2016 S6 4.0T Turbo Failure...

[Clipse3GT]

Looks like I am a victim of Audi's piss poor German engineering. 48k miles 0w-40 M1 oil only used every 7500 miles. APR Stage 2, SRM intakes, APR downpipes catted. No one is safe from these turbo failures. Honestly this has to become a recall on a global level. Of course Audi would prefer that would not occur.

Ordered a new set of RS7 turbos and TSB from SRM. However, it looks like my hotside / exhaust manifolds got pretty mangled. Do people reuse them in this condition or run a bore hone through them to smooth them out. It looks like the drive side one is far worse than the passenger side. What are my options to replace them or repair them?

I am wondering what people are doing in this situation. What are the options. Beside going to the dealer to take a broom stick up the .....

The screen is completely clogged. No barely any light even passes thru it. Its packed with a bunch of fine particles or fibers.

Here is pictures of the carnage...




















Here is a similar issue that was known since 2009 in the DSM crowd. Running a too fine of a pre filter to a journal bearing turbo will kill them eventually due to oil starvation.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/re....329039/page-1


Update:

Here is a picture of the turbocharger failure on journal bearing shaft. I took the turbos apart. Also note the gold/copper dust on the end of the threaded shaft as well as the thrust plate. The screen slowly degrades oil flow. Once its starts to go the filter screen gets completely occluded which ends in failure.

[zabds319]

Looks like I am a victim of Audi's piss poor German engineering. 48k miles 0w-40 M1 oil only used every 7500 miles. APR Stage 2, SRM intakes, APR downpipes catted. No one is safe from these turbo failures. Honestly this has to become a recall on a global level. Of course Audi would prefer that would not occur.

Any symptoms/warning signs before this happened?

Will a new screen and/or valve at certain intervals prevent this? My 2016 is only at 20k.

[Clipse3GT]

No signs of failure. Crusing down highway in morning traffic. Added a touch of gas moving over to exit lanes sudden loss of power on light acceleration and idle.

New screen and oil seperator should help if the turbo bearings are not damaged. However, too hard to tell with removing and inspecting.

[gta7]

Really does need to be a recall. Kills resale of these cars too.

[mintytoo]

Please also file a complaint to nhtsa, https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

It's definitely dangerous to suddenly lose power on the freeway.

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[hecarethwosu]

Turbos have been that thing that tends to plague Audi since forever. I remember my 99 Audi A4 1.8T, which was just a mess.

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[vrod]

Sucks that your turbo’s are gone, since it’s a 2016, that means facelift? Afaik the turbo issues occur for the pre-facelift cars far the most times.. nevertheless, ruining your engine is a risk when you tune it. There’s a reason why they have bigger Turbo’s in the RS6/7.

[low-profile]

Sorry to hear that happened to you. The hot side is done imo, only worth saving if you wanted to use them with the Garrett turbo upgrade. I would suggest going with a fresh set of OEM RS7/S8 turbos.



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[Phantom75]

I mean you are stage 2....but yes I've seen a lot of threads about this lately on the earlier models. Still sucks though not matter the what, why and when.

Strainer recalls, maybe they need some turbo recalls like you're saying, but I guarantee Audi will be checking for a tune on all powertrain recalls they ever have.

[Clipse3GT]

I plan to file as well. It's honestly a engineering issue.

Please also file a complaint to nhtsa, https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

It's definitely dangerous to suddenly lose power on the freeway.

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[widebodyfx]

That sucks! The facelift cars being late 2015+ just means that there is less miles and power cycles on them, the G revision strainer came out in later 2017 I think so most all builds until the very latest are susceptible to this failure.

[mintytoo]

I plan to file as well. It's honestly a engineering issue.

Definitely, especially when there are stock cars having blown turbos too, at least 7 that I counted in that turbo thread, including rs7 and s8 models

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[gk1]

I'm not arguing oiling issues, but I am genuinely curious now how much the k&n filter might affect at least this particular issue. k&n is known to let more dirt through. I'm not saying foreign object damage, but more that dirt into the air gets into the oil. Ask anyone who has had a UOA with high silicon. And if the system is already fragile the extra oil degradation tips the balance. Again, not trying to be argumentative, as has been stated, stock air filter stock turbos fail also but so far typically on dealer or unknown OCI's.

[Indepth]

I plan to file as well. It's honestly a engineering issue.

I'm a local near you in the CLE area - what dealer did you get your vehicle from?

Judging buy your pictures you're not letting the dealer do the work regardless but I was just curious.

If you need a hand wrenching I'd be happy to help.

[vrod]

Where could one check the revision of the strainer? Bought a 2015 (europe, facelift) model that will arrive later this month.

[wwhan]

Sucks that your turbo’s are gone, since it’s a 2016, that means facelift? Afaik the turbo issues occur for the pre-facelift cars far the most times.. nevertheless, ruining your engine is a risk when you tune it. There’s a reason why they have bigger Turbo’s in the RS6/7.

There was one 2016 RS7 that had the turbos fail at around 18k miles on stock tune.

"18,XXX miles, 100% stock, never tracked/abused, 2016 RS7 Performance": https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post13139207

The oil strainer getting clogged is the issue. Maybe most of the 2018 models might have the new screen.

The Revision 3 TSB (05/14/2018) is the first time it mentions a Production Solution (check valve and screen).

Revision 2 TSB (11/21/2017) adds the the new 079115175G Oil strainer.

Revision 1 TSB (2/2/2017) has the older 079115175F Oil strainer.

=====
================ Revision 4 ==================
21 Engine difficult to start, turbocharger damaged, V8 4.0TFSI
21 18 29 2044640/4 May 22, 2018. Supersedes Technical Service Bulletin Group 21 number 18-28 dated May 14, 2018 for reasons listed below.

Production Solution
Optimized oil strainer 079115175G for oil supply lines to turbochargers in the cover in the inner valley of engine. The oil strainer and check valve 079103175C must always be replaced to ensure proper oil flow to the turbochargers.

4 - Revised header data (Added model years)

3 - 05/14/2018 Revised header data (Added VIN breaks for 2017 models)
Revised Production Solution (Added information)
Revised Service (Added Note and updated Step 7)
Revised Required Parts and Tools (Added part numbers)

===================== Revision 2 ====================
21 Engine difficult to start, turbocharger damaged, V8 4.0TFSI
21 17 27 2044640/2 November 21, 2017. Supersedes Technical Service Bulletin Group 21 number 17-24 dated February 2, 2017 for reasons listed below.

2 - Revised Required Parts and Tools (Updated quantity and part numbers)

Production Solution
Not applicable.

Also mentions: 079115175G Oil strainer

===================== Revision 1 ====================
21 Engine difficult to start, turbocharger damaged, V8 4.0TFSI
21 17 24 2044640/1 February 2, 2017.

Production Solution
Not applicable.

079103175C Check valve

079115175F Oil strainer

=======

[mintytoo]

I'm not arguing oiling issues, but I am genuinely curious now how much the k&n filter might affect at least this particular issue. k&n is known to let more dirt through. I'm not saying foreign object damage, but more that dirt into the air gets into the oil. Ask anyone who has had a UOA with high silicon. And if the system is already fragile the extra oil degradation tips the balance. Again, not trying to be argumentative, as has been stated, stock air filter stock turbos fail also but so far typically on dealer or unknown OCI's.

I'm curious about your questioning. how would dirty air in an intake contaminate the oil inside the system?

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[daytona rs7]

Where could one check the revision of the strainer? Bought a 2015 (europe, facelift) model that will arrive later this month.

only way to check is dis-assemble.

[gk1]

I'm curious about your questioning. how would dirty air in an intake contaminate the oil inside the system?

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Just looking at UOA's from like Blackstone. Whenever silicon in the oil is abnormally high they point you to check your air filter or for any intake leaks.

[Valpo A7]

Is there anyway to hook up an oil pressure gauge to see the oil pressure past the strainer? My thinking is that the loss in pressure after the strainer compared to before the strainer could give an indication to how clogged the strainer is.

[Kodachrome]

Jeez-Louise this is getting to be an eye opening problem. I'm definitely doing oil at 3-5K, BGR sludge cleaner and eventually have the screen swapped within a year.

But man-o-man those turbos got hot, look at that metal fatigue on the inlet!!

Here is pictures of the carnage...



]

[kaploww]

Sorry man.

If you end up going with new exhaust manifolds, I wouldn’t mind picking up your old ones.

I need some junk manifolds for jigging purposes.

[Clipse3GT]

I'm not arguing oiling issues, but I am genuinely curious now how much the k&n filter might affect at least this particular issue. k&n is known to let more dirt through. I'm not saying foreign object damage, but more that dirt into the air gets into the oil. Ask anyone who has had a UOA with high silicon. And if the system is already fragile the extra oil degradation tips the balance. Again, not trying to be argumentative, as has been stated, stock air filter stock turbos fail also but so far typically on dealer or unknown OCI's.

Maybe but its damage to both sides. Its more than likely to be a lubrication issue cause by a restriction at the strainer.

[Clipse3GT]

I'm curious about your questioning. how would dirty air in an intake contaminate the oil inside the system?

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I switched from roc euro to srm about q month ago. Filters cleaned at least every other oil change or 15k miles.

[Clipse3GT]

Jeez-Louise this is getting to be an eye opening problem. I'm definitely doing oil at 3-5K, BGR sludge cleaner and eventually have the screen swapped within a year.

But man-o-man those turbos got hot, look at that metal fatigue on the inlet!!

I think all in all its the screen. Its carbon build up or possible oil filter media fibers inbedded into ultra fine mesh filter. Only fix is to remove or up grade filter. In my race evo in run a external filter so it's easily cleaned every few thousand miles. I still see if I can modify the hard lines differently to be able to run thru a external filter. I dont know what guarantee the new Rev G screen offers.

[Clipse3GT]

Sorry man.

If you end up going with new exhaust manifolds, I wouldn’t mind picking up your old ones.

I need some junk manifolds for jigging purposes.

As of now. I am planning to tig up the exhaust manifolds with a new layer of filler either 312 or 309H then have them CNCed to OEM spec. Same repair as you do for forging dies. You build up a new layer then machine it off until spec. Yes it takes time to do it. But way cheaper than 3k a new turbo a side.

[Clipse3GT]

Is there anyway to hook up an oil pressure gauge to see the oil pressure past the strainer? My thinking is that the loss in pressure after the strainer compared to before the strainer could give an indication to how clogged the strainer is.

No easy way to do it. Its tight space in a hot V. Only way to check is in the oil pan pressure. Then some how after the oil screen. Have two gauges to compare.

[Clipse3GT]

I'm a local near you in the CLE area - what dealer did you get your vehicle from?

Judging buy your pictures you're not letting the dealer do the work regardless but I was just curious.

If you need a hand wrenching I'd be happy to help.

If you want check it our yourself let me know via PM. We can meet for you to see it yourself.

[Clipse3GT]

I think at this point I might be stuck with repairing these manifolds and then CNC them to spec.

I am thinking of removing the filter completely. Then cut my hard line for oil feeds. Weld on a AN 3 or 4 make bung at two points in the hardline. Then add some flex oil feed line with remote in line filters. Then I clean easily clean them and inspect every 5k miles.

[gk1]

There was one 2016 RS7 that had the turbos fail at around 18k miles on stock tune.

"18,XXX miles, 100% stock, never tracked/abused, 2016 RS7 Performance": https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post13139207

That one seems like an outlier. That user has only 2 posts and never returned. At 18k miles they have had maybe 2 oil changes even on the old screen one has to concede that it too fast for it to clog. If anything that failure can likely be chalked up to simply a failed turbo or manufacturer's defect. Even the pictures don't look typical of what we have seen as failures. More like FOD on the blades.

[DoItAllGarage]

I am thinking of removing the filter completely. Then cut my hard line for oil feeds. Weld on a AN 3 or 4 make bung at two points in the hardline. Then add some flex oil feed line with remote in line filters. Then I clean easily clean them and inspect every 5k miles.

I've been thinking about something like this myself, would love to see what you come up with!

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[Kodachrome]

That one seems like an outlier. That user has only 2 posts and never returned. At 18k miles they have had maybe 2 oil changes even on the old screen one has to concede that it too fast for it to clog. If anything that failure can likely be chalked up to simply a failed turbo or manufacturer's defect. Even the pictures don't look typical of what we have seen as failures. More like FOD on the blades.

Agreed on outlier, there was not even a hint of scoring on either turbo and the poster did not seem 100% certain of anything really. I can only hope this new "Ruffle's Potato Chip" style strainer greatly improves on the old one in order to help avoid these blown turbos, they seem to drop weekly around here.

[cW6mT mKviGLi]

I was initially in the market for a 4.0t car and ended up in a 3.0t A6 instead due fear of me having to experience this.

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[daytona rs7]

I think at this point I might be stuck with repairing these manifolds and then CNC them to spec.

I am thinking of removing the filter completely. Then cut my hard line for oil feeds. Weld on a AN 3 or 4 make bung at two points in the hardline. Then add some flex oil feed line with remote in line filters. Then I clean easily clean them and inspect every 5k miles.

i have decided that if/when the time comes that i have to replace my turbos...i will remove the screen and switch to 4 or 5k oil change intervals. turbos have survived for a long time without a secondary screen/filter. in my opinion, that little amount of dirt the screen catches won't damage the turbo bearings any more than oil starvation would. not to mention, shorter OCI will decrease amount of dirt in the oil anyway.

[Frenetic]

Has anyone formally written or spoken to Audi of America to complain about the design and SPECIFICALLY ask them to issue a recall? I know it sounds like an obvious way to voice our displeasure, but most people wont do this. The more they hear, the more they may listen.

The weight of the complaint goes up if you can talk to someone with greater authority.

Point being: don’t expect other people to complain for you. Call them, write them, Twitter them, Instagram them, Facebook them and let them hear it. Public complaints work well too.

[gk1]

I was initially in the market for a 4.0t car and ended up in a 3.0t A6 instead due fear of me having to experience this.

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"Where fear is, happiness is not."
"You are not living your dreams because you are living your fears."
"I would rather have had an S6 and lost it than to have never had it all."

[REAPERS6]

This has enough failures to start a class action , just saying


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[Clipse3GT]

It does. Wait until more MY14,15,16 start failing. Its gonna be a much bigger out cry. I'm sure plenty of lawyers drive s8, a8, etc... it will happen.

[gk1]

Has anyone formally written or spoken to Audi of America to complain about the design and SPECIFICALLY ask them to issue a recall? I know it sounds like an obvious way to voice our displeasure, but most people wont do this. The more they hear, the more they may listen.

The weight of the complaint goes up if you can talk to someone with greater authority.

Point being: don’t expect other people to complain for you. Call them, write them, Twitter them, Instagram them, Facebook them and let them hear it. Public complaints work well too.

You can try but sadly it will fall on deaf ears. It's been tried before in prior models and issues. Even if we assume the blown turbo poll is accurate, and removed tuned cars or modified cars, cause you know Audi doesn't like that, it only leaves a true handful out of the tens of thousands they have made...
Maybe if they had even hundreds being towed into dealerships daily bone stock with failed turbos they might sit up and take notice but as others point out they have already issued a revision for anyone still under warranty, and for anyone living in a California emissions state (Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington. Colorado starts in 2022 ) those should be covered under the 7yr 70k mile emissions warranty which would include even lower mileage 2013's. Other than to retain customer satisfaction and alleviate any worries current owners may have about future failures there is no incentive for them to issue a recall...they have not done it in the past so why start now. Especially with diesel-gate so fresh in their minds and their bottom line.

[REAPERS6]

I know the way it works is if you can prove failure in one model like s6 and 8 series but show no failure in rs7 which is clearly the case with right lawyer and petition you can make a formal case.


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