Just an FYI, TD1

[bobby1216]

found out that Audi's new software does in fact check for how many times an ECU is flashed. Regardless of what tune, if you flash the tune on or off, they will see the amount of flashes on the ECu, it will now get flagged as TD1 as I understand and no way to prevent this. From there, as I was told, your car is TD1, but, if they dont see a tune your car, the TD1 goes to a TD1 deactive status, so they know it was flashed, but TD1 is not active on the car, but again, ita flagged as TD1 deactive.

Not sure what this could mean if an issue arises if youre in "deactive" status, but thought I'd share this. I wouldn't let this stray from a tune, but if you are going APR, id recommend their "plus" option to cover the powertrain that the TD1 may void. just understand the risk vs reward (my tune stayed, no way i am going back!)

sorry if this is common knowledge, but I did confirm this to be the case and wanted to share.

[bajan01]

Some dealerships will scan with a generic reader and therefore won’t flag TD1.

[bobby1216]

May be the case, all I was told that if its connected, the new software automatically checks for ECU flashes everytime now and there is no way around it. as I consider a tune on my S6 (other Audi is already tuned) this was really important for me to know.

[Valpo A7]

Apr plus will keep your original factory warranty in tact because it is now CARB compliant. From what I remember reading there are some extended warranties that don’t care if it’s TD1.

[Barritia]

Some dealerships will scan with a generic reader and therefore won’t flag TD1.

On most warranty repairs they have no choice than to connect to the mothership. So basically if you blow a trans, turbo, drive shaft, engine etc etc your getting scanned no matter if they use a generic reader or not. They won’t cover it otherwise.

[mjfloyd1]

Apr plus will keep your original factory warranty in tact because it is now CARB compliant. From what I remember reading there are some extended warranties that don’t care if it’s TD1.

Why would APR Plus include a warranty if it “keeps your original factory warranty in tact”?

[kebabman]

Why would APR Plus include a warranty if it “keeps your original factory warranty in tact”?

It doesn’t, your car still gets TD1’d, APR just offer a matching warranty equivalent to the factory warranty with the APR Plus to cover what Audi won’t after the tune.

[Moosestache]

Apr plus will keep your original factory warranty in tact because it is now CARB compliant. From what I remember reading there are some extended warranties that don’t care if it’s TD1.

I don't think this is correct. APR provides you with an aftermarket warranty, that is why you pay the extra when you get the apr plus tune vs the regular old apr tune.

[kebabman]

It’s just a shame the APR Plus tune is only the 91 tune, significantly less power than the regular Stage 1 tune.

[Moosestache]

It is funny, I read these threads over and over and still people say I got this tune that allows me to unflash it at home before I go to the dealer. They will never catch me, and I don't have to pay the tuning shop $100 each time.

It is simple. If you flash figure your warranty is gone on anything that can be remotely tied to the flash, engine, transmission, turbo, supercharger................ Please don't tell people they won't catch you. Please don't tell people some dealers don't really scan, or the service manager is awesome at xxx shop and won't tell. Perhaps if you are lucky they won't, but an automaker is looking for reasons not to spend thousands of dollars on warranty repairs. They build the cars the way they do for a reason. They could do all the stuff we do to make them go faster. They don't because they weigh the value of that extra hundred hp, vs the extra wear and tear on the car parts and don't feel it is a good value. So Audi of America, who actually pays for the repairs, forces dealers to hook their cars that are coming in for major warranty repair issues to their system, and from what everyone says, can tell if you have been flashed. If they can tell, and your engine craps the bed, they aren't going to pay to fix it.

[Moosestache]

It’s just a shame the APR Plus tune is only the 91 tune, significantly less power than the regular Stage 1 tune.

This isn't true. It is exactly the same. Unless you mean vs the 93 tune or the higher octane tunes.

[kebabman]

This isn't true. It is exactly the same. Unless you mean vs the 93 tune or the higher octane tunes.

I’m pretty sure Arin@APR posted here it’s not, at least for the RS7. Need to find the post.

[Moosestache]

Ok, sorry I was looking at the a6/s6 tunes.

[kebabman]

Ok, sorry I was looking at the a6/s6 tunes.

No worries, it may well be the same for other models. For the RS7 I think it’s the 91 tune, website lists 656hp vs 674hp for the stage 1 tune...but then the 91 tune is listed at 645hp so who knows really what tune it is. I was just going on a comment that Arin@APR had made on here.

Edit: haven’t found his post on the RS7 but seems it’s true for the RS3 too, see here: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...7#post13628547

Makes you wonder though why APR won’t warranty the standard stage 1 93 tune doesn’t it?

[Dirt]

Apr plus will keep your original factory warranty in tact because it is now CARB compliant. From what I remember reading there are some extended warranties that don’t care if it’s TD1.

I wish this was true but it’s not. Sorry.

[Valpo A7]

Ok, I just went and re read the APR plus warranty and it is basically a sep warranty but it is for the length of the factory warranty which is where I was getting confused at.

[overclocked]

On the S6/S7 cars I read that usually not much goes wrong, but turbo failure at some point, typically post 40K miles and the motor mounts also prone to failure. If turbo blows it is definitely stage 3 time for me, so saving up $ for that eventual bill, and motor mounts, well that is not related to tunes I would hope, and is covered. The dealer I work with also said the same thing.

[430hps4]

It's all in the dealers hands on how to handle modifications. I had a B7 A4 with APR GT28RS Stage 3 setup and had a cam follower get chewed up and mangled a cam.

Audi still covered the repair...

[mjfloyd1]

It doesn’t, your car still gets TD1’d, APR just offer a matching warranty equivalent to the factory warranty with the APR Plus to cover what Audi won’t after the tune.

Exactly my point. The statement made zero sense.

[tomserv0]

So then, is there a safe and reliable way to chiptune an Audi anymore at all without automatically voiding your factory warranty? As some are claiming, if this is a direct and per-forma tactic by every Audi dealership, then there's no practical way to avoid getting TD1-ed with a hardware chip tune.
These piggyback modules mostly work, but V6t owners seem to claim there's latency on the inputs, I assume the same on a V8t and other engines as well? Thirdly.. how can this even be legal to void the entire vehicle warranty based on a software change?


I'm used to dealing with VWs, and in my experience across multiple models and a half-dozen dealers in several US states and Canadian provinces none of them blacklist a car for tuning, and they don't even care about the tune unless it directly impacts a maintenance or warranty issue. ie: wear & tear on the clutch, or rear diff due to editing your Haldex controller bias, no problem. But blow up your turbo and they'll sure charge you for it. That's a common sense practical approach which it sounds is not Audi's attitude anymore. This is especially galling since some Audi dealers actually are aftermarket tuning resellers too - there are quite a few worldwide who represent HGP or ABT.

[ClaudeG]

You said, new software, is that software in the car or the equipment at the dealership?

I’m sure you mean equipment at dealer, but doesn’t hurt to ask.

[baldy]

There's another piece to the puzzle for the TD1 as well. The CVN (calibration verification number) number changes when you flash a generic tune (including the stock file), unless you flash exactly the file that was on your ECU. Search the Euro forums, they have more info on the subject.

[Dirt]

So then, is there a safe and reliable way to chiptune an Audi anymore at all without automatically voiding your factory warranty? As some are claiming, if this is a direct and per-forma tactic by every Audi dealership, then there's no practical way to avoid getting TD1-ed with a hardware chip tune.
These piggyback modules mostly work, but V6t owners seem to claim there's latency on the inputs, I assume the same on a V8t and other engines as well? Thirdly.. how can this even be legal to void the entire vehicle warranty based on a software change?


I'm used to dealing with VWs, and in my experience across multiple models and a half-dozen dealers in several US states and Canadian provinces none of them blacklist a car for tuning, and they don't even care about the tune unless it directly impacts a maintenance or warranty issue. ie: wear & tear on the clutch, or rear diff due to editing your Haldex controller bias, no problem. But blow up your turbo and they'll sure charge you for it. That's a common sense practical approach which it sounds is not Audi's attitude anymore. This is especially galling since some Audi dealers actually are aftermarket tuning resellers too - there are quite a few worldwide who represent HGP or ABT.

If you tune the ECU, you run the risk of voiding your powertrain warranty if the dealership catches you. There isn’t a one size fits all answer to this as some dealerships are more forgiving than others.

What do you mean by input latency with the piggyback? I think you’re talking about hesitation after input, but when does it do it and how severe is it?

You said, new software, is that software in the car or the equipment at the dealership?

I’m sure you mean equipment at dealer, but doesn’t hurt to ask.

Yes, at the dealership.

[Moosestache]

See, there is also Audi of America, who actually pays for the service. Your dealership may well not care at all, and may be happy to do the service, since they are paid by AOA to do it. However, AOA does not want to pay for warranty service and will look for reasons to not pay. It has been said that they can detect if you have been flashed and will TD1 you. People keep telling stories about not being tagged, but I haven't heard of many people who were tuned, had a major issue, and had things go well.

Listen, audi builds these cars to a certain standard. They have figured out that these cars will perform well at those levels and warranty them to do that. When you tune the cars you are putting more stress on the parts then audi has designed them for, and legally voiding your warranty. If you aren't caught, or are and audi still pays for the repair that is awesome, however, please understand and expect that if you tune and something breaks while under warranty you will probably be paying for it yourself.

[bhvrdr]

found out that Audi's new software does in fact check for how many times an ECU is flashed. Regardless of what tune, if you flash the tune on or off, they will see the amount of flashes on the ECu, it will now get flagged as TD1 as I understand and no way to prevent this. From there, as I was told, your car is TD1, but, if they dont see a tune your car, the TD1 goes to a TD1 deactive status, so they know it was flashed, but TD1 is not active on the car, but again, ita flagged as TD1 deactive.

Not sure what this could mean if an issue arises if youre in "deactive" status, but thought I'd share this. I wouldn't let this stray from a tune, but if you are going APR, id recommend their "plus" option to cover the powertrain that the TD1 may void. just understand the risk vs reward (my tune stayed, no way i am going back!)

sorry if this is common knowledge, but I did confirm this to be the case and wanted to share.

Did you hear this word of mouth from someone at the dealership or is there an AoA memo about this that supersedes the current TD1 memo? I only ask because its crazy the amount of misinformation dealership level employees hand out to the public.

Mike

[Barritia]

Did you hear this word of mouth from someone at the dealership or is there an AoA memo about this that supersedes the current TD1 memo? I only ask because its crazy the amount of misinformation dealership level employees hand out to the public.

Mike

From what I have seen with my own eyes on their screens is if you are TD1 it will say TD1 (active). My tune was the stock tune when I got flagged and my status says TD1 (Active). My service guy who is a friend says he’s not sure how you get the TD1 deactive as he’s never seen it or heard of it. So unless someone knows how to get this status I would assume that you would end up just like me in the Active mode even with stock tune.

Now I have had warranty work done numerous times that they covered. Even the motor mounts so they will work with you even with a active TD1. I would assume that a issue like the PCV going bad and filter getting clogged may also be covered as it’s a known issue not caused by a tune as just as many stock people got the issue as tuned have. But again this is just an assumption on my part. They would do there self a lot of harm if they didn’t fix known issues then blamed the tune. I wouldn’t buy a VW group car ever again.

[Moosestache]

I have no idea how other car companies do it, buy my guess is, if you are caught tuning your car/truck/motorcycle then you can hope they will cover warranty repairs but don't complain if you don't. Lots of guys I know with diesel pickups wait until the warranty is done before they tune their trucks because they know their warranty is at risk if they do.

[ClaudeG]

As a side note too, ANY modification done to a stock car, even bolt ons, would be subjected to a TD1 from what I have been told by a few different people I have met in my time.

I took my S6 in because there is an annoying high pitch sound that I get when I drive with my driver window down, the tech looked at it, and immediately said it was because I had tinted windows. Didnt matter that I said it was all the way down in the door, he said, if you want me to look at it, get the tint removed. Totally ridiculous. But it was me sharing that story when I had someone tell me they threatened to TD1 his car because he had a Oil Catch Can. I once had VW say (on an GOLF R) that my read view camera was not working because I changed the stock bulbs to LED bulbs, and that they made a one time exception to change the bulbs, but that if I had problems with the camera again, and they saw different bulbs they would have to void that part of my warranty. Absolutly stupid, because it did it on stock bulbs anyway. But that was indeed something that I had happen. Yes, I know that is not a tune issue, but just a story to share.

This goes back to what I have said, everyone can have different stories and experiences, doesn't make them true and correct everywhere, but they indeed can be facts that have happened. So thanks to the OP for sharing this, I am going to reach out to people I know just to see what they have been seeing.

We all take a chance when any mod is done on a car.

[ericw.]

As a side note too, ANY modification done to a stock car, even bolt ons, would be subjected to a TD1 from what I have been told by a few different people I have met in my time.

I took my S6 in because there is an annoying high pitch sound that I get when I drive with my driver window down, the tech looked at it, and immediately said it was because I had tinted windows. Didnt matter that I said it was all the way down in the door, he said, if you want me to look at it, get the tint removed. Totally ridiculous. But it was me sharing that story when I had someone tell me they threatened to TD1 his car because he had a Oil Catch Can. I once had VW say (on an GOLF R) that my read view camera was not working because I changed the stock bulbs to LED bulbs, and that they made a one time exception to change the bulbs, but that if I had problems with the camera again, and they saw different bulbs they would have to void that part of my warranty. Absolutly stupid, because it did it on stock bulbs anyway. But that was indeed something that I had happen. Yes, I know that is not a tune issue, but just a story to share.

This goes back to what I have said, everyone can have different stories and experiences, doesn't make them true and correct everywhere, but they indeed can be facts that have happened. So thanks to the OP for sharing this, I am going to reach out to people I know just to see what they have been seeing.

We all take a chance when any mod is done on a car.

I know someone who actually did get TD1 for an oil catch can on their S3 at Audi Marin.

[wwhan]

Little more info from Ross-Tech: Warranty Keys Facts - TD1, etc

"Here is a list of the "Warranty Keys" (as of 2018) that Audi and Volkswagen use:

Key Description Affected system
T10 Engine Tuning Engine is modified
T23 Powertrain Tuned Powertrain affected
TD1 "Vehicle Check Code" Software in the ECM has changed
TXD "Vehicle Check Code" Software in the ECM has changed
T40 Running Gear altered Changes to Brakes, Wheels, Suspension, Gearing including differential
T26 Exhaust modifications Non-OEM exhaust systems
T50 Vehicle Body alterations Body panels changed(non-OEM)/modified
T68 Interior Altered Non-OEM Trim or Interior
T90 Instrument Cluster changes Additional Instrumentation and/or NON-OEM cluster
USB Buyback Vehicle buyback, not qualified for CPO warranty
UST Vehicle totaled Vehicle totaled, no warranty, except emissions warranty"

[ericw.]

Little more info from Ross-Tech: Warranty Keys Facts - TD1, etc

"Here is a list of the "Warranty Keys" (as of 2018) that Audi and Volkswagen use:

Key Description Affected system
T10 Engine Tuning Engine is modified
T23 Powertrain Tuned Powertrain affected
TD1 "Vehicle Check Code" Software in the ECM has changed
TXD "Vehicle Check Code" Software in the ECM has changed
T40 Running Gear altered Changes to Brakes, Wheels, Suspension, Gearing including differential
T26 Exhaust modifications Non-OEM exhaust systems
T50 Vehicle Body alterations Body panels changed(non-OEM)/modified
T68 Interior Altered Non-OEM Trim or Interior
T90 Instrument Cluster changes Additional Instrumentation and/or NON-OEM cluster
USB Buyback Vehicle buyback, not qualified for CPO warranty
UST Vehicle totaled Vehicle totaled, no warranty, except emissions warranty"

I got 8/11. Not bad. lol

[bknewtype]

my friend got TD1 for plastidip on wheels. true story.

[Hofahome]

my friend got TD1 for plastidip on wheels. true story.

Damn! That’s some gestapo shit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lituoklis88]

Damn! That’s some gestapo shit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It was such a poor plasti dip job, that Audi concluded that it was definitely "hurting" the vehicle

[bknewtype]

Damn! That’s some gestapo shit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It was such a poor plasti dip job, that Audi concluded that it was definitely "hurting" the vehicle

there was a little overspray of plastidip that got onto the suspension and audi denied warranty work for it saying the plasidip is the reason for the creeks and rattle on the suspension...lol

[ItsLarryG]

No worries, it may well be the same for other models. For the RS7 I think it’s the 91 tune, website lists 656hp vs 674hp for the stage 1 tune...but then the 91 tune is listed at 645hp so who knows really what tune it is. I was just going on a comment that Arin@APR had made on here.

Edit: haven’t found his post on the RS7 but seems it’s true for the RS3 too, see here: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...7#post13628547

Makes you wonder though why APR won’t warranty the standard stage 1 93 tune doesn’t it?

I would venture to guess that it’s because some areas don’t have 93 octane available.