Potential negative impact from BG EPR cleaner?

[kpriv]

About to change my oil again and was considering doing the BG EPR treatment. I know a number of folks on here use it.

My general bias (not factually supported) is that this stuff probably does not do much. However, if it will not harm anything, there isn’t much to lose by using it in the event it does help. So my question for any skeptics, supporters, or anyone knowledgeable about this type of product — does it actually help? Could it actually have any negative ramifications?

The potential downsides that came to mind were: (1) I can’t guarantee I’ll drain 100% of my oil, so some residual amount will be in there permanently, (2) any harsh chemical impacts such as wear on o-rings, gaskets, etc, (3) broken down “crud” left behind, etc.

Anyhow, curious about people’s thoughts.



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[Audibot]

This something you put in the oil? If so, sounds like Seafoam, which I have not experienced negatives on with the several cars I've used it in. I did the three methods--gas tank, oil, and intake--and all seemed to have some benefits. If you're really worried about getting it out of your oil, I'd change the oil, put in a "cheap" (relatively speaking) oil and run around a few miles, and the change the oil again with the good stuff. Should effectively do what you want to do.

Regarding BG, I feel they make good products. When I had the valves on my B7 A4 cleaned, the shop first manually scraped the valves to get the vast majority of the buildup off. After that, they ran a BG chemical (44K I think) through the intake to wash off the remaining residue on the valves. Seemed to work well, and instantly woke the car up. But without that manual cleaning, idk how much it would have done.

[jflyntrr]

I’ve used it on the past 2-3 oil changes on my car , no issues that I have seen (or felt ) it’s basically an insurance policy to keep my turbos from going out again .... my 2 cents for what it’s worth


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[OlyS6]

No issues thus far, but have oy used it for 3 Oil changes. Probably not nearly as important as the OCI interval. I’ve not heard of a verified downside, but that doesn’t mean there isnt one.


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[gk1]

There’s too many plastic elements in motors these days that I am sure are tested for compatibility with regular motor oil, but I don’t know what kind of testing is done for solvents like this. I’d be too afraid of damaging something like oil pump pickup or timing chain guides just to name a couple. Probably just paranoid...

[Helios Black]

There’s too many plastic elements in motors these days that I am sure are tested for compatibility with regular motor oil, but I don’t know what kind of testing is done for solvents like this. I’d be too afraid of damaging something like oil pump pickup or timing chain guides just to name a couple. Probably just paranoid...

If you use their products they give you a warranty on your vehicle. Can’t see them doing that if it caused damages like you’re afraid of. Definitely paranoid. I’ve used it on two oil changes thus far, no negatives.

[wwhan]

About to change my oil again and was considering doing the BG EPR treatment.....

The potential downsides that came to mind were: (1) I can’t guarantee I’ll drain 100% of my oil, so some residual amount will be in there permanently, (2) any harsh chemical impacts such as wear on o-rings, gaskets, etc, (3) broken down “crud” left behind, etc. ....

In the 4.0T engine oil system, the only thing that will clean the oil particulate is the oil filter (trapping), so that should be changed often enough to remove particulate that could clog the turbo oil supply screen. Oil changes (without the filter change) can only dilute any residue fluid/particluate that would not get trapped by the oil filter.

As for the EPR 109 oil flush, it is unknown if the O-rings, gaskets or other seals might be affected by volatile solvents in the EPR. The instructions say to run for 10 minutes at 1200 RPM, then change the oil and oil filter (do not let it cool down too much). The 4.0T oil filter does not get bypassed unless it is clogged or the engine is running over 4k with high oil pressure. One could run the EPR flush with fresh clean oil and new oil filter, then cut open the filter to see what was picked up (like this).

From BG webpage: https://www.bgprod.com/blog/lab-qa-s...in-the-engine/
"BG EPR is designed to remove deposits from components and suspend them in the oil to be removed during the oil change. If BG EPR® is left in the engine for more than the recommended service time, eventually it will evaporate out and re-deposit the heavier oil fractions within the engine. This is especially true if the oil is allowed to cool and the heavier debris separates out."

Many years ago, I would run Redline gas treatment to help clean the high flow injectors on my 91 & 99 Mustangs. Years later, I tired the same Redline gas treatment on my MB AMG C32, but it caused some hoses to fail in the fuel Evap system, so I do not use gas treatment anymore (last time was 2004).

[kpriv]

All good responses. Thank you all. For now, I’ll probably just stick with my unnecessarily frequent 3k OCI plus filter change.

...and wwhan, I had a 99 cobra back in the glory days. Fun car at the time. But a little funny to think back now how slow that car was relative to what’s on the road today.


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[ericw.]

If you use their products they give you a warranty on your vehicle. Can’t see them doing that if it caused damages like you’re afraid of. Definitely paranoid. I’ve used it on two oil changes thus far, no negatives.

The burden of proof makes the warranty nearly untouchable. Wouldn't rely on that.

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[s4nicetry]

The burden of proof makes the warranty nearly untouchable. Wouldn't rely on that.

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I was thinking the same, good luck getting their warranty to pay out if you do have engine failure.

[kpriv]

Completely agree. The warranty is useless. No way they are paying you $20k if you lose an engine.

I guess the question comes back to whether there is value in an intermittent “deep clean” — at this point, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze to me, but may be sometime as a once every X oil changes.

Doing 2nd oil / filter change since going stage 3 this weekend. At a way too frequent 3k interval, but figure 3x per year isn’t that bad.


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[Sanjman]

There are people who do 5K oil changes and still have had their turbos blown. Proof in the 4.0TT facebook group. It wouldn't hurt doing it in my opinion as long as you're if you change the oil out immediately. If I added the treatment then waited at an oil change service place, I'd make sure they leave the car running to keep the oil warm. I do my oil changes at 5K as well, but really worry too often about a blown turbo. I'm more worried about the potential damage to pistons from broken fragments etc.

I'm going to ask this, and I'm sorry if this has been beaten to death:
If I'm not inspecting the oil screen which seems to be some big work for us amateurs, can I at least inspect the compressor side of the turbo for coolant/oil leaking? I've heard this occurs before the turbo blows anyways if not already blown. How tough is it pulling those hoses off without moving other stuff out of the way?

[OlyS6]

There are people who do 5K oil changes and still have had their turbos blown. Proof in the 4.0TT facebook group. It wouldn't hurt doing it in my opinion as long as you're if you change the oil out immediately. If I added the treatment then waited at an oil change service place, I'd make sure they leave the car running to keep the oil warm. I do my oil changes at 5K as well, but really worry too often about a blown turbo. I'm more worried about the potential damage to pistons from broken fragments etc.

I'm going to ask this, and I'm sorry if this has been beaten to death:
If I'm not inspecting the oil screen which seems to be some big work for us amateurs, can I at least inspect the compressor side of the turbo for coolant/oil leaking? I've heard this occurs before the turbo blows anyways if not already blown. How tough is it pulling those hoses off without moving other stuff out of the way?

Not hard. You remove the 6 T-25 bolts that are holding the throttle body in place. You loosen the hose clamps on the hoses that lead to the throttle body. Unclip electrical connectors to throttle body. Remove throttle body. Remove turbo inlets that are each held in by 2 5mm hex bolts. Make sure turbo impellers/shafts don't have any play. There may be a small amount of oil in the driver's side turbo inlet, which many folks claim is typical due to the PCV valve.

[wwhan]

Some of the unknowns is how the EPR solvents affects the plastic windage tray & the elastomer seals of the bed plate.

From SSP 920223, page Body11 & Body12:

"Engine coolant does not fl ow through the bed plate. However, it does contain oil passages and galleries to transport pressurized engine oil. The bed plate is sealed to the cylinder block and oil pan by liquid sealant and formed elastomer seals. The oil filter module is integrated in the cylinder block."

"Windage Tray
This tray separates the crankshaft assembly from the oil pan. As a result, the crankshaft webs are not immersed directly in the engine oil. This prevents foaming at high engine rpm. To reduce the weight of the engine, the windage tray is made of plastic."

[P_G]

Have used BG triple program (EPR, MOA and 44k) for the last two changes and no issues. The EPR really liquifies the oil so I can’t see much if an staying in the engine.

For me it has removed any lumpiness in cold running and pick up seems a little improved by improved spray pattern, like most doing it as preventative albeit contemplating having my injectors tested, turbos inspected and PCV replaced this year


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[R3Wood]

About to change my oil again and was considering doing the BG EPR treatment. I know a number of folks on here use it.

My general bias (not factually supported) is that this stuff probably does not do much. However, if it will not harm anything, there isn’t much to lose by using it in the event it does help. So my question for any skeptics, supporters, or anyone knowledgeable about this type of product — does it actually help? Could it actually have any negative ramifications?

The potential downsides that came to mind were: (1) I can’t guarantee I’ll drain 100% of my oil, so some residual amount will be in there permanently, (2) any harsh chemical impacts such as wear on o-rings, gaskets, etc, (3) broken down “crud” left behind, etc.

Anyhow, curious about people’s thoughts.

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Hello,

I've used EPR in my '05 A6, my, '03 Jaguar XKR, and my wife's RX330 around every 20,000 miles. Never had any issues with it. The RX330 has 150,000 and my A6 now has 135,000 on it. The Jaguar is low mileage but sits in the garage 8 months out of the year. It seems to work well, the oil does come out very dirty. I have been using it to eliminate deposits. BG recommends not leaving it in the engine.

Regards,
Rich