Golf R Intake Camshaft - whos done it?

[boostin20v]

I need to replace my intake camshaft, looking for input on which revision I should used. Who has used the Golf R intake camshaft? Seems like the best choice of the factory camshafts. Input?

IMG_20190316_162130.jpg

I'm swapping because I managed to destroy a cam follower and Autotech HPFP internals...and the intact cam follower pictured was brand new and used for ~3500 miles. Clearly I need to replace the cam. Pic also shows damage to the Autotech internals.

[EvolutionArmory]

I thought the intake cam was identical between the Golf R and ours except for the HPFP lobe might provide a little more lift on the HPFP.

They may even be 100% identical.

[boostin20v]

Not from what I've been reading, Golf R and TTS use different profiles.
http://bd8ba3c866c8cbc330ab-7b26c6f3...om/FSIvTSI.pdf

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[EvolutionArmory]

It would be cool to see the specs on paper to know for sure.

[i3oricua]

You'll likely require a tune to have it run right. My understanding is the Golf R is an upgraded cam compared to ours. Canadian is the only person I know of running one.

[canadianA4B7]

Not from what I've been reading, Golf R and TTS use different profiles.
http://bd8ba3c866c8cbc330ab-7b26c6f3...om/FSIvTSI.pdf

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I’m happy to read you’ve done some reasearch. Many here lack the ability to do so.

I’ll pm you the rest of the info as I find it satisfying to watch the un informed post incorrect info.

[EvolutionArmory]

Come on Candian, post the actual lift and profile differences if you have them.

At least in the MK7 Golf R (I know they aren’t the same as ours) it’s the EXHAUST cam that is different and the intake cam is the same according to DAP parts.

Post the actual specs and show us how much of a smarty pants you are. I’m not too proud to admit if I’m wrong if I am. I’d welcome the opportunity as I’d learn something.

[EvolutionArmory]

Arin from APR has also commented that the intake cam for the Golf R/S3/TTS has a different HPFP lobe but the other lobes are the same and that it’s the EXHAUST cam that has a different duration. Since we are talking about the intake cam in this thread, I’d say him throwing in a Golf R intake cam will do nothing for him :)

So unless you have some actual measurements, I’m going to have to go with those 2 much more reliable sources.

Again, I’m happy to learn something.

[EvolutionArmory]

And no single S3/Golf R/TTS engine mod is going to yield any NOTICABLE power increase. Those cars also have lower compression pistons and other internal differences that combined help get more power.

Notice how hardly anyone uses these cams as an upgrade and those that do report no noticeable increase over stock 🤣

[Charles.waite]

The Golf R and TT-S use the same cams. Both intake and exhaust are different parts than the BPG/BPY/BWT cams. I'll post etka screengrabs in a minute. I've read that they're higher lift but nothing really to confirm that with hard data. But that coupled with the revised internals is why Golf-R guys can make more power with a stock K04 turbo than we can.

B7 cams:


TT-S cams (BPY is the TT, CDMA is the S):


Golf-R cams:


These are straight from ETKA, there have been revisions but the revisions never overlap or converge. So they’re distinct parts.

[Charles.waite]

And to clarify, they definitely use different part numbers as evidenced by my screenshots but that doesn’t tell us what the physical differences are between the tt-s/golf-r cams and the standard FSI cams.

[boostin20v]

Arin from APR has also commented that the intake cam for the Golf R/S3/TTS has a different HPFP lobe but the other lobes are the same

Link?

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[EvolutionArmory]

A link from the EA113 technical forum on VW Vortex
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...topics/5392033

A screen shot of one of Arin’s Posts.

[EvolutionArmory]

But hey, what do I know?

If you need a new cam, go for it. It will most likely do nothing for you but won’t hurt either. Maybe you’ll get a little more high pressure fuel, maybe not.

[boostin20v]

But hey, what do I know?

If you need a new cam, go for it. It will most likely do nothing for you but won’t hurt either. Maybe you’ll get a little more high pressure fuel, maybe not.

The Golf R/TTS were models sold in model years after Arin's post about an unrelated camshaft fwiw.

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[Charles.waite]

Just looking at pictures on ECS’s site, the golf r cam HPFP lobes seem taller/pointier than ours, so that could definitely be possible.

I thought it was the valve lobes but given many of the golf r guys push 300whp without pump upgrades what he’s saying seems reasonable.

[EvolutionArmory]

Just looking at pictures on ECS’s site, the golf r cam HPFP lobes seem taller/pointier than ours, so that could definitely be possible.

I thought it was the valve lobes but given many of the golf r guys push 300whp without pump upgrades what he’s saying seems reasonable.

If you can tell cam profile and lift from a picture, you have some amazing eyes. 😀

Until someone shows a print with the profile and height, there is no proof that the Golf R/TTS/S3 intake cam does anything or is an upgrade. From all of the threads I’ve read, only the fuel pump lobe provides more lift.

The exhaust cam could provide more lift according to my research.

[Charles.waite]

B7 HPFP lobe:


Golf R lobe:


Maybe I’m imagining it but it seems slightly pointier. I would imagine it doesn’t take a ton more area to get more pressure out of the pump given the tolerances.

[EvolutionArmory]

Oh, I have no doubt in my mind that the Golf R HPFP lobe is different than ours. It explains how stage I MK6 Golf R’s can make the same power as a K04 B7 without having to get a HPFP upgrade. The difference in lift is enough to supply the fuel volume. It basically does similar things as a HPFP upgrade would for us but handles it from the other end. A post on a MK5 forum suggested that the R cam can supply about 12% more fuel volume.

What I’m saying is that is most likely the only difference.

If anyone wants to know if this is a good upgrade, just look at the MKV GTI crowd. If it was worthwhile, everyone would do it and let’s face it, there are a lot more big turbo and K04 GTI’s out there but yet they don’t bother with it because it’s just easier to get a HPFP upgrade and not have to tear your motor apart.

[canadianA4B7]

Have a good look, you likely cannot see it with these photos, golf R is more shaped like a soccer ball then a torpedo. I do have measurements on old phone. The follower lobe has slightly oposite more torpedo less soccer ball I do recall it measuring a few .001 mm larger this cud likely have been wear but the cam removed had 2600 km on it.

[EvolutionArmory]

I don’t know what to tell you bud. Without specs it’s just speculation.

None of the MK5 BPY guys think it’s a performance upgrade.

[EvolutionArmory]

https://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198138

[Charles.waite]

Here’s some random info I found googling as well, from a review on USP’s site:


And from this article: http://m.australiancar.reviews/GolfR...DLC_Engine.php

“Long-duration camshafts and revised exhaust camshaft timing.”

[boostin20v]

Charles, thanks for that info. Defiantly more solid, less hearsay than the other forum link.

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[EvolutionArmory]

Yes, actual measurements are definitely useful.

What isn’t very scientific is all of the performance gains he “feels” isn’t backed up by any data that he actually gained anything.

At least with some measurements the discussion moves on from hearsay.

[Audi_Soul_(las)]

I am currently putting both golf r cams in my B7 A4 2.0t fsi. So far, so goodIMG950098.jpg

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[boostin20v]

Did you take any measurements? Are the lobes noticeable different on the whole shaft or just parts?

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[KLX]

Did you take any measurements? Are the lobes noticeable different on the whole shaft or just parts?

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+1

[canadianA4B7]

https://youtu.be/MyiPW-02PU4

If someone can post a comparison start up you can hear a difference. I don’t have a good pre cam install clip

Camshaft comparisons

[Charles.waite]

Well it looks pretty obvious from those pictures just by looking at the how the reflections go on the contours of those lobes. Longer duration (more ball shaped as you said earlier) and higher lift HPFP lobe (more torpedo like).

Any tuning you would do would have to be somewhat custom in order to take advantage of the characteristics of those cams but realistically if you’re running a setup that’s going to take advantage of them you’re probably not going with an OTS tune.

[EvolutionArmory]

Well when a person is wrong he should man up and admit it. It looks like I’m wrong.

It would be great to actually have measurements to know how much extra lift is achieved. Meaning measure the total length and subtract the base circle. That gives you your lift. Then you could compare the 2 a little more precisely.

No matter what the lift difference is, if there even is any, it’s hard to deny that the duration would be longer for sure with the bigger radius on the lobe.

[Audi_Soul_(las)]

Well when a person is wrong he should man up and admit it. It looks like I’m wrong.

It would be great to actually have measurements to know how much extra lift is achieved. Meaning measure the total length and subtract the base circle. That gives you your lift. Then you could compare the 2 a little more precisely.

No matter what the lift difference is, if there even is any, it’s hard to deny that the duration would be longer for sure with the bigger radius on the lobe.

It was difficult to get a good measurement. I was using I digital micrometer but I think it was a cheap one. I bought it a while back. Very small difference between the two. Ecu would most likely correct any difference unless you tune it for them.IMG_20190303_224232439.jpg

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[Audi_Soul_(las)]

Almost done buttoning my car up after the golf R cam swap. Both intake AND exhaust cams. I'm waiting to get my new turbo muffler in so that I can start it and let it run for a while, because the car doesn't like to stay running if the intercooler piping isn't attached all the way IMG_20190324_193716054.jpeg

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[Charles.waite]

Just unplug the MAF and it’ll run just fine with the pipes loose.

[boostin20v]

How do you measure a cam? Mine was delivered yesterday.

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[EvolutionArmory]

How do you measure a cam? Mine was delivered yesterday.

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You measure the top of the lobe to the bottom. That’s your total length. Then you measure the sides. The sides are the base circle. Total length minus the base circle is total lift. Measure both your stock cam and the new intake cam the way I described. Then compare the 2 numbers. The difference is how much more lift the new cam has.

[Charles.waite]

There’s also duration, but that’s really hard to measure accurately by hand.

[bwdysart]

There’s also duration, but that’s really hard to measure accurately by hand.

Is duration like the area of the lobe minus the area of the base circle?


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[Charles.waite]

Sorta? It’s how fat the lobe is going from the base circle to the peak.

[texasboy21]

This is starting to look more and more like a promising development!