P0087, P0301, P0300. Misfires and low pressure. Car shakes and runs poorly. Help!

[Bubbalex]

Hi guys, I just landed a new job with a new commute and of-course now I'm having car trouble. I appreciate any help trying to narrow down the problem

2008 Audi B7 2.0T FSI Quattro
Throwing Engine Trouble codes
- P0087 Fuel Rail/System Pressure 002 - Too Low - Intermittent
- P0301 Cylinder 1 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
- P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected


The car turns on fine but will begin to shake. Especially after a few minutes of warming up. If i put it in drive and accelerate its shakes at low revs but eventually I can feel the turbo kicking in. The car still picks up speed but runs poorly. There's definitely a loss of power. Kinda feels like its delayed. Im assuming it is running on 3 cylinders. I drove it to work the other day and the gas mileage is also really bad. The car feels like its stressing itself more than it has to, to pick up speed. The car does not turn off but ive since stopped driving it.

I ran the ross tech VCDS for codes. Ill post a copy paste of them down below.
I checked the fuel lines and none of them look pinched or loose.
I changed all the Coil packs and spark plugs as soon as the problem happened. Also did an oil change and oil filter.
Im planing on removing the HPFP and checking the cam follower and changing the fuel filter.
Any sensors I should be replacing while im in there getting greased up?
I can hear the LPFP working when I turn the key.
I should also note that the HPFP, LPFP, Cam chain tensioner, are all less than 2 years old. I did them sometime 2017+
The only loose hose I found was one that connects to the back-right of the engine and leads to the back of the engine department. To the round thing to the right of the battery. The bracket keeping it tight seems to have snapped. I have no idea what this hose is for but its holding on for now.


Im at a loss at what I should replace first. I only really have a week and then ill have to hand it over to the dealership and their price gauging.

VCDS
Monday,06,May,2019,09:01:33:35445
VCDS Version: Release 18.9.1 (x64) Running on Windows 10 x64
www.Ross-Tech.com

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.clb
Control Module Part Number: 8E1 910 115 G HW: 8E0 907 115 D
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0010
Software Coding: 0104010A190F0120
Work Shop Code: WSC 06325 000 00000

3 Faults Found:

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 001 - - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 276152 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1174 /min
Load: 58.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 17.0°C
Temperature: 17.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.970 V

000769 - Cylinder 1
P0301 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 276152 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1284 /min
Load: 51.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 17.0°C
Temperature: 17.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.970 V

000135 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
P0087 - 002 - Too Low - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 276329 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2909 /min
Load: 71.3 %
Speed: 82.0 km/h
Temperature: 54.0°C
Temperature: 28.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.716 V


Readiness: 0000 0001

[roadbiker_2]

Post a photo of the hose when you get a chance


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

[Bubbalex]

Post a photo of the hose when you get a chance


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

Sure thing. Its the one one at the back of the engine bay. Connects near the HPFP, on the back of the engine. I can technically pull it off but still has some grip. Not completely loose





I should also note that the plastic which runs along the Coil pack connector is beat up and cracked. The cables look fine but let me know if this might be a problem.
https://imgur.com/a/8mvRCUM

[roadbiker_2]

For some reason the photos did not post, can you try again?


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

[roadbiker_2]

Never mind, just came through!


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

[roadbiker_2]

It appears that the line is the one that goes to the vacuum pump. That would cause a vacuum leak and that would cause the car to run very poorly. If it is broken or leaking. Try getting that replaced and see if it improves things. Also, the vacuum pump is notorious for leaking and causing issues. It is at the back of the motor and difficult to replace, but inspect the connection where the line connects to make sure that it is not moving up and down.

How many miles on the car?




2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

[Bubbalex]

It appears that the line is the one that goes to the vacuum pump. That would cause a vacuum leak and that would cause the car to run very poorly. If it is broken or leaking. Try getting that replaced and see if it improves things. Also, the vacuum pump is notorious for leaking and causing issues. It is at the back of the motor and difficult to replace, but inspect the connection where the line connects to make sure that it is not moving up and down.

How many miles on the car?




2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

You might be on to something. The connection where the line connects to the engine does have some play. I can push it up and down. I noticed when i was checking the lines and thats when I saw the hose was loose because of a worn out metal strap tightener thing. Similar to this video I just found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vExqaEZ23PA

[Bubbalex]

Car has 170k Miles

[EvolutionArmory]

The line for the vacuum pump only goes to the brake booster. I don’t believe it will cause a running issue.

[roadbiker_2]

You need a new vacuum pump, that is exactly how my sons sounded. If that hose is moving up and down, and it sounds like it is, it is leaking.

Here are the hoses if you need a good diagram. The assumed you had an automatic. Also, if you are doing the work, you will need a stubby 1/4” drive T20 or T25. I will check to see what I have in my box when I get home

https://audi.7zap.com/en/rdw/audi+a4.../6/611-611075/


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

[Bubbalex]

The line for the vacuum pump only goes to the brake booster. I don’t believe it will cause a running issue.

Im checking to see if this is true. I read somewhere it could cause bad acceleration and bad idle. Not sure if the misfires are from the same problem tho.

[Bubbalex]

You need a new vacuum pump, that is exactly how my sons sounded. If that hose is moving up and down, and it sounds like it is, it is leaking.

Here are the hoses if you need a good diagram. The assumed you had an automatic. Also, if you are doing the work, you will need a stubby 1/4” drive T20 or T25. I will check to see what I have in my box when I get home

https://audi.7zap.com/en/rdw/audi+a4.../6/611-611075/


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

Yea. The connection doesnt look good at all. Do you know if there is anyway to test it? Like i said, there is play at the connection but I had assumed it was normal. I'll try buy the hose strap first to see if anything changes. I dont want to have to change the whole pump if it wont fix an immediate problem. Im not 100% convinced the leak would cause misfires or the "Fuel Rail/System Pressure" fault code

[roadbiker_2]

That is true, but vacuum leaks will cause very rough idle and extremely poor driving. If that plastic piece is moving with the booster hose attached, it is leaking. I have had BMW’s get misfires from vacuum leaks in the past.


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

[roadbiker_2]

When you did the coils did you also inspect the plugs for performance? Were any significantly different than the others?


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

[Bubbalex]

It seems like it will need replacing. If im taking apart the HPFP to change the cam follower, I might as well do the vac pump while im back there. Thanks for the suggestion. Ill have to look at it again in the morning


If anyone has any other suggestion. Sensors, hoses, etc. Let me know!

[Bubbalex]

When you did the coils did you also inspect the plugs for performance? Were any significantly different than the others?


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

I didnt check any plugs when changing the coils. How would I do that? Like i said, Im taking this things apart on my day off. Ill take out the coils If i have too

[EvolutionArmory]

That is true, but vacuum leaks will cause very rough idle and extremely poor driving. If that plastic piece is moving with the booster hose attached, it is leaking. I have had BMW’s get misfires from vacuum leaks in the past.


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

The vacuum pump for the brake booster isn’t hooked up to anything else. All it does is help the brake booster. And when that nipple gets loose, all it really does is make a loud knocking noise because the sealing O ring for it needs to be replaced. If the O ring really lets go, you might have a change in your brake pedal but you won’t have any drivability issues. Especially not a single cylinder misfire. Look at his codes. He has a fuel pressure code and a single cylinder misfire. He needs to do fuel pressure diagnosis (fuel pump, pressure sensor, fuel injector, etc) not focus on the vacuum pump.

[roadbiker_2]

Would the misfire potentially be a potential carbon buildup on the one cylinder as it it as GDI engine?


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

[roadbiker_2]

Also, thanks for the clarification on the vacuum pump. I don’t have the car here as it is off at college at the moment.


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

[EvolutionArmory]

Would the misfire potentially be a potential carbon buildup on the one cylinder as it it as GDI engine?


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

Sure could.

[EvolutionArmory]

Here’s how I diagnose single cylinder misfires. Swap the coil that’s misfiring with the one next to it. If the misfire follows the coil, replace it. If it stays, swap plugs. If the misfire moves, replace your plugs. If it stays, make sure the coil harness for that cylinder is getting power. If it is, move on to a compression test. If it’s not, look at the harness wires and fix any broken wires.

Do a compression test next. If cylinder 1 is about even with the rest, do a leak down test. If compression is significantly lower, you got a piston or valve problem. If the leak down test results are bad, maybe you have carbon build up or a valve problem.

If leak down is good, you most likely have a bad injector.

Spark, compression and fuel. You don’t have one of those 3 things on cylinder 1. And notice how no parts were recommended being replaced without actually testing that it was needed first. 😀

Replacing all your coils and plugs for a single cylinder misfire is a good way to spend 150 bucks and maybe not fix your problem.

[roadbiker_2]

Excellent advice!


2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T

[EvolutionArmory]

And there is also the P0087 code. That’s a potential shit load of diagnosis. You gotta start by seeing what low pressure duty cycle is at idle. Should be 55% or lower to be considered healthy. The closer to 50% the better.

[Bubbalex]

Here’s how I diagnose single cylinder misfires. Swap the coil that’s misfiring with the one next to it. If the misfire follows the coil, replace it. If it stays, swap plugs. If the misfire moves, replace your plugs. If it stays, make sure the coil harness for that cylinder is getting power. If it is, move on to a compression test. If it’s not, look at the harness wires and fix any broken wires.

Do a compression test next. If cylinder 1 is about even with the rest, do a leak down test. If compression is significantly lower, you got a piston or valve problem. If the leak down test results are bad, maybe you have carbon build up or a valve problem.

If leak down is good, you most likely have a bad injector.

Spark, compression and fuel. You don’t have one of those 3 things on cylinder 1. And notice how no parts were recommended being replaced without actually testing that it was needed first. 😀

Replacing all your coils and plugs for a single cylinder misfire is a good way to spend 150 bucks and maybe not fix your problem.

Thats some great advice! Thank you. Ill do exactly this tomorrow.

- - - Updated - - -

And there is also the P0087 code. That’s a potential shit load of diagnosis. You gotta start by seeing what low pressure duty cycle is at idle. Should be 55% or lower to be considered healthy. The closer to 50% the better.

How exactly would I check the low pressure duty cycle? vcds code?

[Bubbalex]

I should also note that the car has 170k miles and never had a carbon clean-up.

[Cyrik]

I should also note that the car has 170k miles and never had a carbon clean-up.

Carbon could absolutely cause a misfire.

On another note... I know this is a stretch and I could be TOTALLY OFF on this one entirely, and I'm not trying to freak you out either but with 170k do you have any history on the turbo being replaced?

A while back I had a random misfire in cyl 2, turns out my turbo seals went and caused all sorts of weird codes, including the misfire and a fuel problem. Swapping plugs didn't do much cause all my spark plugs were fouled with oil from the turbo dumping so much oil into the intercooler pipes and into the engine. The car felt sluggish, even without it misfiring.

[Bubbalex]

Carbon could absolutely cause a misfire.

On another note... I know this is a stretch and I could be TOTALLY OFF on this one entirely, and I'm not trying to freak you out either but with 170k do you have any history on the turbo being replaced?

A while back I had a random misfire in cyl 2, turns out my turbo seals went and caused all sorts of weird codes, including the misfire and a fuel problem. Swapping plugs didn't do much cause all my spark plugs were fouled with oil from the turbo dumping so much oil into the intercooler pipes and into the engine. The car felt sluggish, even without it misfiring.

I've never had trouble with the turbo so I've never had an excuse to mess with it. Now that you mention it...the spark plugs might have had some sign of oil when we pulled them. I think im going to follow EvolutionArmory steps first and try to eliminate some smaller things. Hopefully its not the turbo but ill keep an eye out on the plugs for oil damage.

[Cyrik]

I've never had trouble with the turbo so I've never had an excuse to mess with it. Now that you mention it...the spark plugs might have had some sign of oil when we pulled them. I think im going to follow EvolutionArmory steps first and try to eliminate some smaller things. Hopefully its not the turbo but ill keep an eye out on the plugs for oil damage.

Good idea, he's been very helpful with me personally in the past 😁 (shout out to EA), just wanted to share some of my knowledge. Definitely start with swapping plugs/compression test/leak down. These Audi's can suck when it comes to diagnostics and what's really the problem, thinking outside the box never hurts.

[EvolutionArmory]

Thats some great advice! Thank you. Ill do exactly this tomorrow.

- - - Updated - - -



How exactly would I check the low pressure duty cycle? vcds code?

Check measured value block 106. At warmed up idle. Value number 2 in 106 should be around 50-55%. If it’s much higher you could need a new fuel filter, a new fuel pump or both. Don’t look at the value right when you start the car. It will be high. Look at it when the car is at temp and the car has been at idle for a few minutes.

There are quite a few reasons why you could be throwing that P0087 code but you should always start by looking at the fuel pump duty cycle. If the low pump doesn’t work right, the rest of the fuel system can’t work right.

And any of my diagnosis tips are just that. Tips on things to look at before buying parts. The more you know the better equipped you are to make a better informed decision and it is possible that due to age you could be looking at multiple issues with multiple systems. Having high duty cycle let’s you know the pump is working harder than it should. Then you have to figure out if it’s sensors being wrong or if the pump is actually failing.

Fuel pressure codes suck even more to figure out 😀

[Bubbalex]

Update. I took the car out of a quick spin so It could throw some fault codes and this time is wasnt picking up speed at all. NEW FAULT code P1093 Bank 1; Fuel Measuring System 2. Ill be testing for misfires soon. In the meantime if anyone has any idea what this new fault code points at, let me know.

[EvolutionArmory]

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...1/P1093/004243

[Bubbalex]

Update:

Ok guys I did a few things and narrowed it down some more.

FIRST
-I tested the coils and sparks plugs by swapping them around but the misfire stayed on Cylinder one. Note: The spark plugs were kinda dark even tho they are pretty new.
-Threw Codes
- Cylinder 1 P0301 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
- Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected P0300

SECOND
-Then I checked the coil pack connectors and the misfire moved with the connector of cylinder one.
Note: The one other connectors wouldnt reach so I had to run the car without coil pack 1 connected to test this. I first tried it by moving connector 1 to coil pack 2 and leaving slot 1 empty. Car ran really bad but long enough to throw fault codes.
-Threw codes
- Cylinder 2 Ignition Circuit P1358 Open Circuit
- Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected P0300
- Cylinder 1 P0301 - 001 - Misfire Detected
- Cylinder 2 P0302 - 001 - Misfire Detected

I then put connector one on slot 3 and left slot 1 empty. Again, car ran really bad but long enough to throw codes
-Threw codes:
- Cylinder 3 Ignition Circuit P1361 - 004 - Open Circuit
- Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected P0300 - 001
- Cylinder 1 P0301 - 001 - Misfire Detected
- Cylinder 3 P0303 - 001 - Misfire Detected


SO, it seems like the misfire follows connector #1. Ill drop by the dealership and buy a replacement tomorrow.

THIRD.
I ran a few tests of VCDS. Im not exactly sure what the proper reading should be here. Can anyone chime in and see if any of them look off? I let the car run for a few minutes before taking the screenshots. See pics
103
106
140
230




FOURTH
I wasn't sure if misfires could cause the P0087 from before so I took apart the HPFP to test the cam follower. Although it looked worn out, it wasnt that bad. Ill be buying a new cam follower tomorrow as well. See pictures. Anything else I should look at while the pump is out? One of the connectors looked old and oily. Worth replacing?

SEE PICS HERE
https://imgur.com/a/PbfKtiU

[Cyrik]

takes to dealership to get ripped off. also that is one looking clean HPFP. you clean that engine well too bad it runs like sh1t

Nice to see you again ahotboy15, now kindly fuck off 😂

When you're in a pinch the dealership isn't a terrible option. Fuel pump load looks good, not sure about other readings though. Let us know results with the new parts tomorrow :)

[Theiceman]

yeah they basically pulled the oil pan to sell me i needed a new engine. grand toal $800.. and a quote for the OFH, $1,300. anyone who goes there for non-warrenty work must be out of their mind.

Well you were there so .........

Sent from my SM-G973W using Audizine mobile app

[PullItCross]

Update:



SO, it seems like the misfire follows connector #1. Ill drop by the dealership and buy a replacement tomorrow.

I am having a similar issue now: code: P0302. Cylinder #2 misfire and P0299.
I think P0299 is a result of P0302, so I am focused on P0302 Now.
1. Replaced all coils and plugs,
2. replaced #2 cylinder fuel injector,
3. did the carbon cleaning. I did not take time to clean the carbon buildup, so there are some buildups left. I was eager to see if the fuel injector fixes the issue. But problem remains.
4. I also changed the valve gasket because I saw some oil in the cylinder #2 coil. I pulled the plug in Cylinder #2, it was wet covered with oil. I suspected the oil is from the valve gasket leak, but am not sure. Perhaps the oil is from turbo seal that might be broken based the discussion above? I replaced turbo 2 years ago...now I am getting the P0299, but it could be because of P0302.

any suggestions? my car 2006 A4 2.0T, 211K. This happened all of the sudden while driving on a highway.

thanks,

[EvolutionArmory]

P0302 is a cylinder 2 misfire and P0299 is underboost. I doubt the 2 are related.

Like I said in this post already, fuel air and spark. One of the cylinders isn’t getting one of the 3.

Swap coils and plugs around, check coil pack wiring, do a compression test, do a leak down test, look at injectors. I’ll add that you should also check injector wiring too. That’s how you figure this out, just like the last guy should have done. Single cylinder misfires are super easy to figure out because it can only be a few things. Fuel, air or spark.

Your underboost condition can only be a few things too. Boost leak, bad N75, bad DV, bad boost pressure sensor, bad wastegate, misadjusted wastegate, failed turbo. It’s pretty easy to diagnose this between a boost leak test, VCDS logs and a visual inspection of the turbocharger.

[PullItCross]

P0302 is a cylinder 2 misfire and P0299 is underboost. I doubt the 2 are related.

Like I said in this post already, fuel air and spark. One of the cylinders isn’t getting one of the 3.

Swap coils and plugs around, check coil pack wiring, do a compression test, do a leak down test, look at injectors. I’ll add that you should also check injector wiring too. That’s how you figure this out, just like the last guy should have done. Single cylinder misfires are super easy to figure out because it can only be a few things. Fuel, air or spark.

Your underboost condition can only be a few things too. Boost leak, bad N75, bad DV, bad boost pressure sensor, bad wastegate, misadjusted wastegate, failed turbo. It’s pretty easy to diagnose this between a boost leak test, VCDS logs and a visual inspection of the turbocharger.

thank you for the reply. some update: I pulled all other three plugs out, they were coated with white stuff. I think the anti-seize was put on too much. I changed all the plugs again and I thought I found the issue, but not so easy...OK it looks like I have a bigger issue in hand. I got the P0299 last time, it was a bad turbo. I might have to change it again. it was changed less than 2 years ago. I got a cheap Turbo in ebay. 349 a piece. might have to do that again. time to get a VCDS.

About the wire, when i replaced the fuel injector, the wire connected to the #2 was crushed by the manifold cover, the other guy who put it back did not check the wires apparently.. I suspect it might be the problem. but then when I checked the wire with the voltmeter, no short, and connectivity seems to be fine with the main pin connectors. If this is the wire issue, then I will have to take manifold off again. replace the entire wire set...

also I see the smoke (from burning oil) coming up from where the exhaust pipe connected to the engine. I will check there as well, perhaps the bolts are loose, cause the boost leakage...

the connector to the coil should not be the issue. When I remove the coil, I checked the pin voltage, 13.6 volt when car is turned on. I pretty sure the wire is the bad guy. Get a new set of wire, take it apart again...all the fun stuff.

[PullItCross]

thank you for the reply. some update: I pulled all other three plugs out, they were coated with white stuff. I think the anti-seize was put on too much. I changed all the plugs again and I thought I found the issue, but not so easy...OK it looks like I have a bigger issue in hand. I got the P0299 last time, it was a bad turbo. I might have to change it again. it was changed less than 2 years ago. I got a cheap Turbo in ebay. 349 a piece. might have to do that again. time to get a VCDS.

About the wire, when i replaced the fuel injector, the wire connected to the #2 was crushed by the manifold cover, the other guy who put it back did not check the wires apparently.. I suspect it might be the problem. but then when I checked the wire with the voltmeter, no short, and connectivity seems to be fine with the main pin connectors. If this is the wire issue, then I will have to take manifold off again. replace the entire wire set...

also I see the smoke (from burning oil) coming up from where the exhaust pipe connected to the engine. I will check there as well, perhaps the bolts are loose, cause the boost leakage...

the connector to the coil should not be the issue. When I remove the coil, I checked the pin voltage, 13.6 volt when car is turned on. I pretty sure the wire is the bad guy. Get a new set of wire, take it apart again...all the fun stuff.

Finally I did the compression test, after changed oil, carbon cleaning, and checked the injector wiring. I should have done that long ago. Live and learn.
Cylinder #2 has no compression, the other 3 all have 180 psi and holding.
I then put a metal stick through the spark holes to measure and mark the depth of each cylinder, after I cranked the engine. I found the piston in cylinder #2 seems to be not moving at all. I put everything together and drove a while, then removed the spark plug to measured the depth again in cylinder 2, the same. It looks like the rod connected to piston in cylinder #2 is broken? Is this something common to Audi A4?
The car is 212K, 2006. Time to say goodbye? not sure if it worth a major fix at this point.

[PullItCross]

Is it possible for one piston not moving, but other three are working fine and I can still drive the car, rough of course, without breaking the timing belt? can someone think of any other causes? I am sure that the #2 cylinder piston is not moving, I cranked a few times, all other three pistons moved, but #2. I drove a bit and checked, the #2 piston position was not changed when I checked it through the spark plug hole.

[EvolutionArmory]

Turn the crank by hand with that metal rod in the spark plug hole. You’ll see it rise and fall. I highly doubt your piston isn’t moving if you can still drive the car.