WHY ARE THESE COOKIE CUT TUNES SO DAMN EXPENSIVE APR EPL GIAC IE

[joe916]

coming from a e55 and a sc300 with a full 2jzgte swap with aem infinity these tunes that APR EPL IE GIAC offer for our 3.0t i just do not understand the price they are asking for i got my aem infinity custom tuned from scratch starting idling dyno time and road tuning for under $1500 while all these audi tuners once unlocked can copy each others perimeters and charge over $1200 even as high as $1500 for a tune that performs about the same as all the top tunes mentioned is the unlocking process that complex? i just do not understand the price justification

[SlingshotSQ5]

Is this really a legit question?
Troll post is troll posty......

A- you get what you pay for
B- the R&D required for each ECU across all platforms isn’t just a cookie cutter program, it takes all kinds of time and testing before they release it to the public. Do you work for free?
C- you get what you pay for

[djn876]

This guy should get together with the one who complained the tunes are taking too long.

Seriously though, it's worth what people will pay for it. If you think it's too much, don't buy it, or go with a different platform you can tune for less. This was all easily searchable before buying anything.

I don't know how easy other platforms are to tune, other than the WRX I had which was not bad for the tuners and there was a lot to go off of. These ECUs take a long time to crack and develop tunes for, and the market is smaller, which translates to more cost.

I also seriously doubt they all just copy each other's tunes and rebrand them

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[joe916]

there is not much r&d into these 3.0t tunes lol they have been out for over 7+ years unlocked and the prices haven't changed while you look at other platforms and they keep getting cheaper and the tunes are custom fit every q5-sq5 3.0t with a stage 1 tune run the same numbers there is no dramatic difference in 1/4 times who ever gets colder weather and good track prep get the best time

[Salty Mope]

apr dropped the cost of their stage 1 tune by $300 last December. I believe EPL also dropped the price of theirs in 2018.

any business is going to look at their R&D/cost and then estimate how long it will take to recoup that investment based on the size of the market and the price the market will pay. I'm no tuner so I can only speculate... but I imagine higher cost of cracking the ECU and developing the tune, plus smaller market of people wanting to tune an SUV, equals higher asking price.

[phillyquattro]

coming from a e55 and a sc300 with a full 2jzgte swap with aem infinity these tunes that APR EPL IE GIAC offer for our 3.0t i just do not understand the price they are asking for i got my aem infinity custom tuned from scratch starting idling dyno time and road tuning for under $1500 while all these audi tuners once unlocked can copy each others perimeters and charge over $1200 even as high as $1500 for a tune that performs about the same as all the top tunes mentioned is the unlocking process that complex? i just do not understand the price justification

there is not much r&d into these 3.0t tunes lol they have been out for over 7+ years unlocked and the prices haven't changed while you look at other platforms and they keep getting cheaper and the tunes are custom fit every q5-sq5 3.0t with a stage 1 tune run the same numbers there is no dramatic difference in 1/4 times who ever gets colder weather and good track prep get the best time

[joe916]

you seem more then happy with the price manipulation on these tunes that perfom the same

[joe916]

compare all of the dyno numbers and 1/4mile times tune for tune they are all pretty close to each other with a huge price$ gap

[joe916]

Is this really a legit question?
Troll post is troll posty......

A- you get what you pay for
B- the R&D required for each ECU across all platforms isn’t just a cookie cutter program, it takes all kinds of time and testing before they release it to the public. Do you work for free?
C- you get what you pay for

You really think tuner don't talk to each other to get the most info on cracking these ecu's oh and how about the Chinese cables they try and sell you for $200 eBay price $20

[DiscoDan]

Hey dude if you don't like what the marketplace has to offer then start your own company, offer tunes, and compete with these guys. If you do it right and people want your product you'll make millions

Put up of stfu. Shit costs money, deal with it.

[joe916]

Hey dude if you don't like what the marketplace has to offer then start your own company, offer tunes, and compete with these guys. If you do it right and people want your product you'll make millions

Put up of stfu. Shit costs money, deal with it.

My point is they are all the same tunes only difference is some don't have speed limiter

[DiscoDan]

My point is they are all the same tunes only difference is some don't have speed limiter

So quite your bitching and just buy one, or don't. No one here cares to hear you complaining that you have to spend YOUR money on something YOU WANT or DON"T WANT.

[joe916]

So quite your bitching and just buy one, or don't. No one here cares to hear you complaining that you have to spend YOUR money on something YOU WANT or DON"T WANT.

Out of curiosity do you have a tune?

[elijahallen]

My point is they are all the same tunes only difference is some don't have speed limiter

I agree with you Joe, it is amazing what we are willing to pay these days. I have been building and getting custom tunes for near 20 years now only driving Audi's and never have seen the market for a tune this high. That being said, I have never seen rent, groceries, building materials, etc this high either. Wish I had an answer but I don't, lots of money out there and as long as people pay prices won't go down.

[joe916]

I agree with you Joe, it is amazing what we are willing to pay these days. I have been building and getting custom tunes for near 20 years now only driving Audi's and never have seen the market for a tune this high. That being said, I have never seen rent, groceries, building materials, etc this high either. Wish I had an answer but I don't, lots of money out there and as long as people pay prices won't go down.

But nobody can still explain to me the performance difference between a APR $1200 93oct tune and a giac $1500 93oct tune

[RoofRails]

Have you checked out the price of a AWE exhaust yet.....

Sent from my SM-N960U using Audizine mobile app

[joe916]

GIAC provides the tuning here is there explanation why it cost $1500 for a stage 1

Improved wheel horsepower and torque gains at 105-110 HP & 60-65 Ft. / Lbs. of torque , on 91 octane fuel. Estimated wheel gains as high as 109 horsepower and 93 Ft. / Lbs. of torque in some areas of the power band. Properly recalibrated air/fuel ratios and maximized boost pressures. Improved throttle response for a drive-by-cable system feel. Raised speed limiters

Sent from my SM-N960U using Audizine mobile app[/QUOTE]

[joe916]

[QUOTE=RoofRails;13659907]Have you checked out the price of a AWE exhaust yet.....
The quality is good but it's still not worth the money

[joe916]

Oh the exhaust I mean the quality is good but the price is 😂 same situation with Audi 4.0t downpipes you can get them half the price from Russia with awesome quality

[RoofRails]

[QUOTE=joe916;13659925]

Have you checked out the price of a AWE exhaust yet.....
The quality is good but it's still not worth the money

For me it is worth every penny. Combined with the tune It transformed the driving experience.

As for the tune I have read a ton of posts about Stg 1 tunes . I can't recall anyone ever being unhappy with their tune regardless of the make. Most people can live with the stock exhaust but you should find the best deal you can on a tune and pull the trigger. You won't regret it.

Sent from my SHT-W09 using Audizine mobile app

[joe916]

How much was the exhaust with the tune? If you don't mind me asking

[RoofRails]

How much was the exhaust with the tune? If you don't mind me asking

2100 for exhaust and I think the tune may have been 1100 at the time.

Sent from my SHT-W09 using Audizine mobile app

[joe916]

Sounds like a reasonable price but do you get where I'm coming from $1100 compared to $1500 and it's the same damn tune

[RoofRails]

Sounds like a reasonable price but do you get where I'm coming from $1100 compared to $1500 and it's the same damn tune

I don't know much about Giac because I had my mind made up on APR but it looks like they have a switching function included in that 1500 bundle. The APR is one file.


What's in the Stage 1 File?

Included stock, race and valet modes, in addition to a G.I.A.C. Handheld Program Switcher - all with the Stage 1 file purchase.*

Search Terms: GIAC.Q530T.STAGE1




Sent from my SHT-W09 using Audizine mobile app

[joe916]

[QUOTE=RoofRails;13659967]I don't know much about Giac because I had my mind made up on APR but it looks like they have a switching function included in that 1500 bundle. The APR is one file.


What's in the Stage 1 File?

Included stock, race and valet modes, in addition to a G.I.A.C. Handheld Program Switcher - all with the Stage 1 file purchase.*

Search Terms: GIAC.Q530T.STAGE1




Sent from my SHT-W09 using Audizine mobile app[/QUOTE

That's is a bonus

[mkasperzak]

I understand where your coming from Joe as I had a Stg 3 Subaru WRX Wagon prior to my first audi. You can get a Cobb Accessport for less than 1/2 the cost of a stg 1 tune and it comes with several off the shelf maps, and the ability to add custom maps, and a handheld unit that shows everything a P3 gauge and dragy do and more. That being said Cobb sells one to almost every single WRX/STI/Focus ST owner out there. I probably see 40 every time I drive an hour from Denver to Summit County.

Now if you look at the Cobb pricing for the same Accessport for a GTR or a Porsche Turbo they can get up to $1,600 to $2,200. So there ya have it, not sure if it is the R&D on the trickier ECU or simply supply and demand but the pricier the car, the pricier the tune.

[choppstixxx]

Because Audi-tax, in all honesty when it comes to tunes I rather pay more for something tried and true than get a "cheap" one that may ruin my engine.
Now other hardware mods, I chalk up the prices being so high because there isn't a lot of competition like with a Honda etc. For exhausts you literally have AWE, Magnaflow, or custom.

[SDV325]

While these tunes are quite expensive in comparison to off the shelf type tunes for a Subaru, there is definitely one aspect i feel is much different. Reliability.

Coming from the Subaru scene a few years ago, if you went stage 2 with your WRX/STi the reliability was well, shit. At least it was on the local forums where it seemed every week someone was posting asking for help for various reasons, a lot of them being catastrophic engine failure. I am not sure if things have changed with some of the new designs from Subaru and the associated tuners, but it really turned me off the brand at the time (around 2012 to 2014)

Meanwhile these tunes from APR, GIAC and EPL have an incredibly strong, reliable platform.

[Kai@EliteMS]

You get what you pay for. Can't stress this enough.

[joe916]

I understand where your coming from Joe as I had a Stg 3 Subaru WRX Wagon prior to my first audi. You can get a Cobb Accessport for less than 1/2 the cost of a stg 1 tune and it comes with several off the shelf maps, and the ability to add custom maps, and a handheld unit that shows everything a P3 gauge and dragy do and more. That being said Cobb sells one to almost every single WRX/STI/Focus ST owner out there. I probably see 40 every time I drive an hour from Denver to Summit County.

Now if you look at the Cobb pricing for the same Accessport for a GTR or a Porsche Turbo they can get up to $1,600 to $2,200. So there ya have it, not sure if it is the R&D on the trickier ECU or simply supply and demand but the pricier the car, the pricier the tune.

macan s turbo stage 1 tune cobb access port with drop in air filters for $1500 and i highly doubt our ecu is more sophisticated then a 2018 macan s turbo and the price point of our cars are about the same even cheaper then a new sti so it makes no sense

[joe916]

You get what you pay for. Can't stress this enough.

we get 2 options drive your ass to a apr dealer pay for tune plus installation fees for a basic tune if you want race file drive your ass again to the shop reflash with another fee
second option buy a tune then you have to pay for a Chinese cable that is extra then you have to pay extra for a race file

[joe916]

Because Audi-tax, in all honesty when it comes to tunes I rather pay more for something tried and true than get a "cheap" one that may ruin my engine.
Now other hardware mods, I chalk up the prices being so high because there isn't a lot of competition like with a Honda etc. For exhausts you literally have AWE, Magnaflow, or custom.

i had my aem infinity on my 2jzgte completely tuned from scratch set up+dyno+road tuning all for under $1500 with 3 map files low boost hi boost race fuel while all these tunes are either flashed in under 5min or apr under 40min tuners really do not invest much at all once the file is done maybe a revision after a year or 2

[KillerQuattro]

Keep in mind, volume brings prices down significantly.. You are comparing a luxury brand that has a much smaller enthusiast following to a Subaru or 2JZ following. Obviously the WRX/STI platform is filled with thousands of people that want a tune. Therefore, COBB knows they will sell let's say, 100,000 tunes to that platform for their fixed R&D cost. Where APR, GIAC or EPL is counting on a MUCH smaller group of people who want a tune with this 3.0t engine. Keeping this in mind, everyone still wants reliability and so the R&D cost is split between many less units that eventually would sell.

Cost of the vehicle realistically shouldn't have much to do with the cost of the tune. Volume of tuners on the platform is the only thing that can and will drive the price down. That and an ECU that is as easy to "crack" as the Japanese cars. APR has been attempting to crack the B9 for some time now. Somebody has to pay for all of that time it took.

I seriously doubt all these tuners are just carbon copies of each other. Different tuners play with different parameters, but ultimately you can only get so much power out of the stock pulley. That is another thing... this is not a turbo, so a Stage 1 tune is much more limited to power than a turbo stage 1 tune. It hardware limited on this engine, so it makes perfect sense for all the stage 1 tunes to be very close to each other with power output or 1/4 mile times.

Less demand for a product that requires the same level of R&D as others = higher prices than other platforms.

[2DR Vette]

Joe- I'm curious why you haven't reached out to Cobb to get them to provide a setup for the 3.0T. Perhaps they are just unaware of the opportunity here, but if they can provide all of the things you mention at a price point significantly less than the Audi tuners, I would say they could make a mint.

In the interim, I don't think pointing out how unsatisfactory you find the current state of affairs will change much. The vendor will sell the tunes for what customers are willing to pay. Clearly, given the number of 3.0T tuned cars across the various product lines, folks are willing to pay, and the vendors are happy with the current state of affairs.

Not sure what you are expecting to happen here- there is no magic answer. Not like GIAC or APR is going to come in and post and go "Aww shucks, sorry guys. Busted. We've just been fleecing you for NO reason at all. Hahaha. We're going to go ahead and drop prices now- you got us."

[Esquefive]

Figure out how to tune and sell those tunes dirt cheap. If it's as easy as you say you should make a killing undercutting the competition.

Complaining is easy, your unsubstantiated claims are cheap. Go make some money, sounds like you could use it.





Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

[joe916]

Figure out how to tune and sell those tunes dirt cheap. If it's as easy as you say you should make a killing undercutting the competition.

Complaining is easy, your unsubstantiated claims are cheap. Go make some money, sounds like you could use it.





Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

your one of those who spend $1000 on a air intake lol joking i run aem infinty on my sc300 with a 2jzgte my stand alone ecu is $2000 not counting the set up and tune what i am trying to get my point across is the price gap on tunes for our platform is straight silly for what you get there has to be a better solution i have already contacted cobb and they have something planned for audi platforms in the near future but no guaranty

[joe916]

Joe- I'm curious why you haven't reached out to Cobb to get them to provide a setup for the 3.0T. Perhaps they are just unaware of the opportunity here, but if they can provide all of the things you mention at a price point significantly less than the Audi tuners, I would say they could make a mint.

In the interim, I don't think pointing out how unsatisfactory you find the current state of affairs will change much. The vendor will sell the tunes for what customers are willing to pay. Clearly, given the number of 3.0T tuned cars across the various product lines, folks are willing to pay, and the vendors are happy with the current state of affairs.

Not sure what you are expecting to happen here- there is no magic answer. Not like GIAC or APR is going to come in and post and go "Aww shucks, sorry guys. Busted. We've just been fleecing you for NO reason at all. Hahaha. We're going to go ahead and drop prices now- you got us."

i guess the black friday sales mean nothing then when the same tune that cost $1500 is on sale for almost half the price

[Esquefive]

your one of those who spend $1000 on a air intake lol joking i run aem infinty on my sc300 with a 2jzgte my stand alone ecu is $2000 not counting the set up and tune what i am trying to get my point across is the price gap on tunes for our platform is straight silly for what you get there has to be a better solution i have already contacted cobb and they have something planned for audi platforms in the near future but no guaranty

No, I'm cheap too lmao. I spend $50 on an intake because I l know how to make one. I can tune standalone but an oem ECU is an emissions control unit not an engine control unit and I don't know how to fwi. I'm happy with the results of my epl tune and since I didn't have a better solution I had to caugh up the dough. I'm not mad at them though. Plus they actually have good customer service so at least I felt like they gave a damn about making the sale to me.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

[joe916]

No, I'm cheap too lmao. I spend $50 on an intake because I l know how to make one. I can tune standalone but an oem ECU is an emissions control unit not an engine control unit and I don't know how to fwi. I'm happy with the results of my epl tune and since I didn't have a better solution I had to caugh up the dough. I'm not mad at them though. Plus they actually have good customer service so at least I felt like they gave a damn about making the sale to me.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

i have heard good things about EPL they seem more personal and caring with customer service $50 intake instead of spending $500-700 that does the same thing

[DiscoDan]

Out of curiosity do you have a tune?

There is no tune available for the B9 3.0 turbo engine yet