuel economy , comfort ?

I always have to remind myself that I drive in Sport all the time so how aggressive do I really want to go.



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the shifting at 3k rpm kills it for me, after getting my Q5 malone tuned last week its even more evident taking off in D, if I want to drive aggressively it has to be in S mode. The torque converter staying locked at low speeds make it feel like driving a manual and letting off the gas and it gets kind of jerky too.

Fluid was just changed back in June with Lifeguard8 and the stuff I drained out looked exactly like the stuff I put back in.

[Bezlar]

You guys are talking about all the reasons I love this transmission. Feels like a manual in s mode.


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[RoofRails]

You guys are talking about all the reasons I love this transmission. Feels like a manual in s mode.


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Now I feel bad..... I love my ZF8 too. I was just venting a little.

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[Bezlar]

Lol


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[SQive]

I've never used "D." What is it? But seriously, I always drive in manual mode. I only use sport mode on the track/racing because it (at least on the SQ5's) is very aggressive.

[MSq5]

I have 2 dislikes about the ZF in sport mode one is when you are coming to a gradual stop and the tranny starts downshifting, it releases the gear it's in to move to the next lower gear so you go from a tremendous amount of gear resistance then to free wheel (zero resistance) and then back to gear resistance. It's feels like you are downshifting a manual and spent way too much time with the clutch pedal to the floor between gears. I'm not sure if this could be tuned out.

Second one that happens every now and again is I take off at maybe a little spirited at maybe .25 throttle and the tach never sees anything above 3k rpms before upshifting. I know this can be tuned out of the tranny. I'm just not sure what the sacrifice would be to do it. Fuel economy , comfort ?

I always have to remind myself that I drive in Sport all the time so how aggressive do I really want to go.



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The low speed stuff around town is best handled in “D”. It’s tuned to soften up for that. If you want to exceed 25-30% throttle, switch to Sport mode or Manual. No auto transmission can handle everything in one mode.

I’d rather it not hold gear so long in Sport mode when letting up from wide open throttle, but I know that is for track or road course driving and is there for a purpose. When that happens, I just shift back to “D” and it upshifts and rpm drops.

I think a good ZF8 tuning philosophy for most conditions is to leave the default “D” and “S” shift patterns pretty much alone and change only the 100% and 104%(wide open throttle) shift patterns. That’s a good place to raise upshift rpm. Raise torque converter stall to 2,800 rpm or just 2,600 if you break traction, and extend AMAX hard launch upshifts to include the 3>4 shift.

For most other driving conditions I think Audi did a good job tuning the ZF8.

[Charles.waite]

Weird, I have none of these problems in my 6MT....

Trolololol!

But I’d agree the 8-speed isn’t perfect, it can get tripped up, particularly when the engine is tuned. In all though it’s by far the best automatic I’ve driven.

And having the extra ratios means getting off the line is QUICK, particularly with a 3.0t.