From E90 335i to B8 S4, Any Regrets

[GarbatyA4]

I've previously owned a RWD 335i with Stage 1+FMIC. It was a blast.

Anyone here transition from a RWD 335i to a B8 S4.

Do you miss that turbo torque spike or does the single or dual pulley torque curve satisfy you?

Any regrets?

Thanks for your feedback.

Both great cars!

Tom

[j23a45m]

I’ve had both and I don’t miss the Bmw. I like them still but this is a better everyday vehicle I must admit.
The tq you will get a better feel in the Audi for sure!


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[GarbatyA4]

I’ve had both and I don’t miss the Bmw. I like them still but this is a better everyday vehicle I must admit.
The tq you will get a better feel in the Audi for sure!


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When I test drove an S5 with 3.0T. The power felt instantaneous like the old 4.2L V8.
I haven't been in a Stage 1 or Stage 2 S4 yet so I can't compare to my old tuned 335i.
I tried a friends stock S4 and it felt slow via on-ramp test in 2nd/3rd gear WOT.

[slmds4]

FWIW I had a 135 prior to my S4 and have zero regrets.

My BMW was constantly in for repairs (turbo replacement, HPFP, headlight repairs, misfire/timing issues) and it was a CPO car. While that car was fun, the Audi is also fun but way more reliable. I bought the Audi non CPO and have only had to do regular maintenance in 3 years of ownership.

[j23a45m]

When I test drove an S5 with 3.0T. The power felt instantaneous like the old 4.2L V8.
I haven't been in a Stage 1 or Stage 2 S4 yet so I can't compare to my old tuned 335i.
I tried a friends stock S4 and it felt slow via on-ramp test in 2nd/3rd gear WOT.

So is the car 6 speed or is it dsg?
If Dsg, then sport mode you definitely wants in it then!


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[GarbatyA4]

FWIW I had a 135 prior to my S4 and have zero regrets.

My BMW was constantly in for repairs (turbo replacement, HPFP, headlight repairs, misfire/timing issues) and it was a CPO car. While that car was fun, the Audi is also fun but way more reliable. I bought the Audi non CPO and have only had to do regular maintenance in 3 years of ownership.

Feel your pain. To be fair, my car had 140,000mi on it. I did turbos, water pump, fuel pump, headlight, blower motor, coil packs, power steering reservoir, thermostat, coolant line hoses, oil filter housing gasket, etc...

[peterpark0]

Feel your pain. It was the most high maintenance car i've ever owned. I did turbos, water pump, fuel pump, headlight, blower motor, coil packs, power steering reservoir, thermostat, coolant line hoses, oil filter housing gasket, etc...

I came from a 2009 335i RWD Auto, Stage 1 with IC. Only thing that died on me was the water pump. I did basic maintenance: Coils, Spark plugs, Oil changes etc. The car was amazingly reliable and a blast to drive, even on the stock sport suspension.
Purchased it at 53k miles, sold it at 100k miles. I would of kept it if it was Manual.

Found this 6MT S5 and purchased it. Everyone say it's super reliable... Purchased at 39k and within 10k miles of ownership:
- Clutch and flywheel had to be replaced
- Exhaust broke (My fault)
- Both HID bulbs had to be replaced at different times
- Random beeping issues
- Rusting rock chips on the hood
And now I have this clicking noise from the Axles/Suspension.

After joining this forum I'm reading about water pump issues, coolant loss, failing cats, bad wheel bearing, axles, DSG issues, failing motors & bunch of weird random issues... And it's scary! Reliable car ehhh?

Don't get me wrong, the B8.5 is a great car and I love it! But I'm going back to BMW after this car! Or something RWD.

[GarbatyA4]

Let's keep reliability to the side and focus on the power delivery experience.

[peterpark0]

Let's keep reliability to the side and focus on the power delivery experience.

I do miss the simple driving dynamics of the 335i.
- Hydraulic steering
- Stock sport suspension
- RWD
- Lightness
- Engine sits further back so there's a closer 50/50 balance.
- Silky smooth inline 6

The 335i just keeps pulling even after 100mph. Where I feel the S5 looses some power after 100mph, of course it still pulls just not as hard.

But we all know the S5 is faster on the quarter mile and I think faster in general.

[theweebabyseamus]

I miss the tunablity for cheaper on the 335, that’s about it.

[proxemus]

The good and bad of both 335 and s4/s5 (3.0T) ( i have a 13' s5 b8.5) these are all my experience with both cars and i had my 335 for 3 years and my s5 for 2
335 the good
Smoothness of a perfectly balanced i6 with little to no turbo lag.
pretty easy to work on due to everything is straight up and down ( minus the location of the turbos on the n54)
easily tuned to make 400rwhp
most of the stuff is pretty cheap
rwd just a blast
bmw has more of a driver feel to it
cons
shit broke on my 335 all the damn time i was always fixing something
go through a set of tires all the time
weak clutch from factory
07-09 turbos rattle
t stat and electric pump is a ticking time bomb
always cleaning vanos solinoids
always worried vanos would blow up
ignition coils with tune would fuck up every 20-30k
carbon build up
buns oil
no rear LSD
injectors common to fail

b8/8.5 s4/s5 CONS
electric steering module (j500 board) mine broke
drops on its face after 4k rpm if no tune
it feels heavy compared to the nimbleness of the bmw ( imo)
cant drift in summer ( unless u have a sport diff and u drive like a dick and have trash tires)
t stat is a waiting game if it fails or not ( mine is good i only have 38k on it)
Crank pulley is also a grenade
heavy
the audi awd vibrate ( hard to explain) when turning slow in a parking lot ( you know u drive audi if u know what i mean )
cats can fail
THE GOOD
Audi feels solid, bmw always felt like i was going to break it.. audi it feels more planted to the ground and just built better.
with a stage 1 it wakes the car up insanely. IMO if u own a 3.0T and didnt atleast get a stage 1 tune ur only using 50% of what this platform can do, even then im at stage 2 and i daily drive it and its been great
I know theres alot of hate for electric steering vs hydraulic i actually like the feel of it. low speeds its super light ( im lazy) to turn and once ur on the highway you cant tell the damn difference
u get LSD if u get a sport diff, u can drift the absolute F outta it in winter ( i love it lol )
Interior is way nicer then bmw, alcantara is my friend
instant power ( especially stage 2 or 3) from a dig ull destroy any 335 outta the hole (awd ftw) unless they have a 335 awd.. those arnt real 335's at that point ( bmws must be rwd imo)
motor is built extremely well and you dont feel bad if you shit rip it on a track.
They look sexy a f once you do a few things or get black optic

Im sure i am forgetting some but thats a start.. thats my two cents. take it as you want. TBH i would not buy another 335i, id have to buy a //m if i ever went back.

[ryanb2013]

The good and bad of both 335 and s4/s5 (3.0T) ( i have a 13' s5 b8.5) these are all my experience with both cars and i had my 335 for 3 years and my s5 for 2
335 the good
Smoothness of a perfectly balanced i6 with little to no turbo lag.
pretty easy to work on due to everything is straight up and down ( minus the location of the turbos on the n54)
easily tuned to make 400rwhp
most of the stuff is pretty cheap
rwd just a blast
bmw has more of a driver feel to it
cons
shit broke on my 335 all the damn time i was always fixing something
go through a set of tires all the time
weak clutch from factory
07-09 turbos rattle
t stat and electric pump is a ticking time bomb
always cleaning vanos solinoids
always worried vanos would blow up
ignition coils with tune would fuck up every 20-30k
carbon build up
buns oil
no rear LSD
injectors common to fail

b8/8.5 s4/s5 CONS
electric steering module (j500 board) mine broke
drops on its face after 4k rpm if no tune
it feels heavy compared to the nimbleness of the bmw ( imo)
cant drift in summer ( unless u have a sport diff and u drive like a dick and have trash tires)
t stat is a waiting game if it fails or not ( mine is good i only have 38k on it)
Crank pulley is also a grenade
heavy
the audi awd vibrate ( hard to explain) when turning slow in a parking lot ( you know u drive audi if u know what i mean )
cats can fail
THE GOOD
Audi feels solid, bmw always felt like i was going to break it.. audi it feels more planted to the ground and just built better.
with a stage 1 it wakes the car up insanely. IMO if u own a 3.0T and didnt atleast get a stage 1 tune ur only using 50% of what this platform can do, even then im at stage 2 and i daily drive it and its been great
I know theres alot of hate for electric steering vs hydraulic i actually like the feel of it. low speeds its super light ( im lazy) to turn and once ur on the highway you cant tell the damn difference
u get LSD if u get a sport diff, u can drift the absolute F outta it in winter ( i love it lol )
Interior is way nicer then bmw, alcantara is my friend
instant power ( especially stage 2 or 3) from a dig ull destroy any 335 outta the hole (awd ftw) unless they have a 335 awd.. those arnt real 335's at that point ( bmws must be rwd imo)
motor is built extremely well and you dont feel bad if you shit rip it on a track.
They look sexy a f once you do a few things or get black optic

Im sure i am forgetting some but thats a start.. thats my two cents. take it as you want. TBH i would not buy another 335i, id have to buy a //m if i ever went back.

+1 I came from an 08 135i stage 2. Recently i picked up a 2013 s4 and I agree with pretty much every thing proxemus says.... Especially the S4 interior is way nicer and more comfortable

[nguyendot]

I came from an F10 550i, we also had an E92 N55 335i. It was a fun car, the power delivery was awesome when boost hit. RWD had great dynamics. Not much broke on it. We had the kona looking interior so the leather was nice. The 550i was smooth but broke all the damn time. That one was JB4 tuned so high 400hp, but it was also heavy.

[Sporter4145]

Great question. Where to start:

Currently have 2013 M3 and 2015 S4. Summer car and Winter car due to living in Idaho. Other daily is a 2018 Ram 2500 CTD.

2013 BMW M3:
Great steering feel, and very linear power delivery.
Engine Exhaust note is awesome with the BMW M sport Exhaust from dealer.
Seats are little tight and entry exit a little difficult , I am 6'2" and 210.
Driver interface is not as pleasing as the Audi, but the Mdrive a little more intuitive.
Like being able to have a controlled slide around corners when appropriate,
Negative being that you need to be on your toes with a onramp and rain or slick roads.
Track car for 2-3 trips per year at Utah Motorsports. S4 is only around town/hwy.
Really a 2 person car, rear seat entry very difficult.
Looks are very subjective, but enjoy both cars for different reasons.

2015 S4:
Reverse most of the above items.
Overall the easier car to drive on a daily basis, year in and year out.
Much more comfortable interior.
B&O stereo rocks.
I have had a S4 with and without Sportdiff. Not a lot of difference in town and hwy ramps etc.
(above not a popular opinion on this board, but really not a game changer)
Love the adaptive cruise control, this is a game changer!
Love the Magma interior, makes you feel happy every time I get in.

Overall, both different cars (obviously). If I had to live with one, it would be the S4 due to living in Idaho. In a warmer climate maybe the M3, but still
not as comfortable a daily basis.

[sacandagaD]

Had first generation 335i ( 07 ) 6MT, put 50k on it and only had in shop for injector replacement, so I guess I got lucky. Fun power delivery when boost came on, handled and steered way better than my two S4's stock. Interior sucked compared to Audi. Used to put it away during winter since RWD. Can't see ever going back to that platform, although M2 is nice looking.

[proxemus]

Had first generation 335i ( 07 ) 6MT, put 50k on it and only had in shop for injector replacement, so I guess I got lucky. Fun power delivery when boost came on, handled and steered way better than my two S4's stock. Interior sucked compared to Audi. Used to put it away during winter since RWD. Can't see ever going back to that platform, although M2 is nice looking.

New M2 have a detuned version of the s55😍 aka tune it up a bit and will murder tuned m4s cause of like 500lbs lighter

[Dr GP]

Only thing I missed was the exhaust sound. Had 3 B8/8.5 S4s and never thought about going back to a 335i or similar. In fact i wish I still had my S4. I would consider an M2 if I was going to get another car,. if only for the availability of the manual transmission. No AWD though!

[Shuga]

I went from an M5 to an A4 and I never looked back. That should tell you something lol


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[jygesq]

You would be so much more happier, you went to an S4

[jungy4]

I was seriously considering the 335/340 when I was shopping. The main reason that I went with the S4 was because since 2016 was the last year for the 6MT, I felt like time was running out on me.

I also read the new 3 and 4 series is automatic only now.

[j23a45m]

New M2 have a detuned version of the s55 aka tune it up a bit and will murder tuned m4s cause of like 500lbs lighter

The m2 competition does, the others have a N55B30T0
I went crazy whey they did this


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[Dr GP]

N55 can be tuned as well . I understand what you are saying and definitely prefer the engine that are putting in the M2 Comp and M3/M4

[j23a45m]

N55 can be tuned as well . I understand what you are saying and definitely prefer the engine that are putting in the M2 Comp and M3/M4

We all know this.
I’ve had a N55 car before, with jb4 and a backend flash. This was before mhd was available for beta!


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[Midshift]

Thought I may have a bit to add to this thread.

I've previously owned at 2007 E92 and a 2011 E82. The E92 was 6MT N54 with relocated inlets, outlets, and all the other supporting stuff. It felt like every other week something needed to be addressed on the car. Ended up doing replacement CHRAs, clutch, motor mounts, etc. However, the car was a lot of fun on ethanol, and I probably sold it right after I was done chasing down all of the gremlins that come with it. The E82 was DCT N55 and inlet/outlet + supporting mods and ethanol via MHD/JB4 BEF. The N55 was definitely a lot less cranky than the N54. However, the car was totaled after an unfortunate accident.

After deciding that I was REALLY tired of looking at orange interior lighting, I decided to look for a B8 or B8.5 S4. Ended up with a dual pulley (57/179) 60k mile 6MT black/black leather car with most of the bells and whistles (aside from memory seats and keyless entry). The price upfront was a lot more than any BMW product I was considering after the incident, but after owning the car for a couple of months I would say that cost is definitely justified. I do miss my red leather interior in the BMWs (good luck finding a dual pulley magma 6mt...) however I'm beyond thrilled that there is not a single orange light. Lots of good and technical info above in the thread, but as a previous owner of both E92/E82 I would say go for the S4 and you will never look back!

[proxemus]

Thought I may have a bit to add to this thread.

I've previously owned at 2007 E92 and a 2011 E82. The E92 was 6MT N54 with relocated inlets, outlets, and all the other supporting stuff. It felt like every other week something needed to be addressed on the car. Ended up doing replacement CHRAs, clutch, motor mounts, etc. However, the car was a lot of fun on ethanol, and I probably sold it right after I was done chasing down all of the gremlins that come with it. The E82 was DCT N55 and inlet/outlet + supporting mods and ethanol via MHD/JB4 BEF. The N55 was definitely a lot less cranky than the N54. However, the car was totaled after an unfortunate accident.

After deciding that I was REALLY tired of looking at orange interior lighting, I decided to look for a B8 or B8.5 S4. Ended up with a dual pulley (57/179) 60k mile 6MT black/black leather car with most of the bells and whistles (aside from memory seats and keyless entry). The price upfront was a lot more than any BMW product I was considering after the incident, but after owning the car for a couple of months I would say that cost is definitely justified. I do miss my red leather interior in the BMWs (good luck finding a dual pulley magma 6mt...) however I'm beyond thrilled that there is not a single orange light. Lots of good and technical info above in the thread, but as a previous owner of both E92/E82 I would say go for the S4 and you will never look back!

Passanger airbag off. Now ur just gonna stare at it. There's your orange light lol

[Midshift]

Passanger airbag off. Now ur just gonna stare at it. There's your orange light lol

One orange safety light is better than an entire vehicle of orange lighting... haha!

[GLIS4]

I have both, both are amazing cars as you have said, but I think you miss the other in either of them. The audi does everything with ease, especially after dual pulley, but for me it is a double edged blade. Doing 100 in the 335i is still thrilling, but in the audi it feels very sedate, only thrilling when you get into straight-to-jail speeds. The 335i is fun with the huge torque kick, but once you're in the torque it seems to stay the same even as you rev up to redline. In the s4, you're feeling the power build each gear, and they do go by fast. I'm not exactly what you're looking for since I'm not transitioning and have both, but I wouldn't sell either. The audi is my favorite car I've had the privilege to own, so I baby it and only go hard on it when I know it's 110% safe, whereas the 335i is just fun and I care little about the paint or scraping the bumper, meaning I can drive it anywhere and be a little hard on it, the n54 can take a beating aswell. The s4 radiates that unique supercharger whine and has aged, in my opinion, extremely well. The 335i has aged decently, but I don't get many looks in it even though it is very fast (at least 450, never dyno'd) and very loud (downpipes and straight pipe because n54). If I had to dump one it would be the 335i, but both are great cars with potential and fun platforms. The 335i might be lighter on it's feet, but it doesn't jump off the line or have the instant response of the s4. If you just have the s4, I think you'd still be content, it's a beast for anything from long hauls to quick errands. Two very different engines, so it's definitely opinion and not something you can say across the board. Finally, the interior on the audi is amazing. I will never get tired of looking at it. Hope I have contributed something that is useful or hasn't already been said.

[GarbatyA4]

Thank you all for your time and response. I've gotten lucky and tried a Stage 1 B8.5 S4 recently. The torque was lacking a little compared to the N54 boost spike but the top end felt like it pulled harder and harder. The car felt more planted vs the bimmer. The interior seemed nicer. I think with magma interior and carbon fiber inlays, its really a step up inside. I've also managed to help change a thermostat and taking the supercharger removal was easy in comparison to changing turbos on an N54.

I think we are going to ditch the 14' Malibu and my high mileage B8 Q5 and get her a B9 Q5 and B8.5 S4 for myself.

I think a dual pulley S4 would glue me in the seat enough to keep me happy.

[Audibellybutton]

I used to have an e92 it was a great car but you will definitely like the S4 better the e90 whole interior and exterior looks super dated and feels it as well. This is just the sad reality, I could never mess with an e90 after those f30 came out and they’re super cheap now and way more reliable/better looking, just using the f30 as an example but at this point there’s plenty of way better cars to be driving. The n54 was a great engine though

[fastboatster]

I think the comment about S4 being very sedate until you hit very illegal speeds is spot on. You don’t feel the speed in it all, unlike in the e90. So depends on what you want, really-s4 if you want to go fast very easily or e90 if you want to have more thrills and okay with worse reliability. I mean, hands down if you want faster quarter mile times, s4 with dsg is your choice

[ePONYmous]

The N54 is a great platform. Definitely on a VERY short list for moddable euros.
I'm pretty tempted by this: https://www.bmwn54tuners.com/build-5...bmw-135i-335i/

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[fastboatster]

The N54 is a great platform. Definitely on a VERY short list for moddable euros.
I'm pretty tempted by this: https://www.bmwn54tuners.com/build-5...bmw-135i-335i/

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Check out spool street, they have more up to date guides as well as build threads or dct swap guides

[GarbatyA4]

I think the comment about S4 being very sedate until you hit very illegal speeds is spot on. You don’t feel the speed in it all, unlike in the e90. So depends on what you want, really-s4 if you want to go fast very easily or e90 if you want to have more thrills and okay with worse reliability. I mean, hands down if you want faster quarter mile times, s4 with dsg is your choice

We have a drag strip / small circuit 40 minutes away. What do DSG dual pulley cars with heat exchanger normally run on pump gas? high 11's? (800ft above sea level)

[doughboy17]

We have a drag strip / small circuit 40 minutes away. What do DSG dual pulley cars with heat exchanger normally run on pump gas? high 11's? (800ft above sea level)

Check out this sticky.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...your-time-here

[GandalfTheIbis]

We have a drag strip / small circuit 40 minutes away. What do DSG dual pulley cars with heat exchanger normally run on pump gas? high 11's? (800ft above sea level)

Long story short, it depends on how healthy your car is and how hard you're willing to work to understand the car. DP cars on pump gas can run 12.2 @ 114-5 or they can run 11.3 @ 120... these things are all over the place.



Only thing to miss about an e90 is the high power ceiling of a well modded n54. The S4 will cost you more to mod but is a nicer daily driver in all aspects except steering feel