Hartmann vs HRE, Vossen, Vorstiener

[JJI]

I always and possibly wrongly so think of Hartmann as a good low cost replica wheel or alternative to costly wheels.

I was doing some pricing as I like the Hartmann FF-003 but when compared to pricing on Vorstiener VFF-103 there was only 300 dif and when the HRE ff01 are 30% off only 200 diff with those.

So yes they are alot less then those brands MSRP but no one pays that if you contact vendors. And not much diff if you do

So my question is have I been viewing hartmann wrong and not giving them fair shake and i should be considering them as equals to these other brands or for the extra few hundred am i crazy not to go with one of the other mentioned brands

Thanks for help on this

[Hey_T_S5]

While not all wheel manufacturers are the same, the brands you are looking at are all really good with HRE and Vorstiener at the top of the list. If piece difference is only a few hundred dollars go with the wheel that you like best regardless of the manufacturer. If your looking for weight savings look for Forged wheels rather than Flow Formed.


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[Neil F]

Also to be considered, I see you in the NE. If you are using these in winter with pot holes, I would really consider forged. FF is stronger than cast but I have bent up FF. Forged is even stronger. (I would also shop the classified and wheel sections if you are not. There are always people selling at bargain prices)

[JJI]

Also to be considered, I see you in the NE. If you are using these in winter with pot holes, I would really consider forged. FF is stronger than cast but I have bent up FF. Forged is even stronger. (I would also shop the classified and wheel sections if you are not. There are always people selling at bargain prices)

While not all wheel manufacturers are the same, the brands you are looking at are all really good with HRE and Vorstiener at the top of the list. If piece difference is only a few hundred dollars go with the wheel that you like best regardless of the manufacturer. If your looking for weight savings look for Forged wheels rather than Flow Formed.


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Thanks for replies

What forged wheels have this design ? All the ones I’ve chosen are similar.

I store it in the winter so not as much as a concern but seems like my hometown has designed the streets with pot holes in some areas lol

I have checked classifieds currently away on trip for work this week but may check out a local set when i get back

Thanks again

[NPuter]

Hartmann is no joke. Quality matches (or exceeds) OEM from my experience. Just because they make "replica" wheels doesn't mean they're producing a second-tier product.

I had my Hartmann Ti/rotor reps next to the OEM equivalent many times and preferred them to OEM in every way. I liked the finish on the harmanns much better, and I can personally attest to their strength. They also generally offer a more aggressive/better looking/fitting wheel than the very conservative OEM equivalents.

[kjeeper10]

I went with Signature Forged, light weight, reasonable priced, BEAUTIFUL.

[AsherAudi]

I've been 110% happy with my BC Forged as they seem like 95% of the quality of HRE at 50% of the price. Still not cheap but great quality/price combo - worth looking into.

[JJI]

Thanks for all the feedback much appreciated


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[RVJ]

I had a set of Hartmann replica 5 arm rotors for my winter setup for 2 seasons and was pleased with them. Not as concave as OEM but well made. Have V-FF 103 Vorstieners for summer and the quality is great.

If you’re debating and looking at pricing I’d hit up mops@nemesis here. Good pricing and he has the occasional fantastic deal.


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[adkmooserider]

I use Hartmann rs6 reps in the winter and they are nice and affordable to beat on. HRE shines in the customization dept. You're not going to get the finishes and colors you get WITH HRE on the replicas, but that's where the cost starts to rise.

[varanone]

Also to be considered, I see you in the NE. If you are using these in winter with pot holes, I would really consider forged. FF is stronger than cast but I have bent up FF. Forged is even stronger. (I would also shop the classified and wheel sections if you are not. There are always people selling at bargain prices)

Best advice. Thanks.

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[RockJGC]

Hartmann is no joke. Quality matches (or exceeds) OEM from my experience. Just because they make "replica" wheels doesn't mean they're producing a second-tier product.

I had my Hartmann Ti/rotor reps next to the OEM equivalent many times and preferred them to OEM in every way. I liked the finish on the harmanns much better, and I can personally attest to their strength. They also generally offer a more aggressive/better looking/fitting wheel than the very conservative OEM equivalents.

I considered getting Hartmann Rotor Arm reps, but what kept me away is that they didn't seem as concave as OEM and that was a major consideration for me. I love the concave look. If I remember correctly, the offset was a bit weaker than OEM as well.

Are the OEM Rotor Arm wheels forged? Are the Hartmann reps forged?

[Neil F]

Are the OEM Rotor Arm wheels forged? Are the Hartmann reps forged?

From the web research I did, OEM wheels are the equivalent of flow form process (high pressure cast).

I just put another bend in one of my Avant Guard FF wheels!!!!!!

[NPuter]

I considered getting Hartmann Rotor Arm reps, but what kept me away is that they didn't seem as concave as OEM and that was a major consideration for me. I love the concave look. If I remember correctly, the offset was a bit weaker than OEM as well.

Are the OEM Rotor Arm wheels forged? Are the Hartmann reps forged?

Neither are forged.

You are correct. I had them on my A4, and they are absolutely more aggressive than the OEM A4 rotors. The OEM A5 rotors are marginally more aggressive.
Hartmann does have two fits of their rotor, one is meant for the A4 and a more aggressive offset for the A5. However, when I asked, the more aggressive offset is just achieved by a thicker hub pad and not a more concave wheel.

My rotors went to a friend's A5 -- here is a pic. The finish on the hartmanns is darker than the OEM finish - I like the darker a lot better. Not sure if I'd prefer the darker hartmann finish or the more aggressive OEM wheel on the A5 though.

B8 A5 on Hartmann HTT-256-MA:M by Nick Gangemi, on Flickr

[RockJGC]

Neither are forged.

You are correct. I had them on my A4, and they are absolutely more aggressive than the OEM A4 rotors. The OEM A5 rotors are marginally more aggressive.
Hartmann does have two fits of their rotor, one is meant for the A4 and a more aggressive offset for the A5. However, when I asked, the more aggressive offset is just achieved by a thicker hub pad and not a more concave wheel.

My rotors went to a friend's A5 -- here is a pic. The finish on the hartmanns is darker than the OEM finish - I like the darker a lot better. Not sure if I'd prefer the darker hartmann finish or the more aggressive OEM wheel on the A5 though.

B8 A5 on Hartmann HTT-256-MA:M by Nick Gangemi, on Flickr

So I was thinking about picking up a spare set of OEM Rotor Arm wheels and spraying them with a two-stage clearcoat. This would most definitely provide a slightly darker color and a glossy finish, compared to the flat grey finish of the OEM wheels. The problem is that I can't find anyone selling a set of A5/S5 OEM Rotor Arm wheels.

[gdd9000]

I'm a complete idiot when it comes to wheels, and I really need help. The pic above is the wheel I'm looking for, but I was hoping to buy an OEM and not sure whether it fits my car. I've got a 2008 S5, and it originally had OEM 32mm offset 19x8.5 wheels...5 spoke, 5 lugs, 112mm bolt pattern. I realy didn't like them, and wanted something different, and yes, I know, go ahead beat me up, got a pair of peelers from a 2011 and put them on. They are apparently identical except 33mm offset and 19x9 I believe -so, um NOT identical. They have been nothing but trouble from day 1. I can never balance the tires, there is always vibration, no matter how many alignments, high speed balancings. road force balancings, etc, its a disaster. I had them straightened, all four, as apparently that was the problem, but that didnt help either. I just need them gone. One thing I was wondering was, since they are 19x9, when Im getting new tires, and they are putting original size tires on the car based on the 19 x 8.5, vs 19x9, is this a problem?? The original tires were Dunlop sportmaxx 255/35/19. I think the wheels are from 2011 or 2012, but they appear to use the same 255/35/19 tires, so this probably isnt part of the issue.

What I want is the 5 spoke rotor, preferably not nearly as shiny as the peeler, which looks ridiculous with the deep sea blue metallic. A basic anthracite would be great. But heck, anything less shiny would be fantastic.

I dont want to lower the car, and if there was any change, I wouldnt mind seeing the wheels slightly closer to the fenders, but definitely will not tolerate any rub of rim or tire, so I'd prefer not to have to change any specs.

This wheel apparently would fit, seeing as it has the same specs as my peelers. But im wondering if the 33mm vs 32mm difference is part of my problem. Id think that such a small offset change wouldnt make any big deal to how the car rides. I think its probably just that my peelers are shit/shot, etc.

https://www.audipartsstore.com/oem-p...-8t0071499cax1

The problem I have with these wheels is that they are crazy expensive. I was hoping something like this would be more like $4-500 a pop max. I really cant stomach dropping $3000 on wheels right now. Plus I'd get clobbered if someone found out.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

[Skyler@Achtuning]

The pic above is the wheel I'm looking for, but I was hoping to buy an OEM and not sure whether it fits my car. I've got a 2008 S5, and it originally had OEM 32mm offset 19x8.5 wheels...5 spoke, 5 lugs, 112mm bolt pattern. I really didn't like them, and wanted something different, and yes, I know, go ahead beat me up, got a pair of peelers from a 2011 and put them on. They are apparently identical except 33mm offset and 19x9 I believe -so, um NOT identical. They have been nothing but trouble from day 1. I can never balance the tires, there is always vibration, no matter how many alignments, high speed balancings. road force balancings, etc, its a disaster. I had them straightened, all four, as apparently that was the problem, but that didn't help either. I just need them gone. One thing I was wondering was, since they are 19x9, when I'm getting new tires, and they are putting original size tires on the car based on the 19 x 8.5, vs 19x9, is this a problem?

Cars have a range of wheel widths, offsets, and tire sizes that are acceptable. Changing the offset can have unexpected results which come from effectively changing the leverage placed on the suspension components by moving the centerpoint of the wheel further away from the pivot point of the suspension. Most commonly it seems that an offset change that results in what feels like an imbalance issue is due to the increased load on the control arms which can make worn bushings feel much more apparent. I suspect that an Audi in NJ probably has an upper control arm life expectancy of about 40-60k (maybe less), lowers will last a bit longer. Getting a quality alignment after making sure the suspension is in good shape is important as well, by that I mean go to a specialty euro shop and not a $69 "lifetime" alignment.

A 255/35-19 will fit a wheel width from 8.5" to 10.0" so no worries choosing between an 8.5" and 9.0".

The original tires were Dunlop sportmaxx 255/35/19. I think the wheels are from 2011 or 2012, but they appear to use the same 255/35/19 tires, so this probably isn't part of the issue.

That should be fine.

What I want is the 5 spoke rotor, preferably not nearly as shiny as the peeler, which looks ridiculous with the deep sea blue metallic. A basic anthracite would be great. But heck, anything less shiny would be fantastic.

Our Hartmann HTT-256-MA:M in 19" ET25 are a great fit on the S5s. We even have a "blem" set (very minor finish imperfections) on sale for 30% off https://www.achtuning.com/hartmann-b...r-audi-and-vw/

I don't want to lower the car, and if there was any change, I wouldn't mind seeing the wheels slightly closer to the fenders, but definitely will not tolerate any rub of rim or tire, so I'd prefer not to have to change any specs.

On a 255 the B8 S5 can go out to ET12 front and ET7 rear without rubbing.

This wheel apparently would fit, seeing as it has the same specs as my peelers. But I'm wondering if the 33mm vs 32mm difference is part of my problem. Id think that such a small offset change wouldn't make any big deal to how the car rides. I think its probably just that my peelers are shit/shot, etc.

https://www.audipartsstore.com/oem-p...-8t0071499cax1

Those look like they would fit fine.

The problem I have with these wheels is that they are crazy expensive. I was hoping something like this would be more like $4-500 a pop max. I really cant stomach dropping $3000 on wheels right now. Plus I'd get clobbered if someone found out.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

That's why Hartmann exists :) an OEM quality wheel at significantly less cost.

[gdd9000]

Thanks, this is very helpful. The Hartmann's in the pic I referenced look fine, and I had bookmarked a set previously, just didn't know what trouble I might be making for myself.

If the offset is an ET25 on the Hartmanns vs the 33 offset on the peelers, then I assume these will sit out just slightly closer to the fender edge, which is a plus, as the OEM setup looks a bit staid.

As for your discussion of suspension. Yes, I live in NJ, and the roads are really quite awful. I try to steer around as many potholes and sunken manholes as possible, but occasionally, hit one. It's brutal.

I have 77,000 miles on the car now, and the peelers were straightened at 69,000. I also had a nail in a tire which was repaired, about 1000 miles ago. I think vibration issues probably got worse after that flat fix.

The tires have 11k miles on them, and are my third set, Pirelli P Zero All Seasons (after the original dunlops, twice, replaced at 25k, then Michelin pilot sport a/s 3 at 45k, then the Pirelli's at 66k. (Despite not driving the car very hard, I seem to eat tires.) The Pirellis are nice around town, but whine on the highway, especially with newly paved roads. It's rather irritating.

I tried NTB a couple of times for tires and alignments, but they are really quite awful and usually have to bring the car back after I get it, because either the balance is off or something is wrong. I don't trust them to work on my car anymore, and next set of tires will be done at dealer.

Control arm bushings front, both sides, were replaced at 60k.

I suppose if I get the new rims, I could sacrifice the tires at 10k, or maybe get the rims, hold them, burn up the tires a bit more, then get the wheel set installed with new treads. The tire decision always distresses me. I used to like Yokohama's, never tried continentals, had mostly good experiences with Michelin, until my S5 (cant remember what I didnt like about them) and the Pirellis, as I said, are mixed. I dont drive like a crazy person at the limit, and because I dont change out winter tires, I run all seasons, which are fine for the driving I do. Not sure anyone has any particular recommendations for the S5 on the Hartmanns using the stock 255/35/19 tires, AS, but would be happy to hear thoughts.

Thanks again.

[A6sport]

I will just say, in the last 15 years I've owned 5 or 6 sets of Hartmann wheels, and they've been every bit as good as any OE/OEM wheel. If you treat the wheel finish as you would the body panel finish on the car, you'll have no problems. I've hit some pot holes in IL, and MN that I thought would surly bend a wheel, and I've been pleasantly surprised! I'm on my 6th set on my very modified A5 2.0t (stage III) I just like saying stage 3... The FF 003 CG is my latest, and the wheel is an awesome deal for 410 per wheel. Skyler's not bad either...

[Skyler@Achtuning]

If the offset is an ET25 on the Hartmanns vs the 33 offset on the peelers, then I assume these will sit out just slightly closer to the fender edge, which is a plus, as the OEM setup looks a bit staid.

I feel I should note that the Hartmann 8.5" ET25 vs your original 8.5" ET32 OEM wheels will have the Hartmanns sitting out 7mm further, comparing the ET25 Hartmanns to your current 9.0" ET33 peelers the Hartmanns will only sit out 2mm further due to the 8.5" vs 9.0" width difference, still more flush fitting but only slightly.

[gdd9000]

I probably won't even notice 2mm, but at least the wheel will be moving slightly in the right direction.

My problem now is whether to go with the A-grade or B-grade blems. It's easy to see how nice the former will be, but I can't really picture what the blems would like, only that the description says "minor cosmetic imperfections in the finish such as small specks of lint or dust in the paint" - has anyone bought blems and can describe how much worse these look than A-grade? Thx!

[A6sport]

It really is minor and I consider myself somewhat OCDC... The blems really are minor. really. Go with the A grade if you're over 40, if younger, and need to save, go "B."

[03TLSinCO]

It really is minor and I consider myself somewhat OCDC... The blems really are minor. really. Go with the A grade if you're over 40, if younger, and need to save, go "B."

Maybe that should be reversed. If you're over 40, you may not be able to see the blems at all!

[A6sport]

Maybe that should be reversed. If you're over 40, you may not be able to see the blems at all!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...uSeKu1Suw8C2m3

[gdd9000]

Thanks for the hilarious replies. My logic was : 1) putting on a 2008 car with plenty of its own blems, so blem wheels would fit with the general character 2) dont want to invest a lot in an old car 3) dont want to spend money on the car and hear about how much was spent 4) Im 52, and yes, my eyes would like need my reader glasses to notice the blems up close.

So, this all sort of points to choosing the blems, save for being over 40 and not really needing to save $. But just because I could afford the non-blems, doesnt mean I should spend the extra $ on them when it could be used for other more important purchases that would likely provide significantly greater utility. Plus, in no time, with all the parking I have to do, I'll end up with a little rim rash, which will make all the blems that much less noticeable in comparison to the new damage.

[A6sport]

Maybe that should be reversed. If you're over 40, you may not be able to see the blems at all!

Ba ha ha ha ha… you are exactly right!

[gdd9000]

Only took me five years, but I finally got these today!