18z Porsche Cayenne Brakes on an A3?

[Emericasktr1]

Heard some things about this. Has anyone on this forum actually done this conversion? Was any mount modifications needed or was it pretty much a direct fit?

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[MikTip]

The aluminum knuckle is too thick....

[Chaoscreature]

Are there any decent low cost options to get some 4-6 piston fixed calipers on an A3?
I was looking at the Wilwood kit for a MK6 GTI. 2 piece rotors, lightweight calipers... but can't verify if they will fit. They would only be a marginal upgrade for an S3 with a moderate 328x25mm rotor, but I like that they will clear 17" wheels no problem as well.

[MikTip]

Are there any decent low cost options to get some 4-6 piston fixed calipers on an A3?
I was looking at the Wilwood kit for a MK6 GTI. 2 piece rotors, lightweight calipers... but can't verify if they will fit. They would only be a marginal upgrade for an S3 with a moderate 328x25mm rotor, but I like that they will clear 17" wheels no problem as well.

The 17" wheels will be the limiting factor....

Audi S3 brakes are 340mm.

TTRS are 370....

But with 17's your very limited...

[MikTip]

TTS Brakes



2x OEM Audi 4pot Calipers Left and Right, product code

8S0615107G

8S0615108G

Supposedly work under 17" wheels....

Requirements:

Front discs size 340x30mm Product code: 1k0615301ad or 8s0615301
Audi TTS Brake lines or custom metallic Hel brake lines
Minimum wheel size 17″
depending on your wheels ET and J you might need spacers (Ex: with stock Cadiz 13mm spacers are required)

[Spinnetti]

If you are going for looks, by all means.. If for the track, just invest in proper track pads. Not seen a stock brake system yet that's not up to the job when fed with proper race pads.

[Emericasktr1]

Appreciate the feedback. I seen rotor lab actually sells a 18z kit for the A3 and am going to look into it

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[MikTip]

Appreciate the feedback. I seen rotor lab actually sells a 18z kit for the A3 and am going to look into it

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Theres the older A3...and the Newer...A3...

From RotorLabs website:

THE MK7 PLATFORM (MQB) IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANIMAL, FOLKS. WE GET 8-10 CALLS A MONTH ABOUT THE MK7---IT IS NOT CUT AND DRY. ONLY A FEW OF THE MK7 VARIATIONS WILL WORK. CALL US AND WE WILL EXPLAIN.

[MikTip]

https://ceika-store.com

[Chaoscreature]

Spinetti, I agree that upgraded pads can do wonders.
BUT a little extra thermal mass and some extra moment arm never hurts :)
Honestly, my biggest motivation is to shed some weight by getting rid of the awful cast-iron floating calipers. Going with a 2-piece rotor will almost make up for the additional mass of the vented rotors.

[S3DUDE]

Are there any decent low cost options to get some 4-6 piston fixed calipers on an A3?
I was looking at the Wilwood kit for a MK6 GTI. 2 piece rotors, lightweight calipers... but can't verify if they will fit. They would only be a marginal upgrade for an S3 with a moderate 328x25mm rotor, but I like that they will clear 17" wheels no problem as well.

I had Stoptechs BBK on my S3 and I loved it. You can also try neuspeed in California, once a year they run a 30% discount on calipers. Even the stock S3 brakes are a decent upgrade to an A3.

[Erikwithak01]

Old thread, but my information is good, so here it goes...

The 95B 4-piston, all aluminum Brembo caliper used on many cars, is a direct bolt on for the A3, and S3, just gotta run the 340mm S3 rotor size. These 95B calipers weigh just 9.4lbs, which is half the weight of the stock caliper at 18.8lbs. This caliper is found on the Macan base model, and the Q5 for reference.

Now, slap on a set of 2-piece ECS rotors, and you lose 5.15lbs per side in the front. So, with that setup together, it equals a per corner weight savings of 14.55lbs. So in total, shedding 29.1lbs of unsprung weight IN MY OPINION amounts to a significant savings.

The calipers in question can be bought NEW from many Porsche part outlets for about $255 each, and I'm sure you'll find cheaper used ones on Ebay. You can also use the STI Subaru pads with these as well, you just have to go without the brake wear sensor.

[Spinnetti]

Is that caliper the same one as the TTS caliper? (sounds like it) lots of places sell a "kit" with those. I've got an S3 and would like some lighter calipers though the brake performance of the S3 is just fine IMO.

[Gberg888]

Q5 Brembos bolt onto the S3 apparently... cheap, 4 piston calipers. I will be putting them on my car when I need to do brakes in a summer or 2.

[crxgator]

Macan / Q5 calipers on my A3. Used stock S3 rotors and dust shields. Custom brake lines from Techna-fit, and 04-13 STI pads.


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[rex_racer]

Macan / Q5 calipers on my A3. Used stock S3 rotors and dust shields. Custom brake lines from Techna-fit, and 04-13 STI pads.

The 95B 4-piston, all aluminum Brembo caliper used on many cars, is a direct bolt on for the A3, and S3, just gotta run the 340mm S3 rotor size. These 95B calipers weigh just 9.4lbs, which is half the weight of the stock caliper at 18.8lbs. This caliper is found on the Macan base model, and the Q5 for reference.

The calipers in question can be bought NEW from many Porsche part outlets for about $255 each, and I'm sure you'll find cheaper used ones on Ebay. You can also use the STI Subaru pads with these as well, you just have to go without the brake wear sensor.

How does the master cylinder do with these calipers? Is the piston area the same as stock? Does the pedal travel deeper? Is the caliper open face such that you could do quick pad changes? How is pad selection with the STI? Pad selection on the factory S3 caliper is quite poor.

[Spinnetti]

Rex, you can get any compound you want - Porterfield will custom make them for you. I've used them for decades. Their R4S compound is an especially good value. With good pads a caliper upgrade is unnecessary, though the weight savings and quick pad changes do appeal, but then again, with the right pads you don't need quick pad changes. I do 14-24hr races and never change the pads.

[rex_racer]

Rex, you can get any compound you want - Porterfield will custom make them for you. I've used them for decades. Their R4S compound is an especially good value. With good pads a caliper upgrade is unnecessary, though the weight savings and quick pad changes do appeal, but then again, with the right pads you don't need quick pad changes. I do 14-24hr races and never change the pads.

I'm looking for more off the shelf options instead of going the custom route and lead time each time I need new pads.

[Erikwithak01]

The master cylinder for the newer Q5, and base model Macan, are the same part number, and I'm pretty certain they share the same swept surface area, and volume displacement as the A/S3 at least. They may be the same part as well...but I'm gonna need to do a little finding on my computer later to pin that down for certain. If I do, I will add that info here.

There are already quite a few mk.7 owners doing this swap, and have been for a while. Those cars use the same part numbers for all their brake components as our A/S3's have (the PP GTI uses the same rotors as the S3 too). I haven't read anything about this setup ruining their balancing. I'm in this purely for the weight savings, and reduced cost over everything else out there.

Add this weight savings to a cheap(er) set of actually light wheels, like an Enkei PF01, or RPF1, which are in the 17.5 - 18.2 pound territory in 18x8.5; and you are looking at another 16lbs or so total (stocks being about 27lbs themselves). Now add that 29lbs from earlier and you get 45 POUNDS of unsprung, and rotational mass. That's about as good as it gets on a street car, and these ones will benefit even more since they're already front heavy as it is. Congratulations! You just removed your car's battery worth of weight in the BEST possible place.

Wanna put a 7lb Shorai lithium-Ion battery under the hood, and shave off another 38lbs from the nose, and now you're at 83lbs off the nose of the car! This is my strategy for counter acting the added weight a gtx2867r is gonna add, in my case :P

[texasboy21]

The master cylinder for the newer Q5, and base model Macan, are the same part number, and I'm pretty certain they share the same swept surface area, and volume displacement as the A/S3 at least. They may be the same part as well...but I'm gonna need to do a little finding on my computer later to pin that down for certain. If I do, I will add that info here.

There are already quite a few mk.7 owners doing this swap, and have been for a while. Those cars use the same part numbers for all their brake components as our A/S3's have (the PP GTI uses the same rotors as the S3 too). I haven't read anything about this setup ruining their balancing. I'm in this purely for the weight savings, and reduced cost over everything else out there.

Add this weight savings to a cheap(er) set of actually light wheels, like an Enkei PF01, or RPF1, which are in the 17.5 - 18.2 pound territory in 18x8.5; and you are looking at another 16lbs or so total (stocks being about 27lbs themselves). Now add that 29lbs from earlier and you get 45 POUNDS of unsprung, and rotational mass. That's about as good as it gets on a street car, and these ones will benefit even more since they're already front heavy as it is. Congratulations! You just removed your car's battery worth of weight in the BEST possible place.

Wanna put a 7lb Shorai lithium-Ion battery under the hood, and shave off another 38lbs from the nose, and now you're at 83lbs off the nose of the car! This is my strategy for counter acting the added weight a gtx2867r is gonna add, in my case :P

Very good info!

[Erikwithak01]

Thanks :) I've spent a lot of time on car forums. I'm actually an event coordinator for the PNW chapter of Corvetteforum as well.

I can appreciate having a place to find the hard numbers. Not many people go out of their way to add the aggregate data to the community knowledge base.

[texasboy21]

Thanks :) I've spent a lot of time on car forums. I'm actually an event coordinator for the PNW chapter of Corvetteforum as well.

I can appreciate having a place to find the hard numbers. Not many people go out of their way to add the aggregate data to the community knowledge base.

Add in a catless downpipe and move the battery to the trunk and you have taken off another 20+ lbs from the front.

...waits patiently for warranty to expire..

[Erikwithak01]

Also a possibility, but once you move to a light weight battery; adding another 10lbs of 4ga/0T gauge wire is going the wrong direction IMHO. 7lbs or so is not gonna offset the drivers weight in any significant fashion, and the labor involved makes it just plain silly. Now if you were keeping your stock battery, yeah, I agree with you.

I DID forget about the catless DP, good call!

[crxgator]

After finally getting all the air out of the lines (bled four times) I can say this is a great upgrade and pedal pressure is good


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[rex_racer]

After finally getting all the air out of the lines (bled four times) I can say this is a great upgrade and pedal pressure is good

Would you say pedal pressure is the same as stock?

[crxgator]

Yes. You can also adjust the pedal through vcds


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[texasboy21]

Yes. You can also adjust the pedal through vcds


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Interesting, can you elaborate?

[crxgator]

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[949]

Yes. You can also adjust the pedal through vcds


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i have also been looking for steering wheel adjustments. do you know any info on that?

[texasboy21]

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Thanks for posting!

[AlexQS]

This is a good thread. I’ll probably upgrade when it’s brake time.

My previous car was a 99 Boxter with factory 4 Piston Brembo Calipers all around. I had put SS lines on it too.

I can confirm that Boxter Calipers are different than the Macan / Q5 listed above. So don’t waste time trying to see if they would fit.

My A3 stock brakes certainly work. I have a difficult time wrapping my mind around why the 4 piston calipers seem to work better, because the weak link in being able to decelerate is the tires, not the brakes. Pushing hard on the brake pedal of either will simply lock (or rather engage ABS)

I do think that the Porsche had more feedback in the brake pedal, which was also a little firmer and inspired more confidence. I feel I had better ability to control/modulate the Porsche brakes, going hard and deep toward turn-in and being able to precisely push the brakes to the limit of right before ABS would engage. Audi pedal comparatively feels to mushy to have that kind of control. I’m sure a brake fluid change is due.

Haven’t pushed the Audi that hard yet, still getting used to it. As much as I miss the pride I would take in nailing a perfectly rev-matched double-clutching heel&toe downshift, I’m learning ‘when’ to downshift the DSG. It’s a little quicker than I was therefor need to downshift a little later than I’m used to. Slowly approaching a red light turning green, I think I was a little smoother revmatching down to first gear. That’s the only place DSG feels a little clunky to me.

Sorry,.. I got a little off topic. Glad to hear about compatability for Porsche Calipers for the Audi.

Cheers!

[Erikwithak01]

The point is the 50% reduction in unsprung mass, not necessarily anything else. I believe there is a little more swept surface because of a larger brake pad, but that would be negligible at best.

If you go to stage.2 and have the top speed limiter removed, you will find out right quick just how inadequate the brakes are for killing triple digit speeds :{ You get ONE good stop at 130mph, lol. A lot of that has to do with the rears on the A3 as well, since they are thin, solid rotors with no internal veins to shed head. Upgrading to the S3 rear is a good idea if your drive your A3 hard. Using a laser thermometer, my stock rear rotors regularly see twice the temp my fronts are at by the end of an HPDE stint.

[AlexQS]

Yes, that weight difference is very attractive. At present looking at loosing a little weight in the road-wheels themselves.

Thanks for the insight on the rear rotor temps. I would never have guessed since most breaking is on the front, but having less rotor in rear to sink/shed the heat makes sense.

[misterdood]

I'm with you on the benefits of reducing unsprung mass, OP. And some say "you don't need brakes if you aren't tracking" yes, that is probably true. But once you experience a certain level of something, it's hard to go back. I had a MKV R32 which I modded heavily years ago, now I'm missing the brakes, suspension, etc, that I had on that car, and have got the damn mod bug again.....

Dunno if you've heard of Racing Brake, but I put one of their kits on my R32 and absolutely loved it. That kit was 4 piston aluminum calipers with 330x30 rotors. They make very lightweight calipers and rotors. The calipers in that kit are only 4.5 lbs. Don't recall rotor weights but it was massive weight loss for that car (would be less for the A3 obviously, but still an overall reduction despite larger rotors, I'm guessing). And despite rotors being smaller than (R32) stock diameter, stopping power and pedal feel were far better than stock. I don't know for sure if this kit is compatible with an 8V A3, but their site says compatible with 8P A3 or MK 5/6 VW and I see other brake kits out there with overlapping fitment compatibility with 8V and those models, so I'm guessing yes? Note you need lines with this kit (I got the lines they offered) as fittings are different. The only thing I didn't like about that kit were the pads. They squealed like crazy. I got some yellow stuff pads which didn't fit right out of the box (I had to cut off corners of the backing plates a bit, which wasn't hard - hack saw, file/sand the rough edges) and those pads with this kit were awesome. No squeal, no fade, just awesome power and pedal feel with minimal weight. I brought my car to a local VW/Audi tuner shop at one point and the owner drove it and commented after "your brakes, are.... AWESOME".

I gather TTS calipers (4 piston and work with Golf R / S3 340x30 rotors) are compatible, and Racing Brake makes Golf R /S3 rotors as well. They do list weight for those rotors as 17.5 lbs compared to stock 23.4 lbs (so whatever the 330x30 rotors weigh would obviously be less than 17.5).

Looks like they also make rotors for 18z calipers.

OK, now someone's going to ask "how much are they paying you?" I have no affiliation - just had a good experience and don't hear them mentioned much so thought I'd throw it out there FWIW. Proof? I'll point out that I just saw some negative feedback on their FB page (linked on their site). One guy sounds like he was upset that he would have to modify his dust shields. I forgot till I read that - I had to do that on my R32 when I mounted their kit also. I used a tin snips and took ~5min of cutting and a little bending - it was not difficult. Another guy with a Golf R said he had a rotor fail on an HPDE day and they wouldn't refund him. That sounds bad, so IDK - I might try to research more before buying their stuff again, but before that I heard only positive things about them. I originally heard about this company on VWVortex and several guys there had them on R32s, doing track days, etc, and everyone seemed to love them as far as I heard back then (this was a few years back).

Haven't decided yet, and will probably do other mods before I get to the brakes, but I'm researching and if I can confirm the same kit I got before will work on an 8V A3 (and I don't find other reports of rotor failures and no refund scenarios) I will probably get the same kit again.

[Erikwithak01]

Rotors fail. Nature of the beast. If your rotors don't fail after so many hours in HPDE, it's because you haven't unlocked your potential as a driver yet. I whole heartedly believe that.

When I started racing SPEC Corvette with my C5, I bought a PALLET of high Nickel content Candian Napa rotors for the car (regulations state stock power levels and peripherals) and would replace the whole set 3-6 times a weekend, and those were solid steel stock replacements.

I have had run in's with people who own RB brakes on their Vette's, and they don't live long on a proper performance car :/ you do still NEED some meat on your caliper to sink heat (unless you have fancy ones with air channels machined into them, like the Radi-Cal Essex setup) and handle the stress of deep braking repeatedly. I've also seen one of their calipers brake both the mounting ears off on one side, and their dust boots are a joke for anything other than street driving. Don't get me wrong, they are just fine street cruisers, but they have a generally accepted lower limit for torture than say a Stoptech, Brembo, Alcon, Mu, etc, etc.

Please reference this thread on mk.5 - mk.7 Golf brake parts. Pretty sure you're gonna find an answer or two there :)

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...alipers-on-MK5

[misterdood]

Nice, thanks for the link!

Good to know about RB. Sounds like maybe they go too far in reducing weight at the expense of durability - at least for hardcore track use. Maybe still a good choice for street and drag if weight reduction is first priority.

Anyone tried or heard anything about this Forge kit?

[Erikwithak01]

That is actually the kit I had planned on before I discovered this thread, and started doing more in depth OEM research.

The Forge setup is an excellent aftermarket alternative.

[Gberg888]

I'm with you on the benefits of reducing unsprung mass, OP. And some say "you don't need brakes if you aren't tracking" yes, that is probably true. But once you experience a certain level of something, it's hard to go back. I had a MKV R32 which I modded heavily years ago, now I'm missing the brakes, suspension, etc, that I had on that car, and have got the damn mod bug again.....

Dunno if you've heard of Racing Brake, but I put one of their kits on my R32 and absolutely loved it. That kit was 4 piston aluminum calipers with 330x30 rotors. They make very lightweight calipers and rotors. The calipers in that kit are only 4.5 lbs. Don't recall rotor weights but it was massive weight loss for that car (would be less for the A3 obviously, but still an overall reduction despite larger rotors, I'm guessing). And despite rotors being smaller than (R32) stock diameter, stopping power and pedal feel were far better than stock. I don't know for sure if this kit is compatible with an 8V A3, but their site says compatible with 8P A3 or MK 5/6 VW and I see other brake kits out there with overlapping fitment compatibility with 8V and those models, so I'm guessing yes? Note you need lines with this kit (I got the lines they offered) as fittings are different. The only thing I didn't like about that kit were the pads. They squealed like crazy. I got some yellow stuff pads which didn't fit right out of the box (I had to cut off corners of the backing plates a bit, which wasn't hard - hack saw, file/sand the rough edges) and those pads with this kit were awesome. No squeal, no fade, just awesome power and pedal feel with minimal weight. I brought my car to a local VW/Audi tuner shop at one point and the owner drove it and commented after "your brakes, are.... AWESOME".

I gather TTS calipers (4 piston and work with Golf R / S3 340x30 rotors) are compatible, and Racing Brake makes Golf R /S3 rotors as well. They do list weight for those rotors as 17.5 lbs compared to stock 23.4 lbs (so whatever the 330x30 rotors weigh would obviously be less than 17.5).

Looks like they also make rotors for 18z calipers.

OK, now someone's going to ask "how much are they paying you?" I have no affiliation - just had a good experience and don't hear them mentioned much so thought I'd throw it out there FWIW. Proof? I'll point out that I just saw some negative feedback on their FB page (linked on their site). One guy sounds like he was upset that he would have to modify his dust shields. I forgot till I read that - I had to do that on my R32 when I mounted their kit also. I used a tin snips and took ~5min of cutting and a little bending - it was not difficult. Another guy with a Golf R said he had a rotor fail on an HPDE day and they wouldn't refund him. That sounds bad, so IDK - I might try to research more before buying their stuff again, but before that I heard only positive things about them. I originally heard about this company on VWVortex and several guys there had them on R32s, doing track days, etc, and everyone seemed to love them as far as I heard back then (this was a few years back).

Haven't decided yet, and will probably do other mods before I get to the brakes, but I'm researching and if I can confirm the same kit I got before will work on an 8V A3 (and I don't find other reports of rotor failures and no refund scenarios) I will probably get the same kit again.

I ran a racingbrake kit on my Mk4 R32.

Loved them and beat the shit out of them on the track!

[misterdood]

Nice Gberg888! I have heard mostly good good about RB and had good experience myself, though admit only did one HPDE and it was before my RB kit. I might still go that route but exploring options first. And don't know about you but I miss that wookie howl. The R will always hold a special place.

Erikwithak01 (who is not actually OP but a different user that starts with E and ends in 1 is, haha) what have you seen / heard about that Forge kit or any Forge brakes? I found a couple of positive reviews of that kit from GTI owners on VWVortex, but thats all so far. I think one said the calipers were about 7.6 lbs. Not as light as RBs, but 6 piston and come with EBC yellows. Tempting.

Chaoscreature mentioned Wilwood - I searched around and found this kit, which is much less expensive. Research continues...

[AlexQS]

Macan / Q5 calipers on my A3. Used stock S3 rotors and dust shields. Custom brake lines from Techna-fit, and 04-13 STI pads.


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This is awesome! Any insight on part # for Calipers? I've been searching various Q5 and Macan calipers, and finding several variations.

Looks like S3 (8V) uses 340 x 30 rotors, so that's easy.

I'm finding Q5 using 345mm rotors, so not sure if that Caliper that goes with that is the right one to fit A3 (8V).

I'm finding kits like this (which I could probably source cheaper elsewhere): https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part.../95b615123fkt/
These Macan Calipers are said to fit B8 S4 for example, but no mention of 8V A3

I'm also finding things like this: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...vD_BwE#fitment
Says it fits 2015 A4, but no mention of A3

Hoping maybe it's just the brake-lines that are different, because it should be simple enough to find custom SS Lines with correct fittings.

What year is your A3?

Do you have any part numbers, or links to what you bought that you can share?

Did you need Wheel Spacers?

Did you paint those yourself? The look sharp! Appears similar shape to some unfinished metal Q5 calipers I have seen.

Appreciate any direction you can provide from your experience.