Transmission Fluid - To change or Not

[beefski]

My 2005 has 125K miles, from the service history I have, I do not see any tranny service (automatic) tiptronic as being done. Im getting some very CRISP gear shifts 1st to 2nd and to 3rd. Worse when the car is cold and eases when it is warmed up and also how hard I accelerate from a stop. Im still getting used to the feel of the car, how sensitive the gas and break petals are. I have heard that changing fluid in a high mileage tranny could be asking for trouble. Since I don't know if these CRISP shifts are usual or not Im unsure what is the proper course of action. Do a filter/fluid change or not?

Thanks

[MacFady]

All I can say is that I decided to change mine (B6, Tip,) around 180-200K KM's (forget exactly), and the car drove fine for the next 100K until I sold it. I used the Blauparts kit. Just drained, filter, refilled once with what I could add back and left it.

[beefski]

Thanks. I did read where once it is filled the first time, it needs to be cycled through the gears, Rev down and then back up and topped off for it to be completely filled. I just don't know if the CRISP shifting is a sign that I should do the filter / fluid change or not.

[doughboy17]

Thanks. I did read where once it is filled the first time, it needs to be cycled through the gears, Rev down and then back up and topped off for it to be completely filled. I just don't know if the CRISP shifting is a sign that I should do the filter / fluid change or not.

Absolutely, THIS^ If you are going to do it (I did it at 75K miles and currently have 128K), use OEM fluid (yes, it's expensive) and ensure you or the shop have the correct tools and procedure to do it correctly.

[Charles.waite]

I have heard that changing fluid in a high mileage tranny could be asking for trouble.

Thats bullshit. I've heard that a lot and the thinking doesn't pass muster, and is generally only stated by people who don't know wtf they're talking about. I just changed my 2012 Q5's transmission fluid and filter at 65k miles and its shifts so much better now. Do it. Do it now. Hell, you should have done it 50k miles ago. It will NOT cause any problems.

Don't get OEM fluid, get ZF Lifeguard 6 or 8, whichever they recommend for the 6-speed. Its the OEM fill, but around half the price (FCP had the best pricing when I was looking a few months back). Get a new filter as well and drop the pan and replace it. You're probably going to need 7L of fluid if you replace the filter (vs 3-4 if you just drain and refill), but a new filter a fluid will make the transmission work so much more smoothly. I changed the fluid in my Q5 for the same reasons you were stating above, hard shifting in 1-2-3, especially when cold. The new ZF fluid and Meyle brand filter made a very noticeable difference in driveability and smoothness. It also seems like the shifts are faster as well, but that could be placebo.

There is a procedure for filling it, you need to monitor fluid temps and shift through the gears. Its all outlined in a DIY on here.

[Sylvania A4]

Thats bullshit. I've heard that a lot and the thinking doesn't pass muster, and is generally only stated by people who don't know wtf they're talking about. I just changed my 2012 Q5's transmission fluid and filter at 65k miles and its shifts so much better now. Do it. Do it now. Hell, you should have done it 50k miles ago. It will NOT cause any problems.

Don't get OEM fluid, get ZF Lifeguard 6 or 8, whichever they recommend for the 6-speed. Its the OEM fill, but around half the price (FCP had the best pricing when I was looking a few months back). Get a new filter as well and drop the pan and replace it. You're probably going to need 7L of fluid if you replace the filter (vs 3-4 if you just drain and refill), but a new filter a fluid will make the transmission work so much more smoothly. I changed the fluid in my Q5 for the same reasons you were stating above, hard shifting in 1-2-3, especially when cold. The new ZF fluid and Meyle brand filter made a very noticeable difference in driveability and smoothness. It also seems like the shifts are faster as well, but that could be placebo.

There is a procedure for filling it, you need to monitor fluid temps and shift through the gears. Its all outlined in a DIY on here.

Plenty of good advice here. Just to add, I recently did a drain and fill using the ZF8 fluid (from FCP) and replaced all touch points - filter, gasket, drain plug and cap. This was done at 130k miles and I've noticed improved shifting. RPM surging is still there, but that's the torque converter.

[Charles.waite]

To clarify on fluid type, I'm pretty sure ZF Lifeguard 8 is the right stuff for the 6-speed ZF, as I believe it supersedes the Lifeguard6 that they used to specify.

[beefski]

Thanks for the info. The ZF 8 is the correct fluid as per FCP when I checked. Its $25/L, holy $hit. But, its typical for audi, all their fluids are non standard and expensive.
Really dont relish doing this on my back in the driveway though.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...zf-tiptransvc2

[vce1232000]

Got almost 250,000 miles on virgin fluid. & I the out of my car . @ this point of the game Im afraid to even touch the fluid

[aluthman]

I did a fluid and filter change and replaced the mechatronic (valvebody) seal in a tip transmission on an 05.5 B7 and the trans went from never shifting out of third to working like brand new. It had a little surge from the torque converter when cold, but nothing terrible. I was amazed that a trans with 172k could shift so well after that service. I used Vaico ATF 8HP fluid and a Meyle filter.

[DownhillA4]

Change. OEM Fluid. Great improvement.

[MacFady]

Sorry Beefski, in my OP I should have clarified I followed the proper procedure, when I said I filled it and left it I just mean I didn't do a couple of fills and drains in an attempt to replace as much as I could, still would have had a few litres of old fluid in there.

[beefski]

I know there are multiple steps after the initial fill. Good ole Youtube. But just don't see myself on my back in the driveway doing this service. Im guessing $500 at an indie Audi shop. If parts cost me $325, for the difference I think it would be worth it. Will have to price it out as I have a few shop choices.

Thanks again for the advice.

[Sylvania A4]

My shop only charged me 2.5 hours of labor. It may be because I’ve started using them more frequently lately.


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[dalmation53]

I have 178k on mine on original fluid. Not sure if to change.

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[beefski]

Anyone have an opinion on Amsoil transmission fluid as opposed to the $25/L ZF?

[beefski]

Anyone? Opinion on AMSOIL transmission fluid?

[Charles.waite]

It’s not certified for the 6hp ZF trans so I’d be leery using it. I’d go with ZF Lifeguard 8 or Redline D6.

[beefski]

When I go to AMSOIL website, they have multiple listings of transmission fluid for both manual & automatic for the Audi. The ZF is sooo dam expensive. The Redline D6 is alot more reasonable and notes it meets ZF specs... A VERY reputable shop I priced has been using AMSOIL for years without issue.

[Theiceman]

Got almost 250,000 miles on virgin fluid. & I the out of my car . @ this point of the game Im afraid to even touch the fluid

THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID FOR THIS .... I got 400K out of my A6 without ever replacing the fluid once.

this guy is super irritating, but interesting watching

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctpVCWjd8b4&t=269s

[Charles.waite]

I don't know. Fluids don't last forever and are meant to be changed. Its up to every person to decide what makes sense but I can't fathom how new fluid could possibly be bad.

Best case non changing it: It works "fine" for 200k miles
Best case changing it: It works like new for +200k miles.
Worst case changing it: It functions poorly after 80k miles and blows up around 200k miles
Worst case changing it: It is no different than "best case not changing it".

Its not expensive, you'll spend more on oil changes in the same time of one Transmission fluid interval, so IMO you've got nothign to lose. The initial cost might be somewhat high, but spread it over the course of 80k miles or however long you choose for an OCI and it becomes pretty negligible.

You also have to consider your driving habits. High mileage folks tend to drive lots of steady state highway miles. That puts very little wear on the transmission and fluid. City driving is VERY different, lots of shifting, lots of stops and starts and heat cycles. 100k miles on the highway cruising at 70 vs 100k of city miles is a TOTALLY different level of wear and abuse.

[Charles.waite]

Also, the OEM fluid used to be the only option and it was $60/liter. No joke. Lifeguard8 is literally the exact same stuff Audi sells but at like 1/3 the price.

I also found this stuff: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/top...i-moly-lm20032

Certified for the 6-speed ZF and quite cheap. Can’t really go wrong with Luqimoly.

[Charles.waite]

THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID FOR THIS .... I got 400K out of my A6 without ever replacing the fluid once.

this guy is super irritating, but interesting watching

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctpVCWjd8b4&t=269s

That dudes a crackpot though.

[Jay-Bee]

Also, the OEM fluid used to be the only option and it was $60/liter. No joke. Lifeguard8 is literally the exact same stuff Audi sells but at like 1/3 the price.

I also found this stuff: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/top...i-moly-lm20032

Certified for the 6-speed ZF and quite cheap. Can’t really go wrong with Luqimoly.

I sell a lot of this stuff, BMW guys seem to really like it and they use the same ZF trans as us. I got 10 liters in the garage waiting to go in.

[wootwoot]

That dudes a crackpot though.

I think you mean crack head.

[Theiceman]

That dudes a crackpot though.

Absolutely Charles 100%


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[Charles.waite]

Absolutely Charles 100%


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Though I’ll concede, after watching that video I pretty much agree with him.

[gt854t5]

So, I recently had my Transmission serviced at my local dealer for about $850 (after a 20% discount); (receipt says new ZF fluids; filter and a update of software was performed). I was having rought shifts in 1-2nd gear, especially on colder days or if I didnt drive car for a fews days in normal temps, so I decided to flush tranny. I'm at 78xxx miles. Received the car back last week and noticed an improvement in shifts; its still faily cold in NYC.; only once or twice I observed a rough shift. What I HAVE noticed is a surging/slight revving when i'm coming to a stop. I also experience the RPMs dropping kinda low when stopped; and 1 or 2 times the car cut off- WTF. I shifted into P and car restarted right away both times. Any ideas what could be going on? (I alerted dealer to issue and have a appt for 4/8). I scanned the car with my ODBeleven unit & got these codes: 00165 (switch for tranny position P/N; this was stored when dealer had the car) and P27000 (Element "A" Apply Time Range/Performance; happened when I stalled 2nd time). NO check-engine lights came on or any other symptoms. I have only had the car back about 10 days and driven a few hundred miles, so im not sure if its "relearning" my style of driving; I drive in "d" or manual mode interchangeably.
@Sylvania- what are you referring to when you said: "RPM surging is still there, but that's the torque converter"


Thanks for any ideas or suggestion!!

[Charles.waite]

Having the car stall when stopping isn’t a part of the relearning process, haha.

When I did a filter and fluid in the q5 it never had any of those issues. Definitely have the dealer check their work. A fluid change should make it worse.

[Sylvania A4]

So, I recently had my Transmission serviced at my local dealer for about $850 (after a 20% discount); (receipt says new ZF fluids; filter and a update of software was performed). I was having rought shifts in 1-2nd gear, especially on colder days or if I didnt drive car for a fews days in normal temps, so I decided to flush tranny. I'm at 78xxx miles. Received the car back last week and noticed an improvement in shifts; its still faily cold in NYC.; only once or twice I observed a rough shift. What I HAVE noticed is a surging/slight revving when i'm coming to a stop. I also experience the RPMs dropping kinda low when stopped; and 1 or 2 times the car cut off- WTF. I shifted into P and car restarted right away both times. Any ideas what could be going on? (I alerted dealer to issue and have a appt for 4/8). I scanned the car with my ODBeleven unit & got these codes: 00165 (switch for tranny position P/N; this was stored when dealer had the car) and P27000 (Element "A" Apply Time Range/Performance; happened when I stalled 2nd time). NO check-engine lights came on or any other symptoms. I have only had the car back about 10 days and driven a few hundred miles, so im not sure if its "relearning" my style of driving; I drive in "d" or manual mode interchangeably.
@Sylvania- what are you referring to when you said: "RPM surging is still there, but that's the torque converter"


Thanks for any ideas or suggestion!!

When cold and under constant throttle my RPM will oscillate 2-300. It’s a known symptom of the TIP torque converter.


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[esandes]

I did it on my audi and newer other car. I just wish I did the audi sooner. Both run better.

[80sGuy]

So, I recently had my Transmission serviced at my local dealer for about $850 (after a 20% discount); (receipt says new ZF fluids; filter and a update of software was performed). I was having rought shifts in 1-2nd gear, especially on colder days or if I didnt drive car for a fews days in normal temps, so I decided to flush tranny. I'm at 78xxx miles. Received the car back last week and noticed an improvement in shifts; its still faily cold in NYC.; only once or twice I observed a rough shift. What I HAVE noticed is a surging/slight revving when i'm coming to a stop. I also experience the RPMs dropping kinda low when stopped; and 1 or 2 times the car cut off- WTF. I shifted into P and car restarted right away both times. Any ideas what could be going on? (I alerted dealer to issue and have a appt for 4/8). I scanned the car with my ODBeleven unit & got these codes: 00165 (switch for tranny position P/N; this was stored when dealer had the car) and P27000 (Element "A" Apply Time Range/Performance; happened when I stalled 2nd time). NO check-engine lights came on or any other symptoms. I have only had the car back about 10 days and driven a few hundred miles, so im not sure if its "relearning" my style of driving; I drive in "d" or manual mode interchangeably.
@Sylvania- what are you referring to when you said: "RPM surging is still there, but that's the torque converter"


Thanks for any ideas or suggestion!!

Either too less or too much fluid.

[EvolutionArmory]

Agreed. He can be annoying to listen to but usually points you in the right direction.

And let’s talk about “lifetime” fluid. That probably means the lifetime that the first owner owns it and Audi probably does not expect the first owner to take these cars up to 200,000 miles. Can you get super high mileage out of the original fluid? Sure you can. It doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be changed though.

And people who report changing the fluid and having problems afterward probably didn’t use the proper fluid, use a proper filter or go through the proper drain and fill procedure with a scan tool monitoring the fluid temp during fill up. I hated doing transmission fills at the dealer when the fluid temp got too hot. You had to wait until it went back down to finish to get an accurate fill. It’s a pain to do. Fill the pan till fluid leaks out. Start the car and fill the pan some more. Cycle through the gears to spread the fluid around. Pull the fill tube while the engine is running and put the plug in when fluid stops coming out. All within a certain temp range. And it’s a messy job too 🤣🤣

Fresh, dirt free fluid with a fresh dirt free filter can not be more harmful than 200,000 mile fluid with a 200,000 mile filter. It makes zero sense

[Charles.waite]

Messy and smelly job. ATF freaking stinks.

[Theiceman]

Messy and smelly job. ATF freaking stinks.

cant be much worse than the acrid smell of old gear oil .. god i HATE that smell...

oh i found this great vid on the principle torque converters , even talks about stalling as you come to a stop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTfipsejqS0&t=1033s

[oVeRdOsE]

cant be much worse than the acrid smell of old gear oil .. god i HATE that smell...

oh i found this great vid on the principle torque converters , even talks about stalling as you come to a stop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTfipsejqS0&t=1033s

chris fix explaining it right . But be aware this is on paper.

This wont apply on all auto trans, i.e., ZF8 in bmw, oil NEED to be changed. The service kit come with a new oil pan, a integrated filter and integrated magnet.

Also, op can do a simple oil change and avoid a complete flush.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o690DovjDAc

[StylinS-line]

Also, the OEM fluid used to be the only option and it was $60/liter. No joke. Lifeguard8 is literally the exact same stuff Audi sells but at like 1/3 the price.

I also found this stuff: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/top...i-moly-lm20032

Certified for the 6-speed ZF and quite cheap. Can’t really go wrong with Luqimoly.

We can use this in our auto trans ? I was on the fence about doing the service but at that price,I can’t not do it, I wouldn’t need to recode or do anything else ?

[Charles.waite]

Yea that fluid will work.

You don’t HAVE to do anything, but it would be a good idea to clear all the adaptations, which can be done in VCDS. If you don’t it’s not the end of the world, the adaptations will adjust eventually.

[beefski]

We can use this in our auto trans ? I was on the fence about doing the service but at that price,I can’t not do it, I wouldn’t need to recode or do anything else ?

The Red Line D6 fluid mentioned above also meets ZF standards and is about the same price as the Liquidmoly.

[StylinS-line]

Yea that fluid will work.

You don’t HAVE to do anything, but it would be a good idea to clear all the adaptations, which can be done in VCDS. If you don’t it’s not the end of the world, the adaptations will adjust eventually.

Thanks , Just ordered 7 quarts of the moly , a filter ,fill n drain plug, oring , pan gasket from fcp euro, going this route with the fluid everything was a little over 200 , cars 13 and I’m sure never been done , I know the previous/2nd owner did not do it , so I should see an immediate improvement