P1338 no fix with new sensor

[Osmosis]

I had my ICM modules go bad a few weeks ago and the other day, my car is stumbling at idle again. I have a 2.7t with APR stage 1, no other mods.

I changed all plugs, coils and ICM's. Car ran fine for a few weeks and now, I"m getting a P1338 code. I purchase a new camshaft pos sensor hoping that would fix the problem... NOPE!

I have no clue of how to fix this problem as of now since I replaced the sensor and I'm still getting the code and the car idles rough.

Help....Please

[PaperToast]

what gas are you running? hopefully its 91 minimum and good 91 at that (not 91 from joes gas shack)

[nick1980]

Messed with timing or cam chain tensioner etc recently?

[Osmosis]

i only run 92 octane in it.

I have not touched anything other than replacing the ICM's, coils and plugs.

I got a code P1338 and changed out the sensor with no changes. Car runs like crap before & after sensor swap.

[PaperToast]

checked/cleaned/replaced the MAF recently?

[Osmosis]

Yep! I had to go to Colorado for some training for work last month. My car sat @ a park n ride for almost 3 weeks. Inever had any issues with the car. I rebuild the motor/turbos/starter/alt about 20K miles ago, runs amazing. I get in my car when I get to the park n ride, the car has a stumble. I pulled the MAF and cleaned it with the appropriate cleaner, changed plugs, coils and then ICM's.

Car has ran fine for 3 weeks then . . . . . . I get a stumble when driving home from work a few days ago and get the code for crankshaft position sensor bank 1. I order the parts, install....clear the codes, no changes.

[PaperToast]

hmm . . . could put dielectric grease in all the connectors
i know they are very well sealed already, just trying to eliminate different things

another thing i was thinking, since it was sitting for a while, toss a can of bg 44k in with your next fillup

[Osmosis]

I already put dielectric grease in each coil pack....I"m type A+ when it comes to my cars and putting them together right the first time ;)

It's not a fuel thing, I get 94 octane at a local gas station for the same price as super in the area :) Fuel is good to go. I was told to chase it to the wiring harness :( I"ve no clue how to start that mess :( I did put a dvm to the plug and I see 4 volts. Manual says 4.5 so i'm close. need to get a different dvm to read to 4.x

[Osmosis]

I noticed that my new sensor from amazon is defective. One of the tongs inside the sensor was pushed back a few mm's. I purchased a new Bosch sensor, my p1338 code is gone but the car still runs rough. Now, I"m showing a P0300 and a P1340 code.

What next? new crankshaft position sensor?

[Osmosis]

Hey everyone, thank you for the replies and good info. It's been a while since I've been here, I recently had rotator cuff surgery and have not been able to do anything for the past 4 weeks. 2 more weeks in a sling & before I even get to start any PT That being said, I have been thinking about my codes. I replaced my camshaft sensor with a new bosh one...no change. Changed my crankshaft position sensor also. I am still getting the camshaft sensor bank 1 code. So, I still get the camshaft sensor code with a miss@ idle. I found an interesting article about shocking the camshaft tensioners which I was able to do with one arm while holding a flashlight in my mouth. Mechanics: Found: Camshaft Adjuster Fix!!! Consequently, this did not work

I no longer have the P1338 code but I still am getting the P0341 CPS A circuit or Bank 1 single sensor code along with the P0300 random misfire code :(

All I can think of is removing my valve cover and making sure the cam mark is in the correct position. I"m hoping to be able to do this with one arm. I can't lift my arm much above my belt line as of yet and it sucks!

Any ideas?

[Osmosis]

I just checked the voltage to the camshaft sensor on bank 1 and I got a consistent 5.02 volts with key on engine off, also engine on. From what I found that is the desired signal voltage to the camshaft position sensor.

What next? Valve cover and Cam timing chain inspection :(

[m_haiser]

I wouldn't try to do that with one arm man, the valve covers are actually a pain in the ass to lift off even with both

[Osmosis]

Glad I checked this thread. I am getting cabin fever. 4 weeks since I have worked out and watching TV and video games, let's just say I've had enough screen time to the point I'm bored stiff :( I almost started to unbolt the valve cover. Thank you....I think your right..gonna have to wait :(

[rollerton]

It's not the cam alignment. If the cam was off far enough you'd get cam timing/ correlation error. The cam-position-sensor error is almost always just the sensor. I've had a weird cam sensor error that would NOT clear either; even with new sensor. Oddly enough it DID eventually clear when I swapped the sensor from the other bank. I don't know about that, but it worked.
I always suggest people just unplug the sensor and drive and see if you get additional/ different codes, see if the misfire changes or quits. I'd guess if you disconnect it and the error doesn't change to open circuit/ short to plus then it's wiring.

[Osmosis]

Thank you for the info! I"m getting good voltage to the sensor with KOEO and while the engine is running. 5.02v to be exact. Brand new bosch sensor. I drove the car around the neighborhood with the sensor unplugged. Then plugged it in and the car ran fine, it just idles like crap + getting the P0300/0341 code. My only concern is that I've heard of the P0341 code causing a no start condition and I don't want to be stranded somewhere :(

So, in regards to the short, how does one chase a short? All of my wires are nicely covered with the stock black covering to protect the wires. I would hate to cut though that stuff.

Thank you again for the help!!!

[Osmosis]

Well, I took a chance and drove it to the store today. It ran fine...excpet @ IDLE. Then, I go to start it and it didnt want to start. Second try, fired up and I drove it home. Now, I get a code p0340, not p0341 :(

WTEff

[rollerton]

Clear the code...then unplug the sensor and recheck and see what the error is with the sensor unplugged. It SHOULD change to open circuit / short to plus.
If it does then I'd say it is NOT any wiring problem, since the ECU is seeing the sensor correctly. At that point it's the sensor..maybe timing? Maybe chain tensioner?
Also try clearing the code, new sensor installed, everything totally normal. Open VCDS, engine module, start engine DO NOT REV at all. Does the code come back instantly at idle? --Or does it take a minute or need the RPM varied to set the error? If it doesn't come back instantly = timing?
Is the 'trigger wheel' thing on the end of the cam bent or dirty?
Try unplugging both sensors and see what errors they have- they should be the same right?
Also try swapping the sensors side to side, since you have no error for one sensor you know it's good.

[Osmosis]

rollerton,

First off, Thank You! This entire thing has been so frustrating after having surgery on my shoulder, unable to do squat and time to think about what is wrong with my A6 :(

Here is the interesting thing. I drove my A6 aprox 12 miles to the store. Check engine light never came on, country Hwy driving. Once I got to the city and was in stop and go for about 3 lights, at idle, the check engine light came on. Drove to 7/11. Got out then back in, car did not want to start the first time. Second try, she started with some protest. Then the check engine light stayed on the entire trip home.

Plan as of now is to do as you suggested and see what happens. I read that the P0341/0340 code can be caused by the camshaft chain stretching which is common in the VW Vr6...not sure if they are similar to the 2.7t's but assume they are? Anyway, that was why I was thinking of checking the timing marks.

For now, gonna try unplugging the sensor and go from there.

TY for the help!!!

[Osmosis]

I woke up today to clear codes and unplug the CPS and I ran the codes again just to be sure of codes. Today, I now have a P1340crankshaft position sensor code. I had this code, replaced the sensor and it has not came back till today after the car sat all night long.

I cleared all codes and just unplugged the bank 1 CPS and will drive it today, hope to find something.

I did, unplugged drove for 5 minutes after I had it in park for 10 minutes; total run time 15 minutes. I pull the code while driving unplugged P0300 misfire and P1338 CPS ???

Help :(

[Osmosis]

First off,

Thank you everyone for the help! I've been searching the forums and found a few where the camshaft tensionsers broke causing similar problems my car is having. That being said, I had to verify that was not the problem so I pulled the valve cover ... with one good arm, flashlight in teeth. Timing marks are in the correct spots with 16 links apart from timing mark to timing mark.

I put a 12volt source the the timing chain tensionser and grounded the other side and I could hear it click, but not see it move at all, I"m assuming this only changes upon a load to give more timing.

Once I put it back together, Now what?

Sorry, I was not ignoring your advise everyone, but I had to verify it was not something in the valve train, busted cam shaft tensioner.

Thank you guys a TON!!!

[Osmosis]

Well, It's back together and the codes are still there...p0300 and 0341 :(

Now what???

[Osmosis]

Well, I was felling ambitious and swapped the passengers side and drivers side camshaft position sensors, of course, no changes :( same codes = sensors are ok then.

I hooked up torque pro RT and found that my vacuum was between -10-12 @ idle. The low vacuum could be from a sensor which is making the car run like crud, however, it could also be a vacuum leak.

That's where I'm at, any thoughts at this point? The car runs fine unless it's @ idle.

I"m going to trace the vacuum lines and test them individually with a vacuum pump and hope I find something.

[chris86vw]

There is no manifold pressure sensor in these cars only a boost reference sensor which is before the throttle body and doesn't read manifold vacuum so I"m not sure what you believe you were reading with an OBD2 app, but it wasn't vacuum unless you added an actual MAP sensor.


The cam adjusters operate on oil pressure, they electronically control the flow of oil in and out so they will not move without oil pressure. Clicking is good but does not confirm the adjuster is actually moving.


I would suggest using VCDS or similar tool that can read measuring blocks and see if you have an actual reading from the cam position sensor, it will read in degrees and if you are getting a reading it will then let you know if it is wrong or not.

[Osmosis]

Bummer. I"m at a loss with my rough idle, codes yet runs fine.

In Torque, there is a setting to observe boost/vac. Guess I will have to hook up a vacuum gauge to see what it's running.

[chris86vw]

You need to look at can position not vacuum.

[Osmosis]

If you read above, I have already! Changed all sensors, pulled valve cover, cams are in the correct position. I opened up the valve cover to verify cam position & inspect Camshaft chain tensioner pads which were intact.

Car runs rough @ idle, but fine otherwise, gives me a P0341, 1338, 0300 code. When I added the setting in torque pro rt for boost/vacuum reading, my idle vacuum was reading between -10 and -12ish. I am going to find time this week to put a manual vacuum gauge on the car to verify this reading.

Even though I am getting codes, the car does kind of run as if it has a vacuum leak, however, I've used starter fluid and brake cleaner to see if I get a change in idle when I spray it over the vacuum lines with zero noticeable changes in idle.

[chris86vw]

If you read above, I have already!

NO YOU HAVE NOT!

Changed all sensors, pulled valve cover, cams are in the correct position. I opened up the valve cover to verify cam position & inspect Camshaft chain tensioner pads which were intact.

This has nothing to do with what I suggested which was:

"I would suggest using VCDS or similar tool that can read measuring blocks and see if you have an actual reading from the cam position sensor, it will read in degrees and if you are getting a reading it will then let you know if it is wrong or not."


P0341 is a code that comes up when the correlation between a cam position and crank position sensor make no sense to the ecu.. Not that the sensor isn't working or there is a wiring issue that the positions simply are considered outside of the range of acceptable or implausible. Which is why you need to read what I said not the other way around. You need to actually test and look at the position the ECU is seeing to understand why it is throwing that fault. You can only do this by using a program like VCDS that will show you actual degreed position of the cam sensor in relation to the crank.

When I added the setting in torque pro rt for boost/vacuum reading, my idle vacuum was reading between -10 and -12ish.

Stop repeating this.. you can't get a vacuum reading from a car that does not have a sensor to read it. It doesn't matter what the garbage app told you.


Good luck, you've been given all the information you need to proceed, if you refuse to use it then not worth anyone's time trying to help.

[Osmosis]

first off, your being an ass!

I understand you are trying to help me and there is obvious communication challenges we are having here. I did check cam position by visual inspection. I am currently out of work due to shoulder surgery so I can't afford to spend 200 on Vagcom right now. I do have the lite version, but that will not show me what I need to know which is where the ECU sees the reading of the sensor. And yes, I did repeat myself in an attempt to clarify my plans to put a vacuum gauge on the car to get an accurate reading at idle. I do understand that the OBD reading is not accurate.

I never said or implied that I was refusing said information you provided so don't jump to conclusions!

[chris86vw]

If you read above, I have already!

first off, your being and ass!

Act like an ass when asking for help you get responses on the same level, don't like it don't be an ass yourself.

Hope you recover..hope you can figure out the car.

Stop taking your problems out on other people.

[Osmosis]

chris, Reading my first post you quoted and I can see how it could have come across differently that I was intending. Obvious communication challenges and yet I never took anything "out" on you until you became rude. Maybe your reaction was in response to my first quote which was not intended to come across as you may have taken it. Like I said before, communication challenges and no voice inflections added to typing on a key board can easily be interpreted differently.

[KroutWagon]

How bad and how far did you have to drive after the ICM failed?
You could have fouled an O2 sensor. Confirm wich bank it is with VCDS.

[Osmosis]

Thank you for the input :) I rebuilt the motor @ 152K, now has 170K. I deleted precats, new O2 sensors down stream and upstream. I have not yet got any O2 sensor code, well, I did at first, but over the past 15k, no code given.

It's strange as if the car runs fine unless in idle/park. I did find a few Audi guys on youtube that showed how to verify the crankshaft pos sensor is getting a good signal with a volt/ohm meter, however, someone here said the v/o meter will not detect the signal because its too fast of a cycle...which makes sense when ya think about it.

My plan is to start checking wires and vac lines. Once I am able to move my L arm, I will also check the O2 sensors :)

[Osmosis]

After multiple searches, I found a thread regarding the symptoms and crankshaft position sensor seemed to fit. I replaced my CPS with no change. I exposed a small piece of wire to the signal wire and source wire on the ECU side of the CPS sensor. With the Key on engine off, I put a test light on to the signal wire. I could hear a click of the spark and fuel injector every time I touched the signal wire. I did this with the engine running and the motor would die if I touched either the signal and source wire.

Here is what seems to be unusual, not sure if it's normal or not? I put a volt meter to the two wires. When I have the connector to the CPS unplugged, I get a reading of 2.48v to both the signal wire and source wire. Now, when I plug the connector from the ECU to the CPS sensor, I get a reading of; Source wire = 0.03v, Signal wire = 0.05v

[Osmosis]

This car is driving me nuts! I really need some help and/or direction.

This problem started in April when I returned home from hazmat training. I noticed a stumble around 2000 rpms while driving on the freeway @ 60mph. I changed all coil packs, plugs, no change. I was thinking spark, fuel, air. No codes. I then swapped out coil packs and the problem resolved for 3 weeks. Then, a new problem with code P0341, p1338. So I swapped out my Camshaft and crankshaft position sensors. No change. Then, I swapped my bank A with bank B camshaft sensors. No change so it's not the sensor. I still got theP0341 code.


Since then, I changed my ECU to the stock ECU, no changes.
I exposed the passengers side valve train to find no obvious damage to the chain tensioners, plastic pads the chain rides on were in tact. 16 rollers between exhaust & intake with notches on the cams lining up.

I ran my VCDS Lite which did not show me much. However, I was able to look at the camshafts in relation to each other. I know that they should be the same while the engine is running. They were not in sync, different values were observed while the car was running.

I made a jumper from the bad camshaft position sensor and checked the voltage with KOEO and KOE- running. One wire was ground, one was battery power - 11.58, and the signal wire read 5v while the car was running and with key on engine off. I put my ohm tester on the signal wire with the audible beep and when the car was running, I would get an intermittent beep as the signal wire grounds momentary for the signal.

In regards to the camshaft position sensors, I followed Rollerton's advise. Unplugged bank 1 and drove it, then plugged it back in, no changes. I cleared the codes, no changes.
Then, I unplugged bankA and B Camshaft position sensors, car would not start.
I replaced the engine speed sensor/crankshaft position sensor, no change. This find is kind of interesting....
When I checked the voltage to the engine speed sensor/crankshaft position sensor, I found the ground wire, and both signal and voltage supply wires , voltage supply wire and signal wire both have 2.48v. This with Key on,engine off AND key on, engine running. I ran the Ohm meter with the audible beep when it was grounded and I got no intermittent beeping on the signal wire when the car was running.

Consequently, I'm not working right now due to rotator cuff surgery.....Which SUCKS in itself! And I just had a second surgery to my hand. Messed up thumb due to a judo injury 25 years ago. I ignored years ago which is now causing me pain, so I had the fixed. Makes it hard to type. Kids are bummed as I can't play video games for another month :( So, since I am not able to work right now, funds are tight so for now, I can not afford to purchase VCDS for me till next year when I get back to work.

I am busting my arse to get my car running. I have an F350 truck, but it's really hard to drive with a messed up L shoulder and a cast on my R arm, hence, I'm not driving for another month :(

Anyways, wondering if anyone has any thoughts how to resolve this issue my A6 is having?

My current thought is to remove both valve covers to make sure both cylinder heads camshafts are mechanically correct. Possibly could be bank A's camshaft tensioner is defective. I did test this with a test wire & I can hear it clicking...but maybe the tensioner is weak?

[Osmosis]

can anyone tell me what the voltage should read on the
Crankshaft position sensor, 3 wires so i assume the crankshaft sensor has a ground, voltage supply and a signal wire, however, I can not find any voltage values for this sensor?

[Osmosis]

SO Follow UP on the cam sensor codes and causes in case anyone else has a similar problems and uses the search button.

Well, my turbos have been going out for a while. I've been running the car basically with one good turbo and it is on its way out. Leaking oil from both turbos. I was going to trade my A6 in for an SS Camaro or Challenger SRT, daughter going to college next year = best option is to rebuild the engine and turbos. I figure if I am pulling the engine, I"m going through it again since it's such a PITA to get out of the car!

I did the timing belt about 20K miles ago, maybe 25K when I rebuilt the engine 3-4 years ago. As I'm pulling the engine apart, I find about a 1/4 inch thick, 2 ft long piece of timing belt missing! I would bet this is the culprit to my cam sensor codes showing up! Thank God the belt did not completely go and destroy my engine!

Now, which timing belt is best? I was warned to stay away from the Gates because they squeak.